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  1. #1

    a note from tanks

    Hi, I just want to start out by saying that i love classic, have been playing since release and don't plan on stopping anytime soon. The back to basics mmorpg is awesome. it is not for everyone and that is a good thing. that being said...

    I am a tank. I have two at 60 now (druid/warrior) and spend most of my time running instances, attaining by pre-raid bis and helping others do the same.
    there are a few things i really wish that the majority of players would realize or know, from a tanks perspective.

    -tanks require hitting targets to build aggro. a running target is not truly aggroed, or is in such a small amount that any damage from another source will pull that mob.
    -tanks build aggro at 1/5 the rate as retail. they boosted it during wrath. the amount it takes to gain aggro off a pulled mob is significantly higher as well.
    -hitting a target the same time as the tank will almost always get adds pulled to you.
    -continuing to hit mobs you have aggroed, makes pulling them off you exponentially more difficult.
    -no one seems to know that every class has an aggro dump. i would speculate less then 10% of dps actually use them.
    -single target dps is invaluable in dungeons. focusing specific targets in proper order makes tanking, healing and dpsing much easier and faster. AoE is great, but is far more siutational than people realize or play.

    I love this game. but, my server as well as a few others i have read about have a tank population issue. these are most of the reasons why there is a tank drought. if you wish to improve it, just be mindful and play the way the designers intended 15 years ago and not how they intend for retail to be played today.

    thanks/

    excelsior!

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral khazmodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djaye View Post
    Hi, I just want to start out by saying that i love classic, have been playing since release and don't plan on stopping anytime soon. The back to basics mmorpg is awesome. it is not for everyone and that is a good thing. that being said...

    I am a tank. I have two at 60 now (druid/warrior) and spend most of my time running instances, attaining by pre-raid bis and helping others do the same.
    there are a few things i really wish that the majority of players would realize or know, from a tanks perspective.

    -tanks require hitting targets to build aggro. a running target is not truly aggroed, or is in such a small amount that any damage from another source will pull that mob.
    -tanks build aggro at 1/5 the rate as retail. they boosted it during wrath. the amount it takes to gain aggro off a pulled mob is significantly higher as well.
    -hitting a target the same time as the tank will almost always get adds pulled to you.
    -continuing to hit mobs you have aggroed, makes pulling them off you exponentially more difficult.
    -no one seems to know that every class has an aggro dump. i would speculate less then 10% of dps actually use them.
    -single target dps is invaluable in dungeons. focusing specific targets in proper order makes tanking, healing and dpsing much easier and faster. AoE is great, but is far more siutational than people realize or play.

    I love this game. but, my server as well as a few others i have read about have a tank population issue. these are most of the reasons why there is a tank drought. if you wish to improve it, just be mindful and play the way the designers intended 15 years ago and not how they intend for retail to be played today.

    thanks/

    excelsior!
    You are right...but...the people that don't understand these things by now don't care to understand. As for the drought of tanks; most people just don't want the pressure of leadership expected of tanks and while Classic is more forgiving to tanks because of a better community the number of tanks will never be enough because of the lack of viable tank specs in Classic.

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    You're dealing with Wrath babies and later who never learned about threat management or any other what to play DPS aside from going balls to the wall on damage. In combat control (sheep, Kidney Shot...)? They dont get it. Threat dumps? Likewise.


    It's not really their fault, it's the way the last 11+years of the game has trained them.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You're dealing with Wrath babies and later who never learned about threat management or any other what to play DPS aside from going balls to the wall on damage. In combat control (sheep, Kidney Shot...)? They dont get it. Threat dumps? Likewise.


    It's not really their fault, it's the way the last 11+years of the game has trained them.
    So you agree that retailers are holding the numbers in Classic up. That's good to get an admission from a veteran.

    As to the op, threat management is your job. You decide skull and you decide cc. If it's not done to your standard then kick. A dps will come along pretty quick. You tell them what they did wrong and then remove. That's how people learn. If they going to be an asshole over it then just kick them. If your not marking and assigning cc then that's on you.

    To the dps. Just be cool. Give it a couple of secs. If you get aggro, move to the tank. If you're assigned cc, do it. Kill the skull. Dont be fucking bad. No one gives a shit about how good your dps is. Save that for raids.

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    So you agree that retailers are holding the numbers in Classic up. That's good to get an admission from a veteran.
    Oh grow up. Some people, like me, moved from retail to classic. Some came back. Some are new. It DOESNT FUCKING MATTER and the whining about retail vs classic is tiresome.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Robozerim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djaye View Post
    -no one seems to know that every class has an aggro dump. i would speculate less then 10% of dps actually use them.
    Ha! Warlocks say hi. I would love to have an aggro dump.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Robozerim View Post
    Ha! Warlocks say hi. I would love to have an aggro dump.
    We used to call it dying and coming back with SS.

  8. #8
    Find a decent healer and accelerate the pace; make the DPS work to keep up with you, keep ahead of them and threat is almost never an issue.

    Don't spend any GCDs/rage on casters or non-elite mobs. When the trash is nearly dead start pooling rage for the next pull.

    Stun/slow the last few targets and pull the next pack. Pull while caster DPS are drinking.

  9. #9
    I remember we used to have to wait for 2 sunders before we start attacking. And the targets were always marked so we know which to hit. AoE was basically frowned upon because each pull required CC and well, even after just 1 tick of blizzard, the mobs would be running all over the place.

    Patience is a virtue that's hard to come by in WoW and thus a tank's job in classic is extra hard.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    You are right...but...the people that don't understand these things by now don't care to understand. As for the drought of tanks; most people just don't want the pressure of leadership expected of tanks and while Classic is more forgiving to tanks because of a better community the number of tanks will never be enough because of the lack of viable tank specs in Classic.
    # of viable tank specs never fixed a thing as they were added in retail. Gave more people opportunities to decline to do it, maybe.

    There will never be enough people who want to do it, and people being shitty to those who do isn't wonderful.
    @thwart <- don't click this and learn his shame
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  11. #11
    They still do it in retail. They want you to pull big so they can dps big but they don't give you just a few seconds to round everything up before they start hammering. I saw that in classic with the "you don't even need tanks till end game" spam.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Warheart View Post
    Find a decent healer and accelerate the pace; make the DPS work to keep up with you, keep ahead of them and threat is almost never an issue.

    Don't spend any GCDs/rage on casters or non-elite mobs. When the trash is nearly dead start pooling rage for the next pull.

    Stun/slow the last few targets and pull the next pack. Pull while caster DPS are drinking.
    the problem is warriors/rogues and other druids who feed off the the faster pace with their play style as well. i have less issues with casters than melee as far as waiting to attack as they have to drink regularly, while melee doesnt. they crowd around you while your trying to los, hence not understanding the whole point of the mechanic.

    i cant even begin to tell you how many hunter pets get to targets before i do...

  13. #13
    Simple solution : don't tank for pugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  14. #14
    Most of the tanks (90% or better) I've had have not needed me (or any other group mate) to CC anything. It's the tanks that do call for CC that always feel out of place. Oh, and the oddball Hunters that like to trap random mobs...they always make things awkward too.

    /shrug

    And not every class has an aggro dump.

    Note to tanks: mark a kill priority target with {skull}.

    Another note to tanks: There are times when AoE is the smartest choice (undead packs in Strat Live). Learn how to Sunder/build aggro on the Elite mobs and not the non-elites that die quickly. Pro tanks will pull 2 or more of such packs and Challenging Shout and/or use Shield Wall when appropriate.

    Last (hopefully) note to tanks: please learn what LOS is and how it benefits you.

    From a Mage's perspective.
    Last edited by Anastacy; 2019-11-19 at 04:27 AM.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Twoddle's Avatar
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    As a newbie tank leveling an alt, I can confirm everything you say is true.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You're dealing with Wrath babies and later who never learned about threat management or any other what to play DPS aside from going balls to the wall on damage. In combat control (sheep, Kidney Shot...)? They dont get it. Threat dumps? Likewise.


    It's not really their fault, it's the way the last 11+years of the game has trained them.
    Dumb people didn't learn this shit during vanilla or tbc either.

    Theres a reason hunters have been called huntards since the beginning

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Robozerim View Post
    Ha! Warlocks say hi. I would love to have an aggro dump.
    You can pull aggro die and use SS. Its easy
    Last edited by vecnuh; 2019-11-19 at 05:22 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You're dealing with Wrath babies and later who never learned about threat management or any other what to play DPS aside from going balls to the wall on damage. In combat control (sheep, Kidney Shot...)? They dont get it. Threat dumps? Likewise.


    It's not really their fault, it's the way the last 11+years of the game has trained them.
    People did this during vanilla as well. It isn't Wrath babies it is just players. You can find threads about this from Vanilla to BC. A lot of dps have always done threat wrong, and healers have healed way sooner than they needed to and caused aggro issue. People used to run from the tanks constantly and keep attacking. This isn't a retail playing classic thing. It is a people don't give a shit and are going to be lazy players or bad players as often as there will be good players.

    Tanks have to take charge and lay this shit out at the start of the run. The disadvantage to being the gear funnel is you have to control your groups. Tank is essentially the leader x10 in Vanilla/Classic. Lead or play a dps...not my rules, but it'll make your life easier as a tank.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer SinR's Avatar
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    What's my Shaman's Threat Dump?

    What about my Fury Warrior I've been quietly working on what's his threat dump?

    And before you say "stop attacking", No
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
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    Let me know when Transfers are on Beta

  20. #20
    PuGs treat their tank (and healer) like a shitty NPC!
    PuG DPS (except mages) have a hard time finding groups and are therefore treated like expendable trash!
    Tanking PuG dungeons is almost never fun!

    More news at 11!

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