The Failure Warmode is going into Shadowlands?

[The Butt Witch]

Is this another whine about being unable to gank lowbies and casuals left and right because very few people turn on warmode?

[Accendor]

Of course it will stay. Don't think they will separate PVP and PVE realms again. But I hope it receives changes. Like lots of layering, to always make sure there's an equal amount of people in a zone from both factions. So no point making a gank squad, except you might find an another squad to fight.

Actually the change should be the exact opposite: remove as much layers as possible, so that your faction can organize counter ganks when an enemy death squad is on its way again. This is not a single player game. If you have WM enabled and you are tired of geting killed 5on1 either turn it off or (better solution) team up with people and fight back.

[kamuimac]

I call it a failure because only 1 faction were here for world pvp.

Blizzard did everything they could to turn alliance into pvp and they failed.

Alliance still in WM off and horde still with 10% since day one.

nah allience utilizes the20-30% bufff for leveling

and then turn it off when hitting 120

[Accendor]

At the end of the day, it doesn't really have to do with imbalance(also it wasn't the "whole expansion"). Ultimately it has to do with Blizzard not having threatening NPCs guarding flight path locations. So you end up with shit that's just obnoxious like whole groups just camping a flight path and being assholes for no reason, this was heavily a Horde thing at the start of the expansion, which is why no Alliance players participated, now they put the incentive to deal with the imbalance and ultimately that's fine because now there's a greater reward for having to deal with scumbags.

You are right, it was not the whole expansion, because the scaling buff was only introduced in 8.1 (i think). So let me correct that to: "since its able to scale"
However, the problem with unbalanced faction participation existed already before, which was the reason for the buff to be implemented in the first place.

[The Butt Witch]

nah allience utilizes the20-30% bufff for leveling

and then turn it off when hitting 120

True that. Warmode is a joke unless you play a stealth spec, or you turn it on occasionally specifically to do wpvp.

[Lei]

My only problem with warmode is segregation in an game where the playerbase is shrinking, lack of fluidness, and it being an unnatural standalone subsystem. PVE being segregated from pvp means no pve players activating PvP when the enemy faction attacks their city, or in the world.

[Sencha]

Warmode was indeed a failure.

They really don't know how to use the open world in fun and engaging activities.

[Bryci]

I'm playing alliance and I'm using WM for a lot of different things. Mostly to get conq with lower geared alts from assaults/naz battle weekly quests like 10-25 kills even supply drops. It is alright because for these activities you will find enough people but just to be in WM permanently it is not a good idea. Honestly the 20-30% boost to resource/gold is nothing. If you want big gold you have to look elsewhere because that 20% isn't going to help you with anything. It is just to baiting people into using WM but once they are farmed they will just opt out. Faction imbalance needs to be fixed by not being horde biased and buff alliance racials for good. It will not happen overnight as the game being horde sided happened over several expansions.

People say racials aren't unbalanced that much now but you don't understand. For like 4-5 expansions they were and it allowed players to build up horde community while leaving alliance in the dirt. Sad to say but horde clearly has better player base and it is a known fact (and most of those people are originated from alliance they just swapped because it had a better playerbase built up and was easier to blend in and find people for dungeons and raids).

Even nazjatar bases are so unbalanced. Just look at newhome. It has the cave which is a big advantage strategically also go there as an alliance player pull the first 2 mobs and you will be raided by 20 big giant npcs our of nowhere. Go to mezzamere as a horde and you will see there are barely any npcs in the whole camp????

How could they think that 1% stats from racials for any alliance races could compete with stuffs like troll racial or tauren stamina or anything? They still don't understand how good it is when you line up with cds trinkets/potion etc while the 1% bonus on entire fight helps you NOTHING. All these 1% bullshit stats on alliance side needs to be like 5% to be even remotely close to being relevant or even more. No wonder alliance players keep quitting because how shit their situation is.

The game is extremely unbalanced and needs immediate attention. You can't force everyone into playing horde because many people including me just not into horde stuffs. I hate horde architecture their cities their look etc I will simply not play the game if i have no other choice.

[Zyky]

You are right, it was not the whole expansion, because the scaling buff was only introduced in 8.1 (i think). So let me correct that to: "since its able to scale"
However, the problem with unbalanced faction participation existed already before, which was the reason for the buff to be implemented in the first place.

It would have never had to happen in the first place if there was just no warmode reward. Players said it was a bad idea during beta.

I also feel like Warmode wouldn't be considered as bad though if the players weren't scumbags about it. Groups camping flight paths or high frequency quest locations are honestly the largest problem with world PvP. It's even happening in Classic now because there are several flight paths that you can not be attacked by guards at. The reality is, world PvP has always had this problem, now its just adds incentives to the faction that has a disadvantage, which is the only way world PvP can go when the players are scumbags. At what point is the risk worth the reward, apparently for Alliance it's double the Horde reward, which is honestly fine.

[Cyanu]

Do we know something about warmode in Shadowlands?

Will the alliance recieve +30% bonus during the whole expansion again?

You didn't like it sir? we are terribly sorry we had no idea, it will be removed immediately, yours sincerely Blizzard

why exactly do you care about how fast the other faction i assume levels it's alts?... besides it does serve a purpose, it gives you something to kill in case you turned war mode because you wanted to pvp

world PvP has been a shitshow of ganking squads jumping on lone players and stealthers taking on people already in combat since day 1, WPvP de facto sucks by any meaningful metric no matter what they do, war mode has been the most decent itteration of it

[Tharkkun]

It would have never had to happen in the first place if there was just no warmode reward. Players said it was a bad idea during beta.

I also feel like Warmode wouldn't be considered as bad though if the players weren't scumbags about it. Groups camping flight paths or high frequency quest locations are honestly the largest problem with world PvP. It's even happening in Classic now because there are several flight paths that you can not be attacked by guards at. The reality is, world PvP has always had this problem, now its just adds incentives to the faction that has a disadvantage, which is the only way world PvP can go when the players are scumbags. At what point is the risk worth the reward, apparently for Alliance it's double the Horde reward, which is honestly fine.

This happened before Warmode existed. It happens in every game honestly. Players will always find the path of least resistance when it comes to griefing or grinding. If they can hide in a tree or gank from the flightmaster with little worry about dying then they will do so.

[GreenJesus]

For all the imbalance at times, I still love it to death. The PvP talents and just added sense of actual risk and danger while out in the world that I just don't get anymore otherwise, I haven't turned it off all expansion.

A lot of those PVP talents on classes used to be baseline skills so to me it's still a failure.

[Jujudrood]

Let's be real, people.
World PVP is, and has been, an abject disaster of a shitshow since Vanilla.
Yes. Since Vanilla.
It was never balanced, it was wholly about ganking/grouping up on people, and never was it a means of "fair play".

War Mode didn't "ruin world PVP", it simply allowed those who cba to be griefed in their (maybe limited) playtime to turn off PVP and just play the game.
That's all it did.
Sure, the bonuses they tacked on to help goad people into using it are dumb, and those can go away for all I care.
But let's not act like world PVP was the greatest thing since sliced bread pre-War Mode.
If anything, it gives people a chance to turn off a douchebaggery that comes with world PVP so they can just, you know, play the game.

"But it's world of WARcraft!"
No, it's world of gankcraft because most of the people who spend time camping only do it in groups or engage when they outnumber the other side.

Want it to be about war? Make it a free for all, everyone for themselves, no groups, just friendly fire and death all around.
Then it would be true "war" because if your friend decides to get in your AOE, they can take some damage from it, too.

[Clash the DK]

Well, as a system it's absolutly fine. But it has some serious flaws:
1) "The groupfinder issue" or "summoning stone issue". It's REALLY annoying when your group is full and you want to port the last slackers to the dungeon but, o well, you can't because you are in WM and the other groupmember who flew to the dungeon is not. Similar problem with raidgroups. Maybe put all members of the group be in the mode of the groupleader when they enter the group. Or mark groups in the groupfinder as WM/non WM
2) The fact, that you get higher PvE rewards if you enter WM. That's the elephant in the room: In WM you are not rewarded for doing PvP. Heck, you are even encouraged not to do PvP. Most people with WM on are not interested in PvP at all and just want higher rewards. In general it's more efficient to mind your own business and do your worldquests than to engange in a fight.There could be simple fixes:
Remove the flat 10-30% buff you get on gold/rep/azerite.
Reward players for killing other players with gold/rep/azerite. Think PvP expeditions, just in the open world. You get a stacking buff the longer you are active in WM (killing other players, finishing quests, etc..) and a player killing you gets a reward based on your buff. That way camping is discouraged, because you won't get rewards for killing someone over and over. Just one example you can take.

WM should be for PvP and not a toggle for higher PvE rewards.

I believe this to be a good idea for all the reasons stated.

Warmode, Faction Assaults, and marked Assassins have all been the highlights of BfA for me personally. Alternative ways to gain Conquest while being active in the open world has been a huge boon to the game.

[AcidicSyn]

Well, as a system it's absolutly fine. But it has some serious flaws:
1) "The groupfinder issue" or "summoning stone issue". It's REALLY annoying when your group is full and you want to port the last slackers to the dungeon but, o well, you can't because you are in WM and the other groupmember who flew to the dungeon is not. Similar problem with raidgroups. Maybe put all members of the group be in the mode of the groupleader when they enter the group. Or mark groups in the groupfinder as WM/non WM
2) The fact, that you get higher PvE rewards if you enter WM. That's the elephant in the room: In WM you are not rewarded for doing PvP. Heck, you are even encouraged not to do PvP. Most people with WM on are not interested in PvP at all and just want higher rewards. In general it's more efficient to mind your own business and do your worldquests than to engange in a fight.There could be simple fixes:
Remove the flat 10-30% buff you get on gold/rep/azerite.
Reward players for killing other players with gold/rep/azerite. Think PvP expeditions, just in the open world. You get a stacking buff the longer you are active in WM (killing other players, finishing quests, etc..) and a player killing you gets a reward based on your buff. That way camping is discouraged, because you won't get rewards for killing someone over and over. Just one example you can take.

WM should be for PvP and not a toggle for higher PvE rewards.

This.

Love warmode, but the rewards should either be PVP related; or rewards should come from PvPing not completing PvE content with your PvP flag on. There should be little to zero incentive for someone who can't stand PvP to turn War mode on.

I would even take a page out of old AV. Make players lootable. When you look a player you collect some arbitrary stackable items that you can then turn into a PvP vendor for some kind of PvP currency to allow progression toward a piece of PvP gear. Use the same kind of scaling idea @LordVargK here suggests to discourage camping players to farm these items too. I'd feel a lot better if WM allowed me to collect a big bag of gnome spines and elf ears to turn in for X% toward a piece of pvp-specific gear than I do with a bit of extra Anima or Gold.

[Osmeric]

The sign that Warmode is flawed is that they had to jack up the rewards past reasonable levels to get people to do it.

They will not remove WM explicitly, but if they greatly scale back the reward they will have de facto removed it.

[Accendor]

It would have never had to happen in the first place if there was just no warmode reward. Players said it was a bad idea during beta.

I also feel like Warmode wouldn't be considered as bad though if the players weren't scumbags about it. Groups camping flight paths or high frequency quest locations are honestly the largest problem with world PvP. It's even happening in Classic now because there are several flight paths that you can not be attacked by guards at. The reality is, world PvP has always had this problem, now its just adds incentives to the faction that has a disadvantage, which is the only way world PvP can go when the players are scumbags. At what point is the risk worth the reward, apparently for Alliance it's double the Horde reward, which is honestly fine.

Ok, so here our opinions differ a lot, because:

1. The problem would still exist even if there was no warmode reward, because the horde would still drastically outnumber the alliance but the overall participation would be waaaay lower (why bother with PVP if there is no reward?) I know YOU personally do not agree with this, many other people however do, and those people will not enable warmode and this does negatively affect the playing experience of players who do.

2. You describe flight path camping and stuff like this as a problem that needs to be solved, but it really is not a problem. It even is the opposite: It annoys players so much, that they actually band together and organize counterganks to crush and "camp the campers". That is literally one of the best ways to start of group PVP fights in the open world. Yes, I understand it is VERY annoying to get killed right as you dismount on a flight path, but it is SUPPOSED to be annoying, so you feel forced to do something about it. Again, I am not defending campers, it sucks, but the RESULT from it is something good (if you like to PVP).

[IlikeDemonHunters]

My only hope with WM is that it becomes a weekly toggle. My experience is getting over run by huge raids of Ally on reset, they get their kills (the 25 and 10 quests) and then disappear for the week. Make it be on or off for the week, you chose but are locked into it.

[Battlebeard]

I truly hope Warmode stays, cause I HATED playing on PvP realms but migrating was not an option, so to turn off world pvp without server change is fantastic!

But I hope they also remove any and all bonuses for having it turned on. Let those who enjoy pvp use that mode, but don't punish us world pvp haters for not using it.

[Akibaboy]

Do we know something about warmode in Shadowlands?

Will the alliance recieve +30% bonus during the whole expansion again?

Well they could always go back to a more "Classic" design for PvP, where there was no faction imbalance whatsoever. /s

Face it, in modern WoW where a large percentage of the playerbase cannot even entertain the thought of playing the game for the aspect of fun, and need to min/max and quantify everything down to the most efficient drop - the community has decided that bandwagoning to the "PvP faction" in their pursuit of dominance is the preferred route. Thus in retail or Classic, you have one faction grossly outnumbering the other. Whether it's a game from 15 years ago or from today... the result of our freely made decisions stands.

That said, in modern WoW you generally don't get farm camped as an Alliance and in my experience of being an War Mode always on Alliance player, I find that generally the amount of players present from both factions is pretty balanced. Showing up to the quests of a CoA or Tort emissary I usually find an equal number of people duking it out and am happy to join in the fray.