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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    So u are saying those who torch people alive shouldn't get arrested? Clearly violence in hk is out of control n its up to china, being their territory, to put out the fire...

    Look at these brave peaceful protesters beating a girl with metal rods...


    HK has proven to be incompetent in handling this crisis, it wouldn't even be up to Beijing if HK got its shit together...this state of anarchy cannot be tolerated.

    HK cannot blame anyone but themselves!
    Those are grave allegations. If they are true...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    CGTN (China Global Television Network), formerly known as CCTV-9 and CCTV News, is a Chinese international English-language news channel of the state-owned China Global Television Network group, which is part of Beijing-based China Central Television (CCTV) and under the control of the Publicity Department of the Communist Party of China.
    ... nevermind.

    These offenses, even if true, belong to the courts. But that is where the issue began: Beijing meddling in the Hong Kong judicial system. Courts are traditionally the last resort against overbearing governments in democracies. When the last support is taken away or even threatened, people tend to become desparate.
    Last edited by Flarelaine; 2019-11-22 at 02:43 PM.

  2. #22
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    China needs to deploy its forces n end this 2 system bs, no other state has to abide by 2 systems, its only a bs agreement they had to sign with colonialist uk, it has no merit n should be abandoned.

    Besides hk got nothing on cities like Shanghai, hk doesn't deserve special status for any reason.
    Setting aside the complete moral and legal bankruptcy of your statement, it is also factually inaccurate - the Joint Declaration is both a binding treaty and currently in force (even if the PRC government is violating it), and Hong Kong's status is hardly unique. Other states with special territories without full sovereignty, in addition to China (off the top of my head) include: Great Britain, France, the United States of America, Denmark, Norway, and New Zealand; they haven't always handled interactions with their various dependencies perfectly, but I can't think of another post-WWII state that's handled such responsibilities as disgracefully as the PRC is dealing with Hong Kong right now (the closest parallel (again, off the top of my head) would be ongoing treatment of the Sioux nation, including the Dakota Pipeline protests, but even that falls far, far short of what's been happening in HK in recent months, in terms of both state lawbreaking and state violence).
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Those are grave allegations. If they are true...



    ... nevermind.

    These offenses, even if true, belong to the courts. But that is where the issue began: Beijing meddling in the Hong Kong judicial system. Courts are traditionally the last resort against overbearing governments in democracies. When the last support is taken away or even threatened, people tend to become desparate.
    Beijing, capital of China, is "meddling" with their own country?

    How about you get of OTHER countries like Syria?

    HK has no legal right to act like its own country, it isn't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Setting aside the complete moral and legal bankruptcy of your statement, it is also factually inaccurate - the Joint Declaration is both a binding treaty and currently in force (even if the PRC government is violating it), and Hong Kong's status is hardly unique. Other states with special territories without full sovereignty, in addition to China (off the top of my head) include: Great Britain, France, the United States of America, Denmark, Norway, and New Zealand; they haven't always handled interactions with their various dependencies perfectly, but I can't think of another post-WWII state that's handled such responsibilities as disgracefully as the PRC is dealing with Hong Kong right now (the closest parallel (again, off the top of my head) would be ongoing treatment of the Sioux nation, including the Dakota Pipeline protests, but even that falls far, far short of what's been happening in HK in recent months, in terms of both state lawbreaking and state violence).
    Nope, that's not how things work.

    Britain stole hk from china, it, the criminal thief has no right to set conditions anymore than u stealing my wallet n then try to claim u can bind me to what I have to do with my wallet should it be returned to me.
    Now you could argue in court that I don't do as you wish with MY WALLET, guess what happens next? Court has you arrested for thieving n dismisses any demands u had on my property.

    Britain, only due to possession of hk was able to bully conditions it had no legal right to impose for the release of territory it STOLE.

    Just like any agreement done under duress is not legally binding.

    No agreement is binding to colonialist thieves.

    China, the rightful owner, is under no obligation to cater to thieves what it should do with its own possesions.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Beijing, capital of China, is "meddling" with their own country?

    How about you get of OTHER countries like Syria?

    HK has no legal right to act like its own country, it isn't.
    Hong Kong has every right to an independent legal system. Beijing acknowledged that right when the United Kingdom relinquished their sovereignty over the former colony.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Just like any agreement done under duress is not legally binding.

    No agreement is binding to colonialist thieves.

    China, the rightful owner, is under no obligation to cater to thieves what it should do with its own possesions.
    Would you apply your own logic to the Amur Basin that Russia annexed in the 1858 Treaty of Aigun and the 1860 Treaty of Beijing? That land used to belong to China before that, you see. Those acqusitions are even fresher than Hong Kong's conquest by the UK.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Hong Kong has every right to an independent legal system. Beijing acknowledged that right when the United Kingdom relinquished their sovereignty over the former colony.
    Hong Kong has no more legal right to own system than any other city-region in China has, no special status is given to a place cuz it's stolen. You can't say HK was represented legally by its colonial master. That's just absurd. Any special treaty is only signed to unlock british colonial grip, that doesn't mean China wanted those conditions.

    Besides, this treaty, you know 2 systems are a joke? Cuz it says that in 2042 the treaty is finalized as one-system beijing rule, not two. This is admitting the theft n eventual loss of influence by the colonial thief.
    So, all u going on about "independent legal system" by pointing to a treaty that says it will end up as not being that in the end..

    Would you apply your own logic to the Amur Basin that Russia annexed in the 1858 Treaty of Aigun and the 1860 Treaty of Beijing? That land used to belong to China before that, you see. Those acqusitions are even fresher than Hong Kong's conquest by the UK.
    Amur doesn't belong to China, the ethnic group there, the Manchus are not ethnic Han Chinese in any way, they are Mongol tribe that ruled China for a bit.
    Amur isn't populated by Han Chinese, whose opinions I couldn't care less about especially after they committed genocide on the Manchu n now claim the land as theirs which is just laughable..The region is populated mostly by ethnic Russians. Beijing has no more right to it than Russia has to Alaska today.

    And don't start with Japan n Kuril Islands, Russia took the northern islands that were unpopulated at the time n claimed by nobody, Japan similarly expanded at the same time n took the Southern ones. Imperial Japan then stole northern islands which they NEVER have had, from Russia, took Vladivostok (!), Korea, China, etc.
    Soviet Union later tried to make peace treaty with Japan after ww2 for both countries to go back to their original possessed islands, Japan refused cuz it was firmly under US control that wanted northern islands as well to cut off USSR from the Pacific...
    So, the time has long passed, Kurils is populated by Russians n for sucking up to USA, Japan ends up with nothing...that's what you get for not standing up for your own interest n ask permission from others...Russia isn't about to de-populate Kurils for the sake of Japan, a country that still hasn't apologized for its ww2 crimes n feels no shame n still is unwilling to sign end of ww2 treaty (!), basically Japan hasn't aknowledged end of ww2 with Russia...they are like that lone Japanese soldier alone on his island thinking the war is still going on...well, Japan may one day wake the fuck up n start behaving like they are living in the present n make their own decisions...but I bet it's not anytime soon...

    Anyways, Amur is populated by Russians, HK was some small fishing village that grew into a huge city economic zone n that was done with the influx of ethnic han chinese..that makes it very different cases that can't just be compared like you do..

  6. #26
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Interesting how the pro Chinese people are the same people calling liberal commies yet they are here actively backing an ACTUAL COMMUNIST government to stomp over capitalistic Hong Kong.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Hong Kong has no more legal right to own system than any other city-region in China has, no special status is given to a place cuz it's stolen. You can't say HK was represented legally by its colonial master. That's just absurd. Any special treaty is only signed to unlock british colonial grip, that doesn't mean China wanted those conditions.

    Besides, this treaty, you know 2 systems are a joke? Cuz it says that in 2042 the treaty is finalized as one-system beijing rule, not two. This is admitting the theft n eventual loss of influence by the colonial thief.
    So, all u going on about "independent legal system" by pointing to a treaty that says it will end up as not being that in the end..



    Amur doesn't belong to China, the ethnic group there, the Manchus are not ethnic Han Chinese in any way, they are Mongol tribe that ruled China for a bit.
    Amur isn't populated by Han Chinese, whose opinions I couldn't care less about especially after they committed genocide on the Manchu n now claim the land as theirs which is just laughable..The region is populated mostly by ethnic Russians. Beijing has no more right to it than Russia has to Alaska today.

    And don't start with Japan n Kuril Islands, Russia took the northern islands that were unpopulated at the time n claimed by nobody, Japan similarly expanded at the same time n took the Southern ones. Imperial Japan then stole northern islands which they NEVER have had, from Russia, took Vladivostok (!), Korea, China, etc.
    Soviet Union later tried to make peace treaty with Japan after ww2 for both countries to go back to their original possessed islands, Japan refused cuz it was firmly under US control that wanted northern islands as well to cut off USSR from the Pacific...
    So, the time has long passed, Kurils is populated by Russians n for sucking up to USA, Japan ends up with nothing...that's what you get for not standing up for your own interest n ask permission from others...Russia isn't about to de-populate Kurils for the sake of Japan, a country that still hasn't apologized for its ww2 crimes n feels no shame n still is unwilling to sign end of ww2 treaty (!), basically Japan hasn't aknowledged end of ww2 with Russia...they are like that lone Japanese soldier alone on his island thinking the war is still going on...well, Japan may one day wake the fuck up n start behaving like they are living in the present n make their own decisions...but I bet it's not anytime soon...

    Anyways, Amur is populated by Russians, HK was some small fishing village that grew into a huge city economic zone n that was done with the influx of ethnic han chinese..that makes it very different cases that can't just be compared like you do..
    Thank you for your frank admission that the very rules you advocate for do not apply to Russia.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Interesting how the pro Chinese people are the same people calling liberal commies yet they are here actively backing an ACTUAL COMMUNIST government to stomp over capitalistic Hong Kong.
    Beijing & Hong Kong are both capitalist.

    Beijing is Peoples Capitalist non-democratic
    Hong Kong is Liberal Capitalist in thrall to West

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Thank you for your frank admission that the very rules you advocate for do not apply to Russia.
    Did you even read what I wrote? China = Han Chinese, have never been the population of Amur, they can't claim land they never lived in, they can't claim the land of the Manchu simply cuz Manchu conquered China anymore than Russia can claim everything the Golden Horde conquered just because Golden Horde conquered Russia.

    Do you understand now? Otherwise Russia could claim Mongolia belongs to Russia simply because of the Golden Horde...I tried to give you a clue that Russia has no claim to Alaska TODAY cuz its populated by Americans.

    Checking wikipedia now,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Alaska
    The largest ancestry groups (which the Census defines as not including racial terms) in the state are:[8]

    18.3% German
    11.0% Irish
    8.5% English
    6.5% Norwegian
    4.4% Filipino
    3.8% French
    3.7% Native American
    3.3% Italian
    3.0% Mexican
    2.9% Scottish
    2.7% Polish
    2.5% Swedish
    1.9% Dutch
    1.4% Russian
    I see now, that you are Hungarian, I suppose you don't think all territories that Attila had now belongs to Hungary? Same reason, China cannot claim Amur...
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2019-11-22 at 04:48 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Beijing & Hong Kong are both capitalist.

    Beijing is Peoples Capitalist non-democratic
    Hong Kong is Liberal Capitalist in thrall to West

    - - - Updated - - -



    Did you even read what I wrote? China = Han Chinese, have never been the population of Amur, they can't claim land they never lived in, they can't claim the land of the Manchu simply cuz Manchu conquered China anymore than Russia can claim everything the Golden Horde conquered just because Golden Horde conquered Russia.

    Do you understand now? Otherwise Russia could claim Mongolia belongs to Russia simply because of the Golden Horde...I tried to give you a clue that Russia has no claim to Alaska TODAY cuz its populated by Americans.
    Could you explain what "people's capitalist" means? Also isnt the ruling party of Beijing naming themselves communist?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Could you explain what "people's capitalist" means? Also isnt the ruling party of Beijing naming themselves communist?
    ex-socialist one-party system representing the whole country (whether they like or not..) morphing into capitalism using same vehicle but on a different road..

    honestly, nobody knows what their party will look like a few decades from now..depends on what Poo bear does n how long he is around..hopefully he doesn't get too megalomanial...but with their new economy he can't behave like some emperor n do whatever he wants, no matter how much he wants to...

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    I can understand why we had emperors and kings in the early age of men, but after the 20th century, you'd think people would want to be in control of their own lives. Yet for some reason you still find some people out there who believe that emperors, kings, dictators and totalitarian governments should be allowed to control the lives of their citizens in addition to annexing territories that don't belong to them just so they can control their neighbors too.

    It's very fascinating there are people in the modern day and age who want to see the return of God Kings.
    It's like a machine learning for the first time that humans are illogical creatures and often support ideals that are completely against their own interests. Fascinating indeed...
    Synek - best rogue in the world


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    I can understand why we had emperors and kings in the early age of men, but after the 20th century, you'd think people would want to be in control of their own lives. Yet for some reason you still find some people out there who believe that emperors, kings, dictators and totalitarian governments should be allowed to control the lives of their citizens in addition to annexing territories that don't belong to them just so they can control their neighbors too.

    It's very fascinating there are people in the modern day and age who want to see the return of God Kings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    It's like a machine learning for the first time that humans are illogical creatures and often support ideals that are completely against their own interests. Fascinating indeed...
    During the age of kings...when countries weren't in thrall of one ruler, they were controlled by scheming Nobles.. isn't that what controls the west now? Economic Nobles? Oligarchs? Giant corporations? What is the individual in that?..The benefit of a King is that you had to only get the attention of one guy to raise your issue, but now..you have the middle class imploding because everyone wants to ding! next level which means almost everyone is worse off..people can buy less today than before (like houses)..

    Humanity is a long, loooong way from freedom...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    but with their new economy he can't behave like some emperor n do whatever he wants, no matter how much he wants to...
    LMAO. Yes he can.

  14. #34
    https://twitter.com/Sloth_On_Meth/st...26826731708417
    Friendly reminder that there's people on this forum who supports this commie shithole

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Strangebrew View Post
    https://twitter.com/Sloth_On_Meth/st...26826731708417
    Friendly reminder that there's people on this forum who supports this commie shithole
    What am I supposed to make of that video with no context, from twitter of all places? From an account of some reddit dude...all we need now is 4 chan..

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