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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Roship View Post
    Honestly wouldn't mind. If it's just cosmetics, who cares. Even allied races, still wouldn't care. Long as they aren't selling anything that ups your in-game power level it isn't a big deal.
    so you are ok if 50% of the things they make end up being locked in micro transaction ? maybe you are ok with playing a character only made with lines and dots as their body and head but having graphical cosmetic stuff is actually part of the game and must not be locked behind a pay wall.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I already gave my honest opinion earlier in this thread.
    Then argue THAT instead of trying to be angry at someone else's opinion. Seriously.
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  3. #303
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Then argue THAT instead of trying to be angry at someone else's opinion. Seriously.
    The problem wasn't the opinion itself, but rather that it was presented as fact, and in a very presumptuous tone to boot.
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  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The problem wasn't the opinion itself, but rather that it was presented as fact, and in a very presumptuous tone to boot.
    So let's get back to your original point then(which I actually tend to agree with). You said earlier in the thread:

    "
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    A cash shop may be OK for a truly F2P title, but imo it's completely unacceptable in a game that charges you for the box as well as for the mandatory monthly fee.
    Which is I think where the difference of opinions is breaking down. What Raelbo is saying is technically correct. Often times the revenue from a game's cash shop can pay for both more cash shop items as well as help fund additional in-game content for everyone. This is actually the foundation of the F2P model.

    The point of contention is that a cash shop does not seem necessary to fund ANYTHING in a title which is already charging $40-$50 for each expansion on top of a monthly subscription(which can also earn an extra $5 for Blizz via token). Not to mention collectors editions. WoW is not a F2P game, so why are we seeing more and more elements of the F2P model associated with it?

    I think @Raelbo has does have some responsibility to back up his statements about the cash shop funding WoW content or cash shop items. But he's not technically wrong, either. The only real argument here is whether or not we, as players, find it acceptable for a cash shop to be part of WoW's business model.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    It looks like you have no actual data, so instead you wrote a big wall of text with even bigger assumptions (disguised as "logic" or "common sense" lul) to hide it. MMOC "argumentation" at its finest.

    Go get actual data before you discuss Blizzard's business plans, until then /shoo
    How about you get the data then?

    Or failing that, put together a logical argument of your own. In the very least, if you want to take umbrage with my argument, at least have the courtesy to show me where my logic goes wrong.

    Of course you don't want to do that, because you lack an argument, you just want to be pissed at Blizz and woe betide anyone who has the audacity to point out that you're actually just full of nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The point of contention is that a cash shop does not seem necessary to fund ANYTHING in a title which is already charging $40-$50 for each expansion on top of a monthly subscription(which can also earn an extra $5 for Blizz via token). Not to mention collectors editions. WoW is not a F2P game, so why are we seeing more and more elements of the F2P model associated with it?
    I would have thought the answer was obvious.

    WoW has less than half the number of subscribers that it had at its peak. Not to mention that the subscription rate hasn't increased in 15 years and even at low inflation that is going to affect their real earnings.

    In short, the rise of alternative revenue streams has become necessary for the game in order to mitigate their loss of revenue from other streams. And while I realise it's a popular notion among people on MMO-C to believe that Blizzard has absolutely no reason to need more money other than greed, the reality of the business world is that endeavours that show massive losses in revenue and do nothing about it are doomed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I think @Raelbo has does have some responsibility to back up his statements about the cash shop funding WoW content or cash shop items.
    Ok, I'll be blunt: Sod off. @Soon-TM too. I have backed up my statements far more than the people I am debating against. The demand that I present data to counter an assertion equally devoid of data is ridiculous. It's little more than an attempt to deflect from the fact that my opponents have no argument.

    As you said, I am basically correct. My logic is sound. If you're going to hold me to having to produce data that obviously isn't available while giving a free pass to everyone else who is making their own unsupported assertions on the other side, then that's just plain hypocrisy. This debate, by virtue of the lack of hard data is all about who can come up with the better argument, so by all means be critical of my argument. The only people who should be held responsible for producing data are those who demand it of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The only real argument here is whether or not we, as players, find it acceptable for a cash shop to be part of WoW's business model.
    Not whether, but why. I cannot change the fact that some people are going to insist on being butthurt by the cash shop. But I can, and will, point out whether their reasons have any actual merit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    This is mostly true. I would only add that the shop is not necessarily reliant on the success of the game, but rather on the perceived value of whales APPEARING successful and superior within the game's community. This is what we see with many predatory phone games. Most notably was the example of "Mariokart Tour", which used relatively advanced bots to masquerade as human players while wearing cash-shop items.

    That's sort of a side topic. I simply wanted to point out the context that a cash shop profits is sometimes only loosely tied to the actual reality of the game.
    You're talking past what I was saying. It doesn't matter what kind of shenanigans the developers pull to make the items in the shop sell better, shop sales still, fundamentally, depend on the existence of an active playerbase. And the bigger that playerbase, the bigger the pool of customers available to the shop.

    All other factors being equal, if Blizzard neglects the state of the game in order to benefit the shop, it's going to cost them subscribers, which costs them not only lost money from subscriptions, but from the shop too.

  6. #306
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    Don't care if they add more MTX to the shop, still won't support it.

  7. #307

  8. #308
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    @Raelbo you've made a lot of assumptions about Blizzard's business development with nothing to back them up, yet you are STILL selling them as an ultimate truth. It is not my job to prove or disprove them, burden of proof is still a thing last time I checked. I just want to know how can you be so sure with nothing at all to back your words up.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2019-11-25 at 01:24 PM.
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  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    @Raelbo you've made a lot of assumptions about Blizzard's business development with nothing to back them up, yet you are STILL selling them as an ultimate truth. It is not my job to prove or disprove them, burden of proof is still a thing last time I checked. I just want to know how can you be so sure with nothing at all to back your words up.
    I've already adequately answered this nonsense.

  10. #310
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I've already adequately answered this nonsense.
    No, you haven't. See, I can do huge, baseless statements too.
    "The heart of the Horde" = Alliance-approved Horde

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Pre-order bonuses are not new in WoW. RAF-exclusive rewards are not new in WoW. You're going nuts over nothing.



    I would definitely care if they sold allied races, as that I consider to be content (plus they can have racials that impact PvP and the like, not that I pick them up for the racials)
    How do you get "nuts" out of the OP? It's pretty lukewarm.

  12. #312
    Buy expansion, pay sub, cool shit on the cash shop anyway

    Thanks blizzard.
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    Diablo Bore.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by TickerDS View Post
    Literally everything on the cash shop can now be earned in game.

    Grind gold...get token...sell token....get your earned loot that you did not pay cash for.

    In some regards the cash shop stuff is a more logical and easily obtained thing in game than many many other items that you can spend months/years farming in game.
    "Cough"5milliongoldmount"Cough"
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  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Not sure if anyone really grasped what just happened in the last few months.

    First they implement a new RAF system that rewards you with a full xmog set, a set that's extremely unique. Then they just used a full xmog set as an upsell with the new expansion. Another extremely unique set. These are just the beginning of many many more xmog sets. Possibly weapon enchants, skins...

    Remember how the mounts and pets worked. Celestial Steed appeared. Then a long while until the next. Now there's a new mount added every few months. It was a long onramp to get the playerbase acclimated over time.

    If you look at other MMOs, a loaded cash shop with cosmetics and boosts isn't anything new, however WoW is a subscription MMO, so that has to be taken into consideration.

    Will be interesting to see where this all leads in a few years, personally I wouldn't even be surprised if we eventually see races.
    You do realise that all of these can be bought with a lot less ingame gold than the brutosaur mount, which costs 5 mil gold? I see no complaining about the brutosaur mount, so why do you treat cash shop items (which can be treated as gold sinks vaguely), as if they are something out of the ordinary? Hell, buying an entire year of sub to get the entire set from RAF costs like 1/5th of the brutosaur's gold (if you factor in the extra months of gametime you are getting).

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    No, you haven't. See, I can do huge, baseless statements too.
    Lol. You've shown zero evidence of being able to manage anything "huge". Small, baseless, sure. It seems that's your limit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The problem wasn't the opinion itself, but rather that it was presented as fact, and in a very presumptuous tone to boot.
    Oh cry me a river. How the hell do you take umbrage with me when this thread is FULL people (yourself included) presumptuously presenting baseless opinions as facts. The post you took issue with was itself responding to exactly the same.

    And when you "challenged" me to back up my statements, I took the effort to explain my reasoning with an actual argument. But when invited to critique said backing, which you requested, all you could respond with was to call it a wall of text.

    Nay, I think the real issue here is that you're triggered because someone has the audicity to challenge your view. And because you clearly lack the ability to counter the argument, your response is simply to go full on ad hominem. All you've done is hit me with flat 2-3 line responses devoid of any reasoning.

    Also, talk about irony. I dug up your "contribution" to the discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    This dude(tte) gets it. A cash shop may be OK for a truly F2P title, but imo it's completely unacceptable in a game that charges you for the box as well as for the mandatory monthly fee.
    You have some gall flaming me for making baseless claims and then demanding that I bring "data" to the discussion
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2019-11-26 at 07:14 AM.

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