Have blizzard given up on any parity of soloability?

[Nosgoth]

Depends on class/spec but there aren't a ton of dps that will do more damage to big trash packs sans long cooldowns than a geared tank. But if you're killing 1-3 mobs at a time, then yeah, tank would be slower.

At the same itemlevel, every dps does more damage than a tank.

[Marrilaife]

That's not a bfa or legion trend. It's been like that since at least bc. A tank with self healing ability is king at soloing.
It doesn't mean that the mage tower challenge was easier for a tank.
So you just wrote a big pile of sad boring complaint for absolutely nothing. Because we still don't know anything about the mall.

Tbh there was no parity since vanilla, pet classes like hunter and lock had easier time levelling, mage had superior aoe so could grind mobs the fastest, rogues and druids could stealth skipping some unnecessary trash and getting to the named mob faster, etc.

Anyway for Toghast they said you can pick power up chests that you can choose extra buffs that should either cover your class weaknesses or capitalize on its strengths. We'll see in practice when we get to beta.

[Nnyco]

Somethin you even called yourself "invincible" got nerfed?! Shocker.

[crakerjack]

I beg to differ. The journey back in the day wasn't completely soloable. 1-120 might be, but if you want to raid, do m+ or any organized PvP, you'll have to play with others. So no, the core of the game doesn't revolve around single player content, far from. If someone wants to play solo, they're stuck running mindless legacy content for mounts/xmogs and doing WQ's at max level. Sure they might be able to do this new tower of the damned, but I'm willing to wager that a group of 3-5 will progress further than someone who is solo.

I'd wish they'd move away from single player content and focus more on group content. If you want to play a single player game, there are countless games out there that do a WAY better job than WoW every could. What makes WoW great is that it's a fantastic MMORPG, not an RPG. It's mean to be played with other people. I'm an introvert myself, but the most boring/worst times I've ever had in WoW, was when I was guildless and didn't have a consistent community to play with.

[baskev]

In observing the reactions to the disc priest nerfs, and in looking forward to 8.3, shadowlands, and the arrival of the one-to-five player content, I keep coming back to the same line of thinking:

Have blizzard just abandoned the idea of any kind of parity in respect of the players who are invested in “overworld unfriendly” classes?

I started BFA with my “horde main” being what I called at the time an “invincipline priest.” As a soloing player, discipline had one weakness: they couldn’t really AOE to save their lives, but the “vampiric” nature of atonement allowed them to evevtually whittle down an overworld overpull one target at a time.

That... got “fixed,” and “Invincipline” is no more. I then changed horde mains and the horde story was experienced by a tank character from then on.

And that’s basically been the trend since legion: the overworld game belongs to tanks and pet classes, so that’s where my time has gone and is going with all this solo-friendly content on the horizon. Like it or not (and to say I like it would be a massive understatement, it’s saved the game for me), the future of WoW is that of a main thoroughfare that’s soloable or self-enabled via LFX Queues. Sadly the downside of that refreshing ownership of one’s time is that the mages, priests and most shaman of the world are just... screwed?

My question boils down to this: do the classes not... as intended for soloing deserve some degree of support in the face of horrific visions and torghast, or is the “to” in “one to five” meant to be the answer there? Is it enough that everyone *can* bring friends when hunters, warlocks and most tanks won’t have to? Is the answer “don’t play this class if you want to play alone” acceptable? I mean, that’s basically how I’ve adapted, but I look at my alt-bench of priests and mages and I can’t help but think they deserve better.


PS: Please realize that all the “it’s a an MMO, you should need me to gate your access to content” doesn’t really belong here. I certainly acknowledge that there are viable and supported avenues of multiplayer progression that do and should always exist, but you cannot deny that the core of the game in this modern MMO is and should be aimed at the individual on their own time paying their own subscription. Multiplayer avenues are valid and important, but I’m not talking about that experience here except to ask if the group-scalable content’s answer for some classes might be “bring a friend,” and if that’s fair in the context of how other classes can viably enjoy the same content.

Thank you for reading.

Think you are asking. why can i not solo stuff on my priest, while other classes can.
Because you class does not change when you enter a pve 5 mythic, raid or pvp match. And things that make you survive in solo content. May make you way to OP in group content.
And if they need to look at all classes like you want...they have just doubled ( or even trippelt , for pvp) the amount of work they need to do on classes.

If you want to solo stuff as a priest. Do not pull to much or play as a shadow priest.

[Jester Joe]

At the same itemlevel, every dps does more damage than a tank.

In AoE? Absolutely not.

A good warrior will demolish several specs. I imagine prot paladin could come close too with the right build.

[Nosgoth]

In AoE? Absolutely not.

A good warrior will demolish several specs. I imagine prot paladin could come close too with the right build.

What specs?

[Jester Joe]

What specs?

Uh...what? Literally any DPS spec with less than stellar aoe?

Affliction lock is one.

Do you not do M+? Prot warriors can compete in damage with classes like rogue and DH for aoe damage.

[Nosgoth]

Uh...what? Literally any DPS spec with less than stellar aoe?

Affliction lock is one.

Do you not do M+? Prot warriors can compete in damage with classes like rogue and DH for aoe damage.

Yeah, no. That's nonsense.

[Jester Joe]

Yeah, no. That's nonsense.

Literally anyone who runs keys or watches the MDI can tell you this much. Do you think all MDI teams have a warrior as a joke?

[Beatman]

but you cannot deny that the core of the game in this modern MMO is and should be aimed at the individual on their own time paying their own subscription. Multiplayer avenues are valid and important, but I’m not talking about that experience here except to ask if the group-scalable content’s answer for some classes might be “bring a friend,” and if that’s fair in the context of how other classes can viably enjoy the same content.

Thank you for reading.

Oh, I can and will deny that. If you expect to do the meaningful content alone in WoW, it has never been for you. Players shouldn't be rewarded for anti-social gameplay in a MMO.

[Kaver]

And I do not understand why people insist on things must be group play. I recall playing WoTLK with my main and much later on my alt. The difference were very noticeable. On my main, meeting people and helping each other were possible. Meaning group quests to kill elites did not take long to complete. On my alt much later, such group content were skipped simply because meeting players were very rare.

It is a MMO meaning lots of people playing in the same game. It does not imply people must play as a group.

And what is the main part of the game that you mentioned?

I'm not talking about question. That can be soloable. No problem.

I'm talking about WoW in general.

It is a MMO, so group play is essential.

PvP, M+ and Raiding is the core of the game and this is all group driven content.

I'm fine with the game having some solo content such as collecting stuff etc. However, solo content should not be a source of good gear and the core content of a MMO should never be based on solo play. I know that you just said that a MMO doesn't imply people must play as a group, but the you're wrong in relation to core content. Not everything should be played as a group, but the CORE content should. And it is in WoW.

And I personally don't understand why anybody would choose to play WoW instead of Red Dead Redemption 2 or Witcher 3 if they were looking for a single player game.

[Trend]

At the same itemlevel, every dps does more damage than a tank.

Thanks for your input but you're wrong. 443 guardian does at least as much damage with 20+ mobs as 444 boomkin. With the guardian I can do 90k+ on every pull and there are some dps spec that can do more but they also tend to die when pulling 30 or more mobs, which ends up with a net lower dps. Real boomkin damage is cleave and not AoE and it doesn't scale as well with mob count.

You've made other comments that make me think you've only experience the game south of 410 ilvl.

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Yeah, no. That's nonsense.

It's just funny how much you have no idea what you're talking about but you're so confident at the same time.

[rrayy]

I don’t understand people who want to mainly play solo (90+ % of the time) in a MMO. I’m all for some solo content like the Mage Towers, however, the main part of the game is designed to be experienced in group play. It is a MMO.

MMO does not = group play required. MMO = Massive Multi-Player Online. That means a lot of people in one place playing the game. It does not mean it is designed for groups.

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I'm not talking about question. That can be soloable. No problem.

I'm talking about WoW in general.

It is a MMO, so group play is essential.

Again no it is not. All MMO means is a lot of people playing the game at the same time. Group play is NEVER essential nor is it required. Period. It doesn't matter what you think it should be.

[Dakara]

I don’t understand people who want to mainly play solo (90+ % of the time) in a MMO. I’m all for some solo content like the Mage Towers, however, the main part of the game is designed to be experienced in group play. It is a MMO.

MMO doesn’t mean multiplayer all the time... let’s not forget it’s also an MMORPG.

However, what I believe the OP is referring to is potentially being forced to group for content other classes can solo, and I believe they have a valid point.

Take me, for example. I schedule my 3 nights a week for raiding (down to 1 at the moment, until 8.3), then, as I’m a shift worker, find myself playing during the daytime 2-3 days a week when most of my friends are offline. This is where solo content comes into play. World content (or overworld as per the OP) is a good way to pass the time when and if I have it. If I had to spend time looking for pugs for every aspect of wow (as my friends are offline), I simply wouldn’t play. For this reason, I have a very low .io score as I don’t pug.

I think half the problem with modern WOW its lost the RPG element. Solo content is fine to fill the gaps... or as the endgame for those who choose or.

[Kaver]

MMO doesn’t mean multiplayer all the time... let’s not forget it’s also an MMORPG.

However, what I believe the OP is referring to is potentially being forced to group for content other classes can solo, and I believe they have a valid point.

Take me, for example. I schedule my 3 nights a week for raiding (down to 1 at the moment, until 8.3), then, as I’m a shift worker, find myself playing during the daytime 2-3 days a week when most of my friends are offline. This is where solo content comes into play. World content (or overworld as per the OP) is a good way to pass the time when and if I have it. If I had to spend time looking for pugs for every aspect of wow (as my friends are offline), I simply wouldn’t play. For this reason, I have a very low .io score as I don’t pug.

I think half the problem with modern WOW its lost the RPG element. Solo content is fine to fill the gaps... or as the endgame for those who choose or.

I agree that solo content is okay to fill the gaps. I like solo content myself. The mage towers were great in my opinion and I like doing old raids for transmog and mounts.

However I do believe that the purpose of a MMO must be to play with or against other people. Otherwise it seems pointless to me. I’m not a big fan of one game trying to fulfil the desires of everyone. A game like CS GO should for example in my opinion never implement solo play. It should focus on what it does best. I think the same about WoW. The core content is still Raiding, PvP and Dungeons which are all group content and in my opinion the game should just stick with that and let other games provide great solo content.

Personally I think WoW would be boring if I only focused on solo content. I would choose another game that provides a much better single-player experience.

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MMO does not = group play required. MMO = Massive Multi-Player Online. That means a lot of people in one place playing the game. It does not mean it is designed for groups.

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Again no it is not. All MMO means is a lot of people playing the game at the same time. Group play is NEVER essential nor is it required. Period. It doesn't matter what you think it should be.

Rrayy I didn’t say it was required. I do understand that there are no official rules for what a MMO must be.

However, I do believe that the main purpose of a MMO must be to play with or against other people. And I know a lot of people share this opinion. A single-player MMO seems a bit contradictory. Why not just choose a great single-player game if you’re going to play alone anyway.

[KrazieFox]

I don’t understand people who want to mainly play solo (90+ % of the time) in a MMO. I’m all for some solo content like the Mage Towers, however, the main part of the game is designed to be experienced in group play. It is a MMO.

I want to address this one - 'back in the day' - early 2000's Massive Multiplayer Online (MMO's) were NOT the mainstream games they are now. To play an mmo required you to coordinate with your friends whet time you'll be online, etc - there was no point logging in if none of your friends were online, unless you got lucky and a few others had logged in early (god forbid you logged in during the wee early hours) ... because you could not even leave town without a group - mmo's were very much a niche market that would, eventually, have died out due to lack of players. Had World of Warcraft not come along most players today would think of MMO's as 'retro'.

World of Warcraft was a phenomenal success, that left all other MMO's in the dust simply because you could log in at any time and play - players were not insta-wiped if they left town on their own, without a group. No other MMO has had the number of players World of Warcraft had, it peaked in 2010 with 12 MILLION subscribers. All other MMO's around at the time started following WoW's lead - some changing their core game to do so (Star Wars Galaxies, for example).

The main reason for this phenomenal success was SOLO PLAY - didn't matter what time you logged on, or for how long, you could progress your character - ON YOUR OWN!

So, all you people who keep going on & on about MMO's should only be about teaming with other players, remember that the whole genre only became mainstream because of the ability to solo ... I think you will find that at least 75% of each mmo's population is made up of solo players ... probably closer to 85%.
Solo players are the 'bread & butter' for MMO games.

[Kaver]

I want to address this one - 'back in the day' - early 2000's Massive Multiplayer Online (MMO's) were NOT the mainstream games they are now. To play an mmo required you to coordinate with your friends whet time you'll be online, etc - there was no point logging in if none of your friends were online, unless you got lucky and a few others had logged in early (god forbid you logged in during the wee early hours) ... because you could not even leave town without a group - mmo's were very much a niche market that would, eventually, have died out due to lack of players. Had World of Warcraft not come along most players today would think of MMO's as 'retro'.

World of Warcraft was a phenomenal success, that left all other MMO's in the dust simply because you could log in at any time and play - players were not insta-wiped if they left town on their own, without a group. No other MMO has had the number of players World of Warcraft had, it peaked in 2010 with 12 MILLION subscribers. All other MMO's around at the time started following WoW's lead - some changing their core game to do so (Star Wars Galaxies, for example).

The main reason for this phenomenal success was SOLO PLAY - didn't matter what time you logged on, or for how long, you could progress your character - ON YOUR OWN!

So, all you people who keep going on & on about MMO's should only be about teaming with other players, remember that the whole genre only became mainstream because of the ability to solo ... I think you will find that at least 75% of each mmo's population is made up of solo players ... probably closer to 85%.
Solo players are the 'bread & butter' for MMO games.

That might be true. Or not. Your numbers are definitely made up. They might be accurate. Or not.

However, no matter what, I still don't understand how Playing WoW as a solo game is fun compared to playing Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2. It's good that some parts of WoW is soloable, but the main content is still based on group play.

[KrazieFox]

That might be true. Or not. Your numbers are definitely made up. They might be accurate. Or not.

However, no matter what, I still don't understand how Playing WoW as a solo game is fun compared to playing Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2. It's good that some parts of WoW is soloable, but the main content is still based on group play.

I have played Witcher 3 - it ended, I have played Red Dead Redemption 3 - it ended ... you see both your examples have a 'beginning', a 'middle' and an 'end' ... MMO's, by their very nature, never 'end' ... it is open ended, ready for the next expansion. How many expansions has Witcher 3 had? How many expansions has Red Dead 2 had? If a friend calls & says "Hey, I'm also playing Red Dead 2 & I'm stuck on this particular mission, can you help me?" - "Sure", I replay ... "oh wait, no I cannot, it's a solo campaign, sorry".

I'd also like to ask you to name one, just one, POPULAR mmo that forces 100%, or even 80%, of the content to be Group only. Just one, that should not be too hard for you, seeing as you say MMO's are about grouping ... so ... just name ONE popular mmo that has the majority of content group only ... I am eager to hear this ... has to be a popular mmo (with a decent population) ... with ot without a sub ...

Talking of 'Subs' (subscription model) ... imagine you just paid your sub for the month, then a new game drops & all your friends go play that - leaving just you enjoying the game. you still have so much you want to do - but now you are alone ... and all the content is group only ... what do you do now? Stay in camp & hope some other players come along? Say you did decide to do that ... how long do you wait? An hour? A day? A week? ... at what point do you decide to cancel your sub & wait until your friends come back? What do you think happens to the game with no one left to sub for a couple months?

When most players have completed all the new expansion & moved on, in WoW, who do you think is still there? Who do you think is still there slowly levelling up & still enjoying the content you & your friends finished weeks, months ago? A year after the last expansion & no new one yet announced, during that 'lul' it is the solo players keeping the game ticking over for the most part ... collecting all the mounts, collecting all the Loremaster achievements (before Loremaster was tied to flying/pathfinder), opening up every corner of the map, collecting all the mini-pets, maxing out their fishing, their cooking, etc ... making a ton of bags/gear/weapons to sell on the auction house? Collecting all the mats so they can make a ton of potions for the next big patch announcement & the influx of returning players?

People Solo for numerous reasons, maybe they can only play between the hours of 1am - 7am ..., maybe they have a handicap (physical or neurological), who simply cannot keep up with the rest of the group? Would you tell them they should not play? Even theough they are happy to pay the sub all year round? Maybe they have had a hard day at work dealing with a ton of people & simply want to log in & do their dailies, or just fish (to increase their skill or to sell on the Auction House) - would you tell these people not to bother subbibg, or simply not to bother logging in until they are ready to team (which would probably be weekends) ...

Anyway, enough of my waffle - just name ONE 'popular' (high population) mmo that forces Group Play for the majority of content (805 - 100%) - am eagerly anticipating your response

[KrazieFox]

That might be true. Or not. Your numbers are definitely made up. They might be accurate. Or not.

However, no matter what, I still don't understand how Playing WoW as a solo game is fun compared to playing Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2. It's good that some parts of WoW is soloable, but the main content is still based on group play.

I have played Witcher 3 - it ended, I have played Red Dead Redemption 3 - it ended ... you see both your examples have a 'beginning', a 'middle' and an 'end' ... MMO's, by their very nature, never 'end' ... it is open ended, ready for the next expansion. How many expansions has Witcher 3 had? How many expansions has Red Dead 2 had? If a friend calls & says "Hey, I'm also playing Red Dead 2 & I'm stuck on this particular mission, can you help me?" - "Sure", I replay ... "oh wait, no I cannot, it's a solo campaign, sorry".

I'd also like to ask you to name one, just one, POPULAR mmo that forces 100%, or even 80%, of the content to be Group only. Just one, that should not be too hard for you, seeing as you say MMO's are about grouping ... so ... just name ONE popular mmo that has the majority of content group only ... I am eager to hear this ... has to be a popular mmo (with a decent population) ... with ot without a sub ...

Talking of 'Subs' (subscription model) ... imagine you just paid your sub for the month, then a new game drops & all your friends go play that - leaving just you enjoying the game. you still have so much you want to do - but now you are alone ... and all the content is group only ... what do you do now? Stay in camp & hope some other players come along? Say you did decide to do that ... how long do you wait? An hour? A day? A week? ... at what point do you decide to cancel your sub & wait until your friends come back? What do you think happens to the game with no one left to sub for a couple months?

When most players have completed all the new expansion & moved on, in WoW, who do you think is still there? Who do you think is still there slowly levelling up & still enjoying the content you & your friends finished weeks, months ago? A year after the last expansion & no new one yet announced, during that 'lul' it is the solo players keeping the game ticking over for the most part ... collecting all the mounts, collecting all the Loremaster achievements (before Loremaster was tied to flying/pathfinder), opening up every corner of the map, collecting all the mini-pets, maxing out their fishing, their cooking, etc ... making a ton of bags/gear/weapons to sell on the auction house? Collecting all the mats so they can make a ton of potions for the next big patch announcement & the influx of returning players?

People Solo for numerous reasons, maybe they can only play between the hours of 1am - 7am ..., maybe they have a handicap (physical or neurological), who simply cannot keep up with the rest of the group? Would you tell them they should not play? Even theough they are happy to pay the sub all year round? Maybe they have had a hard day at work dealing with a ton of people & simply want to log in & do their dailies, or just fish (to increase their skill or to sell on the Auction House) - would you tell these people not to bother subbibg, or simply not to bother logging in until they are ready to team (which would probably be weekends) ...

Anyway, enough of my waffle - just name ONE 'popular' (high population) mmo that forces Group Play for the majority of content (80% - 100%) - am eagerly anticipating your response