Highborne customizations for the Night Elves (NOT High Elves)

[Ardenaso]

The truth can do strange things to people.

Its exactly what anigma said. There is a whole lotta nothing in here, because the ship has sailed for it to be a playable race.

If you get your jewerly and some sexy haircut for night elves will you be happy and shut up? Or is there more to this whole thread besides some hairstyles and eye colors?

Its funny, dont wanna sound harsh, but it realy starts to look like you are debating with yourself here? I mean you are the one who is doing all of this.@ mace

Most new options for the races arent even in, so I assume some will come and hopefully for you will spark that highborne interest. Honestly.

But the qq to nightborne and all the jelly feelings should stop. We get it and we dont need a essay of headcanon or 100 pictures being sent if some one dissagrees mace. It always makes for a terrible discussion.

Lets just stop this.. its been the high elf fanpage 2.0 already, lets not makr it worse.

I was actually in jest in that post because of their derivation = go to opposite faction posts and I'm biased to want to push my Alteraci Humans

[Alanar]

You are to blame if you go about interpreting that Nightborne on the horde means that Alliance Night elves can't be Highborne or shouldn't get Highborne customisations or should be rubbish at arcane magic, and all live in trees and hug them.

Then come on a topic, Night elf fans are exploring and expressing what sort of customisations they should have, only to tell them that they can't or shouldn't have them because "Nightborne are Highborne, and blizzard put that on the horde, therefore it's ours, you can't have it anymore" /rolleyes. [Just like @Tharivor and @Alanar]

And admitting the obvious, [That night elves can be Highborne), gets you no brownie points and does not make the wrong things you said right nor make you sound more reasonable.

You jusy dont need to step on the nightborne toes is all I am saying.

Listen dude.. this is you: WE HAVE NIGHT ELF MAGES SO LETS REMOVE THEM ALL TOGETHER.

Do you see now.. its getting annoying mace. You are not making sense, but as I said before and couple of others.. that arcane era has never been anythibg the night elves stand for throughout whole of wow and because YOU get horny of that stuff we need to make room for highborne, who we basically already have, bit not on your preferd side.

This rigjt here makes this whole thread disgusting. Its your view and the only thing I am constantly seeing is that you are just flatout jelly on the nighborne. Get over it.

I was trying to be nice to say I hope you get atleast a few option to toy around with.. bit noo I get: SO WE SHOULD REMOVE NIGH ELF MAGES?

You have no idea how much of a fool you are making out of yourself. Sorry.


Ps: dont be mad at me, this is how the story goes, if you want to be angry over your obsession, speak it out to blizz and ask if they are willing to change the suramar storyline.

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I was actually in jest in that post because of their derivation = go to opposite faction posts and I'm biased to want to push my Alteraci Humans

I saw the jest, no worries

[Rhlor]

You are to blame if you go about interpreting that Nightborne on the horde means that Alliance Night elves can't be Highborne or shouldn't get Highborne customisations or should be rubbish at arcane magic, and all live in trees and hug them.

Then come on a topic, Night elf fans are exploring and expressing what sort of customisations they should have, only to tell them that they can't or shouldn't have them because "Nightborne are Highborne, and blizzard put that on the horde, therefore it's ours, you can't have it anymore" /rolleyes. [Just like @Tharivor and @Alanar]

And admitting the obvious, [That night elves can be Highborne), gets you no brownie points and does not make the wrong things you said right nor make you sound more reasonable.

In the canon the night elves cannot be good users of arcane magic because they rejected it for 10 thousand years!

that the blood elves and the nightborne are better than the night elves in the use of arcane magic is normal, in the same way it is normal that the night elves are the best druids in the lore!

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Exactly. My dear and talented @Astranea , don't let any of this get to you


[LIST][*]At first the horde elves were "defined " by being pale skinned elves, not by having Night elf cities and Highborne night elves, nor having exclusive rights to arcane magic.
.

the exclusive right to arcane magic was part of the difference between blood elves and night elves until Cata! after that the difference was that blood elves are better users of arcane magic! This makes sense because the night elves forbade the use of arcane magic for 10,000 years!

[Isilrien]

They are a lot more than what I am saying, but they prove the point these things are important to fans, so though they view things that way, fans need a little extra to show.

It doesn't hurt one bit, to bring the Moonguard to the Shen'dralar and show them taking over, put Moonguard alongside sentinels, and it is also nothing to switch off the ghost effect on the Farondis models, and bringing the Prince back as a living Highborne and taking the lead

Even if they don't build anything yet, showing this up turn in development can make a lot of difference to fans like me.

Not everyone who is a Night Elf fan agrees with you and so not all fans think this is as important as you do, so your argument that this should be implemented is faulty. Again, I say this because: it's not important to all NE fans and some (perhaps most) of us are not on these forums and/or are not interested enough to be vocal to contradict you and others who have the same/similar opinion. I agree with EnigmaAddict, for example: we have the arcane/Highborne NEs represented already.

[Mace]

Lets just stop this.. lets not makr it worse.

.

Is about the only thing I agree with you on here. And I'm not QQing about Nightborne.

[Alanar]

Is about the only thing I agree with you on here. And I'm not QQing about Nightborne.

Nice and short, perfect. Not quoting me in every sentence ey?
Seems I hit the right nerve this time,.. good.


Okey cool, lets wrap it up then.


ps: Yes you are.

[Mace]

I was trying to be nice to say I hope you get atleast a few option to toy around with.. bit noo I get: SO WE SHOULD REMOVE NIGH ELF MAGES?

Ps: dont be mad at me, this is how the story goes, if you want to be angry over your obsession, speak it out to blizz and ask if they are willing to change the suramar storyline.

p.s. I've heard that one before. I have made my point.

You have no idea how much of a fool you are making out of yourself. Sorry

Oh really? Not one comments like this:

In the canon the night elves cannot be good users of arcane magic because they rejected it for 10 thousand years!

that the blood elves and the nightborne are better than the night elves in the use of arcane magic is normal, in the same way it is normal that the night elves are the best druids in the lore!


the exclusive right to arcane magic was part of the difference between blood elves and night elves until Cata! after that the difference was that blood elves are better users of arcane magic! This makes sense because the night elves forbade the use of arcane magic for 10,000 years!

Continue to prove my point and justify why I have bothered to such lengths. He isn't joking, he actually thinks this is true. It's never been said, or shown, in fact quite the opposite. The basis for his feeling this? Mis-understanding what is been shown in the Azshara zone questline. Everything else to him his irrelevant, even when you point out so many things that say otherwise, including actual Dev tweets and quotes.


Afterall, I am only responding to what you guys say. and if this fellow here, like you chooses to say and believe things like that, even if we prove, with quotes, pics, excerpts, you name it Well it is far from the first time, someone has spoken the truth over something, and some others just refuse to accept. Thankfully, it really is just a handful of you.

we can all live in the bubble we want, but as for me, I'd rather accept what is actually the truth.

[Alanar]

p.s. I've heard that one before. I have made my point.


Oh really? Not one comments like this:



Continue to prove my point and justify why I have bothered to such lengths. Afterall, I am only responding to what you guys say. and if this fellow here, like you chooses to say and believe things like that, even if we prove, with quotes, pics, excerpts, you name it Well it is far from the first time, someone has spoken the truth over something, and some others just refuse to accept. Thankfully, it really is just a handful of you.

we can all live in the bubble we want, but as for me, I'd rather accept what is actually the truth.

Was that a call out to the nightborne bubble? haha
Dude just stop it, you make 100 points.. can't find them in those 5k words per post. I believe in the truth and we all see it.. yet you are not quite there yet.

[Mace]

Was that a call out to the nightborne bubble? haha
Dude just stop it, you make 100 points.. can't find them in those 5k words per post. I believe in the truth and we all see it.. yet you are not quite there yet.

Then read the posts, before you comment. If I do bullet points you argue, and force me to elaborate, If I elaborate right of the bat, you don't read it because it's 5,000 words.

Anyway, I thought we agreed to stop huh? This argument isn't changing either of our minds and is not really helping the topic. So, agree to disagree?

Same with you @Tharivor, and @EnigmAddict and definitely @Rhlor -- it's not like your life depends on you agreeing with me or seeing the things I point out. It's really going no where, and we should save it for a thread that particularly discusses this. Then we can have Round 3.

[Astranea]

the ship has sailed for it to be a playable race. [...]

Most new options for the races arent even in, so I assume some will come and hopefully for you will spark that highborne interest. Honestly.

If I may say, I never intended the Highborne as an allied race, and I would be extremely pleased to 'just' get some new skins/faces or jewels/hairstyles, so yes, I could very much agree that arguing about the lore is not necessary, and the only reason I personally brought up some reference here and there it was to explain why I felt the suggested aesthetic additions would be totally story-consistent rather than Lore-breaking.

All I ever wished for the thread was a simple "I'd like some extra customization that could enforce the roleplay of a Shen'dralar mage - anybody else?" and I just hope Blizzard handles it like they have decided to do with the Wildhammer customization for those who like to roleplay Dwarves who were not born in Ironforge.

So thanks. Honestly. :-)

PLZ BLIZZ, Moarrr fancy hairstyles and girly jewels for my Night Elf mage! :-D

[Rhlor]

p.s. I've heard that one before. I have made my point.


Oh really? Not one comments like this:



Continue to prove my point and justify why I have bothered to such lengths. He isn't joking, he actually thinks this is true. It's never been said, or shown, in fact quite the opposite. The basis for his feeling this? Mis-understanding what is been shown in the Azshara zone questline. Everything else to him his irrelevant, even when you point out so many things that say otherwise, including actual Dev tweets and quotes.


Afterall, I am only responding to what you guys say. and if this fellow here, like you chooses to say and believe things like that, even if we prove, with quotes, pics, excerpts, you name it Well it is far from the first time, someone has spoken the truth over something, and some others just refuse to accept. Thankfully, it really is just a handful of you.

we can all live in the bubble we want, but as for me, I'd rather accept what is actually the truth.

show me which novel or quest in the game where the current night elf arcane magicians are more powerful than the sindorei or shaldorei arcane magicians.

what is clear is that night elves are the most powerful druids in lore

[Mace]

If I may say, I never intended the Highborne as an allied race, and I would be extremely pleased to 'just' get some new skins/faces or jewels/hairstyles, so yes, I could very much agree that arguing about the lore is not necessary, and the only reason I personally brought up some reference here and there it was to explain why I felt the suggested aesthetic additions would be totally story-consistent rather than Lore-breaking.

All I ever wished for the thread was a simple "I'd like some extra customization that could enforce the roleplay of a Shen'dralar mage - anybody else?" and I just hope Blizzard handles it like they have decided to do with the Wildhammer customization for those who like to roleplay Dwarves who were not born in Ironforge.

So thanks. Honestly. :-)

PLZ BLIZZ, Moarrr fancy hairstyles and girly jewels for my Night Elf mage! :-D

Indeed, this thread isn't about making highborne an allied race or anything like that, but they trigger me so badly when they things like that, and all we want is some extra customisations. I got so angry, because these guys do this sort of thing every time it comes to Night elf fans wanting this, and it's the same people.

Lol, I'm getting triggered again. I'll try not to get derailed. That Rhlor almost got me going again. I've let myself be trolled. We have to wait to see what other options they'll give us.

I think the whole idea of customisations is so you can play your character the way you want. Fortunately for the night elves, the lore provides 4 very distinctive ways they can play their night elf.

• Nature loving Night elf - signified most strongly by the druid
• Strong warrior female or gracious Priestess.
• An arcane wielding master wizard- shown most strongly in the Highborne mage
• An edgy aggressive fel magic super pro - demon hunter

And you can make your night elf to fit all these thanks to the class options. Now we have great customisations for Demon hunters.. but I think better ones for druids but particular Highborne would be the way forward.

You can be as arcane as you want or as foresty as you want, or sword wielding babe

[Rhlor]

Indeed, this thread isn't about making highborne an allied race or anything like that, but they trigger me so badly when they things like that, and all we want is some extra customisations. I got so angry, because these guys do this sort of thing every time it comes to Night elf fans wanting this, and it's the same people.

Lol, I'm getting triggered again. I'll try not to get derailed. That Rhlor almost got me going again. I've let myself be trolled. We have to wait to see what other options they'll give us.

I think the whole idea of customisations is so you can play your character the way you want. Fortunately for the night elves, the lore provides 4 very distinctive ways they can play their night elf.

• Nature loving Night elf - signified most strongly by the druid
• Strong warrior female or gracious Priestess.
• An arcane wielding master wizard- shown most strongly in the Highborne mage
• An edgy aggressive fel magic super pro - demon hunter

And you can make your night elf to fit all these thanks to the class options. Now we have great customisations for Demon hunters.. but I think better ones for druids but particular Highborne would be the way forward.

You can be as arcane as you want or as foresty as you want, or sword wielding babe

please show me where in the lore we see that the Darnasian arcane magicians are more powerful than the sindorei and shaldorei

[Astranea]

please show me where in the lore we see that the Darnasian arcane magicians are more powerful than the sindorei and shaldorei

I guess what that message meant to say is, that a player can roleplay as a powerful Shen'dralar Highborne of ancient Arcane tradition rather than a trainee, if they find this more fun for themselves?

Blizzard acknowledged multiple times that the players are free to roleplay their characters as they like despite of quest text, simply because not all the options compatible with the lore are covered by the starting areas... so if one wants to roleplay a 10,000 year old Shen'dralar they can do that... and it won't even conflict with the starting area quests when the new Exile's Reach zone is up in Shadowlands! :-)

Speaking of which (starting areas), I have had some fun walking around Teldrassil to check on the Highborne mage trainers over there...

...am I crazy or does Mealir use a haircut not available in the character creation screen?

(Admittedly all my Night Elves are females, so I would not be able to tell if the extra option is available through barber shop only)



I also found the text from the Mage trainers in Shadowglen and Dolanaar very striking, as they very clearly acknowledge prejudice towards Night Elf Arcane users and underline how much of the ancient magical arts has gone forgotten in the last 10,000 years.

[Mace]

please show me where in the lore we see that the Darnasian arcane magicians are more powerful than the sindorei and shaldorei

You said night elves, an entire race, were worse and less, and that they are meant to be this way, and that the lore supports this. You didn't specify Darnassian mages. And from previous conversations, I know your only basis for feeling this about them (feeling that you state is fact), is that the new night elf mages, and returned to magecraft Darnassian Highborne you meet in Azshara zone way back in Cataclysm, just a few weeks after they've started re-using magic (some of them for the first time in 10k years, some for the first time ever), are humiliated by a seasoned Blood elf mage - despite the context showing you these are effectively new mages or very out of practice mages at this stage. And so you honestly think remain that way indefinitely.

You've judged ALL Night elves, based on an event in time, not considering for once, that you know, they would improve after more training from the Shen'dralar and others. You don't factor in there are Night elf mages like the Shen'dralar and the Moonguard or Farondis, the latter too actually shown to be very powerful - giving both Nightborne and Naga a beating. Nor do you factor in that the lore tells you about them. Even the untrained or newly trained night elf mage is naturally quite talented, and the lore tells you the Shen'dralar pick out the very gifted in the arcane, training them as Highborne - it is the same night elf race that the most powerful Highborne of history and Night elf mages of history come from [Illidan, Azshara to count a few], that race hasn't changed and hasn't been altered to be less arcane capable - just because the newly trained/return a few weeks into training get out-magicked by a seasoned sorcerer - means that Night elf mages are lesser mages.

It doesn't even factor in the player Night elf mage, who is a great hero doing world conquering things - or have you forgotten, that you must also factor in the player character who becomes very powerful regardless of the race-class combo. Every time my player character Night elf mage kills a blood elf mage or a Nightborne mage can be considered a canon event. This is why you never hear me say that any race is more powerful than another in any thing that they can actually play class wise. Just because of the player character.

[Rhlor]

I guess what that message meant to say is, that a player can roleplay as a powerful Shen'dralar Highborne of ancient Arcane tradition rather than a trainee, if they find this more fun for themselves?

Blizzard stated multiple times that the players should not let the quest text stop them from roleplaying their characters as they like... so if one wants to roleplay a very powerful 10k year old Shen'dralar they can do that... And it won't even conflict with the starting area quests when the new Exile's Reach zone is up in Shadowlands.

Speaking of which. I have had some fun walking around Teldrassil to check on the Highborne mage trainers over there... am I crazy or does Mealir use a haircut not available in the character creation screen?

Admittedly all my Night Elves are females, so I would not be able to tell if the extra option is available through barber shop only.



I also found the text from the Mage trainers in Shadowglen and Dolanaar very striking.

that magician traveled to silvermoon ?? do you have any knowledge about what suramar is ??? ever traveled to dalaran ??? or just see the current state of the current darnassian society ??

what I do remember is how admired a moonguard was when talking to the blood elf mage and his wish to visit silvermoon

and one thing was what could be done in the step when the well of eternity continued to exist, today there is no longer a similar arcane power source, the blood elves have at least the sunwell.

It is not wrong to accept that the Shendrelar were a sect that depended on extracting mana from a demon and that for this reason they did not have the possibility of developing new magic and that their use of arcane powers were outdated

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You said night elves, an entire race, were worse and less, and that they are meant to be this way, and that the lore supports this. You didn't specify Darnassian mages. And from previous conversations, I know your only basis for feeling that is the new night elf mages, and returned to magecraft Darnassian Highborne you meet in Azshara zone way back in Cataclysm, just a few weeks after they've started re-using magic (some of them for the first time in 10k years, some for the first time ever) - despite the context showing you these are effectively new mages or very out of practice mages.

You've judged ALL Night elves, based on an event in time, not considering for once, that you know, they would improve after more training from the Shen'dralar and others. You don't factor in there are Night elf mages like the Shen'dralar and the Moonguard or Farondis, the latter too actually shown to be very powerful - giving both Nightborne and Naga a beating. Nor do you factor in that the lore tells you about them. Even the untrained or newly trained night elf mage is naturally quite talented, and the lore tells you the Shen'dralar pick out the very gifted in the arcane, training them as Highborne - it is the same night elf race that the most powerful Highborne of history and Night elf mages of history come from [Illidan, Azshara to count a few], that race hasn't changed and hasn't been altered to be less arcane capable - just because the newly trained/return a few weeks into training get out-magicked by a seasoned sorcerer - means that Night elf mages are lesser mages.

It doesn't even factor in the player Night elf mage, who is a great hero doing world conquering things - or have you forgotten, that you must also factor in the player character who becomes very powerful regardless of the race-class combo. Every time my player character Night elf mage kills a blood elf mage or a Nightborne mage can be considered a canon event. This is why you never hear me say that any race is more powerful than another in any thing that they can actually play class wise. Just because of the player character.

farondis is not a night elf is an undead, it is as if you told me that nathanos is a human or sylvanas a high elf.

the surviving moonguard, who do not belong to the night elf society we know as darnassian, join thalyssra. one of them even wants to visit silvermoon after talking to the blood elves!

when we say night elves we talk about playable night elves, nightborne in a sense are also night elves.

the nightborne are descendants of the highborne who lived in suramar and the blood elves are descendants of the highborne of zinazshari who joined the rebellion, therefore in these societies they share the same common origin.

the great difference is that the shendrelar were a small sect and did not have a source of arcane magic that allowed them to develop their powers and create a new society with advances in the techniques of arcane magic, their source of magic only allowed them to survive with their outdated methods.

we must accept that each race has its own qualities and defects, except humans who are the best in everything :P

and about the player character and I think the horde players are the ones that dominate competitive pvp

[Astranea]

that magician traveled to silvermoon ?? do you have any knowledge about what suramar is ??? ever traveled to dalaran ??? or just see the current state of the current darnassian society ??

what I do remember is how admired a moonguard was when talking to the blood elf mage and his wish to visit silvermoon

and one thing was what could be done in the step when the well of eternity continued to exist, today there is no longer a similar arcane power source, the blood elves have at least the sunwell.

It is not wrong to accept that the Shendrelar were a sect that depended on extracting mana from a demon and that for this reason they did not have the possibility of developing new magic and that their use of arcane powers were outdated

I am very sorry, but I seriously do not quite understand what we are arguing about. Where have I ever talked about Silvermoon and Dalaran? Where have I ever denied that the Shen'dralar are a minority?

I think there may have been a huge misunderstanding. :-) I mean heck, I have just brought you two in-game examples of Highborne mage trainers openly stating that the current level of Night Elf magic is far inferior of that of the pre-sundering civilization, and that their arts are watched upon with contempt by their own people... how could I agree more with you? :-P

I was just trying to say that we are not here to debate on how a player may or may not choose to roleplay their own character in their head, considering all players are meant to be their faction's Heroes...

This thread was originally meant to discuss about new skin colors, faces, hairstyles and jewels for the Night Elves. :-)

But if you want me to talk about the lore... then sure, I can state my position. As far as I am concerned, while the Highborne have been reinstated and may even be some hundreds (which could be a huge number in percentage after the burning of Teldrassil, duh) they are still a minority and they are still watched with prejudice. As I recall, following the War of the Ancients the Night Elves have been led by Malfurion, who reviled Queen Azshara's former servants and forbade the use of Arcane magic on pain of death. Fortunately such conviction was turned into exile... but that being the origin of the High Elves and then Blood Elves, I think it is undeniable that the Arcane has been and still is a fundamental trait to their identity, while the ban has brought the Night Elves civilization to be steered towards the druidic path. Is that ALL there has ever been and could be to the Night Elves? Of course not - but it remains one of their most prominent traits, and one they are indisputable leaders in.

Luckily for the magic lovers in Cataclysm the 10,000 years ban on the Arcane arts has been lifted, but there are still plenty of references about it in game, like the one quest with Shandris Feathermoon in Feralas where she says it would be her duty to execute the Highborne mage Estulan under the Darnassian law, were it not for Lady Tyrande's recent mercy towards his kind.

So yes - while I do love the Night Elves, and I would like some more skin colors, and I feel entitled to roleplay a Night Elf mage as a Shen'dralar if I like that (mind you, I also have a priest, and a druid, and a demon hunter of course), I also find it perfectly normal to state that despite of belonging to their ancient heritage, the Arcane arts have only recently returned as a complement to their culture, and I am therefore also totally fine acknowledging the Blood Elves and the Nightborne being the current masters of the Arcane arts.

Could Blizzard change this? They write the story, and can do with it as it pleases them most... after over a decade, I am sure I shall keep playing whatever they do with it. ;-)

Should they? I honestly see no need for that, and doubt they ever will, but who knows, I may always be surprised.

For instance, I am curious to see if they ever give the Night Elves a new capital.

But again, this is not what I had ever intended for this thread to be about.

I mean, seriously, people... I just wanted some jewels and fancier hairstyles for my mage girl... but now I am beginning to regret I ever dared say so... :-P

P.S. I also have a Blood Elf Demon Hunter, a Blood Elf mage, a Blood Elf paladin, and a Nightborne mage. Just saying... and yes, I suppose that makes me an elf junkie. ^^

[Mace]

that magician traveled to silvermoon ?? do you have any knowledge about what suramar is ??? ever traveled to dalaran ??? or just see the current state of the current darnassian society ??

what I do remember is how admired a moonguard was when talking to the blood elf mage and his wish to visit silvermoon

and one thing was what could be done in the step when the well of eternity continued to exist, today there is no longer a similar arcane power source, the blood elves have at least the sunwell.

It is not wrong to accept that the Shendrelar were a sect that depended on extracting mana from a demon and that for this reason they did not have the possibility of developing new magic and that their use of arcane powers were outdated

Rhlor, don't change strands, we are not talking about the relative state of their societies, but the magical abilities or capabilities of the actual race - as per your comment. Dragons, live in caves, not magical wonder cities, does that mean they're inferior magically?

Some humans live in Stormwind, some in Dalaran, some in Karazhan (or did), does that mean the mages in Stormwind or Karazhan just vastly inferior to Dalaran because it's a better city? So I guess when Dalaran was in ruins they were inferior then, but now they're superior??

So when your great city gets destroyed by evil invading first, this somehow makes your wizards and experts less experts ocompared to those whose cities are not. In this particular case,, the people who left to confront the biggest threat, succeeded and din't live in a bubble literally, , remaining unchanged full of their same original potential and power all of a sudden have it less because their kin who bubbled up their shared city's main section that didn't get destroyed, now emerge and are therefore much better because their city is better.

I bet you're one of those people who thinks, that your country is superior to another because they have better cities, never factoring what the calibre of the people are, what their history is, to see if they'd ever been great, their situation to see why they might not be making progress, and honestly think about their potential, whether they could be great.

No, you just see oo, we have civilization and cities, we are superior, you're inferior. Am I right?

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farondis is not a night elf is an undead, it is as if you told me that nathanos is a human or sylvanas a high elf.

He is Night elven, and he is not the only example I gave, I gave a few.

the surviving moonguard, who do not belong to the night elf society we know as darnassian, join thalyssra. one of them even wants to visit silvermoon after talking to the blood elves!

When we say night elves we talk about playable night elves, nightborne in a sense are also night elves.

You should specify, when you say Night elves, you are talking about an entire race. If you mean just one group, say Darnassians, it's been 16 years since blizzard showed the Darnassians are not the only Night elves around. And they have been shown other groups constantly every time they go back to them.

the nightborne are descendants of the highborne who lived in suramar and the blood elves are descendants of the highborne of zinazshari who joined the rebellion, therefore in these societies they share the same common origin.
E]

Wrong again, the Nightborne ARE not descendants of the Highborne, they ARE the Night elves carried on, some ARE Highborne (not descedants) and others various castes of other Night elven sects.

I think you are so use to think of them as purple blood elves, you forget they are not.

the great difference is that the shendrelar were a small sect and did not have a source of arcane magic that allowed them to develop their powers and create a new society with advances in the techniques of arcane magic, their source of magic only allowed them to survive with their outdated methods.

Given that it was Darnassian Night elven Highborne who had returned to magecraft that were using the outdated methods you speak of, a few weeks after picking up their art, nonetheless, so obviously out of practice and it showed, not the Shen'dralar methods, your point isn't correct friend.

we must accept that each race has its own qualities and defects, except humans who are the best in everything :P

We must, but strength with the arcane is not one of the Night elf races defects.. again you are referring to a group as the whole race, and you forget that the group are still Night elves too, having the same arcane potential and talent as any other group. You my friend are classic case we were talking of earlier, the ones who want their faction group to be the best (it takes one to know one), and while I want night elves to be amazing, you don't see me saying blood elves are terrible rangers, or not as good as night elves, or blood elf priests are not as capable as Night elves etc.

I have largely kept my focus on showing the Night elves and what they are good at as shown in the lore. But as I told Tharivor, you can live in a self created bubble and believe what ever you want to believe, I on the other hand, actually wan to believe what is true. I don't spend all that time reading info and exploring to get it wrong. And if someone can demonstrate to me that I'm wrong about something, then I correct my view.

Warcraft is a dynamic world, it changes, things develop and change, others don't, we take it as it comes. Your life doesn't depend on you believing me, I acknowledge I can't make you believe. I'm not even trying. I am just giving you the courtesy of replying to you.

and about the player character and I think the horde players are the ones that dominate competitive pvp

By implications the horde is better than the alliance at everything, because in your mind the horde players dominate pvp. So my night elf mage beating blood elf and Nightborne mages all the times means nothing too.

See, this is all about you thinking your faction is superior and above everyone else. been there man (takes one to know one).

[Rhlor]

I am very sorry, but I seriously do not quite understand what we are arguing about. Where have I ever talked about Silvermoon and Dalaran? Where have I ever denied that the Shen'dralar are a minority?

I think there may have been a huge misunderstanding. :-) I mean heck, I have just brought you two in-game examples of Highborne mage trainers openly stating that the current level of Night Elf magic is far inferior of that of the pre-sundering civilization, and that their arts are watched upon with contempt by their own people... how could I agree more with you? :-P

I was just trying to say that we are not here to debate on how a player may or may not choose to roleplay their own character in their head, considering all players are meant to be their faction's Heroes...

This thread was originally meant to discuss about new skin colors, faces, hairstyles and jewels for the Night Elves. :-)

But if you want me to talk about the lore... then sure, I can state my position. As far as I am concerned, while the Highborne have been reinstated and may even be some hundreds (which could be a huge number in percentage after the burning of Teldrassil, duh) they are still a minority and they are still watched with prejudice. As I recall, following the War of the Ancients the Night Elves have been led by Malfurion, who reviled Queen Azshara's former servants and forbade the use of Arcane magic on pain of death. Fortunately such conviction was turned into exile... but that being the origin of the High Elves and then Blood Elves, I think it is undeniable that the Arcane has been and still is a fundamental trait to their identity, while the ban has brought the Night Elves civilization to be steered towards the druidic path. Is that ALL there has ever been and could be to the Night Elves? Of course not - but it remains their most prominent trait, and one they are indisputable leaders in.

Luckily for the magic lovers in Cataclysm the 10,000 years ban on the Arcane arts has been lifted, but there are still plenty of references about it in game, like the one quest with Shandris Feathermoon in Feralas where she says it would be her duty to execute the Highborne mage Estulan under the law, were it not for Lady Tyrande's recent mercy towards his kind.

So yes - while I do love the Night Elves, and I would like some more skin colors, and I feel entitled to roleplay a Night Elf mage as a Shen'dralar if I like that (mind you, I also have a priest, and a druid, and a demon hunter of course), I also find it perfectly normal to state that despite of belonging to their ancient heritage, the Arcane arts have only recently returned as a complement to their culture, and I am therefore also totally happy to acknowledge the Blood Elves and the Nightborne being the current masters of the Arcane arts.

Could Blizzard change this? They write the story, and can do with it as it pleases them most... after over a decade, I am sure I shall keep playing whatever they do with it. ;-)

Should they? I honestly see no need for that, and doubt they ever will, but who knows, I may always be surprised.

For instance, I am curious to see if they ever give the Night Elves a new capital.

But again, this is not what I had ever intended for this thread to be about.

I mean, seriously, people... I just wanted some jewels and fancier hairstyles for my mage girl... but now I am beginning to regret I ever dared say so... :-P

P.S. I also have a Blood Elf Demon Hunter, a Blood Elf mage, a Blood Elf paladin, and a Nightborne mage. Just saying... and yes, I suppose that makes me an elf junkie. ^^

I apologize maybe I misunderstood. I think the highborne customization features should be implemented, what I disagree about is thinking that highborne (shendrelar) can have the same skill level in arcane magic as sindorei or shaldorei

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@Mace

farondis is an undead like lilian voss is not a human she is an undead.

The only thing I am saying is that it is normal for societies focused on arcane magic like the nightborne and the sindorei to be better at using arcane magic than the alliance night elves!

In the same way that I recognize that it is normal that a society as influenced by nature as that of the Darnassian elves have the best druids. I am sure that the draenei have the best priests.

[Mace]

I am very sorry, but I seriously do not quite understand what we are arguing about. Where have I ever talked about Silvermoon and Dalaran? Where have I ever denied that the Shen'dralar are a minority?

I appreciate him as a human being, but he is like this when he says his stuff, sometimes I wonder if he has actually proeperly understood what the person has said, or has actually considered exactly what he has written might actually imply.

I usually don't respond to his incorrect statements, it's just misleading, and he doesn't often change his mind, even when he is wrong. I think sometimes he is not actually writing correctly what he means to say, but we are responding to what he has actually said, and he is not quite getting that? I honestly have tried to understand, I gave up after a while.

STill appreciate him though, and when he says things I agre on, I make sure I let him know that I do. I do that with everyone though. Just becaue I get angry at what they say, doesn't mean I won't be fair or agree when they say something I do think or feel is correct.

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farondis is an undead like lilian voss is not a human she is an undead.

The only thing I am saying is that it is normal for societies focused on arcane magic like the nightborne and the sindorei to be better at using arcane magic than the alliance night elves!

In the same way that I recognize that it is normal that a society as influenced by nature as that of the Darnassian elves have the best druids. I am sure that the draenei have the best priests.

Rhlor, the state of the society isn't necessary an indication of their prowress or capability. You can live in a cave and be a great wizard. So can your race if this is what the lore tells you about them.

if half the night elves put off using arcane magic for 1 year, 10 years, or 10,000 years, it doesn't make their half any less talented or capable of using arcane magic than the other half who did not, whether the other half had lost most of their members through murder, or fed on arcane energy for food till it changed them. All it means is that the ones who did not use it are just out of practice from a society point of view.

individually any one of them or a group of them can arise and become the next Azshara , or Illidan, or Farondis, or Evenshade etc etc, If they start practising again. And the ones who start, are not going to be the best a few weeks after they start, no matter how talented they are, or can be.

but you're not seeing that are you, because you don't want to. You want to think the horde elf is superior, even though that's not the picture being painted or the story being told. So you interprete one event at a specific point in time as evidence, when no other supports this, and you have examples that prove to the contrary, plus knowing the origin of the race itself. Yet you still draw that conclusion.