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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I appreciate him as a human being, but he is like this when he says his stuff, sometimes I wonder if he has actually proeperly understood what the person has said, or has actually considered exactly what he has written might actually imply.

    I usually don't respond to his incorrect statements, it's just misleading, and he doesn't often change his mind, even when he is wrong. I think sometimes he is not actually writing correctly what he means to say, but we are responding to what he has actually said, and he is not quite getting that? I honestly have tried to understand, I gave up after a while.

    STill appreciate him though, and when he says things I agre on, I make sure I let him know that I do. I do that with everyone though. Just becaue I get angry at what they say, doesn't mean I won't be fair or agree when they say something I do think or feel is correct.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Rhlor, the state of the society isn't necessary an indication of their prowress or capability. You can live in a cave and be a great wizard. So can your race if this is what the lore tells you about them.

    if half the night elves put off using arcane magic for 1 year, 10 years, or 10,000 years, it doesn't make their half any less talented or capable of using arcane magic than the other half who did not, whether the other half had lost most of their members through murder, or fed on arcane energy for food till it changed them. All it means is that the ones who did not use it are just out of practice from a society point of view.

    individually any one of them or a group of them can arise and become the next Azshara , or Illidan, or Farondis, or Evenshade etc etc, If they start practising again. And the ones who start, are not going to be the best a few weeks after they start, no matter how talented they are, or can be.

    but you're not seeing that are you, because you don't want to. You want to think the horde elf is superior, even though that's not the picture being painted or the story being told. So you interprete one event at a specific point in time as evidence, when no other supports this, and you have examples that prove to the contrary, plus knowing the origin of the race itself. Yet you still draw that conclusion.
    Of course I think that as a society the elves of the horde are better at arcane magic than the night elves of the alliance! and it is because they are societies focused on arcane magic! the alliance's night elves banned arcane magic for 10,000 years and the shendrelars are a small sect that failed to develop new advances in magic! because they didn't have a magic source like sunwell or nightwell



    but i think night elves are better in other things! mainly in what is druidism and harmony with nature!

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    Of course I think that as a society the elves of the horde are better at arcane magic than the night elves of the alliance! and it is because they are societies focused on arcane magic! the alliance's night elves banned arcane magic for 10,000 years and the shendrelars are a small sect that failed to develop new advances in magic! because they didn't have a magic source like sunwell or nightwell



    but i think night elves are better in other things! mainly in what is druidism and harmony with nature!
    Now that is much better. You have articulated what you mean to say. And I agree with all but the last sentence on the Shen'dralar - you aren't shown their research and developments, because you meet them in their city in a ruined state, but they're still fanatically researching and studying (it seems clearly a case of blizzard not going into the details visually, but it is mentioned in the texts, so you take it at its word). Indeed the Blood elven and Nightborne societies are superior arcane magic wise. This is a very different statement than saying the entire race in and of themselves or its individuals are superior at magic. That really depends on the genetic make up, and the individual or group you are talking about.

    How I rate the various races and groups Magically.
    • Racially, when it come to the arcane natural capability inherent i.e. biologically/genetically and potentially, it's Nightborne > Night elf > Void Elf > Blood elf.
    • As the various groups and organisation goes, imo for arcane combat It's Moonguard > Blood elves > Nightborne > Shen'dralar/Darnassians > Void elves
    • For Magical Aptitude and research & development capability it goes: Shen'dralar > Void elves > Blood Elves > Nightborne
    • For Magical knowledge accumulated it goes Shen'dralar = Nightborne > Void Elf > Blood Elf
    • For raw natural magical power it's Nightborne (with Nightwell) > Void elf > Nightborne (if I suspect they benefit from WoE like NElves) > Night Elf > Blood Elf


    And that is at this moment in time. And the gaps between them aren't that big. I didn't add the high elves, because I'd then have to make a decision on the various groups, the Silver Covenant, and the Outland Allerian Stronghold group, the Dalaran residents, and there is just not enough information to say. Only the Silver Covenant has been active in combat, and we see them as capable as the blood el sun Reavers in Ice Crown. We can also assume that in Dalaran they've been continuing to study magic, as that is what that scity is all about, even though it hasn't been explicitly stated. however we haven't been show their progress, while the blood elves have claimed some powerful magics in places like Mists with the anima golem. Saying that, a lot of magical knowledge comes to Dalarn, from blood elves, night elves, and now Nightborne, it is likely that the high elves are pretty much as up to date as any other elf, but we don't really know.
    Last edited by Mace; 2020-04-18 at 01:50 AM.

  3. #423
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Holy shit this going to drag on like High Elf Official Megathread 2.0
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Holy shit this going to drag on like High Elf Official Megathread 2.0
    Thats what I am saying the whole time.

    Some people are just drags... basement kids.

    This and the high elf thread should be merged tbh, the ideals and goals are exactly the same and it also pisses off alot of people.

    Voting to merge this with the high elf thread.

    Call it: the great whiny high(borne) elf 2.0.
    Mace as their dominant leader.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2020-04-18 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #425
    The Patient Astranea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Holy shit this going to drag on like High Elf Official Megathread 2.0
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    This and the high elf thread should be merged tbh, the ideals and goals are exactly the same
    I disagree about a merger, and it saddens me that you would suggest that, although I completely understand why you have, despite of my own ideals and goals being totally different.

    All I ever wanted for this thread was to discuss new aesthetic customization for the Night Elves which I felt could fit their Lore rather than break it, and tried to explain why.

    In short, my own take is that Blizzard can implement a few new skin colors, jewels and haircuts to the Night Elves without altering or breaking the Night Elves faction.

    These would support the fantasy of being of a Shen'dralar for those who desire to roleplay a 10,000 years old arcane mage rather than one of their apprentices, but would also very easily fit any Night Elf character when mixed and matched randomly with other options. Just think of the priestesses, for instance. Tyrande herself seems to have a liking for jewelry.

    As a fan, I made a wishlist of things I would have liked for my Night Elves characters to see if somebody else wished the same or had related ideas, and I certainly never meant to start an argument about mastery of the Arcane arts!

    So back to the proper subject of customization - would these need to be NAMED Highborne options? Of course no, not at all! When a few compatible options are offered, the fans who are interested in the specific Lore will know to recognize and use them - as they are already doing now, picking what they can within the limited choices available.

    And lastly, since I have not had a chance to verify this, would anybody be so kind to tell me if Mealir here uses a haircut not normally available to the Night Elf males? The option does not seem to be in the character creation screen, but maybe it is available through the barber?

    Admittedly all of my elves are females, and I am lazy about rolling an extra male Nelf just to run it to the barber shop for an extra test. ^^



    (P.S. Mind you, if Arcane Mastery is all you care about, my personal take has been stated here. I have agreed with @Rhlor, so you may also be pleased/surprised to find out that I also agree with you. But again, that is NOT what this thread was ever meant to be about. I really honestly just voice for some simple aesthetic additions as such.)
    Last edited by Astranea; 2020-04-18 at 10:28 AM.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    n argument about mastery of the Arcane arts!

    So back to the proper subject of customization - would these need to be NAMED Highborne options? Of course no, not at all! When a few compatible options are offered, the fans who are interested in the specific Lore will know to recognize and use them - as they are already doing now, picking what they can within the limited choices available.

    And lastly, since I have not had a chance to verify this, would anybody be so kind to tell me if Mealir here uses a haircut not normally available to the Night Elf males? The option does not seem to be in the character creation screen, but maybe it is available through the barber?
    I think that gu y is just the head piece that alters the hairstyle, ther ear a few hats like that, a i think some blizzard changed not to, bu others still do if you wear them.

  7. #427
    The Patient Astranea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I think that guy is just the head piece that alters the hairstyle, there are a few hats like that, a i think some blizzard changed not to, but others still do if you wear them.
    Your comment made me defeat the laziness of rolling a nelf male to drag him to Stormwind for a barber test. :-)

    The outcome is that, indeed, as I suspected, the specific haircut is not available from the barber.

    However, the same headpiece does not appear to be clipping the hair and changing the hairstyle for the character models, contrary to what you suggested may be happening with the mage trainer NPC. You can see that here:



    So the neatly trimmed haircut Maelir is using would be a nice addition to the Night Elf customizations!

    Last edited by Astranea; 2020-04-18 at 11:57 AM.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Holy shit this going to drag on like High Elf Official Megathread 2.0
    It doesn't have to, if people just stop. It's easy to get carried away.

    I'll extend the olive branch. Listen Team "Great Kaldorei" [Mace, Astranea, Ravenmoon, Ardenaso, fossilfree and all the others (can't be bothered to search the post and list everyone who likes and support this -which i know is the majority on this topic, because it's your thread) - Olive branch. I don't particularly like night elves, so you don't have to listen to my opinion. For my part in this, sorry, I don't even disagree with most of what Mace says, or Ravenmoon - i do read the long posts - however I will call out b/s when I see it. If I'm wrong, and you show me, I'll admit it, and I have several times.

    However, a little advise.
    • You don't have to answer EVERYTHING you disagree with, and don't have to do it again and again, maybe it's cos you guys are young or just proud or both [it seems you are more concerned with being right]. If someone doesn't bother to read your post, that's on them, not you, you drag everyone into it if you then write lots of essays repeat exactly what you've said before, to a person who's not even reading. You are wasting your time and everyone elses
    .

    • Also, we're not all going to agree on anything, whether we are wrong or right, it would take an essay that everyon e has to look at carefully, and this is not school or work, no one is going to do that.

    • Short sentences, to the point, a few pics etc. And Private Message is your friend.


    • Look, I can barely stand Nightborne as it is, and the only alliance toon I could stomach playing were void elves, but I do listen to the lore, because a good part of Night elf lore informs blood elf lore, even if it is Night elf lore, it interests us cause cos BElves come from NElves, just like Zandalari lore is always going to interest Darkspears - even when the Zandalari were an enemy troll group.


    Saying that, I like Elf discussions, so you will often see me on Nelf and BElf threads, and I'm sure I can give my opinion on the Night Elf, even if you don't take it srsly b/c it's not my race.

    If you feel Highborne customisation would make you better, than good luck, hope you do. I always thought night elf models needed an overhaul. I thought the nightborne were that overhaul, at least body wise, but then I saw their faces and realised blizzard wants you uglier. I was shocked they gave to the horde, I would have preferred Lightforged Draenei to be fair, having a Night elf is just basically more of a blood elf but with more trees and night things silver/purple ctieis in similar if different styles.

    Having Lightforged Draenei, would have given us a chance to have something really different, and truly advanced. While I prefer the Thalassian model over it, I feel it would have been a better choice by far, and they could have been good friends with the blood elves via the light and magic - and a useful bridge between the factions should blizzard ever work on that possibility.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    Could be, I guess, although... your comment made me defeat my laziness about rolling a nelf male, and I have dragged him to Stormwind for a test.

    The outcome is that, indeed, the specific haircut is not available from the barber.

    However, it also does not appear to be clipping the hair and changing hairstyle for the character models, contrary to what would appear to happen with the NPC.

    So the haircut with very short trimmed hair Maelir is wearing would be a nice addition to the Night Elf customizations.
    I think some of them do, and some of them don't, there was a time people complained, so blizz may have given different versions, or changed that one entirely to not clip the hair and alter the head hairstyle.

    Would need to do more research. And I don't want to roll a Night elf

  9. #429
    The Patient Astranea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Holy shit this going to drag on like High Elf Official Megathread 2.0
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    It doesn't have to, if people just stop.
    THIS. Honestly. Please.

    So once more... all I ever wanted for this thread was to discuss new aesthetic features for the Night Elves... so if we could please try and focus on something as frivolous such as customization, we won't risk that the mods close it. ^^

    Thank you for your understanding. :-)

    So here I go again. Since I expect the color of the tattoos be independent from the hair color when Shadowlands hit...

    How would you feel about the option of WHITE markings for the Night Elves?

    Hardly lore-breaking, yet possibly appealing looks on both lighter and darker skin tones. Imho that is.

    Last edited by Astranea; 2020-04-18 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    It doesn't have to, if people just stop. It's easy to get carried away.

    I'll extend the olive branch. Listen Team "Great Kaldorei" [Mace, Astranea, Ravenmoon, Ardenaso, fossilfree and all the others (can't be bothered to search the post and list everyone who likes and support this -which i know is the majority on this topic, because it's your thread) - Olive branch. I don't particularly like night elves, so you don't have to listen to my opinion. For my part in this, sorry, I don't even disagree with most of what Mace says, or Ravenmoon - i do read the long posts - however I will call out b/s when I see it. If I'm wrong, and you show me, I'll admit it, and I have several times.

    However, a little advise.
    • You don't have to answer EVERYTHING you disagree with, and don't have to do it again and again, maybe it's cos you guys are young or just proud or both [it seems you are more concerned with being right]. If someone doesn't bother to read your post, that's on them, not you, you drag everyone into it if you then write lots of essays repeat exactly what you've said before, to a person who's not even reading. You are wasting your time and everyone elses
    .

    • Also, we're not all going to agree on anything, whether we are wrong or right, it would take an essay that everyon e has to look at carefully, and this is not school or work, no one is going to do that.

    • Short sentences, to the point, a few pics etc. And Private Message is your friend.


    • Look, I can barely stand Nightborne as it is, and the only alliance toon I could stomach playing were void elves, but I do listen to the lore, because a good part of Night elf lore informs blood elf lore, even if it is Night elf lore, it interests us cause cos BElves come from NElves, just like Zandalari lore is always going to interest Darkspears - even when the Zandalari were an enemy troll group.


    Saying that, I like Elf discussions, so you will often see me on Nelf and BElf threads, and I'm sure I can give my opinion on the Night Elf, even if you don't take it srsly b/c it's not my race.

    If you feel Highborne customisation would make you better, than good luck, hope you do. I always thought night elf models needed an overhaul. I thought the nightborne were that overhaul, at least body wise, but then I saw their faces and realised blizzard wants you uglier. I was shocked they gave to the horde, I would have preferred Lightforged Draenei to be fair, having a Night elf is just basically more of a blood elf but with more trees and night things silver/purple ctieis in similar if different styles.

    Having Lightforged Draenei, would have given us a chance to have something really different, and truly advanced. While I prefer the Thalassian model over it, I feel it would have been a better choice by far, and they could have been good friends with the blood elves via the light and magic - and a useful bridge between the factions should blizzard ever work on that possibility.
    Olive branch accepted, perhaps I over reacted a little. I do react angrily to people trying to undermine or subvert. For my part in contributing to this which did detract from the subject matter, I am sorry - however such are forum debates when people feel passionate about things.

    Many of the same issues are present in many races, but only elves seem to cause reaction. No one has a problem with any of the other sub races reflecting the core or has a go at anyone suggesting the core highlight more some of the areas that the sub-race show quite well, especially when it comes to customisation, I felt it was unfair , and got a little carried away. Let's focus on the customisation options from now on.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    THIS. Honestly. (And thanks)

    So once more... all I ever wanted for this thread was to discuss new aesthetic features for the Night Elves... so if we could please try and focus on something as frivolous such as customization, we won't risk that the mods close the thread. ^^

    Thank you for your understanding. :-)

    So here I go again. Since I expect the color of the tattoos be independent from the hair color when Shadowlands hit...

    How would you feel about the option of WHITE markings for the Night Elves?

    Hardly lore-breaking, yet possibly appealing looks on both lighter and darker skin tones. Imho that is.
    Ooo, that looks pretty cool too. like the arcanised version of the paint mask. THe other one is nice too, some wouldn't like it, some would love it, but that's why we have different options right? Have you tried the "star" freckles suggestion? That could also be interesting, and different. maybe on the cheeks and jaw - just trying to be creative and contribute positively.

    I toyed with the idea of blood elf mages having some sort of fire burn glow marks on them. That could look pretty cool, help make them feel less High elfy, and more Blood elfy, like a kick ass elite mage secret task force, where they brand themselves. Sort of like rogues, they strike from the shadows, via mage invisibility, , they're great with weaons too, like the Nightborne/Night elf spell blades. but they're mages. Bloodfury or Sunfury would be a good name for the group.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Holy shit this going to drag on like High Elf Official Megathread 2.0
    I had to laugh at this because I was thinking much the same thing yesterday! I understand the passion on one level, but overall, I'm puzzled by it. I very much liked the idea that started this thread: customization, but it's diverged strongly from that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    ...So here I go again. Since I expect the color of the tattoos be independent from the hair color when Shadowlands hit...

    How would you feel about the option of WHITE markings for the Night Elves?

    Hardly lore-breaking, yet possibly appealing looks on both lighter and darker skin tones. Imho that is...
    I'd love that for some of my characters. Thanks for the image, too. Looks awesome.

  13. #433
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    I had to laugh at this because I was thinking much the same thing yesterday! I understand the passion on one level, but overall, I'm puzzled by it. I very much liked the idea that started this thread: customization, but it's diverged strongly from that.
    Literally just do with the Night Elves having Highborne customizations and just be done with it and now it's paragraphs of paragraphs of mental gymnastics of why they can't
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Olive branch accepted, perhaps I over reacted a little. I do react angrily to people trying to undermine or subvert. For my part in contributing to this which did detract from the subject matter, I am sorry - however such are forum debates when people feel passionate about things.

    Many of the same issues are present in many races, but only elves seem to cause reaction. No one has a problem with any of the other sub races reflecting the core or has a go at anyone suggesting the core highlight more some of the areas that the sub-race show quite well, especially when it comes to customisation, I felt it was unfair , and got a little carried away. Let's focus on the customisation options from now on.
    A little? A bit? You truly are English aren't you. Kings of understatement. But, this is amstice.

    I'm glad you are realising you over reacted.. All I was saying is that the nightborne are pretty much that Highborne you are wanting, and that it's already there, are you sure you want the same thing.
    • i)I wasn't saying you can't have the same or similar
    • ii)I wasn't saying you shouldn't have
    • iii)I wasn't saying Night elf fans don't have a right to have it.


    You over reacted heavily. And pulled others like raven into it. Even accusing Tharivor of trying to stop you - which isn't what he was saying either.

    Look we get it, and know blizzard share things amongst the races, the Nightborne even being on the horde is blizzard sharing the night elf race, so you sharing things found in the Nightborne on the Night elf, well no one is saying that is wrong or bad or doesn't belong there, just pointing out it's there on the horde. And it's not a crime for some to jealously want it there only. It's not their decision, and it's not a matter of whether they have a right to it or not. Theydo have a right to want to be the only special snowflake, and you have a right to want what's in your lore. No need to get angry over it.
    Blizzard have shifted their policy to greater customisations, allowing races to better reflect a lot more of what they have in their lore kit. Now Highborne is definitely part of the lore kit for the Night elves, so you'd likely get your wish.

    • But Highborne aren't a huge force amongst the Darnassians (I didn't say night elf race, just Darnassians) -
    • Not saying they aren't important there either,
    • Not saying the arcane isn't a core part of night elves, -


    Just saying the Highborne section isn't large currently (and yes, it was growing when blizz last showed it - don't know how much.
    Didn't say it wasn't significant either. I also agree with you that being small doesn't mean it isn't relevant or important or influential. It was a good point.


    You get me now?
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-04-18 at 02:29 PM.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    I'd love that for some of my characters. Thanks for the image, too. Looks awesome.
    Yes, it does look pretty nice, I like Enigmaddicts suggestion too. And yes I do realise not all night elves are that bothered or wanting Highborne stuff, I did get a bit carried away.

  16. #436
    @Mace
    I like night elves maybe for different reasons why other people like them! I see them as wood elves (remember that at least culturally Legolas was a wood elf for example). And perhaps that is why I personally highlight its most druidic side and that is that it is a society governed by Malfurion and the priestesses of Elune who are largely what we define as rangers!! I do not deny that the night elves of the alliance have a small arcane side. But that does not configure the essence of their society or their way of life. the small sect of the shen'dralar joined a society a few years ago that banned magic for 10,000 years.

    Regarding customization, I totally agree, more customization is always better

    About farondis if you want to believe that it is a night elf and not an undead is fine. There are very intense discussions about the undead as to whether they are a new race or whether it is a disease, whether there is a cure or permanent whether undeads have rights to land they owned when they were alive or whether the living are the legitimate heirs.

    moonguard only a very few survivors remained and joined the nightborne!

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Ooo, that looks pretty cool too. like the arcanised version of the paint mask. THe other one is nice too, some wouldn't like it, some would love it, but that's why we have different options right? Have you tried the "star" freckles suggestion? That could also be interesting, and different. maybe on the cheeks and jaw - just trying to be creative and contribute positively.

    I toyed with the idea of blood elf mages having some sort of fire burn glow marks on them. That could look pretty cool, help make them feel less High elfy, and more Blood elfy, like a kick ass elite mage secret task force, where they brand themselves. Sort of like rogues, they strike from the shadows, via mage invisibility, , they're great with weaons too, like the Nightborne/Night elf spell blades. but they're mages. Bloodfury or Sunfury would be a good name for the group.
    I really like this, both the one you suggested for Night elves and the blood elf one. I think little details like that been different from Nightborne and for the blood elves being a bit distinctive from the ordinary High elf - I think are important and acceptable.

    Because Nightborne are Highborne society shown properly, I think it is fitting that Night elf highborne would draw at least one thing from them, like their pose. I'm thinking blizzard could alter the model pose for every one who selects the arcane markings/tattoos/star stuff - or just add a stance tab similar to how orcs get a posture tab. They could also make these neck adjustments I posted earlier..






    So the posture tab would alter the neck alignment and the standing position. Giving players a choice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    A little? A bit? You truly are English aren't you. Kings of understatement. But, this is amstice.

    I'm glad you are realising you over reacted.. All I was saying is that the nightborne are pretty much that Highborne you are wanting, and that it's already there, are you sure you want the same thing.
    • i)I wasn't saying you can't have the same or similar
    • ii)I wasn't saying you shouldn't have
    • iii)I wasn't saying Night elf fans don't have a right to have it.


    You over reacted heavily. And pulled others like raven into it. Even accusing Tharivor of trying to stop you - which isn't what he was saying either.

    Look we get it, and know blizzard share things amongst the races, the Nightborne even being on the horde is blizzard sharing the night elf race, so you sharing things found in the Nightborne on the Night elf, well no one is saying that is wrong or bad or doesn't belong there, just pointing out it's there on the horde. And it's not a crime for some to jealously want it there only. It's not their decision, and it's not a matter of whether they have a right to it or not. Theydo have a right to want to be the only special snowflake, and you have a right to want what's in your lore. No need to get angry over it.
    Blizzard have shifted their policy to greater customisations, allowing races to better reflect a lot more of what they have in their lore kit. Now Highborne is definitely part of the lore kit for the Night elves, so you'd likely get your wish.

    • But Highborne aren't a huge force amongst the Darnassians (I didn't say night elf race, just Darnassians) -
    • Not saying they aren't important there either,
    • Not saying the arcane isn't a core part of night elves, -


    Just saying the Highborne section isn't large currently (and yes, it was growing when blizz last showed it - don't know how much.
    Didn't say it wasn't significant either. I also agree with you that being small doesn't mean it isn't relevant or important or influential. It was a good point.


    You get me now?
    Yeh , yeh fair enough. You didn't have to list so many points.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    @Mace
    I like night elves maybe for different reasons why other people like them! I see them as wood elves (remember that at least culturally Legolas was a wood elf for example). And perhaps that is why I personally highlight its most druidic side and that is that it is a society governed by Malfurion and the priestesses of Elune who are largely what we define as rangers!! I do not deny that the night elves of the alliance have a small arcane side. But that does not configure the essence of their society or their way of life. the small sect of the shen'dralar joined a society a few years ago that banned magic for 10,000 years.

    Regarding customization, I totally agree, more customization is always better

    About farondis if you want to believe that it is a night elf and not an undead is fine. There are very intense discussions about the undead as to whether they are a new race or whether it is a disease, whether there is a cure or permanent whether undeads have rights to land they owned when they were alive or whether the living are the legitimate heirs.

    moonguard only a very few survivors remained and joined the nightborne!
    Fair enough, you see them as wood elves, I see them as a fusion of dark elf and wood elf, with many bits. They may not be your race of elves, but I accept you are entitled to view them that way, because they do have a wood elf bit. I won't argue with you that the dark elf bit is a reality and also a part of the race, and the Darnassian group, and even though it is smaller (I don't think it is that small), it's not a new thing, the Darnassians have a large arcane history from the pre-sundering era of the Night elves, being a smaller section now doesn't make them more wood elves than dark elf, it's just the current stage they are in.

    Ways to Roleplay That Fit the Lore
    • You can roleplay a Darnassian Highborne from 10k years ago, that put off arcane magic agreeing with the ban, and picked it up again, you are one of those genius talented Highborne and once you got a bit of practise, you were back to that awesome state.
    • You can role play a younger Darnassian, born in the Long vigil era, but having an incredible arcane talent, and never understood why you couldn't do druidism well, finding it to placid, and religious stuff way too boring. So when the Shen'dralar returned and tested new recruits, you felt such a calling when you were shown how to use the arcane flow within - and you've excelled since to become a great mage of your time
    • You can roleplay your character as a 10k year old Shen'dralar too, that never stopped using magic, weren't part of the Darnassians till now, most of your genius is in creativity , design and construction, but you've had to reapply your efforts to combat as this is the most urgent need and part of the agreement with the Darnassians. As a level 120 mage, your perfectly competent in the less spell works and mindset for battle casting. You eagerly wait for the wars to end so you can start building and creating once more.
    • You can even roleplay as a legendary Moonguard, that's joined the Darnassians after Legion, and helping the Night elf race survive..or a Drnassian Moonguard who had switched to druidism and come back.


    None of this makes any of your characters or any arcane wielding Night elf, less deserving, less powerful or less capable than any Blood elf or Nightborne mage. Remember your blood elf and Nightborne mage characters can be seasoned experts.

    And Farondis are spirit Night Elves, they aren't undead corporeal, so it's not like the DK Night elf, or the Ravencrest ones, but my point was those were night elves, not normal ones, but Night elves like Illidari are Night elves or Undead DK Night elves are also night elves. Anyway they are categorised as humanoid, not undead. You seemed to be saying they shouldn't be considered Night elves so their arcane ability isn't part of the race, which didn't gel to me.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Yeh , yeh fair enough. You didn't have to list so many points.
    .
    Ah, so you see, it's not that nice being on a the receiving end. Now you know what it feels like. And look you did it again !

    It's all good buddy. Glad we're seeing eye to eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I really like this, both the one you suggested for Night elves and the blood elf one. I think little details like that been different from Nightborne and for the blood elves being a bit distinctive from the ordinary High elf - I think are important and acceptable.

    Because Nightborne are Highborne society shown properly, I think it is fitting that Night elf highborne would draw at least one thing from them, like their pose. I'm thinking blizzard could alter the model pose for every one who selects the arcane markings/tattoos/star stuff - or just add a stance tab similar to how orcs get a posture tab. They could also make these neck adjustments I posted earlier..
    .

    Why thank you. It wasn't originally my idea, at least the first part wasn't.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Ah, so you see, it's not that nice being on a the receiving end. Now you know what it feels like. And look you did it again !
    I'm English, we do lists and like organising things in the proper fashion. . Hah! I get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    It's all good buddy. Glad we're seeing eye to eye.
    I wouldn't go that far hordie. I'm watching you !

    /jk

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I really like this, both the one you suggested for Night elves and the blood elf one. I think little details like that been different from Nightborne and for the blood elves being a bit distinctive from the ordinary High elf - I think are important and acceptable.

    Because Nightborne are Highborne society shown properly, I think it is fitting that Night elf highborne would draw at least one thing from them, like their pose. I'm thinking blizzard could alter the model pose for every one who selects the arcane markings/tattoos/star stuff - or just add a stance tab similar to how orcs get a posture tab. They could also make these neck adjustments I posted earlier..






    So the posture tab would alter the neck alignment and the standing position. Giving players a choice.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeh , yeh fair enough. You didn't have to list so many points.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Fair enough, you see them as wood elves, I see them as a fusion of dark elf and wood elf, with many bits. They may not be your race of elves, but I accept you are entitled to view them that way, because they do have a wood elf bit. I won't argue with you that the dark elf bit is a reality and also a part of the race, and the Darnassian group, and even though it is smaller (I don't think it is that small), it's not a new thing, the Darnassians have a large arcane history from the pre-sundering era of the Night elves, being a smaller section now doesn't make them more wood elves than dark elf, it's just the current stage they are in.

    Ways to Roleplay That Fit the Lore
    • You can roleplay a Darnassian Highborne from 10k years ago, that put off arcane magic agreeing with the ban, and picked it up again, you are one of those genius talented Highborne and once you got a bit of practise, you were back to that awesome state.
    • You can role play a younger Darnassian, born in the Long vigil era, but having an incredible arcane talent, and never understood why you couldn't do druidism well, finding it to placid, and religious stuff way too boring. So when the Shen'dralar returned and tested new recruits, you felt such a calling when you were shown how to use the arcane flow within - and you've excelled since to become a great mage of your time
    • You can roleplay your character as a 10k year old Shen'dralar too, that never stopped using magic, weren't part of the Darnassians till now, most of your genius is in creativity , design and construction, but you've had to reapply your efforts to combat as this is the most urgent need and part of the agreement with the Darnassians. As a level 120 mage, your perfectly competent in the less spell works and mindset for battle casting. You eagerly wait for the wars to end so you can start building and creating once more.
    • You can even roleplay as a legendary Moonguard, that's joined the Darnassians after Legion, and helping the Night elf race survive..or a Drnassian Moonguard who had switched to druidism and come back.


    None of this makes any of your characters or any arcane wielding Night elf, less deserving, less powerful or less capable than any Blood elf or Nightborne mage. Remember your blood elf and Nightborne mage characters can be seasoned experts.

    And Farondis are spirit Night Elves, they aren't undead corporeal, so it's not like the DK Night elf, or the Ravencrest ones, but my point was those were night elves, not normal ones, but Night elves like Illidari are Night elves or Undead DK Night elves are also night elves. Anyway they are categorised as humanoid, not undead. You seemed to be saying they shouldn't be considered Night elves so their arcane ability isn't part of the race, which didn't gel to me.
    Okay, you want to consider that farondis is still the same night elf before his death is fine, there are those who consider that the forsaken are still the same as when they were alive and others are not.

    ghosts are undead!

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