Highborne customizations for the Night Elves (NOT High Elves)

[Beloren]

you can play a nightborne and be satisfied, i like the original and intended fantasy of the night elves, around sentinels , druids, priestess and wardens.
A society that saw the horrors their previous culture brought and made drastic changes and reimagined themselves and created new aesthethics and a new objective to stand agaist elves like the ones in quelthalas and suramar.
The NIGHT ELVES themselves dont like suramar.
They activaly hate those cities and if you want that fantasy you have it in a pristine and elevated way, on the horde, dont force an anthethical concept onto a race that EXPLICTLY oposes it.

I think we had this discussion already. The conclusion was:
Night elf players shouldn't have to play horde to play a part of their race they like.
The guys have also made it clear, there was more to the original fantasy of the night elves than you are stating - they always had highborne, demon hunters, Moonguard and others, they've been there from the start.
Suramar is not new, it's been part of Night elf lore from the beginning.
Where did you hear Night elves don't like Suramar? I thought its destruction is why Maiev is so angry, and the loss of their cities and civilization sent them into a 10k year hide. As far as I am aware, Tyrande expressed disgust at the addiction of the Nightbonre, not at the city, I haven't seen any indication of this night elf hate.
It appears Night elves are anti-thetical, it's a racial feature, what do you expect of a race with both high end arcane users and nature users?

Anyway this is all off topic, you will derail the thread, so I will step in with these answers most will agree with, and ask you to make a new topic to discuss this before the essay people see this and we get books written in response, consuming another 4-5 pages on something else we don't want.

- - - Updated - - -

p.s. I checked your post history, and found this is exclusively what you want to talk about, and that a topic you replied to exists that focuses on that here:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...cultures-going

[never Lucky]

Again with the stupid elf s**t ..? When will you give it a rest?

[Ardenaso]

i mean they are pretty much remnants of remnants, wrathion comfirmed the shendralar lost most of their "knowledge", you kill then off and nothing of value is lost

not really, night elf mages

[yana]

not really, night elf mages

we can have the new trainees, or dalaran.
Nothing lost like I said since we have many canon instances of the highborne being washed up failures, the are the definition of dead weights

[Ardenaso]

we can have the new trainees, or dalaran.
Nothing lost like I said since we have many canon instances of the highborne being washed up failures, the are the definition of dead weights

but Tyrande wouldn't permit them to do so without Mordent's sponsorship

[yana]

but Tyrande wouldn't permit them to do so without Mordent's sponsorship

well no mages, oh well what a pity

[FossilFree]

we can have the new trainees, or dalaran.
Nothing lost like I said since we have many canon instances of the highborne being washed up failures, the are the definition of dead weights

Good thing Blizzard doesn't need your permission or your approval to utilize the Shen'dralar.

[ravenmoon]

Good thing Blizzard doesn't need your permission or your approval to utilize the Shen'dralar.

Or the Moonguard, or the other returned Darnassian Highborne who went Shen'dralar but came back they stated in the lore (like the Azsuna twins they showed in Leigon), or the new recruits you play.

Or famous Night elven arcane users like Azshara, Illidan, Farondis to name a few. Nor needing to rewrite the races lore, who are still from the arcane well, and their mastery and expertise remains unchanged, whether they went 0 years, 500 years or 10,000 years without practice (depending on which group), they are the only ELves that remain the arcane origin elf, not altered by other factors. [Like old god aberration, titan fel corruption, exile diminishing, or Eye of Amman'thul titan artifact altered magic.]

They remain elves both attained to the arcane and nature, and which path they go down depends on which class they are, which hasn't changed because Yana disapproves.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway this is all off topic, you will derail the thread, so I will step in with these answers most will agree with, and ask you to make a new topic to discuss this before the essay people see this and we get books written in response, consuming another 4-5 pages on something else we don't want.

No essays from me here, it clear he is trolling or trying to bait a response, I mean even you could see straight through it, despite your huge BElf bias.

- - - Updated - - -

you can play a nightborne and be satisfied, i like the original and intended fantasy of the night elves, around sentinels , druids, priestess and wardens.
A society that saw the horrors their previous culture brought and made drastic changes and reimagined themselves and created new aesthethics and a new objective to stand agaist elves like the ones in quelthalas and suramar.
The NIGHT ELVES themselves dont like suramar.
They activaly hate those cities and if you want that fantasy you have it in a pristine and elevated way, on the horde, dont force an anthethical concept onto a race that EXPLICTLY oposes it.

Aww how sad, perhaps you should read the previous conversations first. I am glad for you that you like the fantasy of the Night elves around sentinesl, druids, priestesses and wardens. I like that too. But you know what else I like just as much? The fantasy of the night elves around the Highborne, Moonguard, the pre-sundering era, the Kaldorei civilization, Order of Elune and the Illidari demon hunters - they are just as original and intended and have been part of the race right fromt he start.

It's okay to like various aspects too. THe Nightborne don't need our justification to exist nor do the Highborne, you can appreciate them for the parts of hte Night elf lore they represent on different factions. Why you would expect a night elf arcane loving fan of the highborne and the kaldorei side, of the lore shoud have to change faction and roll a nightborne now to properly expereince tha tasepct of their lore is beyond. Surely the Nightborne make sense for horde fans who want a piece of Night elf lore on their faction to have a group to rally around, rathe rthan replace the Kaldorei which are the original unchanged version.

Anyway, if you're going make claims about how the entire Night elf race and all its peoples feel, be ready to actually back up your claim, but please - as others suggested.. make a new topic.

[Mace]

you can play a nightborne and be satisfied, i like the original and intended fantasy of the night elves, around sentinels , druids, priestess and wardens.
A society that saw the horrors their previous culture brought and made drastic changes and reimagined themselves and created new aesthethics and a new objective to stand agaist elves like the ones in quelthalas and suramar.
The NIGHT ELVES themselves dont like suramar.
They activaly hate those cities and if you want that fantasy you have it in a pristine and elevated way, on the horde, dont force an anthethical concept onto a race that EXPLICTLY oposes it.

You seem to be fine with Night elves as druids and sentinels, but not as mages, highborne or demon hunters... Given that these have all been core parts of the Night elves, why shouldn't the race be allowed to be all these things?

IF you love druids, but don't love mages, how does Night elf mages interfere with Night elf druids? Did the arcane lore, or highborne lore some how remove the druids or the sentinels? It did not. If you love druids and sentinels, they are there, your happy, how does highborne, demon hunters, night elf arcane magic and cities prevent you from having that? Yet by your statement you fail to recognise and acknowledge that other people want and like other aspects of the race, and they're just as entitled to do so. But then this is not about Night elves being night elves, this is about stopping the rival faction getting the things you consider nice and want in your horde faction. Right!? And screw what anyone else wants or likes.

Not one person in this thread has denied, or asked for the removal of the night elf druid or sentinel, they are all happy with that aspect, they want another aspect they have liked over the years to be more apparent and have options. But you are like no, they should go play horde to experience that side of the lore - don't expect sympathy here.

[FossilFree]

Or the Moonguard, or the other returned Darnassian Highborne who went Shen'dralar but came back they stated in the lore (like the Azsuna twins they showed in Leigon), or the new recruits you play.

Or famous Night elven arcane users like Azshara, Illidan, Farondis to name a few. Nor needing to rewrite the races lore, who are still from the arcane well, and their mastery and expertise remains unchanged, whether they went 0 years, 500 years or 10,000 years without practice (depending on which group), they are the only ELves that remain the arcane origin elf, not altered by other factors. [Like old god aberration, titan fel corruption, exile diminishing, or Eye of Amman'thul titan artifact altered magic.]

They remain elves both attained to the arcane and nature, and which path they go down depends on which class they are, which hasn't changed because Yana disapproves.

I just think some people don't know the lore very well. Or they don't read quest text. Or pay attention to story developments. Because Shen'dralar have been a thing for the Alliance since Cataclysm.

[Manariel]

You seem to be fine with Night elves as druids and sentinels, but not as mages, highborne or demon hunters... Given that these have all been core parts of the Night elves, why shouldn't the race be allowed to be all these things?

Well... No. They have never been core to the Night Elves.

We were introduced to the wonderful WIII Night Elves who hadn't mages and where Demon Hunters were shunned. That's the whole point of the Kaldorei : they don't like magic and don't trust the Demon Hunters but accept to fight with the latter against the Legion.

Harping the Blood Elves/Nightbornes won't ever be satisfying for the Kaldorei. Most peoples - like me - fell in love with them because of their depiction in Warcraft III and while adding mages was already strange they remained largely minor, without ever developping the druidic or priestly elements of their culture in a good way. The druids were even given fully to Neutral content, making them so aloof and disconnected with the rest of the Kaldorei that it was almost as if the race was killed on the spot, and the Priesthood and Sentinels were not used at all in a significant way either.

[Mace]

Well... No. They have never been core to the Night Elves.

We were introduced to the wonderful WIII Night Elves who hadn't mages and where Demon Hunters were shunned. That's the whole point of the Kaldorei : they don't like magic and don't trust the Demon Hunters but accept to fight with the latter against the Legion.

Harping the Blood Elves/Nightbornes won't ever be satisfying for the Kaldorei. Most peoples - like me - fell in love with them because of their depiction in Warcraft III and while adding mages was already strange they remained largely minor, without ever developping the druidic or priestly elements of their culture in a good way. The druids were even given fully to Neutral content, making them so aloof and disconnected with the rest of the Kaldorei that it was almost as if the race was killed on the spot, and the Priesthood and Sentinels were not used at all in a significant way either.

I think what you think is been said is that magecraft is core to Darnassian society. That's not what I'm saying, or anyone that agrees with me here. the arcane side (incorporating whether highborne, arcane in and of itself, magecraft, civilizaition etc - that bracket) Being a core part of the night elf make-up, is not the same as being a core part of Darnassian society. Perhaps this is where the confusion lies?

I suspect this is a case of mis-interpretation. I am taling about the race here, not a section of one of the societies or one of the points in their history - to think the arcane, night elven wizadry or civilization is not core because WC3 didn't have mages, or even 1 city shown (though ti certainly did have arcane present in the Well of Eternity the centre of the races story, the Moonwells, and is reflected in the race itself through their skin colour and eye glow) is an invalid assumption with regard to what I'm talking about here.

You'd be correct to say magecraft was not a core part of the Night elven society we meet in WC3, but if you shift to the Shen'dralar or Nightborne or Moonguard it is. You shift time to the presundering era it is, go to the period where Cenarius first met the night elves, and it isn't. The state of society changes, and not only that, it would be different in every group. Magecraft is not a major part of the current Darnassian society - notice I didn't say core, I said major. It is a part of the society, the arcane has always been part and parcel of all aspects of the Night elves though not as obvious in the Darnassian druids/priests as say nature or Elune - but there all the same. However mage society, arcane living like in pre-sundering times or like we see in the Blood elves, no, it is not a major in the Darnassians at all - BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT here though. I'm talking about the race naturally and overall across all its history, biologically and characteristically across all its groups and factions.


So with this in mind. Note that WC3 game only shows part of what the night elves are about. You meet them after 15,000 years of their existence, with a long and rich history behind them - why would you with that knowledge assume what you see in WC3 is all there is to them or even the main thing? The sentinels and female warrior priests are the biggest players in WC3, yet play almost no role in Classic to WotLK where most night elves you see are about Druidism, then in -game the mages, the Highborne play an increasingly large role culminating in Legion having the biggest display (and this includes Nightborne, just because their are sub-race doesn't mean that is not Night elven civilization, arcane mastery and power you're seeing. i.e. focus changes, but the games are not the only source, in fact the lion share of Night elf information is in the novels. Most races are seen in game, the Night elves were largely ignored, but they have up to 6 books focused on them. That is a lot more than any other race outside humans and orcs on which they are on par with. The Night elves were intended to be a full race, Warcraft developers share. Not even high/blood elves were intended to at first. This is why there scope is much larger than just forest elves and the history so extensive and detailed. So when I talk about them, I am looking at the bigger picture, I go beyond one time frame, or one group, or the showing in one game, I include all the information and sources of them. Simply count the number of words and paragraphs about night elves in Chronicles volume 1-3 and you would find out the part on their civilization and arcane magic is as numerous as that on Elune, druidism or fel demon hunting. Go through the written stuff, and game displays, add them all up you'd find as much development, time, material given to druidism as is the to the arcane, Elunism and Illidari. I am coming from this perspective. Most of us are.


You have also 20 years of info about them since WC3. you see the long vigil end, you see a return to society, in the playable group, you see you are not just a Darnassian (seeing you can be a DK ebon blader or Illidari - and this thread hopes you can get a customisation to be a highborne regardless of your affliation - they do aim to allow you to play your character how you want, you don't have to be tied ot the Darnassians if you don't want to) However the Darnassians do have mages and the arcane as part of their lives like they once did in the pre-sundering era. To a Shen'dralar, nothing has hcanged in that regard, it's always been a part.

To consider only what you see in WC3 as core isn't thorough, nor is interpreting the statement to refer only to the society of night elve.

2. When you say Nightborne, you are already talking about a part of the Night elven race, it's lore and core. It's not harping on blood elves/Nightborne - Nightborne are not part of the blood elf lore or core.

3. When most people say core, they look at what fundamentally a race is about. They factor in all that is presented about them. All their pas (not selecting part of it), and their present too. WE look at what information the developers give us about them in instruction manual, novels, games and other material.

We notice that most o Night elven lore is not in game, but in books, we notice a large part of it is focused on the arcane, the Well of Eternity, the Moonwells, the pre-sundering civilization etc.



I think you thinking "oh we meet druids when we come to the night elves in game - therefore this is what the race is mainly about. Then you forget all the non-druids shown in game, you also ignore what the lore tells you about the rest of the race - just because it isn't shown. Suramar wasn't shown till 16 years after WC3, it took 18 for us to see Zin'Azshari, - tid oesn't mean these didn't exist in night elf lore, and weren't a sginifciant part of the race.

You are told the race is formed from an arcane Well of eternity, and having a great disposition , affinity and skill with the arcane as a natural part of them. This doesn't change about them. One group bans the practice of the arcane for a period of time, however they aren't altered - they don't become less kaldorei from when they were first made either. We see others like the Moonguard and Shen'dralar who didn't stop the use of arcane, continue as night elves too unchanged. The story follows a group of Night elvs that continued the level of excessive use in the invasion period, and took it even further to the point of ingesting mana - these get changed a little by this.

But the arcane, we see in the priesthood via their spells, Elune and the Well, we seein the druids too, in their spells, we see in the Highborne and mages, we see in the Moonwells and Well of Eternity. The eyes of the race glowing silver is because of the arcane power inherent in them. They all have this whether priest, druid or mage - HIghborne, Priest or Druid, Civilian or military. Whether they wield the arcane prolifically or do not at all


I think what you think is been said is that magecraft is core to Darnassian society. That's not what I'm saying, or anyone that agrees with me here. Being a core part of the night elf, is not the same as being a core part of Darnassian society. Perhaps this is where the confusion lies?

[ravenmoon]

I just think some people don't know the lore very well. Or they don't read quest text. Or pay attention to story developments. Because Shen'dralar have been a thing for the Alliance since Cataclysm.

Indeed.

I'm not sure what some of these horde fans think, but if you love night elves, , you are going to get bored of endless forests and druids after a while, you need other things. It's one of the reasons why the arcane side is so popular and precisely the reason blizzard didn't create the night elves as pure wood elves onlybut gave them this dark elf/wood elf duality, arcane/nature duality in their lore. The other reason is ofc, it's the dark elf fantasy side some players are drawn to more than the wood elf fantasy side, should the race that represents both only be focused on the latter, instead of the former?

Ofc not, which is why blixzzard has Shen'dralar, and Darnassian Highborne, Moonguard, Farondis, brought back Suramar even though they made Nightborne in there and eventually sent that horde. Still, Highborne, the arcane is a dear and loved part of the race I am certain I'm not the only one that wants to see more of. And while you get that fantasy in the Nightborne as well, they are available as a separate group and on the other faction too and should be treated as a flavour of the arcane night elf, rather than the replacement. Having Nightborne does nothing for making the night elf more interesting to the Night elf fan - nor of the night elf fan able to play or experience this arcane fantasy of his race, in his races lore on his favourite race. This is why the existence of the Nightborne, even if they were alliance, doesn't and wouldn't negate the desire for Highborne night elves or arcane wielding night elves.

A night elf player who loves the race, would still desire to play that side of the race as a night elf, it's not the same doing so as a Nightborne despite being a night elf sub race, even more so when it's on the opposite faction. We see how players can be particular about their fantasy, just look at the case ofr the unplayable high elf, playing a blood elf is not the same and the high elf isn't even a sub-race, it's the exact same race.

No one who is iito the fantasy of Tauren would feel playing a Highmountian shaman is the same as playing a normal Tauren shaman or a Lightforge draenei is the same as playing a normal draenei - and that's not just because they clearly look different even though being part of the same racial category. But you know who thinks it's the same? The person who doesn't care that much about it.

Fossilfree, they don't care because they're not that into night elves, but feel they should dictate what the night elves should be to everyone. As a developer I wouldn't be making Night elf development decisions based on the opinion of people who don't care about them.

[Manariel]

@Mace
You are conflating the old Kaldorei culture with the current one. That the ancient Kaldorei were very adept at arcane magic and built their civilization off it is irrelevant to the current ones, because those ones expressedly rejected arcane. They built their civilization on an entirely different foundation and it's what BLizzard should have conveyed, instead of them trying - and probably failling - to harp the Nightbornes or Blood Elves, who are not Kaldore anymore, not for 10 000 years, since the race took a different turn.

What you're asking is for people who survived Climate Change of disastrous proportion and rejected the civilization which led to that (sdomething we humans seem unable to do at all) to actively embrace it again, because time passed.

But the Night Elves of today should be glorious with just their druidic and priestly elements. It is Blizzard fault for not conveying it properly since Warcraft III, when they were awesome. But adding a sudden arcanic worshipping excroissance to them won't serve them at all. The Highbornes and Demon Hunters must remain at the fringe of their culture, otherwise there is no point playing a Kaldorei. May as well pick up a sin'dorei or a shal'dorei.

[FossilFree]

@Mace
You are conflating the old Kaldorei culture with the current one. That the ancient Kaldorei were very adept at arcane magic and built their civilization off it is irrelevant to the current ones, because those ones expressedly rejected arcane. They built their civilization on an entirely different foundation and it's what BLizzard should have conveyed, instead of them trying - and probably failling - to harp the Nightbornes or Blood Elves, who are not Kaldore anymore, not for 10 000 years, since the race took a different turn.

What you're asking is for people who survived Climate Change of disastrous proportion and rejected the civilization which led to that (sdomething we humans seem unable to do at all) to actively embrace it again, because time passed.

But the Night Elves of today should be glorious with just their druidic and priestly elements. It is Blizzard fault for not conveying it properly since Warcraft III, when they were awesome. But adding a sudden arcanic worshipping excroissance to them won't serve them at all. The Highbornes and Demon Hunters must remain at the fringe of their culture, otherwise there is no point playing a Kaldorei. May as well pick up a sin'dorei or a shal'dorei.

But Blizzard already gave them Shen'dralar, so the "druidic purity" boat sailed a long time ago.

The Shen'dralar (also spelled Shen'Dralar) meaning "Those Who Remain Hidden" were a secretive Highborne society who dwelled in the Athenaeum within Eldre'Thalas. A part of them were accepted back into the night elven society shortly before the Cataclysm and now train night elven mages.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Shen'dralar

[Manariel]

But Blizzard already gave them Shen'dralar, so the "druidic purity" boat sailed a long time ago.

The Shen'dralar (also spelled Shen'Dralar) meaning "Those Who Remain Hidden" were a secretive Highborne society who dwelled in the Athenaeum within Eldre'Thalas. A part of them were accepted back into the night elven society shortly before the Cataclysm and now train night elven mages.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Shen'dralar

That's why Highborne customizations are okay, since they are playable. But just like Demon Hunters, Mages should remain at the fringe of Kaldorei society, which needs some real development of their Priestly and Druidic culture, instead of trying to make them poor man's Blood Elves/Nightbornes.

[FossilFree]

That's why Highborne customizations are okay, since they are playable. But just like Demon Hunters, Mages should remain at the fringe of Kaldorei society, which needs some real development of their Priestly and Druidic culture, instead of trying to make them poor man's Blood Elves/Nightbornes.

Lorewise, I would agree that they should remain on the fringes, as it wouldn't make much sense to give them center stage. As long as they do the customization options it's all good.

In fact, I think it makes them even more interesting to be the underdogs in Night Elf society, rather than the elites like with Nightborne. It's a nice twist, like making Blood Elves somewhat sinister to buck the trends from other stories/games. Here we have an elf group (Night Elves) that actually looks down on the standard mage trope, as opposed to all other representations where you think elf=mage.

In other words, the Night Elf version of a rebel or iconoclast would be the Highborne mage.

[Pheraz]

I guess everyone here has seen the dark blonde hair color from wowhead, right? And they are not done yet, there will be more stuff

- - - Updated - - -

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...281765376?s=20

[shoc]

I guess everyone here has seen the dark blonde hair color from wowhead, right? And they are not done yet, there will be more stuff

- - - Updated - - -

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...281765376?s=20

The pale skin option + orange hair is Highborne af. Just need to change the posture and animations a bit..

[Astranea]

Today I had some "Photoshop Fun" experimenting with new skin shades based on the colors currently in game.

While this is totally headcanon, and I am certainly not expecting to meet full consensus, I hope at least some of you can appreciate the fact I have been playing with a palette created from the combination of some darker skins only available for the night elf males and some lighter ones only available for females (...seriously speaking, Blizzard making all current colors available to both genders is the least I am expecting for Shadowlands...), trying to come up with something I found aesthetically pleasing while still somewhat close to the original assets in its flavor.

I went for two main themes...

• MAGIC - mostly about light, bright and saturated colors, for the fans of the Highborne and those wanting to rp an Azshara impression
• EARTH - with browns and greens from troll heritage, but also trying to steer away from the peachy tones belonging to the blood elves

And YES, in case you wondered, picking the names for the colors was part of the fun, too.

Hope you enjoy. :-)

"Magic" theme, currently in game
(the number tells you which one it is - I used WoW Model Viewer to export them and wowhead's Dressing Room to double check)



Fantasy dedicated to the Children of the Night

• Pansy - a lighter variation of the male purple skins 2 and 3
• Levender - a saturated variation of the female skin 6 based on the colors seen in the Warbringers Azshara animation
• Lotus - a lighter variation of the female pink skin 9

"Earth" theme, currently in game
(the number tells you which one it is - I used WoW Model Viewer to export them and wowhead's Dressing Room to double check)



Fantasy dedicated to the Children of the Forest

• Wood - based on the exclusive male brown skin 7
• Laurel - a saturated variation of the female skin 5
• Sandalwood - a shade between female pink skin 7 and male brown skin 7