Highborne customizations for the Night Elves (NOT High Elves)

[ravenmoon]

Well they sure don't love traditions regarding Elune so I don't agree on moon crest stuff for Nightborne. Beside that, the chance that night born get anything is very little to me. For me it would be fine if the Shen'dralar stuff is much more inspired by the night elf style then the Suramar/Zin'Azshari style highborn, maybe these people were thinking more about uncover the worlds secret then thinking about how to develop bad fashion taste. This would also explain why all their ingame NPC mostly wearing very simple robes. Even the Shen'dralar in the Darkshore Warfront only wears a simple robe.

It's probably because blizzard hasn't fleshed that side out enough.

The moon crest symbols are all over Suramar and the flags in the city are also the kaldorei flags. do note that house flags, Darnassus flags are different.

It will be very odd if Nightborne priests end up being holy light priests too, Suramar is the last capital of the Order of Elune too, and we know at the very least some nightborne remember Elune worship fondly. Occculeth remember the sight of the prayers to Elune lifting up from the Temple at falanaar (withered training scenario questlines). . Obviously with most of the priesthood marching on to Zin'Azshari in the WotA, they would have been no senior officials left in the city at the time, however there would be individuals who believed in Elune as that's just the race, and it is likely the lower caste amongst the nightborne would still worship her, and probably some amongst the elite highborne caste too,

Otherwise they wouldn't be able to be priests. And if the priesthood comes from the Light, they should be able to be paladins straightaway but are not. AFterall, presumably if it was from the Light, Liadrin would have guided them, and she's a paladin, so they'd be that and preists.

Also notice how the female Nightborne think Tyrande is hot, not surprising she is said to be have beautiful comparable to night elf Azshara was. Who's to say Elune is not welcoming Nightborne? And if druids like Farodin and Nighteys are helping them, why not priests? I seem to remember some of the Val'Sharah refugees helping the Nightfallen resistance were Priests and are the only ones involved.

I also remember Tel'anor is very spiritual to the dead sort of place,

If I were writing the novel of Legion, I would have the Nightborne captured by the legion crying out for Elune and Tyrnade and her sentinels rescuing them. Afterall if druids didn't stay exclusive to Kaldorei, it's doubtful Elunism does, however going to Nightborne isn't really going away from the night people elf (for those who don't like me just saying night elf)

[Hellspawn]

It's probably because blizzard hasn't fleshed that side out enough.
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Nightborn don't have any connection to Elune. Some of they Voice lines are even 1:1 to the night elfs ones but replaced with Elisandre. At this point it seems more likely that their priests learn from the blood elfs. I think Elune very much would welcome the Nightborn but there is not even the smallest indication currently they care for Elune at all (or the night elfs).

In the beginning I thought there would be any interaction between all the elf races, especially between night elf and nightborn but that shipped sailed, especially with BFA. The nightborn are now there that the blood elf have a race on horde they fit with. Nightelf story will continue isolated from them. (Maybe we will have crossroads again when we see Azshara again)

[Mace]

Nightborn don't have any connection to Elune. Some of they Voice lines are even 1:1 to the night elfs ones but replaced with Elisandre. At this point it seems more likely that their priests learn from the blood elfs. I think Elune very much would welcome the Nightborn but there is not even the smallest indication currently they care for Elune at all (or the night elfs).

In the beginning I thought there would be any interaction between all the elf races, especially between night elf and nightborn but that shipped sailed, especially with BFA. The nightborn are now there that the blood elf have a race on horde they fit with. Nightelf story will continue isolated from them. (Maybe we will have crossroads again when we see Azshara again)

I would disagree on not having any connection to Elune though, they are not like the Thalassians who purposely abandoned Elune on exile feeling betrayed by the kaldorei and wanting to change as much about themselves as they possible could to distance themselves.

Nightborne on the other hand are in the opposite situation. You are right they have no Elune lines, the Nightwell and Elisande are there in the pre 7.3.5 Nightborne, but don't forget this changes after - we see priests return, the Arcan'dor is venerated, I suspect that many things not seen in the actions of the Nightborne during 7.0 but are in them in them as a people historically and still remain in the city through symbology and titles and associations. We must take the cue from pre-sundering Kaldorei and Highborne for them on things not fleshed out I personally feel.

So we can't say it's non existant , given all that, it's not a large facet, for sure, but then it may be and just not have featured, and when blizzard goes back to it, all of a sudden they fill in those gaps and make it a big thing. Or they could be Light priests, we don't know for sure.

I think it would be better for them to be Elune priests, and I think more things lend to that than light priests. Both thematically and historically - and based on what we are seeing and not seeing. It is odd that sunlight, would take precedence over moonlight or starlight in a night based elven people still very much in Kaldorei traditions.. in a city full of crescent moons and symbols and the lack of Paladins, any indication of a Holy Light team at all, it's just not there.

There is a 3rd explanation, it is possible the Order of Elune and the night elves did more than worship the Moon Goddess, and the stars played a heavy religious role in sects, and adjuncts of the order. An Augur is more a spiritual person, and the Nightborne definitely have a Star Augur, which is something I would imagine as a part of pre-sundering kaldorei culture which we don't see much in the night elves because they don't have the city and arcane element prevalent enough for those things.

Elune the moon could also have a spiritual significance to the stars like the druids have to the wild god, and this could be a part the Nightborne more adhere too, but I would be surprised if it was devoid of Elune, and wouldn't see the need to. If anything, the Nightborne need more of their kaldorei identity on the horde, otherwise they just become purple looking blood elves with a different body, and that I feel diminishes so much of what they are.

[ravenmoon]

I would disagree on not having any connection to Elune though, they are not like the Thalassians who purposely abandoned Elune on exile feeling betrayed by the kaldorei and wanting to change as much about themselves as they possible could to distance themselves.

@Hellspawn

Whether or not you guys agree or disagree, Nightborne with crescent moon jewelry wouldn't break lore or shock anyone - Suramar is a Moon and Stars city - so much symbology of that.

[Astranea]

Zorbrix just posted on Twitter:

Alpha Testers: Worgen and Night Elf are disabled in this build [34615] but all the others should be enabled.

Fingers crossed for the next build I guess. :-)

[ravenmoon]

Zorbrix just posted on Twitter:


Fingers crossed for the next build I guess. :-)

Getting a bit nervous, again, Troll and NElf updates are lagging, last time we were optimistic being later meant more work was been done. It turned out it was the opposite, the earlier ones got more work, and as the time crunch came, they just rushed us. Belves benefitted the most because as they just couldn't do them in time, they had no pressure period after release to wrok on them, and they did such a good job.

Females looked great, in every department compared to NElf females
Males had so much detail, down to their hands, theri faces also translated well, and the fidelity was very high.

It is still a long way to go, but once again, Humans and dwarves are early runners and have had work piled into them. Haven't seen much for Tauren yet.

But Night elves are a huge race , andw ell loved for them to repeat the less polished and less detailed work of 6.0 in 9.0 - that ended up having night elves, especially males one of the few races that the old models were better - be it the neck posture or the faces etc.

But I'll live

[Pheraz]

It has been a while since any new features for the Night Elves were datamined, so I played a bit with Photoshop to see what additional colors we could get for the facial markings (obviously on both males of females, although I only edited the females as it was much easier).

How about: pink, blue, light blue, gold, orange, white and black?

I am mostly fond of black and white, while I am most uncertain about gold and orange, although I figure they could still make sense matched with golden eyes and/or the new auburn hair color.

Most of the shapes are either from the current game files or based on them, with the exceptions of the last two which were inspired by the minimalist markings Azshara displays in the Warbringers video and the theme of the Night Warriors.

I am obviously assuming that all shapes should be available in every color and separated from skin/hair color, but I don't think you really need me to create a different preview file of headcanon options. :-P

Enjoy... I hope. ;-)

A bit late to the show, but the moon tattoo in the bottom right is freaking awesome!

[Astranea]

A bit late to the show, but the moon tattoo in the bottom right is freaking awesome!

Hehe, I understand that we are currently kinda holding breath for some proper Alpha updates, so fan-made mockups do not have much appeal...

But I am still glad to have received some feedback at last.
Thank you very much. :-)

[ravenmoon]

New build has come, anyone noticed any Nelf changes? Realms are down, but datamining is showing Tauren at last and more blood elf stuff.

We haven't seen major troll or gnome changes yet, have we? So it's not just night elves missing. Don't think they've done Dwarves either yet, but I've not been closely following.

If only the effort put in was proportionate to the popularity and numbers played of the race. Night elves, blood elves and Human should have a huge selection because of their great popularity. However night elves, compared to the other 2 have sooo much less. This has bugged me some. Hope it changes.

[Mace]

New build has come, anyone noticed any Nelf changes? Realms are down, but datamining is showing Tauren at last and more blood elf stuff.

We haven't seen major troll or gnome changes yet, have we? So it's not just night elves missing. Don't think they've done Dwarves either yet, but I've not been closely following.

If only the effort put in was proportionate to the popularity and numbers played of the race. Night elves, blood elves and Human should have a huge selection because of their great popularity. However night elves, compared to the other 2 have sooo much less. This has bugged me some. Hope it changes.

Night elves are not available for selection in this build, which probably means they're actually actively working on them, and there are some extensive changes coming. That's just a guess - have hope if you want, what will be, will be.

[Moonrage]

New build has come, anyone noticed any Nelf changes? Realms are down, but datamining is showing Tauren at last and more blood elf stuff.

We haven't seen major troll or gnome changes yet, have we? So it's not just night elves missing. Don't think they've done Dwarves either yet, but I've not been closely following.

If only the effort put in was proportionate to the popularity and numbers played of the race. Night elves, blood elves and Human should have a huge selection because of their great popularity. However night elves, compared to the other 2 have sooo much less. This has bugged me some. Hope it changes.

Late to the party but I agree. Blood Elves have gotten new skintones, hair colors, hairstyles, necklaces, earrings, body jewellery, yet Night Elves have only gotten skin tones, hair colors and tattoos for men so far. Lackluster to say the least.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Late to the party but I agree. Blood Elves have gotten new skintones, hair colors, hairstyles, necklaces, earrings, body jewellery, yet Night Elves have only gotten skin tones, hair colors and tattoos for men so far. Lackluster to say the least.

Disappointing, but it's clear we are seeing things in batches, and so far we really haven't seen Night Elf nor Troll customizations on the alpha, save for skin/hair colors. Kinda pointless to compare them to Blood Elves in this manner when actually we have seen every other race save for the two mentioned with added assets, no?

But for real bummer that NE's are left for the end; but not much to do about it.

Given the BE ear options tho, I do wonder, will NE's get ear options as well, and perhaps more importantly, will one of those options be NB ears? Thalassian and Shaldorei ears both point (hehe) to the idea that upward pointing ears have a connection to highborne lineage, so I'd really like if NE's got an ear option that points to that Highborne ancestry.

Upward pointing ears, violet eyes and fancier hairstyles might be all we need for a great Highborne flavor; if humans got ethnicities, I do think it's fair Kaldorei get that too.

[ravenmoon]

Disappointing, but it's clear we are seeing things in batches, and so far we really haven't seen Night Elf nor Troll customizations on the alpha, save for skin/hair colors. Kinda pointless to compare them to Blood Elves in this manner when actually we have seen every other race save for the two mentioned with added assets, no?

But for real bummer that NE's are left for the end; but not much to do about it.

Given the BE ear options tho, I do wonder, will NE's get ear options as well, and perhaps more importantly, will one of those options be NB ears? Thalassian and Shaldorei ears both point (hehe) to the idea that upward pointing ears have a connection to highborne lineage, so I'd really like if NE's got an ear option that points to that Highborne ancestry.

Upward pointing ears, violet eyes and fancier hairstyles might be all we need for a great Highborne flavor; if humans got ethnicities, I do think it's fair Kaldorei get that too.

Trolls in the same boat too , although blizzcon did highlight some intended troll changes, there has been little development too. I would hope they had something a little bit more exciting for trolls incoming, blizzcon only hinted at sand troll and forest trooll customisations but the body markings seemed a repeat of what Mag'har orcs got. Two big distinctions for trolls I'd like to see is ear type variations like goblins are getting, but also body size - if we could get amani/drakkari sizes then it's GAME on baby. Some proper jungle troll skins and feature - I never understood why we got so many blue/purple tones for Darkspears who are supposed to be largely green jungle trolls _ I guess this happened in classic beta, when they switched the troll model to resemble the night elf one a little more closely, they changed their ears, body size and purpled them up a bit more - but didn't alter the jungle and forest troll lore themes.


As for night elves...I don't think their ears need to point upwards to show Highborne ancestry - Highborne isn't ancestral to night elves, it is night elven, it is only ancestral to Thalassian elves who are altered descendants of Highborne (I.e Highborne that became an elven race of their own) and to Nightborne who changed from the original. IN effect the night elf ears and all is the original Highborne - but if they do decide to vary the ears that way, it would alter our perception of the lore.

Night elves are getting ear size shifts, same as blood elves, one preview image showed gigantic ears on a female with new hairstyles, but the shape was same. I use to imagine elf ear angles actually altered and moved based on the elf's expression, that Thalassian angling upwards was just an in game alteration to make them look a little more distinct, but in reality the ear angle could be changed by the elf at will and reflected the mood. Stress, high concentration, alertness would angle the ears upwards. Relaxed, normal, serene, at peace would be the normal angle we see on night elves. Embarrassed would have the ears fold outward a bit more like goblins and disappointed, depressed, crying sad would let them droop downwards..

Nightborne ears are different from both, so it was nothing to do with being Highborne, night borne ears unlike the other two, curl upwards, a bit more like Zandalari ears. They are night elf ears in angle, but they tip curls upwards instead of tapers. Meanwhile Thalassian ears are the same shape as NElf ears but with an angle that's higher. We use to think that Highborne might have high elf ears for obvious reason, but these seem to be a classic statue error by the arts team. Still another explanation could exist, it actually could have been a trait of the Sunstrider Highborne and no t a result of the devolution the exile caused. But the comic pictures of Darth'remar while giving him orange/blonde hair in purple skin seems to have left his ears night elven.


But this makes sense, night elf is the original elf, they are to elves what Zandalari are to trolls. You get the full range of elf qualities and attributes in night elves while the other elf off shoots are missing a few things. The arcane heritage the elves get come from the night elves. It is the night elves that produce the Highborne, they are simply night elves the Queen would pick out for honours and membership of the exclusive court because of their talent in magic. They would presumably be in all shades and types..however different communities could have unique characteristics based on their geographic location. e.g. the Shen'dralar could be paler than your usual night elf as Brann observed, while this would not have been true for the Highborne in Suramar/Azsuna or in Zin'Azshari who would have a larger mix - Azshara 's electric blue, Xavius was dark purple..



Upward pointing ears might be a good indication, but personally, I would prefer skinnier body size in an adjusted more arrogant pose and prettier faces as the main calling card, leaving the ears night elven. Skinnier less muscular is more indicative of both a caster and the more noble types who presumably would do less physical work and use magic more often to do so. The more confident, regal pose is also indicative of "the highest caste of the nobility". Prettier /better looking faces especially on the males attests to the greater vanity and care for appearances the caste is more notorious for. And this is how you would distinguish them.

So they may end up having thin bodies like Nightborne (the Nightborne model is the night elf model exactly skinnier) - but I haven't honestly considered if they gave that body size option then altered the ears - I'd accept it, but I would keep the NElf ears the same - Nightborne do look a lot more night elven with their ears the same.. Elisande/Aluriel and a few others had regular NElf ears, and in Legion beta, all Nightborne females had NElf ears - which I felt was prettier.

What would be interesting is if they gave Nightborne the Nelf ear option and body size option. I was a bit surprised the Arcan'dor restored the Nightborne original ear type, after withering changed it back, the Arcan'dor is supposed to heal the effects of the nightwell. So if they give Nightborne Nelf ears, this would explain it. Also I feel bulkier Nelf bodies would also get that explanation, they're actually eating full on proper food, excercising a lot more especially on classes like warriors/rogues/monks and hunters - they would build bulk with the Arcan'dor continuing to heal.

It is easy to see Nelves with slimmer bodies, but not altered ears, it is easy to see Nighbtborne though with more muscular bodies and NElf ears.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Trolls in the same boat too , although blizzcon did highlight some intended troll changes, there has been little development too. I would hope they had something a little bit more exciting for trolls incoming, blizzcon only hinted at sand troll and forest trooll customisations but the body markings seemed a repeat of what Mag'har orcs got. Two big distinctions for trolls I'd like to see is ear type variations like goblins are getting, but also body size - if we could get amani/drakkari sizes then it's GAME on baby. Some proper jungle troll skins and feature - I never understood why we got so many blue/purple tones for Darkspears who are supposed to be largely green jungle trolls _ I guess this happened in classic beta, when they switched the troll model to resemble the night elf one a little more closely, they changed their ears, body size and purpled them up a bit more - but didn't alter the jungle and forest troll lore themes.


As for night elves...I don't think their ears need to point upwards to show Highborne ancestry - Highborne isn't ancestral to night elves, it is night elven, it is only ancestral to Thalassian elves who are altered descendants of Highborne (I.e Highborne that became an elven race of their own) and to Nightborne who changed from the original. IN effect the night elf ears and all is the original Highborne - but if they do decide to vary the ears that way, it would alter our perception of the lore.

Night elves are getting ear size shifts, same as blood elves, one preview image showed gigantic ears on a female with new hairstyles, but the shape was same. I use to imagine elf ear angles actually altered and moved based on the elf's expression, that Thalassian angling upwards was just an in game alteration to make them look a little more distinct, but in reality the ear angle could be changed by the elf at will and reflected the mood. Stress, high concentration, alertness would angle the ears upwards. Relaxed, normal, serene, at peace would be the normal angle we see on night elves. Embarrassed would have the ears fold outward a bit more like goblins and disappointed, depressed, crying sad would let them droop downwards..

Nightborne ears are different from both, so it was nothing to do with being Highborne, night borne ears unlike the other two, curl upwards, a bit more like Zandalari ears. They are night elf ears in angle, but they tip curls upwards instead of tapers. Meanwhile Thalassian ears are the same shape as NElf ears but with an angle that's higher. We use to think that Highborne might have high elf ears for obvious reason, but these seem to be a classic statue error by the arts team. Still another explanation could exist, it actually could have been a trait of the Sunstrider Highborne and no t a result of the devolution the exile caused. But the comic pictures of Darth'remar while giving him orange/blonde hair in purple skin seems to have left his ears night elven.


But this makes sense, night elf is the original elf, they are to elves what Zandalari are to trolls. You get the full range of elf qualities and attributes in night elves while the other elf off shoots are missing a few things. The arcane heritage the elves get come from the night elves. It is the night elves that produce the Highborne, they are simply night elves the Queen would pick out for honours and membership of the exclusive court because of their talent in magic. They would presumably be in all shades and types..however different communities could have unique characteristics based on their geographic location. e.g. the Shen'dralar could be paler than your usual night elf as Brann observed, while this would not have been true for the Highborne in Suramar/Azsuna or in Zin'Azshari who would have a larger mix - Azshara 's electric blue, Xavius was dark purple..



Upward pointing ears might be a good indication, but personally, I would prefer skinnier body size in an adjusted more arrogant pose and prettier faces as the main calling card, leaving the ears night elven. Skinnier less muscular is more indicative of both a caster and the more noble types who presumably would do less physical work and use magic more often to do so. The more confident, regal pose is also indicative of "the highest caste of the nobility". Prettier /better looking faces especially on the males attests to the greater vanity and care for appearances the caste is more notorious for. And this is how you would distinguish them.

So they may end up having thin bodies like Nightborne (the Nightborne model is the night elf model exactly skinnier) - but I haven't honestly considered if they gave that body size option then altered the ears - I'd accept it, but I would keep the NElf ears the same - Nightborne do look a lot more night elven with their ears the same.. Elisande/Aluriel and a few others had regular NElf ears, and in Legion beta, all Nightborne females had NElf ears - which I felt was prettier.

What would be interesting is if they gave Nightborne the Nelf ear option and body size option. I was a bit surprised the Arcan'dor restored the Nightborne original ear type, after withering changed it back, the Arcan'dor is supposed to heal the effects of the nightwell. So if they give Nightborne Nelf ears, this would explain it. Also I feel bulkier Nelf bodies would also get that explanation, they're actually eating full on proper food, excercising a lot more especially on classes like warriors/rogues/monks and hunters - they would build bulk with the Arcan'dor continuing to heal.

It is easy to see Nelves with slimmer bodies, but not altered ears, it is easy to see Nighbtborne though with more muscular bodies and NElf ears.

Dude, for real, CONDENSE your thoughts. This verbosity does not make you seem smarter. Please, consider this, it's just really a slog to go through your posts when you say actually so little.

On point:

-Regardless of anyone's preferences on body sizes, we haven't seen any race so far with any body differences, so this is highly unlikely.

-On ear shape, it's indeed headcanon, but it's also interesting that:

--Two groups of evolved Highborne ended up with upward pointing ears -if differently shaped.
--Some Highborne statues use upward pointing ears (thalassian ones).

Could be used to say that upward pointing ears is a highborne trait. That's my argument, that it's simply a phenotype trait that became more widespread on the Highborne as they were an isolated cast and thusly married into a limited gene pool.

-Elven ears indeed change with mood (they fold), but it's not the same than the actual shape of it is altered, they don't just curl the tips

[Hellspawn]

My problem with the new blood elf ears is that that the point where they are attached to the head has the same size on every ear size, that makes the ear look more like Orc ears. That does not look good and with night elfs where the attachment point is even bigger it would look even worse. Personally I'm not a big fan about different ear sizes, at least not the extremes we got with the blood elfs.

Regarding nightborne ear shape for night elfs. I doubt it, there is no good reason to give it to them, its something unique to nightborne and it should stay that way.

Personally I would rather like to see different face types like humans got (assuming they don't do face shape and ears for a race at the same time).

Night elves are getting ear size shifts, same as blood elves, one preview image showed gigantic ears on a female with new hairstyles, but the shape was same

you are talking about this:


Not sure if its really legit, wowhead never added it to their customization preview and its not listed either. So could be an artifact or something old for demon hunter npcs.

Edit: It is actually only point of view, the ears still have the same size as ever.

[Isilrien]

Dude, for real, CONDENSE your thoughts. This verbosity does not make you seem smarter. Please, consider this, it's just really a slog to go through your posts when you say actually so little.

On point:...

I don't bother to read or even skim long posts. So, thanks for pulling out the major points.

[ravenmoon]

I don't bother to read or even skim long posts. So, thanks for pulling out the major points.

private messaged you,

[Sharnie786]

Only issue I see is the light skin.

IIRC the light skin was a direct result of the exiled Highborne exposure to what would later become known as the Sunwell. They changed overtime to have lighter skin, among other changes.

A Highborne with light skin like what you have in this picture is by definition a High Elf no? I'm for sure on board with more customization options, so long as they fit the lore.

No, it isn't a High Elf. The Shen'dralar are not High Elves, they're Highbourne. The lore is in the text of the original poster.

[Goldielocks]

This makes little to no sense. The Nightborne were warped by the Eye of Aman’thul (Nightwell). There’s absolutely no plausible reason any NB would have been unaffected by it.

This isn’t the same as Void Elves getting fair skin. Alleria was that way before Void Elves were even announced.

Seriously not following on this one.

[Mace]

This makes little to no sense. The Nightborne were warped by the Eye of Aman’thul (Nightwell). There’s absolutely no plausible reason any NB would have been unaffected by it.

This isn’t the same as Void Elves getting fair skin. Alleria was that way before Void Elves were even announced.

Seriously not following on this one.

Who are you replying to? What is this response intended for?