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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Melathyr View Post
    Think I finally realised my issue with any and all Highborne/High Elf suggestions; they're always so pale. As I understand it, didn't their exile lead them to becoming pale? Aren't the Nightborne closer to what the Highborne are supposed to look like? Not including the arcane runes, of course. I also don't understand why them joining the NE would mean we get a slew of jewelry customisation; aren't they trying to separate themselves from their old (Azshara's) vanity?

    Anyway t;dr I saw the chance to draw night elves and took it:



    Bigger resolution: https://i.imgur.com/sVlhkwd.jpg

    Some hairstyles, skin tones and hair colours I'd like to see NE get; two are already in-game (1st is DH-only; 3rd is DK-only). I want more Rite of Passage tattoos as well, but I'm not good with designing those.

    Also sorry for semi-necroing this thread, but all the other customisation threads are dead.
    Correct, one of my issues with wow when it launched in 2004, was that the night elf skin tones were too light.. as if to compensate players for not being able to play the high elves at the time, prior to that, the night elf skin tone was noticeably purple, the lightest shade you would get is similar to the void elves as shown by the cinematic, but it is not pink/peach white like humans are.

    furthermore, their creation and link to the Well of Eternity is what gives them their purple hue, you would expect those who use the arcane more to reflect the deeper purples, I love azshara's Nelf form skin tone as a variation, I also like the middle night elves colour combination in the picture you linked, but definitely darker ones.

    Pale elves are for blood elves and high elves, not night elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Agree with this, and personally I haven't brought it up because it feels like a given that if all humanoid races are getting darker skin tones, so should Night Elves. (My own NE with a darker skin tone, still very pinkish/magenta)

    As for the relation to it all with Highborne; my own headcanon of the whole situation is that Highborne as a whole, or in certain groups at least* where light skinned, which is the reason why the High Elves, and now Blood Elves, are predominantly light skinned as well.

    Personally I'm on board with giving Blood Elves darker skin colors, but obviously given how pretty much all lore characters are light skinned, in universe -safe for some retcons- it would mean current blood elf pop (which comes from the exiled Highborne) is majorly light skinned, with a low % of dark skin overall.

    But, that could have been a result of the specific group of Highborne that where exiled; If we take another group of Highborne, the Suramarians, current skin choices could be extrapolated to say that population was majorly dark skinned.

    So you can even make the case that depending of city of origin, Highborne skin tones could fall on either sides of the spectrum, with the overall current kaldorei population being more of an average.

    In short, Highborne customization could be used to give an in universe justification for either very dark or very light skin, besides the normal expansion of just saying "yeah, there have always been more skin colors" which while I'm personally okay with because at the end of the day is a cosmetic expansion that has little bearing on narrative, I do admit that having explanations for it all fits my tastes better.
    Would be interesting to see what they go with. I think players would like it if was very good looking but a bit different from waht we see.

    After the release of the nightborne, they haev an opportunity to give the shen'dralar a unique look and can literally do anything, as long as they do something nice, we'll love it.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Correct, one of my issues with wow when it launched in 2004, was that the night elf skin tones were too light.. as if to compensate players for not being able to play the high elves at the time, prior to that, the night elf skin tone was noticeably purple, the lightest shade you would get is similar to the void elves as shown by the cinematic, but it is not pink/peach white like humans are.
    Honestly a lot of the "defanging" of the Night Elves can be traced to blizzard trying to make them the generic elf of the alliance; It walked back on the great set up they were given on War3 so much just to make them more palatable for the average player when the alliance already had their generic elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Would be interesting to see what they go with. I think players would like it if was very good looking but a bit different from waht we see.

    After the release of the nightborne, they haev an opportunity to give the shen'dralar a unique look and can literally do anything, as long as they do something nice, we'll love it.
    Exactly; at the end of the day, the Shren'dalar could be as much of a blank canvas as NB were, they could do so much to expand their lore through the added customization, cause at the end of the day the Highborne could be seen as differently as human ethnicities are with those 10k years of population separation.

  3. #123
    @MyWholeLifeIsThunder:

    Ooh, nice art! I've been wanting to give my own Nelf main a darker skin tone in-game for ages now, I hope we get some with SL.

    And frankly I don't mind the reason for blood elves being light skinned, it's the exclusionary "they can't be black at all! my immersion!" that gets me, as if the goats from space, the orcs from space, going back in time, going forward in time, an entire continent being protected by mere mist, an entire island on a turtle's back, going to space but in a different reality, being invaded by space demons, Moses-ing the sea to kill a squid queen and killing several old gods wasn't breaking their immersion that gets me.

    Because some pale-ass elves going out into the sunlight and developing darker skin tones over thousands of years is too immersion-breaking, I guess, but anyway: I agree with your latter point, just give us the different skin tones and say they've always been there. We've rolled with weirder stuff, and it certainly doesn't break any lore, regardless of what folks try to say.

    @ravenmoon:

    OOooh, same here; I loved Nelves in WC3 and instantly made my first character as a Night Elf druid when I started WoW. I tried to make her look like the elves from WC3, but... all the skin tones were so pale. If we get darker ones I'm changing my druid's in a heartbeat.

    @/MyWholeLifeIsThunder:

    This'll teach me to reply to one post at a time, whoops. But yeah this basically, Nelves at WoW launch were nothing at all like the Nelves of WC3. They kiiiinda went back to those roots with Tides of Vengeance/Darkshore, but I'm kinda holdin' my breath until we see more. I'm hoping it isn't a situation where Nelves turn into generic evil villain bent on vengeance, because they'd instantly lose all progress they've made.

    (Went with pings rather than quotes because my post was turning into a novel)
    Times y'all got me with that dang Eye of Azshara Login Screen: 6

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Honestly a lot of the "defanging" of the Night Elves can be traced to blizzard trying to make them the generic elf of the alliance; It walked back on the great set up they were given on War3 so much just to make them more palatable for the average player when the alliance already had their generic elves.
    Oh without a doubt, and this happened over the course of wow. Not at first at classic, but I think when TBC was designed, the company wen twith the horde first rule to boost its numbers. Development of alliance races just disappeared.

    Night elves got no development, we next see them developed in cataclysm, only because every classic race is revamped, and they are whooped in Azshara, Asehvnale, Stonetalon and Desolace when meeting the horde. You have to wait another 6 years for Legion to see them involved, and even then, the night elves we get are all neutral, and their sub-race nightborne eventually goes horde.

    Night elves struck me as a more intense version of elves. Whatever the high elves were they more severe, emphasizing the elven traits more. They were more intense, more cut throat, they were more magical too, more long lived (immortal), taller, night opposite tot eh day of the high elves, intense with whatever magic they chose - whether it was talking about their arcane a magic (pre-sundering) or nature magic (post sundering), the night elves wer no nonsense. They weren't evil, they were very good, just didn't waste time, sit around - at least the military ones. We see sentinels not hestitating plugging orcs with arrows, Tyrande executes those who stop her releasing Illidan - the world is at stake, its not a time to debate, action needs to be taken

    And I was fine with this contrasted with the benevolent serene night elf portrayed in classic, because I understoodthis was 2 sides of the same coin, a duality, juxtaposition of contrasting themes always...a ruthlensness yet serene benevolence, seemingly primitive yet a highly advanced race (not utilising that part in the section of tehes tory,but aware it was there and would have that element return as a major half that contrasted with the nature half), the distinct almost polar opposite roles of womena nd men in the long vigil culture.

    night elves had character and distinction, enigmatic with these contrasting things about them - they weren't the pushovers and I respeted them for showing people who were kind and good, but not soft.

    Then the blood elves came and seemed to be the only elves with guts, as if the night elves disappeared.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Exactly; at the end of the day, the Shren'dalar could be as much of a blank canvas as NB were, they could do so much to expand their lore through the added customization, cause at the end of the day the Highborne could be seen as differently as human ethnicities are with those 10k years of population separation.
    Yeh, as long as they don't make them ugly, if they do the highborne appearance, I'm hoping that we would actual good looking night elf male male faces and beards, and regal looking dignified females and males. Azshara level of beauty - no crooked eyebrows, no Amish like new beards for the highborne range

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    If Blizzard does this it will be proof that they are deliberately giving players everything except for what they actually want
    They've already proven that, with Kul'tiran, Mechagnomes, Lightforged Draenei and Voidelves. Not sure what more proof you need at this point.
    Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Melathyr View Post
    @MyWholeLifeIsThunder:

    Ooh, nice art! I've been wanting to give my own Nelf main a darker skin tone in-game for ages now, I hope we get some with SL.
    Fingers crossed!


    Quote Originally Posted by Melathyr View Post
    And frankly I don't mind the reason for blood elves being light skinned, it's the exclusionary "they can't be black at all! my immersion!" that gets me, as if the goats from space, the orcs from space, going back in time, going forward in time, an entire continent being protected by mere mist, an entire island on a turtle's back, going to space but in a different reality, being invaded by space demons, Moses-ing the sea to kill a squid queen and killing several old gods wasn't breaking their immersion that gets me.

    Because some pale-ass elves going out into the sunlight and developing darker skin tones over thousands of years is too immersion-breaking, I guess, but anyway: I agree with your latter point, just give us the different skin tones and say they've always been there. We've rolled with weirder stuff, and it certainly doesn't break any
    Indeed, that's what irks me; at the end of the day, we are talking about skin colors for fantasy races, that there would be even be pushback against the idea of adding more variety is just so dumb. Like we don't actually need lore to expand on it, it's just a design choice.

    And we can even say that more variation makes more sense than the apparent skin tone hegemony. Non human colored races actually seem to have more variation; Draenei can go from very pale to very dark, all in different hues. Trolls come in all colors, and Night Elves come from a race that spread across the whole known world yet there's little differentiation between populaces, even when that's what literally gave us troll tribes before?

    Contextually, as the predominant race for millenia, Night Elves could, and should have a lot more variation than they currently have, and thus the highborne that became the high elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Oh without a doubt, and this happened over the course of wow. Not at first at classic, but I think when TBC was designed, the company wen twith the horde first rule to boost its numbers. Development of alliance races just disappeared.

    Night elves got no development, we next see them developed in cataclysm, only because every classic race is revamped, and they are whooped in Azshara, Asehvnale, Stonetalon and Desolace when meeting the horde. You have to wait another 6 years for Legion to see them involved, and even then, the night elves we get are all neutral, and their sub-race nightborne eventually goes horde.

    Night elves struck me as a more intense version of elves. Whatever the high elves were they more severe, emphasizing the elven traits more. They were more intense, more cut throat, they were more magical too, more long lived (immortal), taller, night opposite tot eh day of the high elves, intense with whatever magic they chose - whether it was talking about their arcane a magic (pre-sundering) or nature magic (post sundering), the night elves wer no nonsense. They weren't evil, they were very good, just didn't waste time, sit around - at least the military ones. We see sentinels not hestitating plugging orcs with arrows, Tyrande executes those who stop her releasing Illidan - the world is at stake, its not a time to debate, action needs to be taken

    And I was fine with this contrasted with the benevolent serene night elf portrayed in classic, because I understoodthis was 2 sides of the same coin, a duality, juxtaposition of contrasting themes always...a ruthlensness yet serene benevolence, seemingly primitive yet a highly advanced race (not utilising that part in the section of tehes tory,but aware it was there and would have that element return as a major half that contrasted with the nature half), the distinct almost polar opposite roles of womena nd men in the long vigil culture.

    night elves had character and distinction, enigmatic with these contrasting things about them - they weren't the pushovers and I respeted them for showing people who were kind and good, but not soft.

    Then the blood elves came and seemed to be the only elves with guts, as if the night elves disappeared.
    IMO I don't personally blame the Blood Elves, but I do think the BE's edgy characterization does build up from how defanged the NE's became through classic.

    NE's were ruthless and no nonsense, but as those traits were downplayed in Vanilla in favor of a more generic tree loving elune worshipping elf, blood elves own ruthlessness and tenacity and, well, edginess was focused on, which did continue the trend of making NE's "softer" but it was a trend already started with Vanilla. Night Elves used to be very very proactive about defending nature, to the detriment of other races, and really I just don't think there's other word for it such as "softened" that fits. Vanilla focused almost exclusively on their bond with nature and gentleness with it, their devotion to elune and that, while just dismissing their ruthlessness.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Yeh, as long as they don't make them ugly, if they do the highborne appearance, I'm hoping that we would actual good looking night elf male male faces and beards, and regal looking dignified females and males. Azshara level of beauty - no crooked eyebrows, no Amish like new beards for the highborne range
    Overall it's hard to think they'd look much different than NE's do now -for better or worse- so besides more hairstyles and skin colors I don't think much more is on the horizon.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post

    IMO I don't personally blame the Blood Elves, but I do think the BE's edgy characterization does build up from how defanged the NE's became through classic.

    NE's were ruthless and no nonsense, but as those traits were downplayed in Vanilla in favor of a more generic tree loving elune worshipping elf, blood elves own ruthlessness and tenacity and, well, edginess was focused on, which did continue the trend of making NE's "softer" but it was a trend already started with Vanilla. Night Elves used to be very very proactive about defending nature, to the detriment of other races, and really I just don't think there's other word for it such as "softened" that fits. Vanilla focused almost exclusively on their bond with nature and gentleness with it, their devotion to elune and that, while just dismissing their ruthlessness.

    It feels like blizzard transferred all their love from the night elves to the blood elves rather than love both. Blood elves were made more edgy to fit more in line with the horde, but their evil overtones (especially seen in classic, and anti-hero tones from TFT) were also removed to make them more likeable so people could see they were playing high elves (that was the main attraction - we are playing high elves now, on the horde they're called blood elves).

    You are right that blood elves, the actual blood elves had their own ruthless tenacity to them, which to me had nothing to do with the night elves own which existed for their own reasons (this is much like how I view the night elf arcane side, highborne and pre-sundering night elf culture is it own arcane thing with its own culture (Elune, druidsm nature love roots, and the star /moon thing gives it a totally different vibe before you even factor in color changes), it has nothing to do with the high elves own civilization and culture which is its own thing - ye s they're both elves and so you see similar tings like ruthlessness and benevolence, nature love and arcane magic love, but each has this in its own way as relevant to its own story and it feels different in both - I keep trying to convey the difference the racial stamp has to people ,but if not shown properly by blizzard in game, people aren't just interested enough to read the text and extra game material that would correctly inform their view). However they also changed that blood elf, to more or less a good elf with a harder edge, like the WC3 night elf

    I never took classic as a pacifying of night elves, I just viewed as we weren't shown night elves in a war or fighting setting, but the other side of the coin we couldn't seein WC3 which was all war... classic just explores the local zones and the rpoblems and issues on a zone basis reflecting what races are like and about at the time - now when cataclysm hits, this is when I expected to see the WC3 night elf attitude returned, it was looking a bit promising in Darkshore, but if you levelled a horde and did Azshara, then did Ashenvale (on both factions) oh mygosh, they felt l ike a different race - pussies, pushovers, the shock of my wow life was seeing how stupid they made the night elven arcane effort in Azshara - first of all you put only novices there, , nor draenei/human/high elven or shen'dralar support, when you are pressed, can make portals and have allies (Stormwind was not at war, nor was Azuremyst)

    Then you make the horde just roflstomp across the board.. the worse was in Ashenvale, where you have Darnassians who know the forest inside out, being 1-shotted, out stealthed, and out-forested by orcs and forsaken - it's not even that they lost, it's how badly they lost that was stupefying.. were were the druids? The horde advancement should have been very costly - notice how war of thorns does much better, but still falls a little short.

    It was at cataclysm I confirmed that they actually didn't care much about the night elves... and the alliance was definitely second fiddle. The forsaken story was leaps and bounds ahead, Goblins had far more put into them than worgen, despitethe big racial changes in the night elves (like the highborne returning) so little was shown, - the worgen got a tree and the highborne got nothing in Darnassus - ofc that's because Stormwind and Orgrimmar were the only cities revamped. Let's not even


    I could go on, but i'll stop here.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Indeed, that's what irks me; at the end of the day, we are talking about skin colors for fantasy races, that there would be even be pushback against the idea of adding more variety is just so dumb. Like we don't actually need lore to expand on it, it's just a design choice.

    And we can even say that more variation makes more sense than the apparent skin tone hegemony. Non human colored races actually seem to have more variation; Draenei can go from very pale to very dark, all in different hues. Trolls come in all colors, and Night Elves come from a race that spread across the whole known world yet there's little differentiation between populaces, even when that's what literally gave us troll tribes before?

    Contextually, as the predominant race for millenia, Night Elves could, and should have a lot more variation than they currently have, and thus the highborne that became the high elves.
    Good point about the Night Elves' longevity; I hadn't considered that the mere fact of them existing-- not only existing, but having a rich culture for tens of thousands of years-- should've meant we had a wide variety of the way elves looked. We know they were spread across the entire continent and would've not only had (at least) slight cultural differences but visual differences too just from a geographical viewpoint, not accounting for magic use. With the Nightborne having such a stark difference from Night Elves visually from using arcane magic, we should have a whole variety of visualisations of different magic use, too, but I digress into 'what I want but likely won't get' territory.

    I always did feel like there should've been more 'links' between how the Night Elves, Trolls and Blood Elves looked, as sometimes it's hard to remember that they share common ancestors. I think the height difference is the biggest factor, and the fact there's various 'high elf' NPCs but they use either a 7ft Night Elf model or a 6ft Blood Elf model with no in-between.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    It feels like blizzard transferred all their love from the night elves to the blood elves rather than love both. Blood elves were made more edgy to fit more in line with the horde, but their evil overtones (especially seen in classic, and anti-hero tones from TFT) were also removed to make them more likeable so people could see they were playing high elves (that was the main attraction - we are playing high elves now, on the horde they're called blood elves).

    You are right that blood elves, the actual blood elves had their own ruthless tenacity to them, which to me had nothing to do with the night elves own which existed for their own reasons (this is much like how I view the night elf arcane side, highborne and pre-sundering night elf culture is it own arcane thing with its own culture (Elune, druidsm nature love roots, and the star /moon thing gives it a totally different vibe before you even factor in color changes), it has nothing to do with the high elves own civilization and culture which is its own thing - ye s they're both elves and so you see similar tings like ruthlessness and benevolence, nature love and arcane magic love, but each has this in its own way as relevant to its own story and it feels different in both - I keep trying to convey the difference the racial stamp has to people ,but if not shown properly by blizzard in game, people aren't just interested enough to read the text and extra game material that would correctly inform their view). However they also changed that blood elf, to more or less a good elf with a harder edge, like the WC3 night elf

    I never took classic as a pacifying of night elves, I just viewed as we weren't shown night elves in a war or fighting setting, but the other side of the coin we couldn't seein WC3 which was all war... classic just explores the local zones and the rpoblems and issues on a zone basis reflecting what races are like and about at the time - now when cataclysm hits, this is when I expected to see the WC3 night elf attitude returned, it was looking a bit promising in Darkshore, but if you levelled a horde and did Azshara, then did Ashenvale (on both factions) oh mygosh, they felt l ike a different race - pussies, pushovers, the shock of my wow life was seeing how stupid they made the night elven arcane effort in Azshara - first of all you put only novices there, , nor draenei/human/high elven or shen'dralar support, when you are pressed, can make portals and have allies (Stormwind was not at war, nor was Azuremyst)

    Then you make the horde just roflstomp across the board.. the worse was in Ashenvale, where you have Darnassians who know the forest inside out, being 1-shotted, out stealthed, and out-forested by orcs and forsaken - it's not even that they lost, it's how badly they lost that was stupefying.. were were the druids? The horde advancement should have been very costly - notice how war of thorns does much better, but still falls a little short.

    It was at cataclysm I confirmed that they actually didn't care much about the night elves... and the alliance was definitely second fiddle. The forsaken story was leaps and bounds ahead, Goblins had far more put into them than worgen, despitethe big racial changes in the night elves (like the highborne returning) so little was shown, - the worgen got a tree and the highborne got nothing in Darnassus - ofc that's because Stormwind and Orgrimmar were the only cities revamped. Let's not even


    I could go on, but i'll stop here.
    Y'all both have good points with Vanilla's issue; I definitely rode the wave with Vanilla NE and played one because I loved them in WC3 so much, and at the time I had the same thought where it was just the other side of the coin as to their culture. That said, we never saw the WC3 side again until BFA, because like you said, they were a joke in Cata, even in the 80+ zones and endgame. Hyjal and the Firelands left a lot to be desired. The revamped leveling zones were actually frustrating for me and I think after my initial playthrough, I never leveled in those zones again. Ashenvale especially.

    Slightly off topic but I remember wondering why the Draenei didn't help with Darkshore in 8.1; they had just as much reason as the Worgen.
    Times y'all got me with that dang Eye of Azshara Login Screen: 6

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    SNIP
    Honestly, yeah. Personally, I remember clearly from vanilla myself thinking that I didn't like the overall framing the NE were receiving; as you said sure, we were seeing another perspective, not then knee deep in war, but even then I remember thinking they were being written as way more pacifist than they had been on War3. I remember being wary on Vanilla, and it was indeed Cataclysm that codified their overall softening, but I do think that the framing on vanilla already had thrown us into that direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melathyr View Post
    Good point about the Night Elves' longevity; I hadn't considered that the mere fact of them existing-- not only existing, but having a rich culture for tens of thousands of years-- should've meant we had a wide variety of the way elves looked. We know they were spread across the entire continent and would've not only had (at least) slight cultural differences but visual differences too just from a geographical viewpoint, not accounting for magic use. With the Nightborne having such a stark difference from Night Elves visually from using arcane magic, we should have a whole variety of visualisations of different magic use, too, but I digress into 'what I want but likely won't get' territory.
    Indeed, but yeah, I do think it's very interesting that contextually, Night Elves could have as much variation as trolls; in certain ways they do with Thalassian Elves, but that's a bigger jump, so yeah, NE's really could have a lot more variation caused by geography and relative isolation as they occupied most of ancient Kalimdor

    Quote Originally Posted by Melathyr View Post
    I always did feel like there should've been more 'links' between how the Night Elves, Trolls and Blood Elves looked, as sometimes it's hard to remember that they share common ancestors. I think the height difference is the biggest factor, and the fact there's various 'high elf' NPCs but they use either a 7ft Night Elf model or a 6ft Blood Elf model with no in-between.
    I do think that there wouldn't be more links between troll and NE for reason that it was a population that was changed by their proximity to the Well, it's hard to believe many in between dark trolls would leave their own paradise, you know?

    As for the NE->HE progression, that one always feels a bit weird because it's hard to believe it happened overnight, it really seems like something that should have taken generations. -also we have the Shren'dalar, which for some reason didn't change?- Given that there are some High Elf mobs and ghosts that still use the old vanilla model -the recolored NE- I kinda want to believe that the coloring change (hair and skin) maybe was as quick as the Ghostlands Manga depicts by reason of being linked not only to the new diurnal lifestyle but to the creation of the Sunwell. The height and average body build change would have come with generations.

    I've always thought that the upward ears was a Highborne trait already given that highborne ruins have statues with upward pointing ears, and that Nightborne also share this trait. So the millenia have made the HE ears from just upward pointing ends to smaller, completely upturned ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melathyr View Post
    Slightly off topic but I remember wondering why the Draenei didn't help with Darkshore in 8.1; they had just as much reason as the Worgen.
    I think that the explanation -excuse better said- that they depleted too much of their resources and armies on the Argus campaign is as good as any tbh. And I do think that would have been something Tyrande would have understood, even if it would have been nice to actually see the draenei in Darkshore, albeit nominally.

  10. #130
    Sounds great, I'm up for it!

    Check the thread I just made on displaying caster animations using staves and wands.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I've always thought that the upward ears was a Highborne trait already given that highborne ruins have statues with upward pointing ears, and that Nightborne also share this trait. So the millenia have made the HE ears from just upward pointing ends to smaller, completely upturned ones.
    Yeah, that was my thought as well, and why I was thinking some slight ear customization could be implemented for the NE, bringing screenshots of such Classic statues as reference, yet someone in this thread was pointing to the fact that there’s been some retconning of the Highborne traits following the release of BC, when Blizzard established the story of the BE, and since then all of the Highborne statues have had regular NE ears, with the sole exception of some recycling in Cata which should not be used for reference...

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    Yeah, that was my thought as well, and why I was thinking some slight ear customization could be implemented for the NE, bringing screenshots of such Classic statues as reference, yet someone in this thread was pointing to the fact that there’s been some retconning of the Highborne traits following the release of BC, when Blizzard established the story of the BE, and since then all of the Highborne statues have had regular NE ears, with the sole exception of some recycling in Cata which should not be used for reference...

    THat did cross my mind in early clasic, but there was enough evidence to indicate otherwise when Dire Maul came out. I just assumed that the upwards ears was an extra motory movement elves had that the game wasn't able to show. e.g. When they are casting or deep in concentration their ears go vertically up, same with high stress and alertness. When they are relaxed and calm/serene their ears are as you see them on night elves. When ashamed or embarassed, disgraced or depressed, they droop downwards and outwars, alsmot like trolls - but they are capable of moving their ears unlike humans - I just felt hte game stuck the high elves with one and the night elves with another just to make their models a bit more distinct, or the high elves ears remained stuck like that because during the exile it was a time of great stress , constant alertness because they were diminished having been cut off from the well and struggling for survival.


    I also think that sometimes the departments don't clarify things. Creative should have checked and made sure the correct one was used. In the Well of Eternity instance, at first the palace highborne used high/blood elf models in the PTR, this was fixed and changed to NE models by the time it was released. THe Warcraft RPG, that isn't common, is the source of the wrong feeling that the highborne are a different race. I simply conclude they got it wrong, because War of the Ancients novel is absolutely clear on what and who they are, as was the Dire Maul instance. The RPG also pointed out that night elves who exiled are cut off from the well of eternity by the druids, and all change into high elves on continuing to use arcane magic after that. This like many other pieces of information have not been disputed by in-game lore, their a lot of things in the RPG that have made it in game, much more than hasn't.. but in the things that haven't, there are some huge discrepancies.

    I haven't seen such mistakes between art and lore since then, but then story telling has improved dramatically, and I think now that creative briefs the art team when they meet to map out the expansion. Since after cata (i.e. MoP on), the art team has been getting very spot on with lore (look at Legion) and actually shown things with an accuracy and reveal that hasn't come in the text. I have now looked for lore clues in the art as much as I have in item descriptions, it's just one of the many things they've greatly improved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post

    As for the NE->HE progression, that one always feels a bit weird because it's hard to believe it happened overnight, it really seems like something that should have taken generations. -also we have the Shren'dalar, which for some reason didn't change?- Given that there are some High Elf mobs and ghosts that still use the old vanilla model -the recolored NE- I kinda want to believe that the coloring change (hair and skin) maybe was as quick as the Ghostlands Manga depicts by reason of being linked not only to the new diurnal lifestyle but to the creation of the Sunwell. The height and average body build change would have come with generations.

    I've always thought that the upward ears was a Highborne trait already given that highborne ruins have statues with upward pointing ears, and that Nightborne also share this trait. So the millenia have made the HE ears from just upward pointing ends to smaller, completely upturned ones.


    .
    WC3 and classic had the elves share identical model shapes, just skin/eye colour, height, ear angles were different. I'm always conscious that in a real situation the elves would look very similar, and the model difference in game is just for gameplay reason to make them as distinct as possible for silhouette purposes.

    When I think of the transition, I never thought they became a different shape... going night elf to high elf is a minor diminishing, it is nothing like the transformation from troll to elf, it's a lot like the transformation of the different troll species. High elf and night elf are just like different elf species, much the same way drakkari and gurubashi are different troll species.

    Nightborne is even less of a change, and that is seen in the model, their slim appearance is accounted for by their starvation and dietary limitations, not some physical transformation. They still remain purple and nocturnal, their eyes still silver, they have the NElven fangs and claws, same primal feel with their outfits, moon and night symbols, sabers etc , the change is not as diverse as the high elves, they really are a sub-race of night elf, a new version of night elf (seeing they are still nocturnal), than they are a new distinct species 3rd species of elf (which is what some people think - and I wonder you mean the environment difference was enough to fool them? But then most never read WotA or Wolfheart and actually know nothing of the pre-sundering night elven culture because they've not been shown properly in game till Suramar). The only identifiable physiological difference is the tip of the ears that curve upwards, and up until release build, the female Nightborne had night elven ears.. they really looked like skinnier night elves with darker purple skin tones - but it was still enough to make them look different, just like the purple skin void elves have. It's interesting how 2 degrees of change make them look that much more different (the npc females use a version of the old night elf female model retouched, the males are the one that have a new face)

    NE to HE has 3 degrees of change: Skin colour, ear angle, eye colour, body stature

    NE to NbE has 1 degree of change: ear tip (2 for ingame model because the body is skinny)

    Just like Kul'tirans are fatter humans, Nightborne are skinnier night elves.

    For allied races: Nightborne, Zandalari, Kul'tiran, Dark Iron, Mechagnomes, Vulpera and Void elves - look and are characterosed distinctly enough to feel different.
    Highmountain, Lightforged, Mag'har aren't good enough.

    If they had added wings to Lightforged, had Highmountain stoneskinned instead and only Mag'har could be upright - they'd have felt different. However as they are, these allied races could easily be customisations.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-01-22 at 11:27 AM.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    Yeah, that was my thought as well, and why I was thinking some slight ear customization could be implemented for the NE, bringing screenshots of such Classic statues as reference, yet someone in this thread was pointing to the fact that there’s been some retconning of the Highborne traits following the release of BC, when Blizzard established the story of the BE, and since then all of the Highborne statues have had regular NE ears, with the sole exception of some recycling in Cata which should not be used for reference...
    I mean they still have used statues with the more upward pointing ears as far as legion, so I can't utterly discount them yet as retcon. We just have to wait and see tbh.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    they still have used statues with the more upward pointing ears as far as legion
    Could you point me to them, or fetch any screenshots? I have been looking around, but only seemed to find statues shaped as Night Elves in the latest expansions content.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    Could you point me to them, or fetch any screenshots? I have been looking around, but only seemed to find statues shaped as Night Elves in the latest expansions content.
    Let you know when I do; you are right that most of the statues got remade to look newer -and more Kaldorei- but I'm like sure there's one of the male ranger with the bow somewhere.

  16. #136
    I would love this, it would be more fitting for night elf mages. I also wish night elf priests could get some moonpriest glyph that makes all their spells moonpriest-ee.

    Also make Nightborne less ugly

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grythletubs View Post
    I would love this, it would be more fitting for night elf mages. I also wish night elf priests could get some moonpriest glyph that makes all their spells moonpriest-ee.

    Also make Nightborne less ugly
    I still don't get the change...really should have looked like the npcs
    Hope, the greatest power of all!

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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Oh without a doubt, and this happened over the course of wow. Not at first at classic, but I think when TBC was designed, the company wen twith the horde first rule to boost its numbers. Development of alliance races just disappeared.

    Night elves got no development, we next see them developed in cataclysm, only because every classic race is revamped, and they are whooped in Azshara, Asehvnale, Stonetalon and Desolace when meeting the horde. You have to wait another 6 years for Legion to see them involved, and even then, the night elves we get are all neutral, and their sub-race nightborne eventually goes horde.

    Night elves struck me as a more intense version of elves. Whatever the high elves were they more severe, emphasizing the elven traits more. They were more intense, more cut throat, they were more magical too, more long lived (immortal), taller, night opposite tot eh day of the high elves, intense with whatever magic they chose - whether it was talking about their arcane a magic (pre-sundering) or nature magic (post sundering), the night elves wer no nonsense. They weren't evil, they were very good, just didn't waste time, sit around - at least the military ones. We see sentinels not hestitating plugging orcs with arrows, Tyrande executes those who stop her releasing Illidan - the world is at stake, its not a time to debate, action needs to be taken

    And I was fine with this contrasted with the benevolent serene night elf portrayed in classic, because I understoodthis was 2 sides of the same coin, a duality, juxtaposition of contrasting themes always...a ruthlensness yet serene benevolence, seemingly primitive yet a highly advanced race (not utilising that part in the section of tehes tory,but aware it was there and would have that element return as a major half that contrasted with the nature half), the distinct almost polar opposite roles of womena nd men in the long vigil culture.

    night elves had character and distinction, enigmatic with these contrasting things about them - they weren't the pushovers and I respeted them for showing people who were kind and good, but not soft.

    Then the blood elves came and seemed to be the only elves with guts, as if the night elves disappeared.

    [LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]
    Yeh, as long as they don't make them ugly, if they do the highborne appearance, I'm hoping that we would actual good looking night elf male male faces and beards, and regal looking dignified females and males. Azshara level of beauty - no crooked eyebrows, no Amish like new beards for the highborne range
    Val'sharah is a clearly Darnassian area not of neutral night elves! malfurion and tyrande are the leaders of the night elves that live there!

  19. #139
    While we're at it, can we also get Ysera's skin color? I'd love for my Night Elf to have that deep purple skintone.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    If Blizzard does this it will be proof that they are deliberately giving players everything except for what they actually want
    What if we want anything but High Elves?

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