Highborne customizations for the Night Elves (NOT High Elves)

[Mace]

What are your sources for the artistically-rendered images?

A lot of them are from DeviantArt in your signature. I use to enjoy looking at various peoples' envisioning of their night elf characters, seen a lot of art, and there is a lot of love out there for the group. People, far more than post here are attuned to what night elves are and envision them in far more than the druid forester, they seem to be able to capture well priestesses, rangers, druids, and highborne as well as demon hunters... he styles are great, good feels, and they have their distinctive order vibes yet the characteristic night elf ears, eyebrows and skin shades.

There I found from various searches and picked the ones that had the vibe and look I felt was closest to how the lore describes them. All of these are the ones I really like btw. Iseijin drew the one I use as my avatar and his along with the first pic are perhaps the most iconic representation of what a highborne night elf male I imagine would look like if done well.

[Isilrien]

A lot of them are from DeviantArt in your signature. I use to enjoy looking at various peoples' envisioning of their night elf characters, seen a lot of art, and there is a lot of love out there for the group. People, far more than post here are attuned to what night elves are and envision them in far more than the druid forester, they seem to be able to capture well priestesses, rangers, druids, and highborne as well as demon hunters... he styles are great, good feels, and they have their distinctive order vibes yet the characteristic night elf ears, eyebrows and skin shades.

There I found from various searches and picked the ones that had the vibe and look I felt was closest to how the lore describes them. All of these are the ones I really like btw. Iseijin drew the one I use as my avatar and his along with the first pic are perhaps the most iconic representation of what a highborne night elf male I imagine would look like if done well.

Ok. I was asking more for artist names or pages so that they get due credit. Thanks for responding!

[Mace]

Ok. I was asking more for artist names or pages so that they get due credit. Thanks for responding!

They really are good aren't they a fuller set of pictures I compiled here.

[ravenmoon]

I know but given all these highborne options for night elves, Horde players could ask why don't their highborne have them. All these ornaments fit nightborne even more than night elves.

Technically horde dont have highborne, they have blood elves, who are devolved highborne descendants, and nightborne, night elves arcane corrupted by the nightwell magical abuse. A few nightborne might still keep the kaldorei designation though, but no Thalassian elf does.

[matrix123mko]

Technically horde dont have highborne, they have blood elves, who are devolved highborne descendants, and nightborne, night elves arcane corrupted by the nightwell magical abuse. A few nightborne might still keep the kaldorei designation though, but no Thalassian elf does.

I mean, it would be weird if Shen'dralar worn more extravagant robes than Thalassians. Also,Highborne is a name of state, which still exists but was renamed from Quel'dorei to Sin'dorei during last 13 years.

[ravenmoon]

Only if nightborne and blood elves will get something to mirror that.

Off course blood elves should get some things, not a mirror of this highborne proposal though, they already do the high class fancy noble and magisterial very well and that since the start which is still missing on the night elf, so it makes sense for them. They should focus on the unrepresented identities of the blood elf in their character model customisations - Ranger, darkfallen like you guys suggested, but they should really work hard on the night elf.

Nightborne get nothing being an allied race, but while this could fit them, they've got their own particular style which is actually quite cool and exclusively theirs. Unless blizzard want to share that with the highborne, which is an option.. however I would happily settle for nightborne player characters looking like the cool npc ones, faces as well as arcane armour, and for the highborne to get exactly what is shown in the OP

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I mean, it would be weird if Shen'dralar worn more extravagant robes than Thalassians. Also,Highborne is a name of state, which still exists but was renamed from Quel'dorei to Sin'dorei during last 13 years.

It shouldnt be weird though, because the highborne were the kings of extravagance, opulence , beauty and wealth. Decadence might be gone after the events thus far, but theyd still favour beauty, extravagance and high class stuff. They are the group that overdid these things.

While their addiction might be solved the core of them is still arcane fascination, beauty, high standing, achievements, and competitively being the best, they are the standard bearers, high elves toned down on that because it was at stupid levels with them. Nightborne have vestiges of this as seen in Suramar, but starving and being low on resources then relying solely on the arcane has created a unique style for them not exactly the same as before.

Remember this Quest?


​

And the ones tha followed?

And the ones that followed? Here is a canon in game description of each of the elven groups from Night elf to Blood elf along the highborne line. The difference between highborne, high elves, blood elves. Each categorised and explained properly. So people don't get confused as to what. And also understand the characteristics of each.





Finally culiminating in a description g of the blood elves.

[Beloren]

To make it funnier, some Suramar assets are perfect for Silvermoon if painted red and golden.

.

I agree with this. But, I sorta wish they don't do it, I like the Silvermoon style, it feels more modern city like with a magical flute spires, I hope they stick more to that theme than add the greek like buildings you see in the Suramar and the night elf cities.

But yes, they could absolutely fit, and there should be a sense of that, they're elven and connected. One is like old city, the other is like modern city. Each has its charm, but they have the elven grace to it.

what would have been bad is if there was zero connection between the two, given that the two elven groups while distinctive have also a lot of similarities and that should always be seen too.

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Nightborne get nothing being an allied race, but while this could fit them, they've got their own particular style which is actually quite cool and exclusively theirs. Unless blizzard want to share that with the highborne, which is an option.. however I would happily settle for nightborne player characters looking like the cool npc ones, faces as well as arcane armour, and for the highborne to get exactly what is shown in the OP

But the highborne style OP is proposing could work for nightborne. @matrix123mko is correct. I'm not saying it should, but it could because they're in the same ballpark

[ravenmoon]

But the highborne style OP is proposing could work for nightborne. @

matrix123mko

is correct. I'm not saying it should, but it could because they're in the same ballpark

I sorta agree, but I don't think blizz should head that way with them anymore. Ever since they took them to the horde, that made it clear they were not going to be a replacement for the highborne, but their own version of them given as a new race.

Nightborne are not highborne replacement, they're a version of night elf on the horde that is

NOT

a substitute nor copy of the highborne. They are flavour variation.

Highborne is night elven, and they're on the night elves. This is why it makes sense for them to have a customisation that looks the part. @

Mace

Yo bro, I'd prefer tbh if they were an allied race too, but I would be satisfied for them to become a distinctive and substantial enough section of the kaldorei, just like the priests and druids are. The Illidari demon hunter/warlock kind are quite distinctive too, thou not as numerous, their impact is substantial - even though it's not to the kaldorei people.

All in all:

• Order of Elune and Highborne - focus on the kaldorei people
  
• Druids and Demon Hunters - focus on global affairs that affect the world(s)

[Astranea]

Gotta wonder if we need a Highborne costumizations megathread. ^^

But aye, very cool examples you picked there, would love to see all of this in game!

[ravenmoon]

Gotta wonder if we need a Highborne costumizations megathread. ^^

But aye, very cool examples you picked there, would love to see all of this in game!

That would be amazing, although I really live the Night elven druidic set up, I like the highborne just as much, and since they havent been done properly yet, it really gives them a chance to be creative.


Ofc some would confused, though they shouldn't. Lore makes it quite clear highborne are Night elves and the caste is rebuilding amongst the Darnassians. High Elves arent highborne, but descendants of a unique group of them. Nightborne n entirely new sub race of night elf that consist of highborne and other castes who've all becomenightborne. The designation isnt even once mentioned by them in Suramar.

clearing the Confusion of Nightborne/Highborne

​I no longer think of the nightborne as highborne replacements. Maybe at first they were going to be, just like they were going to join the alliance. But when they went horde, the highborne continued to provide a vital avenue for the night elves, the arcane part of their heritage and the glamorous side of the race which is definitely not demon hunters, druids or sentinels and huntresses.

They now feel like their own group of people, a bunch of high class night elves that have become a unique more savage /bare looking group. Chronic addiction, withering, arc wine are all unique trials they’ve hard, that fuller, far more bountiful highborne night elf state is gone.

Some may be highborne, but they are not what an original highborne looks like or is.


What we want blizzard to do here is show the original highborne full in its splendour and majesty, having held on to what they are, whether surviving the flight from Eldre’thalas and reunited with their kin or returned the elevated former rank of highborne they once had (returned Darnassian highborne) or new ones altogether.


Now they raise new highborne, highly talented night elves in the arcane, raising both their standards and form and function they seek to restore the noble standing and elevation they were once admired for. .

• I really like the Nightborne, but I’ve come to accept them as a unique type of night elf pre sundering off shoot.
• They have a vibe, and a majesty, but it’s not the glamorous high calling or healthy wholeness of the highborne.
• The Nightwell and their bubble 10k years have changed them into their own unique night elven group.

Yes it’s based off the Kaldorei pre sundering era, it’s derived from how all night elves used to be, but it has become its own thing. I've let go for them as kaldorei, when they joined the horde, stating they would no longer suffer such stagnation and embrace a new future of strength and nobility - well I thought they are writing them to depart from their 10,000 year long kaldorei attachment.

They still remain a version of the old kaldorei but in a new form and it is not the "full" nor original Highborne package.


The Highborne now
If you are looking to see what highborne fully look and feel like without addiction:

1. The model for character and behaviour is Farondis in Azsuna, make them flesh, and dress them up, put in a pristine alive city like Suramar or Zin’Azshari original, swap the darker tone of the nightborne for the more star lit one of the night elf. THAT is the highborne you are looking for

2. Watch Thalyssra’s intro video to Suramar: it shows it perfectly, same city, note how pre nightwell Suramar folk just look and feel different to post nightwell changes , same city, near identical culture, different people.


There is arcane and magic, but no glamour and over flow. The setting is rich but it’s an oppressive dark, not a star lit Moonlight glow wonder. It’s both more drab and austere - showing the starkness from a city long starved of natural resources who’ve had to use the arcane to fully provide everything unlike before where it just enhanced and empowered the natural state. The buildings are easily upheld, but clothes have changed and so has the food which in turn changes the look of the people.

Who And Where Are the Highborne now?
The highborne are amongst the Darnassian night elves now. The main and largest body of Kaldorei. They represent the night elf race, and are the fully evolved unchanged original elf in the Warcraft Universe.

Another group of Highborne are in a cursed unliving state in Azsuna. The Court of Farondis, Prince of the Suramar province and Ruler of Azsuna. They are the games only current interactive experience of Highborne. They are sentient and cognizant, but their curse puts certain limitations on them. They have not been able to break the curse either to restore their lives or pass on to the next.

Maybe Shadowlands would provide a way out of this curse. Either to pass on or miraculously be restored, boosting the night elves a lot.


[matrix123mko]

Atm, yes, ish, but it's not nearly enough, look at the pictures I linked, the beards, the hairstyle, the pose, the eyes, the ornaments, even the skin colour - remember it's for a customisation not a new race, and I think I have included enough viable options to at least make a viable, distinctive highborne cusotmisation, just like when you switch to Dh the Illidari model is obvious, as is the undead model when you switch to some of the undead options. 3 undead options there, so to you would get a highborne option.

This is more than a transmog as you know, the current night elf appearance is wilder, more martial and more rural. The hairstyles are bushier, beards rougher, you want a much sharper and chisled one for highborne, and softer too - these guys are not as arrogant as they use to be in pre-sundering times, the Shen'dralar ate humble pie and awakened for m they daze after Dire maul and the returning Darnassian highborne + new ones, would have a far more grounded and noble demeanour - I'm thinking more l ike yous ee the Farondis, so you would have some arrogant chiselled faces, but also the more noble/regal but kindlier softer one like this.

Visual wise, yes. Night elves need younger and softer faces. Just like blood elves need more arrogant and elder looking faces. May I show you what I imagined for night elves when they announced Shadowlands? Keep in mind that these were just sketches to be polished later.

And subtract chronic addiction, pre-sundering night elves, high elves including weren't drinking mana for food, they had no food shortages, nor did they need their clothes entirely made of arcane. Arcane augmentation to their clothes, sure, but not like the Nightborne.

They were addicted. They just didn't show them as they had infinite amount of drugs.

THe Nightborne chronic addiction is an extreme case that actually changed these night elves to the Nightborne you see.. it is that which is the major differing point. You don't see them in exquisite ball room gowns and high tailored cloaks and apparel like the pictures above. They have a very unique armor set fully arcanised.

Yes, they are biologically different.

However, clothing wise, I disagree with you. First of all, only military and grand magistrix dress in these arcane armors. Civiliians and nobles, like Ly'leth Lunastre wear elaborate robes and costumes. Even their heritage armor is a robe.

Moreover, what you send to me is fan ideas. I can show you nightborne in bride dresses if you want.

It's a good indication of the standard you're amiming for. You want high class, regal, noble, good noble and arrogant noble. They have so many facets, Darnassian highbrone would be more noble ilk, same with Farondis if they ever get used, shend'ralar ones would be more arrogant but the style is regal, very pretty and extravagant.

Well, shen'dralar are usually portrayed in very humble robes.

Additions they could have are things like intricate hairstyles , effects in hair like stars, strs on skin is possibility which hearkens to the night elf original identity as Children of the Stars, these are the leaders of the Children of the Stars, so the stars need to come out more clearly here. Where the priests exalt the moon, , the rest of the society is star focused, you haven't seen much of that because the rudis are so nature focused, and civilians + highborne haven't been shown much so you don't realise or see the children of the Stars as much as you may feel them as children of the forest or the moon.

Don't starry patterns fit void elves more? From night elves only Tyrande was shown with stars on her robes and hair and only on some arts.

It is here you bring that out. You also want some evidence of arcane power and mastery. Demon hunters had the fel glow eyes + horns. Normal night elves have the wild hair, beards and wrinkled faces (may even get antlers), females had the tribal face tattoos of the Order of Elune. So you need something representing the arcane, I would go for glowy hands/feet on arcane power. Tatttoos are already done a lot in both demon hunters and Nightborne. And stars on skin could be something different for the highborne. Bu mainy I think glowing hand tips and feet will make a highborne night elf unmistakable, even with the same build.

Here we need to be careful. Hand glow looks like proc effect or some fist weapons. You know, these things are important. But yes, some subtle, yet visible effects, like lightforged ones are fine.

You mean night elf or blood elf?

Blood elves. Night elves look more like grumpy elders.

Night elf females aren't ugly, however they're a bit macho. They have a 4 pack, the hair is intentionally a little dishevelled, not much, but it's noticeable and notice how their right eyebrow is a bit crooked, as if they've just tumbled out of a tree or come out of fight - fitting the female sentinel /huntresses or warrior priestess role we see in WC3, you don't have the high class regal highborne female or high priestess caster - and this what you would want in the highborne option, so you'll have the eyebrows immaculate and pristine, the hair need.

I quite like night elf females but I agree. We need more delicate options to look like Tyrande in her War Crimes describtion. Regal and cold. Well, that cold could help any females, as even blood elves are more sassy than regal.

No Highborne would look like this, ever! All but one of the other faces are equally bad or worse - from a pretty perspective. Definitely not for highborne but could fit a druid although I feel they were wrong there on the lines and weathered look, Malfurion is what most druids would be like they're sleeping for thousands of years, and immortal and druids meaning they're extremely healthy, they may not be fussy about looking pretty, but they'd be young, ageless. Still, the hair is bushy, like you gather it neatish (they're elves afterall) but you're not that fussed), some of the styles are scraggly too..look at the Wildman hairstyle that has an Einstein like feel to it). Also apart from the trimmed beard, the beards are all a bit rough, which smacks of druid.

None of the male faces are particularly good looking, the youngest one passes for okay even a little handsome on some angles, , but the rest are old and ugly. Not what highborne would wear or look like at all.

Look at my first picture, and the faces option for examples of what I am talking about. This is what a night elf highborne male should look more like:

I would just reuse nightborne faces. These are young and handsome. At the other hand, nightborne need some old man faces. Oculeth looked like one of my teachers.

There are lots of mages too, Liadrin is just getting a lot of spotlight because they woefully neglected tehpriest/light side of the blood elves in TBC, focusing too heaviy on the arcane. WC2 high elves, were famous for being as much priests as they were mages.. yet in TBC, all of a sudden you felt that mage was the only identity for the blood elf. The Farstriders took a backseat, as did the priests. So now they're just showing the other parts. The mages still play a role.

No. Priest in TBC was just shown differently, as blood elves had a societal change. Keep in mind that most of priests died in Third War fighting for either Lordaeron, Quel'thalas or Dalaran. The rest chose to abandon the Light. Farstriders were more visible on Horde side as the infantry of blood elves. However, mages have always been the focus. Arcane magic is the sole reason why Quel'thalas was founded and Warcraft 3 features blood elves as mostly mages. Even Sylvanas used arcane magic.

Currently mages are neglected. Hathorel and that boss in Zuldazar were two exceptions. What is horrible is that the main motif of this race: "knowledge above everything else" has been obliterated in the moment when Lor'themar banished Alleria, although Void can be easily researched in any blood elf territory outside of Quel'danas. Even if they wanted to be careful, they could go to Lordaeron or Orgrimmar.

New blood knights aren't what they originally were. They used to be first mortals to harness Light as a magic that can be woven. Now they are boring paladins who fight for honor and virtue.

Kael'thas is the only hope for blood elves. Maybe they will regain their proud but scholarly identity when their rightful king shows up.

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I agree with this. But, I sorta wish they don't do it, I like the Silvermoon style, it feels more modern city like with a magical flute spires, I hope they stick more to that theme than add the greek like buildings you see in the Suramar and the night elf cities.

But yes, they could absolutely fit, and there should be a sense of that, they're elven and connected. One is like old city, the other is like modern city. Each has its charm, but they have the elven grace to it.

what would have been bad is if there was zero connection between the two, given that the two elven groups while distinctive have also a lot of similarities and that should always be seen too.

Silvermoon architecture is a mix of both. I think they will get the best out of them.

But the highborne style OP is proposing could work for nightborne. @matrix123mko is correct. I'm not saying it should, but it could because they're in the same ballpark

Well, what I mean is that nightborne a have little faces and hairstyles. Whatever highborne would use, it would be in-lore known to nightborne. They could use that.

[Mace]

Visual wise, yes. Night elves need younger and softer faces. Just like blood elves need more arrogant and elder looking faces. May I show you what I imagined for night elves when they announced Shadowlands? Keep in mind that these were just sketches to be polished later.

You've got a talent. I'd definely agree in addition to a highborne customisation set, the existing male druid one could use some of those beards you sketched, and the leaf in hair.. the highborne counterpart would instead have stars (and the priest class access to it ofc, they are Kaldorei too, and ones focused on the heavens (i.e. moon and stars, not nature. We mustn't forget them.

They were addicted. They just didn't show them as they had infinite amount of drugs.

Oh.. big time, until they were cut of from it, and then it really showed. I don't tink addiction is the right word at this stage, this thing has become their food, and their means to cloth themselves, ican you say you are addicted to food? or chronically dependent on it - to the point where you will devolve and die a mindless death without it.

Yes, they are biologically different

However, clothing wise, I disagree with you. First of all, only military and grand magistrix dress in these arcane armors. Civiliians and nobles, like Ly'leth Lunastre wear elaborate robes and costumes. Even their heritage armor is a robe..

Biology yes, but it's not much, it's more like the difference between east Africans and west or mixed race Africans. Still it;s not like Warcraft actually scientifically explains. Visually judging, they're gaunt, with slightly different ears. It's a change, but it's not a drastic change. However it's a sufficient enough change to be classified differently.

The clothes are not extravagant though, they've got a style yes, but not very colourful, not very aloof. Compare that to say Maiev's Warden kit and cloak, or Azshara's gown - the rich fullness is gone from them, even though they have a wealth of sorts.

The story goes that they ran out of food, materials for clothing too were pretty scarce and limited as you'd expect in a bubble without the natural cycle, animals and others that could produced the quantities you needed being around. This is why they turn to rely even more completely on the arcane,

Moreover, what you send to me is fan ideas. I can show you nightborne in bride dresses if you want.

Absolutely, it's just visual images that capture the essence of the highborne. You have to note, Nightborne have a very specific look they are introduced and defined as. Highborne on the other hand have their beauty wealth and extravagance at the pinnacle of a great civilization and as it's most noble and distinguished peers, much remarked on from the very introduction of the night elves, and so we must follow those cues of of that. After those descriptions, we don't really expect bare chested and highborne like this



We expect, the gowns we see Azshara in and the maidens of her court, the males, and even in the un touched up night elf models, when you visit Azsuna, Zin'Azshari, we see them in full clothing apparel, with the fancier caster gear pieces blizzard designed being used on them. For Nightborne, they could have gone with that, they certainly did for the city, but not for the people, opting for a different style to the highborne we've been described and caught glimpses of, as they show us a changed group of night elves.

It's hardly going to be that really cool arcane armor if it's fully covered up, and the ones who aren't they are designed to reflect the darker pall on this sub-group.

Well, shen'dralar are usually portrayed in very humble robes.

Shen'dralar did not get a whole new set done for them. When blizzard did the broken isles they upgraded the night elf architecture, both the ruins (Azsuna) and the city (Suramar) are now the standard representation of night elf civilization and they are a the upgraded versions of the ones you see in Kalimdor. When they went back to do Darkshore and Zin'Azshari, it was the legion sets they used, both for ruins and trees, not the classic ones we see from Classic to WoD.

Shen'dralar weren't specifically designed for, the Nightborne were.

Don't starry patterns fit void elves more? From night elves only Tyrande was shown with stars on her robes and hair and only on some arts.

Really? You don't get more stars than children of the stars. And while void elves do have that blackhole type star thing, the focus is the void of deep space not really the stars in it's very specific colour shade (which I must say looks quite good - their artists do the job well).

You would want stars for kaldorei ofc, they are the elves most associated with the stars and the moon. Just because void elves have a version doesn't mean that's the end of the story let's pack up and leave.

Here we need to be careful. Hand glow looks like proc effect or some fist weapons. You know, these things are important. But yes, some subtle, yet visible effects, like lightforged ones are fine.

Agreed, you don't want proc... I'm thinking something along the line of the Nightborne above, that's just the right amount.

Blood elves. Night elves look more like grumpy elders.

Too true, and it's weird, whiles fine I undersand you going for an older man look, but it's not even lore wise. Thefemales look good enough, the males should actually be even younger and more immortal looking, they spent most of the long vigil asleep - but I get why they went with that look..it's the weathered look, being outdoors all your life sort of thing .. except the lore doesn't match up.

1. Your immortal
2. You're far more healthy than humans being enhanced nature wielders
3. You have magical power sustaining you

It was the wrong look to go for, but I get it, and who's to say despite all those things their faces can't look weathered. Still, their are no options that capture the beauty of the elf in the male night elf. Plenty in the female, though.

I quite like night elf females but I agree. We need more delicate options to look like Tyrande in her War Crimes describtion. Regal and cold. Well, that cold could help any females, as even blood elves are more sassy than regal.

Spot on. You need a variety of looks that capture the essence of the various aspects of the groups you are showing.

In the highborne case, you have:

Face Type 1: the Shen'dralar highborne -hey'd be a more cold, extravagant, elite - see the first pic I posted.. you need that sort of face and beard, it fits.



They'd also have richer and the most ornate things, having been the only ones effectively never departing from being highborne. You can imagine now restored and rebuilding the caste/order - they'd be concerned with every detail, they'd want the best clothes, refashion their items of power, and they'd be grand. It's been many years since Dire Maul, and they've sent excursions in, they'd also want to carry themselves in a way that would command respect both visually and morally, - remind their kin of their high calling - or feel it is their duty to restore the fullness of Kaldorei society - since priests only care about Elune and temples, and druids about nature.

Face 2 - The Returned Darnassian Highborne & Farondis Court Highborne Type:
You'd also need faces for this.a) returned Darnassian highborne - those who agreed with the ban and upheld it, turning to other things like druidsm then returning to the arcane and their highborne heritage and b) the Farondis Court Highborne. Grouped together because they capture in essence the purest ideal of the highborne, the Farondis defied Azshara rejecting all that nonsense and acting swiftly, decisively to stop it, even if it meant destroying the well, this is what you expect of a true noble, and how you would envision the highborne caster were originally like before addiction and hubris stemming from Azshara soured them. The returned Darnassians would reflect this well having faithfull and wisely done their time in the vigil. These types will command the respect of the druids and priests, because they either never gave in to the evil or hubris (Farondis - not to mention the first recorded to have rebelled against Azshara over the Legion, when Malfurion accuses the Shen'dralar of doing nothing whilebeing fuly aware of Azshara's mad scheme, the Farondis actually did) or they actually faithfully upheld the ban resisting their calling, deepest desires and addictions not following Darth'remar's bunch but staying to share the burden (Darnassian highborne).



They would have the gentler more wisened face, like my avatar pic, slightly less gilded and rich than the first, but still princely and elegant.


3. The New Talent - New Highborne recruits:
Finally you have the new Darnassian youngsters, the ones who've picked the arcane, handpicked out by the shendrlar - they are young night elves who likely never felt in their own skin for either druidsm or the priesthood, constantly drawn to magic but having no avenue to pursue or find out their real calling.. they'd have a face more like these:





Night Elves Look Quite Good In Official Non-Playable Representation
Borrowing from https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-savage!/page3
And yes, Tyrande is very well done, drop dead level gorgeous - her beauty rivalled Azshara's it was said, second only to the Queen (who we know had her throne magical enhance perceptions of her too), they did her well



Look at Malfurion too. Now that is a good looking male.


The night elves come out looking like elves and pretty at that, even the males, when in cinematics, official art etc. Just the ingame models don't reflect that well on the males.

I would just reuse nightborne faces. These are young and handsome. At the other hand, nightborne need some old man faces. Oculeth looked like one of my teachers.

It's an option, but one I hope they don't do. They should aim more for good looking faces. Occuleth does capture the very snubby , highly arrogant night elf in the pre-sundering times, they are still stuck in that when we meet them, though some of them are more amicable. The face fits. The highborne we have now, while still having airs , it's more aloof, distant, cold - Think Vakarian in SWTOR Eternal throne (the Emperor). And the pictures I linked. When you do the Estulan quests in Feralas, you feel though highborne he is really kaldorei, reclusive, the sadness, now in your right mind of the present world which is nothing compared to the wonder, majesty and vibrance of the paradise it use to be. Broken, a pale shadow of its former self (like Mordant said).. that is what you want to aim for. when you add a way of portraying a bit of arrogance and vanity.

The first pic,. the one I tink suits the Shen'dralar is exactly the face you're looking for. Then you have the other. You are looking to use a good looking face similar to this


To frame them around. - although this is more the younger highborne type.


There is stuff out there, the night elves are meant to be attractive, beautiful, and have a full and complete set of variations It's never just been one type - like say forest elf, or female warrior - nor has it been "oh the savage elf"... they're elves, dark elves, beautiful, exotic, and I'd to say it but the in game model did not do the sort of justice their other portrays both officially and fanart wise do as others are pointing out.

[matrix123mko]

Off course blood elves should get some things, not a mirror of this highborne proposal though, they already do the high class fancy noble and magisterial very well and that since the start which is still missing on the night elf, so it makes sense for them. They should focus on the unrepresented identities of the blood elf in their character model customisations - Ranger, darkfallen like you guys suggested, but they should really work hard on the night elf.

Darkfallen is tricky because they are currently not part of Quel'thalas. It could serve better as an option for death knight or Forsaken. Forsaken really have little options given their potential. They could have had more skeletal options, elven options, orcish(second war orcs) options and so on.

Magisterial identity has some options but we miss these fancy crowns and more elderly faces. Currently main focus of blood elf customisations is to give you handsome men and pretty girls but they aren't as regal as nightborne or proposed highborne.



But I agree that they need some ranger options too. If I was to design blood elf options I would have two focuses: arcane magic and rangers.

It shouldnt be weird though, because the highborne were the kings of extravagance, opulence , beauty and wealth. Decadence might be gone after the events thus far, but theyd still favour beauty, extravagance and high class stuff. They are the group that overdid these things.

Thalassians are kings of extravagance aswell. They are the only race that has ornate starting zone sets.

Remember this Quest?

I think we will be talking about it fourth time.

While high elves are surely more humble than their ancestors, they bear hints of pride. While they consider themselves disciplined, they don't see their weaknesses. I think their modesty is not as true as they think. The main difference between high elves and highborne is that high elves let other races exist. However, they were unable to conquer them. You can clearly see that Anasterian isn't a friend of humanity, he helped them only when he needed Alliance to protect Quel'thalas, later leaving them(which was later the reason why Garithos hated blood elves) to themselves. It was Alleria and priests who worked with humans for entire time.

Difference between Anasterian and Alleria, between negligence and action, between pride and modesty, between golden spires and military tent, was what led to split in Thalassian society between sin'dorei and quel'dorei. What I want to say, high elves had blood elves inside them before but only after destruction of Sunwell they dared to show their true colours: red and gold.

As for the quest, the tragedy of blood elves is that they were well prepared to avoid any mistakes of their ancestors but their frail bodies betrayed them anyway. If highborne had the same knowledge, they would manage to harness Crystal of Zin'malor.

- - - Updated - - -

You've got a talent. I'd definely agree in addition to a highborne customisation set, the existing male druid one could use some of those beards you sketched, and the leaf in hair.. the highborne counterpart would instead have stars (and the priest class access to it ofc, they are Kaldorei too, and ones focused on the heavens (i.e. moon and stars, not nature. We mustn't forget them.

I wanted to add all the night elf male needs on one image. The priestly part I skipped because priesthood is for women.

Oh.. big time, until they were cut of from it, and then it really showed. I don't tink addiction is the right word at this stage, this thing has become their food, and their means to cloth themselves, ican you say you are addicted to food? or chronically dependent on it - to the point where you will devolve and die a mindless death without it.

I think arcane robes aren't a sign of addiction. The hunger is.

Biology yes, but it's not much, it's more like the difference between east Africans and west or mixed race Africans. Still it;s not like Warcraft actually scientifically explains. Visually judging, they're gaunt, with slightly different ears. It's a change, but it's not a drastic change. However it's a sufficient enough change to be classified differently.

They have Slavic cheekbones and different eyes. Well, the unplayable ones, not our cheap version.

The clothes are not extravagant though, they've got a style yes, but not very colourful, not very aloof. Compare that to say Maiev's Warden kit and cloak, or Azshara's gown - the rich fullness is gone from them, even though they have a wealth of sorts.

I think Valtrois has pretty aloof clothing. Elisande too, although she prefers skimpy Azshara style.

The story goes that they ran out of food, materials for clothing too were pretty scarce and limited as you'd expect in a bubble without the natural cycle, animals and others that could produced the quantities you needed being around. This is why they turn to rely even more completely on the arcane,

They have lots of shaldorei silk bolts around the city. I think they recycle it somehow.

Absolutely, it's just visual images that capture the essence of the highborne. You have to note, Nightborne have a very specific look they are introduced and defined as. Highborne on the other hand have their beauty wealth and extravagance at the pinnacle of a great civilization and as it's most noble and distinguished peers, much remarked on from the very introduction of the night elves, and so we must follow those cues of of that. After those descriptions, we don't really expect bare chested and highborne like this



We expect, the gowns we see Azshara in and the maidens of her court, the males, and even in the un touched up night elf models, when you visit Azsuna, Zin'Azshari, we see them in full clothing apparel, with the fancier caster gear pieces blizzard designed being used on them. For Nightborne, they could have gone with that, they certainly did for the city, but not for the people, opting for a different style to the highborne we've been described and caught glimpses of, as they show us a changed group of night elves.

It's hardly going to be that really cool arcane armor if it's fully covered up, and the ones who aren't they are designed to reflect the darker pall on this sub-group.

You have to keep in mind that Shen'dralar aren't the palace group. They do not wear as much elegant jewelry as other highborne. Also, highborne sometimes revealed themselves much.

Shen'dralar did not get a whole new set done for them. When blizzard did the broken isles they upgraded the night elf architecture, both the ruins (Azsuna) and the city (Suramar) are now the standard representation of night elf civilization and they are a the upgraded versions of the ones you see in Kalimdor. When they went back to do Darkshore and Zin'Azshari, it was the legion sets they used, both for ruins and trees, not the classic ones we see from Classic to WoD.

Shen'dralar weren't specifically designed for, the Nightborne were.

Yet they haven't updated Mordent's model for Darkshore. What I want to say is that this one specific group has their own kind of clothing.

Really? You don't get more stars than children of the stars. And while void elves do have that blackhole type star thing, the focus is the void of deep space not really the stars in it's very specific colour shade (which I must say looks quite good - their artists do the job well).

You would want stars for kaldorei ofc, they are the elves most associated with the stars and the moon. Just because void elves have a version doesn't mean that's the end of the story let's pack up and leave.

They don't have stars on their hair naturally. We haven't seem anyone conjure stars on their head. Eratreus is one specific example who is also nightborne and maniac of astromancy and you already said that arcane armors aren't highborne thing. Star hair sounds more like some extravagant upgrade, like Night Warrior or such. It is like asking for phoenix hair for blood elves. It is cool but it seems to be quite too much without further lore explanation.

Agreed, you don't want proc... I'm thinking something along the line of the Nightborne above, that's just the right amount.

Yes, it looks quite well, at least with bracers. Without them it might be too strong but that needs to be tested.

Too true, and it's weird, whiles fine I undersand you going for an older man look, but it's not even lore wise. Thefemales look good enough, the males should actually be even younger and more immortal looking, they spent most of the long vigil asleep - but I get why they went with that look..it's the weathered look, being outdoors all your life sort of thing .. except the lore doesn't match up.

1. Your immortal
2. You're far more healthy than humans being enhanced nature wielders
3. You have magical power sustaining you

It was the wrong look to go for, but I get it, and who's to say despite all those things their faces can't look weathered. Still, their are no options that capture the beauty of the elf in the male night elf. Plenty in the female, though.

Yes, life magic should be the best to support youth. However, as we know from War Crimes, Malfurion is ugly because of his partial animal transformations.

Face Type 1: the Shen'dralar highborne -hey'd be a more cold, extravagant, elite - see the first pic I posted.. you need that sort of face and beard, it fits.

They'd also have richer and the most ornate things, having been the only ones effectively never departing from being highborne. You can imagine now restored and rebuilding the caste/order - they'd be concerned with every detail, they'd want the best clothes, refashion their items of power, and they'd be grand. It's been many years since Dire Maul, and they've sent excursions in, they'd also want to carry themselves in a way that would command respect both visually and morally, - remind their kin of their high calling - or feel it is their duty to restore the fullness of Kaldorei society - since priests only care about Elune and temples, and druids about nature.

Well, I can see them rebuilding the elite of Kaldorei society, bringing science and art. However, I don't think they would be the most regal. As I said, except Tortheldrin, they have very humble style.

Face 2 - The Returned Darnassian Highborne & Farondis Court Highborne Type:
You'd also need faces for this.a) returned Darnassian highborne - those who agreed with the ban and upheld it, turning to other things like druidsm then returning to the arcane and their highborne heritage and b) the Farondis Court Highborne. Grouped together because they capture in essence the purest ideal of the highborne, the Farondis defied Azshara rejecting all that nonsense and acting swiftly, decisively to stop it, even if it meant destroying the well, this is what you expect of a true noble, and how you would envision the highborne caster were originally like before addiction and hubris stemming from Azshara soured them. The returned Darnassians would reflect this well having faithfull and wisely done their time in the vigil. These types will command the respect of the druids and priests, because they either never gave in to the evil or hubris (Farondis - not to mention the first recorded to have rebelled against Azshara over the Legion, when Malfurion accuses the Shen'dralar of doing nothing whilebeing fuly aware of Azshara's mad scheme, the Farondis actually did) or they actually faithfully upheld the ban resisting their calling, deepest desires and addictions not following Darth'remar's bunch but staying to share the burden (Darnassian highborne).



They would have the gentler more wisened face, like my avatar pic, slightly less gilded and rich than the first, but still princely and elegant.

First of all, Farondis is dead and his people are dead. Sorry but they aren't part of Alliance and are unlikely to ever become.

Also, what Darnassian highborne? I don't know any. Maitre became a hermit and the rest has been banished by Malfurion.

3. The New Talent - New Highborne recruits:
Finally you have the new Darnassian youngsters, the ones who've picked the arcane, handpicked out by the shendrlar - they are young night elves who likely never felt in their own skin for either druidsm or the priesthood, constantly drawn to magic but having no avenue to pursue or find out their real calling.. they'd have a face more like these:

Sure. This is what the playable night elf mage is.

The night elves come out looking like elves and pretty at that, even the males, when in cinematics, official art etc. Just the ingame models don't reflect that well on the males.

Yes, I don't like when models look completely different from what you expect. Gallywix before BfA was disappointing.

It's an option, but one I hope they don't do. They should aim more for good looking faces. Occuleth does capture the very snubby , highly arrogant night elf in the pre-sundering times, they are still stuck in that when we meet them, though some of them are more amicable. The face fits. The highborne we have now, while still having airs , it's more aloof, distant, cold - Think Vakarian in SWTOR Eternal throne (the Emperor). And the pictures I linked. When you do the Estulan quests in Feralas, you feel though highborne he is really kaldorei, reclusive, the sadness, now in your right mind of the present world which is nothing compared to the wonder, majesty and vibrance of the paradise it use to be. Broken, a pale shadow of its former self (like Mordant said).. that is what you want to aim for. when you add a way of portraying a bit of arrogance and vanity.

You didn't interpret me correctly, my fault. What I wanted to say is that playable nightborne faces seem young and noble and would be good for night elf highborne. NPC ones are more for Horde elves. I also complained about playable nightborne not having that cool old and proud face of Oculeth.

There is stuff out there, the night elves are meant to be attractive, beautiful, and have a full and complete set of variations It's never just been one type - like say forest elf, or female warrior - nor has it been "oh the savage elf"... they're elves, dark elves, beautiful, exotic, and I'd to say it but the in game model did not do the sort of justice their other portrays both officially and fanart wise do as others are pointing out.

Sure. This is what they lack. They, like humans, can't look good in game. However, HotS Alextrasza is even worse disappointment.

[ravenmoon]

Darkfallen is tricky because they are currently not part of Quel'thalas. It could serve better as an option for death knight or Forsaken. Forsaken really have little options given their potential. They could have had more skeletal options, elven options, orcish(second war orcs) options and so on.

The minute they cross the forsaken into a non-human undead, they're adding another race to them. Notice how the DKs, the undead versions keep to their races and ar enot part of the forsaken. THe Dark rangers, the elven undead are exclusively the personal guard to Sylvanas, they are more an extension of her than forsaken or horde. So when she leaves the horde, the dark rangers are all part of the hunted group.

You could be right, but it is just another example of a missing customisation for Blood elves. Bear in mind they could also be an allied

Magisterial identity has some options but we miss these fancy crowns and more elderly faces. Currently main focus of blood elf customisations is to give you handsome men and pretty girls but they aren't as regal as nightborne or proposed highborne.

I see what you mean here. Yes they are missing that, but that is a ruler of the blood elves not an entire caste/group thing like it is amongs the night elves with the highborne. Remember customisations are more for representing a playable group of the race that doesn't have proper options currently in the player model that can play it (like the highborne night elf, or the Ranger farstrider Blood elf)

Do you think that would make sense on the blood elves seeing there is no leader elite group amongst the blood elves or high elves, like there is amongst the night elves (which is what the highborne are) or the Nightborne (which is what their elites are in Suramar) . And that's fine, night elven society is different. I always viewed the high elves as more like a modern democracy like England, there isn't a lower class, everyone is equal. With the night elves, the highborne caste is an elite class had a more prominent role back in the day, but today in the egalitarian post vigil community where no one cares if you're nobility, they are more like the birtish aristocracy, nobles with no real executive power, but who are proud of their nobility and high standing even though it doesn't mean anything to the people.

This is why you can have a highborne customisation and it's meant to be more glamorous and regal and specifically for an entire group of which all night elf mages would be part of, but not necessarily limited to them in this new post vigil world if blizzard want to make it so. The way I think of it is to remember that the high elves were an all highborne group that formed a nation and became a race of their own. there is no elite class amongst all elites, it's just people of different rankings, but they were so tight knit, the vision of Darth'remar was a free society where all magic could be practised freely and responsibly, as such only the King or leader is of a higher station and him even not quite that much - think of the prime minister - you respect him, but it's not the sort of monarchal near worship of Azshara or the nobility of the middle ages would have had.

I would have expected a similar thing in Eldre'thalas, however it's different hwen they rejoin the night elves. Unlike the high elves, this isn't a new generation, or a new society reformed after a near death and long trial. No, it's the nobility class, that returns now to people who to them are not noble. Now those people, like modern day brits may not care whether they're Lordlings or not, because they have no executive power, however the nobles are fully aware they are nobles, and they carry themselves so to, and if you follow the British example, of the Queen, they instead behave as the examples and leaders they have been - (though not always, with the entitlement and arrogance and the uglier bits sometimes coming out - but mostly scandal free) and generally while a lot don't care, some still do look up to them as examples.

High elf society would never be like that, there is no "lower" class or the masses to return to like the Shen'dralar have, the high evles became a new people, an all high elf (no longer highborne) race

But I agree that they need some ranger options too. If I was to design blood elf options I would have two focuses: arcane magic and rangers.

Ah something like this comes to mind

This concept people used in the high elf thread, really captures what the ranger customisation style for the blood elf could be like.

Thalassians are kings of extravagance as well. They are the only race that has ornate starting zone sets.

Agreed, I don't deny that, but remember Thalassian kings are not a people group, like the highborne, so they don't really qualify as a customisation option, however some transmog Belf crown sets could be available.


I think we will be talking about it fourth time.

While high elves are surely more humble than their ancestors, they bear hints of pride. While they consider themselves disciplined, they don't see their weaknesses. I think their modesty is not as true as they think. The main difference between high elves and highborne is that high elves let other races exist. However, they were unable to conquer them. You can clearly see that Anasterian isn't a friend of humanity, he helped them only when he needed Alliance to protect Quel'thalas, later leaving them(which was later the reason why Garithos hated blood elves) to themselves. It was Alleria and priests who worked with humans for entire time.

Difference between Anasterian and Alleria, between negligence and action, between pride and modesty, between golden spires and military tent, was what led to split in Thalassian society between sin'dorei and quel'dorei. What I want to say, high elves had blood elves inside them before but only after destruction of Sunwell they dared to show their true colours: red and gold.

As for the quest, the tragedy of blood elves is that they were well prepared to avoid any mistakes of their ancestors but their frail bodies betrayed them anyway. If highborne had the same knowledge, they would manage to harness Crystal of Zin'malor. [/QUOTE]

I think the quest nicely highlights the distinction between highborne of the night elves and the high elves and the blood elves - it's in the game.. but most people aren't even aware of this. I keep harping on to them about what the game and the lore tells about night elves, highborne , high elves etc.. I get head canon thrown in my face.. and makes me wonder if they actually follow the lore or just want to believe what they want.

Those people who think night elves are some sort of feral worgen/saberon race - I'm like wow, desire for a more aggressive night elf has warped perception, like those who felt the night elves were invincible in WC3, just need to play it again. Blizzard continues to be very true to what they have outlined in or given to each group.

Those player only need open their eyes and see what is actually given in front of them. No use denying the arcane heritage or acumen of night elves when iti's all over their lore, or making them into a savage race when that has never been their presentation.

Anyway, I digress, needed to get that off my chest - its not directed t you btw.

Racial Fidelity

I think the difference between Anasterian and Alleria is acceptable, being of thes ame race doesn't mean everyone thinks exactly alike, behaves the same way or shares the same goals or ideals which is why if you're realistically portraying a people or group, you're going to have differences, you are going to have several factions and groups.. and is one of the things I really like about Warcraft races.

You see each race having complexities, different things amongst them, they're not monotone. which is why I keep praising the existence of the highborne, demon hunters and push for more of the temple priest (rather than the sentinel priest) because blizzard didn't design the night elves as forest elf one trick pony - on e thing only, the elves feel like an entire race, that has different factions, different peoples who have different priorities, different expertise, they're not just amazing at one thing only like hey forest magic, but at several. And each race has its own things.

Yes there is overlap, even across the racial barrier..elves and humans, elves and trolls, humans and orcs, draenei and orcs etc, however each race has their own unique presentation of it.

night elf arcana, forestry , religion is all unique - and while having overlap with blood elven and human, it 's a different emphasis and different grade. Their foresty nature thing is different from that of say shaman, it's a different feel, their magic more purely arcane with stars and moons ha s a different feel to human/high elf/kirin'tor which is more frost/fire prominent - but ofc there is overlap.

What blizzard seemed to do originally was design and pan out the story of the various races and develop them organically. So highborne have overlap with high elves because of the connection, they are in the same world afterall, but the story is different and is developed differently in the night elves, the night elves continue telling a story that starts with their utopic advanced magical civilization that has undergone a tragedy of world ending proportions a period of 10k years penance duty, and a return to interacting with the normal world, with all their elements involved.

Some player s have got it all wrong when they thing.. oh.. blood elves do the high magic thing, so night elves shouldn't .. or night elves do the forest magic thing so high elves shouldn't. This is not how the stories or races are designed at all. Night elves are not designed to be forest elves, but this dual dark elf meets forest elf arcane and nature in its own tileset.. it doesn't matter that blood elves do high magic, they're different, they're day elves, sun focused, bright colours interfacing with the human world, the night elves are the greater and older original elven form who took everything to an extreme..that is their character, the magic is more purer, more extreme whether in the arcane or nature .. it's like their highborne totally focus on the arcane, their druids totally focus on nature, .. whereas their high elven counterparts are less extreme, less developed in those and more moderate - which fits the story, the night elves are much older and have done all of that in their story, they're meant to be that way, and so the way they would carry on today would be different.

The highborne are not high elves nor are they Nightborne, so some people think there is no need for highborne, which is stupid, it's like saying there's no need for human kirin'tor mages, because Stormwind has mages, or blood elves have mages.. mages have a part in human lore and their own story, they 're different from high elf mages, just because one group has one, doesn't mean the other shouldn't it, when ti has it's own story particular to that group.

the highborne are all about the night elf society they are part of, and what the night elf nobility is like to day in the midst of 10k years after their folly ended their civilization and they find themselves coming together again, facing a new situation, it doesn't matter that high elves are highborne descendants or Nightborne are former night elves, their stories are different and they don't some how invalidate the highborne or make them irrelevant, because the highborne are not for the high/blood elf story, nor for the Nightborne now. They're a part of the night elf story and have their ow portion.

And that's good, night elves are quite monotonous and boring without the glamour of the highborne, which is why they need a bigger presentation done properly, likewise they're also too tame without the razor edge of the demon hunters and wardens. Each group brings something different to the group making them more interesting but ultimately it's just part of their story that is developed.

The developer doesn't go.. oh blood elves have arcane magic so humans, draenei, night elves shouldn't.. no they created night elves with arcane magic in the first place and actually the source and start of it, and made it a part of their story for their 15k year history, and they continue to develop the night elf story with all the strands they gave it, they don't look at the high elves or the nightborne or humans or draenei and go, oh we've done priesthood here so we don't.. no. They develop what they've given each group and have also given the overlap, so there's is interaction too but each is its own.


it's much better this way, races feel realistic, alive, diverse, with powerful dynamics based on their own history and characteristics that drive them and gives them interesting things they're about that can lead to many more stories or influence stories down the line.

[matrix123mko]

The minute they cross the forsaken into a non-human undead, they're adding another race to them. Notice how the DKs, the undead versions keep to their races and ar enot part of the forsaken. THe Dark rangers, the elven undead are exclusively the personal guard to Sylvanas, they are more an extension of her than forsaken or horde. So when she leaves the horde, the dark rangers are all part of the hunted group.

Not all rangers follow Sylvanas. I think Velonara chose to follow Lillian Voss. And not all undead elves are dark rangers.

As for the rest of the races, the reason why there are no dwarf or elf Forsaken is only the budget. Blizzard didn't want to make separate models for less numerous groups of Forsaken. Keep in mind that during third war not only humans died and were resurrected.

You could be right, but it is just another example of a missing customisation for Blood elves. Bear in mind they could also be an allied

They are separate race. They are undead.

I see what you mean here. Yes they are missing that, but that is a ruler of the blood elves not an entire caste/group thing like it is amongs the night elves with the highborne. Remember customisations are more for representing a playable group of the race that doesn't have proper options currently in the player model that can play it (like the highborne night elf, or the Ranger farstrider Blood elf)

Do not worry, we also have elven archmagi.

Do you think that would make sense on the blood elves seeing there is no leader elite group amongst the blood elves or high elves, like there is amongst the night elves (which is what the highborne are) or the Nightborne (which is what their elites are in Suramar) . And that's fine, night elven society is different. I always viewed the high elves as more like a modern democracy like England, there isn't a lower class, everyone is equal. With the night elves, the highborne caste is an elite class had a more prominent role back in the day, but today in the egalitarian post vigil community where no one cares if you're nobility, they are more like the birtish aristocracy, nobles with no real executive power, but who are proud of their nobility and high standing even though it doesn't mean anything to the people.

This is why you can have a highborne customisation and it's meant to be more glamorous and regal and specifically for an entire group of which all night elf mages would be part of, but not necessarily limited to them in this new post vigil world if blizzard want to make it so. The way I think of it is to remember that the high elves were an all highborne group that formed a nation and became a race of their own. there is no elite class amongst all elites, it's just people of different rankings, but they were so tight knit, the vision of Darth'remar was a free society where all magic could be practised freely and responsibly, as such only the King or leader is of a higher station and him even not quite that much - think of the prime minister - you respect him, but it's not the sort of monarchal near worship of Azshara or the nobility of the middle ages would have had.

I would have expected a similar thing in Eldre'thalas, however it's different hwen they rejoin the night elves. Unlike the high elves, this isn't a new generation, or a new society reformed after a near death and long trial. No, it's the nobility class, that returns now to people who to them are not noble. Now those people, like modern day brits may not care whether they're Lordlings or not, because they have no executive power, however the nobles are fully aware they are nobles, and they carry themselves so to, and if you follow the British example, of the Queen, they instead behave as the examples and leaders they have been - (though not always, with the entitlement and arrogance and the uglier bits sometimes coming out - but mostly scandal free) and generally while a lot don't care, some still do look up to them as examples.

Sure. They are a society of equal nobles. All of them have right to wear crowns. Mages would naturally be more elegant as they do not need practical armors. It fits blood elf fantasy perfectly, as they consider themselves above other races, like humans.

High elf society would never be like that, there is no "lower" class or the masses to return to like the Shen'dralar have, the high evles became a new people, an all high elf (no longer highborne) race

They kept the name "Quel'dorei" for a reason. They have "Lament of Highborne". They are still a proud race that considers night elves below them.

This concept people used in the high elf thread, really captures what the ranger customisation style for the blood elf could be like.

I am not a fan but I agree that we need this option.

Agreed, I don't deny that, but remember Thalassian kings are not a people group, like the highborne, so they don't really qualify as a customisation option, however some transmog Belf crown sets could be available.

I named the whole race "kings" metaphorically. I wanted to say that they are more extravagant than other races.

As for the quest, the tragedy of blood elves is that they were well prepared to avoid any mistakes of their ancestors but their frail bodies betrayed them anyway. If highborne had the same knowledge, they would manage to harness Crystal of Zin'malor.

I think the quest nicely highlights the distinction between highborne of the night elves and the high elves and the blood elves - it's in the game.. but most people aren't even aware of this. I keep harping on to them about what the game and the lore tells about night elves, highborne , high elves etc.. I get head canon thrown in my face.. and makes me wonder if they actually follow the lore or just want to believe what they want.

Those people who think night elves are some sort of feral worgen/saberon race - I'm like wow, desire for a more aggressive night elf has warped perception, like those who felt the night elves were invincible in WC3, just need to play it again. Blizzard continues to be very true to what they have outlined in or given to each group.

Those player only need open their eyes and see what is actually given in front of them. No use denying the arcane heritage or acumen of night elves when iti's all over their lore, or making them into a savage race when that has never been their presentation.

Anyway, I digress, needed to get that off my chest - its not directed t you btw.[/QUOTE]

Savagery is an important part of them. Like it or not but sentinels or druids are no different from their troll ancestors. Highborne and priests are more like Zandalari, then, civilised. It is quite interesting thing to consider: elves are descendants of trolls.

I think the difference between Anasterian and Alleria is acceptable, being of thes ame race doesn't mean everyone thinks exactly alike, behaves the same way or shares the same goals or ideals which is why if you're realistically portraying a people or group, you're going to have differences, you are going to have several factions and groups.. and is one of the things I really like about Warcraft races.

I just want Blizzard to add some options that better reflect both of these polarisations.

You see each race having complexities, different things amongst them, they're not monotone. which is why I keep praising the existence of the highborne, demon hunters and push for more of the temple priest (rather than the sentinel priest) because blizzard didn't design the night elves as forest elf one trick pony - on e thing only, the elves feel like an entire race, that has different factions, different peoples who have different priorities, different expertise, they're not just amazing at one thing only like hey forest magic, but at several. And each race has its own things.

They were primarily intended to be one trick pony. They just expanded them with War of the Ancients.

night elf arcana, forestry , religion is all unique - and while having overlap with blood elven and human, it 's a different emphasis and different grade. Their foresty nature thing is different from that of say shaman, it's a different feel, their magic more purely arcane with stars and moons ha s a different feel to human/high elf/kirin'tor which is more frost/fire prominent - but ofc there is overlap.

I like watching how every race has its own spin on arcane magic. Nightborne have almost only arcane spells, but more subtle, full of illusions and telemancy. Farondis is pyromancer. Blood elves use mix of arcane, fire and fel; some of them add holy. Humans love frost and arcane and they use very destructive magic. Eredar use constructs and arcane barriers to huge extent.

Some player s have got it all wrong when they thing.. oh.. blood elves do the high magic thing, so night elves shouldn't .. or night elves do the forest magic thing so high elves shouldn't. This is not how the stories or races are designed at all. Night elves are not designed to be forest elves, but this dual dark elf meets forest elf arcane and nature in its own tileset.. it doesn't matter that blood elves do high magic, they're different, they're day elves, sun focused, bright colours interfacing with the human world, the night elves are the greater and older original elven form who took everything to an extreme..that is their character, the magic is more purer, more extreme whether in the arcane or nature .. it's like their highborne totally focus on the arcane, their druids totally focus on nature, .. whereas their high elven counterparts are less extreme, less developed in those and more moderate - which fits the story, the night elves are much older and have done all of that in their story, they're meant to be that way, and so the way they would carry on today would be different.

Do you mean that that flexibility of blood elves is visible by their amount of battlemages, ranger-mages, mage-priests and other hybrids?

The highborne are not high elves nor are they Nightborne, so some people think there is no need for highborne, which is stupid, it's like saying there's no need for human kirin'tor mages, because Stormwind has mages, or blood elves have mages.. mages have a part in human lore and their own story, they 're different from high elf mages, just because one group has one, doesn't mean the other shouldn't it, when ti has it's own story particular to that group.

I think Stormwind mages are ex students of Dalaran. Well, I think that there is one pointless group in lore - Stromgarde. They are just poor man's Stormwind.

the highborne are all about the night elf society they are part of, and what the night elf nobility is like to day in the midst of 10k years after their folly ended their civilization and they find themselves coming together again, facing a new situation, it doesn't matter that high elves are highborne descendants or Nightborne are former night elves, their stories are different and they don't some how invalidate the highborne or make them irrelevant, because the highborne are not for the high/blood elf story, nor for the Nightborne now. They're a part of the night elf story and have their ow portion.

I think they should be connected to high elf story. They are surely related. The thing with elves is that you can't consider full image without talking about all the groups. Except satyr, these are quite irrelevant.

it's much better this way, races feel realistic, alive, diverse, with powerful dynamics based on their own history and characteristics that drive them and gives them interesting things they're about that can lead to many more stories or influence stories down the line.

The sad thing is that not all races are diverse. Gnomes have always felt cheap to me. They are 90% tinkers, while goblins are 50% tinkers. I think goblins got better treatment.

[ravenmoon]

They were primarily intended to be one trick pony. They just expanded them with War of the Ancients.

.

They must certainly were not.
1.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html
Developer interview clearly shows they were intended from the start to be dual arcane and nature masters - combining the best of the dark elves and forest elves.

2.
http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/
Description of night elves right of the bat, highlights their mastery over magic and range fire power as well as their arcane origin.

3.
War of the Ancients Trilogy was commissioned during the design of WC3, Night elves were always planned to be what they are. The book was not completed until just before wow's release, and it's official launch throughout the early days of wow. Chris Metzen mentioned that in one of his interviewstalking about how the book was delayed for numerous reasons I don't recall any longer.

4. This design philosophy is not unique to night elves, every wow race has several facets to them. This is how they design their world and it's denziens. In most other RPGs and fatnasies, non-humans are 1 trick ponies, and humans are good at everything.. this is not the case in wow and it's clear to see. however because of this older players use to other fantasies tend to impose the limitations in those fantasies on wow, and only look at the race they see in the eyes of first impression. Which is usually the in-game visual, ignoring the text, lore and material that requires reading - and thus they don't get a complete or accurate picture.

Just think of several races and you will see what I mean.

Night Elves - very strong at magic (both the arcane and nature), range fire power. Strong priesthood, very strong magic wielders in the druids (nature) and the highborne (arcane) - both having the reputation as the most advanced in those fields and reached the highest points too. Fel mastery through the demon hutners

Blood elves: strong in arcane, the Light, range firepower, also more versatile magic users willing to deal with darker magics openly than the high elves or night elves.

Humans: strong warriors, priests and mages.

Draenei: strong priests, strong magic users, advanced technology

Gnomes: strong engineering, also good with the arcane and with stealthing/scouting rogue class

Dwarves: strong warriors, drinkers, archaeologists, miners


I could go on, every race has several things they're good at, and usually there is no clear winner, with 2-3 things sharing the top spot as you have different specialised communities who handle that but though smaller than the population at large, they are exceptionally good at it, showing the races' aptitude. Easy example are human and night elf mages - larger population don't do magic, but the Kirin'tor and the Highborne are 2 of the most famous groups for using arcane magic. Yet most humans and most Darnassians do not. At lest not yet.

- - - Updated - - -

They kept the name "Quel'dorei" for a reason. They have "Lament of Highborne". They are still a proud race that considers night elves below them.

Just like the Nightborne have that name cross between night elf and highborne.

Though we see clear visible differences that make them seem night and day apart, thanks to the great work blizz do in giving each playable race a very comprehensive set of art assets, lore, characteristics etc, we must always remember that they are all elves, and there is more that they have in common than not.

dorei - is just the elven way of saying elves and it means who they are each to themselves, even though the various types are different. What I mean by that is that Quel'dorei in Thalassian now means something different to Quel'dorei in Darnassian, because those Quel'dorei are now very different from the original Quel'dorei - being a distinct group of them marked with the particular history they've had that forged them into the elf they are today. To them it doesn't mean highborne, it means high elf - though they honour their kin that came before them.

[I'm sure if this were a real situation, I would imagine that while Quel'dorei in Thalassian and Quel'dorei in DArnassian may be spelt the same in English, it would likely have subtle differences in the script (as the languages have diverged) and in pronouncaiation and intonation


Remember for a little while in cataclysm the blood elves and the highborne did appear to meet, the reforgers in places like Orgrimmar and Silvermoon were all highborne, and they were surrounded by blood elves, a few patches later they were blood elves. Presumably they parted ways. I'm itching to write a story on how that happened.

[Powerogue]

Aaravos has more in common with the nightborne TBH (WHO NEED SQUINTED EYES ALREADY, DAMN IT), but I definitely want more jewelry options reflecting the regal side akin to Tyrande's old model, alongside more feral looks like ruffled hair with leaves in it and wild beards for the males like Malfurion.

Basically I want to look more like Tyrande/Malfurion. Even straight up little antlers like him would be rad (there are helmets, they are ugly)

[matrix123mko]

They must certainly were not.
1.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html
Developer interview clearly shows they were intended from the start to be dual arcane and nature masters - combining the best of the dark elves and forest elves.

It leaves the space to interpret what a dark elf is. I think they went for secrecy, purple skin and love of darkness

2.
http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/
Description of night elves right of the bat, highlights their mastery over magic and range fire power as well as their arcane origin.

.

"Ever since, the Night Elves refused to use magic for fear that the dreaded Legion would return."

3.
War of the Ancients Trilogy was commissioned during the design of WC3, Night elves were always planned to be what they are. The book was not completed until just before wow's release, and it's official launch throughout the early days of wow. Chris Metzen mentioned that in one of his interviewstalking about how the book was delayed for numerous reasons I don't recall any longer.

Past is past. It is just an additional worldbuilding that doesn't define night elves of third war. I wish they did something like that about Argus.

4. This design philosophy is not unique to night elves, every wow race has several facets to them. This is how they design their world and it's denziens. In most other RPGs and fatnasies, non-humans are 1 trick ponies, and humans are good at everything.. this is not the case in wow and it's clear to see. however because of this older players use to other fantasies tend to impose the limitations in those fantasies on wow, and only look at the race they see in the eyes of first impression. Which is usually the in-game visual, ignoring the text, lore and material that requires reading - and thus they don't get a complete or accurate picture.

I could argue that gnomes are one trick ponies. Dwarves are versatile(archeologists, warriors, flightmasters, smiths, brewmasters, shamans and so on) but they are shallow everywhere, always replaced by other races and limited to only Explorers' League and azerite woons.

Humans: strong warriors, priests and mages.

Humans always get the most spotlight.

Night Elves - very strong at magic (both the arcane and nature), range fire power. Strong priesthood, very strong magic wielders in the druids (nature) and the highborne (arcane) - both having the reputation as the most advanced in those fields and reached the highest points too. Fel mastery through the demon hutners

Priesthood of Elune seems to be inferior to Anchorites.

Blood elves: strong in arcane, the Light, range firepower, also more versatile magic users willing to deal with darker magics openly than the high elves or night elves.

Are they strong in the Light? They don't seem to have any great paladin or priest. Liadrin is weaker than Tirion and such.

Draenei: strong priests, strong magic users, advanced technology

Yet the priests are the focus. Technology gets some role but magic is neglected to make humans cooler. They forgot about the first race to learn arcane magic.

Gnomes: strong engineering, also good with the arcane and with stealthing/scouting rogue class

They are good at engineering. Their scouting is based on that. Arcane is only for Millhouse.

dorei - is just the elven way of saying elves and it means who they are each to themselves, even though the various types are different. What I mean by that is that Quel'dorei in Thalassian now means something different to Quel'dorei in Darnassian, because those Quel'dorei are now very different from the original Quel'dorei - being a distinct group of them marked with the particular history they've had that forged them into the elf they are today. To them it doesn't mean highborne, it means high elf - though they honour their kin that came before them.

High elf means highborne. They are the exact same caste of elf. They didn't ever decide to give up their title and put themselves on the same caste as night elves. Why do you suggest a language difference if there is no proof for that?

Remember for a little while in cataclysm the blood elves and the highborne did appear to meet, the reforgers in places like Orgrimmar and Silvermoon were all highborne, and they were surrounded by blood elves, a few patches later they were blood elves. Presumably they parted ways. I'm itching to write a story on how that happened.

I guess they decided to leave after they hear of what happened to Eldre'thalas. I can imagine them being scared of Garrosh.

[ravenmoon]

It leaves the space to interpret what a dark elf is. I think they went for secrecy, purple skin and love of darkness

I really don't think so, when you think dark elf, the most prominent thing outside being elves that are dark skinned is intense magical aptitude and ability. Being nocturnal or pruple skin is what they are, tha'ts not what it means when you "give the best of them".... they're talkinga bout the things they shine the best at. The hardcore magic elves. In every depiction they are the only one that can out match a high elf or normal elf in magic., but that's the good part, the flip side is tha they're evil - but blizzard wanted their night elves to have the beast parts of the dark elves and the forests elves.

And this is exactly what they've given them. It's all there, it's all in the night elves - and clear for all to see - in their story, they are made from the arcane, they are written to develop the most advanced magical civilzaition azeroth ahs ever seen. Not only the first to study, but take it to the furtherest extent. And not all the night elves are 10k years out of practice with it. Giving room to also have rooted forest elf part.

THe develoepers ensure we have highborne, Moonguard, demon hunters and Nightborne who are all arcane magical adept.

I think it is denial or refusal to accept this as a legit part, when it's right there. Dark elves are also evil and have duller darker themes. They've literally given the night elves the best portions. Cos these elves have a phenomenal global night civilization but bright under starlight and moonlight, and righteous too, . Unlike normal dark elves, the night elves are benevolent in their character. And whereas dark elves are confined to usually to caves or arid places, we see starlit night theme with forests and cities with moon white building (see Zin'Azshari, Suramar)

Tbh..it just seems a denial of this part of the night elves, but what's the big deal? it's a part of them and intended. The arcane didn't disappear into oblivion, the developers ensure Demon hunters, Highborne, Moonguard, and now Nightborne continue to play that magical role with them.

I've also noticed that the only people that have a real problem with the night elves arcane part and seem to deny it are always strong blood elf fans. Now not all the blood elf fans, even strong ones feel this way, but the the biggest opposes are always strong blood elf fans. I'm not sure why, sometimes I suspect they feel like night elves having this part is still their glory.. and it's like jealous protection, but it makes no sense, night elves were originally written with this, and the blood elves and their fans neither own the monopoly on high or advanced magic. PArt of the Warcraft has it the night elves, always has, and it's clear ti's quite liked by fans.

Look at the Nightborne, who are a version of that, they are loved by every night elf fan, and is why some of the most passionate of them were very upset they went horde, but notice how the blood elf hardcore fans don't dis on the Nightborne, which are part of that arcane side of the night elves. .. why? because they're on their faction.. which makes me conclude, the only problem they're having is partisan, they don't like the other side having cool stuff. It's not a problem and welcomed when it's on their side, but you'd think the world ended.


THe Nightborne are proof how well liked the arcane version of the night elves is, and they appreciate its difference from the blood elf - and proves it's silly to think that because blood elvs have magical wonder, no other elves should - emphatically proved that most people would like stuff when it's given (I've heard the b/s arguments for over a decade, and they were bad back then as they are now, and couldn't be more wrong if they tried). The Nightborne are the sub-group,, but the original highborne who are night elves, and playable too, and were playable first and seems weird to see some people pretending that they don't exist and argue for them not to be in the game ( I think you'd agree they're a bit late.) , and they're still loved and desired, even with the Nightborne around - and this is not just due to the separation of the factions, the Nightborne take a very specific development of the night elf arcane elements, and while clearly night elven , it is also clearly different from the Shen'dralar, the Farondis etc, even when side by side in the same environment. You can thank the blizzard artists for that, and the story of the arcane wreathed night elves starved and employing the arcane for everything..literally.. None of the highborne versions in this topic can be mistaken for a Nightborne or a high/blood elf... they are night elves, and we haven't yet seen night elves in-game look glamorous and majestic like the lore describes their highborne to be.

This is what would be very exciting. I suspect, if they make highborne really nice, there would be less cries for high elves, although I have no problem with high elves also being available, despite them not adding much by being playable.

- - - Updated - - -

"Ever since, the Night Elves refused to use magic for fear that the dreaded Legion would return."


.

And that was the introduction not the conclusion of the night elves, a part of their story, just like the arcane, demon hunting, and all the other things that were revealed over time. What happened after, at the very end of the campaign of that very first insight? The legion returned - meaning no need to refuse to use magic anymore, and this was nearly 20 years ago, from the end of WC3 ROC that practice of magic refusal is ended, and just a part of the journey of their story , just like the wonder civilization and every other element they reveal. But why reveal a past anyway? To show you the people, and the past has different elments, one of them was the period of no magic use, only nature, another was the period of excessive magic use, this one has even more time spent on it because 3 books are written on it, a cinematic (Warbringers Azshara), and entire expansion focus (Suramar) and intentionally put in elements that were there before blood elves became playable (1.1 Dire Maul for example) and after they became playable (4.0 Shen'dralar rejoining + a book) showing that blood elves were not the replacement of the highborne, nor meant to now take over the role - the highiborne are part of the night elf story that show the history and character of the race. They have other functions like showing you how the high elves connect to the night elves. But

BOTH

show you the facets of the night elf people. You don't just cherry pick one like the forest elf and savage bit, because you don't want night elves to be as good or better than your race or because that's the side you experienced when you played them. But you didn't experience the arcane side told in the books, or in dire maul or cataclysm, or in legion past and present, that is also part of the ngiht elves, as is the demon hunters and the following ILlidan amasses, a direct result of having your civilization destroyed by invading demons.

Your allowed to have preferences or favourites (regardless of your motivation), just understand that others also have their preferences and they may not be the same as yours, but if they're part of the story, part of the race, they're just as valid, and they have every right to like and desire them.

it's absurd to think that everyone would only want and like the forest side of the night elves because I do. And no, I don't think everyone lieks the arcane side of the night elves just because I do either. but I know many who appreciate that the night elves are more interesting for not being 1-trick ponies, and I am aware a lot of people like that there are different things about them.. not just forest, ruins and near worgen like feral savage people.

The legion returned, and the night elves story started. Making both the pe-sundering era, and the long vigil era the past, with the wow era actually beginning their story. Wc3, was a planned start for the night elves, not the end of their story, world of Warcraft was being developed (in planning stage at that time) and actively being worked on while TFT was being developed).




1. coming out of isolation
2. Building cities,
3. Restoring temples
4. Embracing arcane magic again
5. Reestablishing their society and re-instating the highborne


blizzard is telling the night elf story of a new future where the all out-arcane focus is no more, but neither is the all nature existence the threat of the legion necessitated.

Why? Because night elves were never meant to be all nature, nor all arcane, but actually the best of both.

This is why you see Highborne, Moonguard, Suramar, ZinAzsahri, Nightborne (though they went horde) . Legion gave us more highborne and arcane night elves too, not just nightborne - so it's not that Nightborne were a total replacement of highborne. If Nightborne had gone to the alliance, there wouldn't be a need for highborne, cos these guys fill that role... doesn't mean that highborne and Moonguard wouldn't have had a role or purpose.. ofc they would have, it's not like playable nightorne on alliance would have meant that night elves could no longer be mages. .. just like playable Nightborne doesn't mean blood elves can no longer be mages, or the horde doesn't need other mages now.

This is what the beauty of telling a rich story, and having elements in many areas. And seeing it's popularity and desire, you certainly don't want to get rid of the highborne (although some die hard blood elf fans want them on the horde only - which is blatant jealous coveting). As a developer that is neutral, you want the elves you do for both factions to have the best and be the best you envision them to be. The vision of the night elves was to be the best of both the dark elf and the forest elf. So those who only expect the forest elf bits are kidding themselves, they are called night elves, not forest elves, they would have an arcane side as well, which people love.

Just look at all the Queen Azshara fans out there. Look at how very well received and liked Prince Farondis was. And people noticed and asked for the Shen'dralar in Legion, clearly wanting to hear more from the Darnassian highborne group amids all the returning arcane night elves.

- - - Updated - - -

Priesthood of Elune seems to be inferior to Anchorites.

It's the exposure and time spent on them that makes it feel that way. We can't base our perceptions on such things when we have the lore providing the information we need.

I love that the priesthoods exist in both and are strong in both. The night elf priesthood is a major part of their lore, the female warrior side stems from their priesthood.

The most unique magical feature of the night elf priesthood that distinguishes it from any other is that it's an arcane priesthood. No, these don't believe in reckless ues of magic, the arcane an t the Well are all very sacred and the priesthood uses arcane damaging spells... people often ignore this because the priesthood is one of those sides of the dark elf and is directly tied to the ue of the arcane. It is th priesthood that the mages come from as they're the ones who treid to get to Elune from focusing on the well. Whiles meeting a goddess has spiritual and philosophical implications, the discovery of magic had many other practical applications that allowed the mage class to develop.

This is why Highborne are more focused on development, progress and practicalities, because magecraft emerges from utilising the arcane practically, hwilet heir priesthood is about spirituality and philosophy aspectof bot arcane magic and the well.

Are they strong in the Light? They don't seem to have any great paladin or priest. Liadrin is weaker than Tirion and such.

I would say the y definitely are. Liadrin si a great paladin, and until Turalyon returned was the most used Paladin, post WotLK.

Remember the high elves were used for both priests and mages equally in WC3 -- my first impression of them had both magecraft and priest craft on the same level. Emphasis in TBC made it seem more magecraft, because the story only talked about that side.

Recently however they've been showing the Light side a lot more, and this is what I mean by focus. Just because the game doesn't focus on one side of a race, doesn't necessarily mean it isn't there or prominent, eventually blizzard do switch to that.

Druidsm has been the focus of te ngiht elves in classic, but lately it's been the arcane and Illidari - both these aspects were always a part of the night elves, and have played significan t roles if you go by wah the lore tells you. However, development in game didn't show everything..sometimes it is because of the period they are in.

You don't need to show everything all at onnce, and remember you are also telling a story. For night elves, they first wen through a near 100% arcane era, then a near 100% nature era, both of tehse are the past, however when the new era starts, the post-vigil era, it is natural to see a much stronger nature side, because these have been living so for the last 10k years, however in time, as you are shown highborne , Moonguard,even altered nighte lves called Nightborne exist, yousee the other elements brought to bear.

blizzard didn't even show the traditional night elf huntress and druid until 8.0 pre-patch in wow. However if you look at the lore, you are told night elves are born from the arcane, and they are highly talented at it, you know they love nature, you know the main group only stopped using it to prevent the legion returning, and the era of excessive use created an addiction which they've only recently solved after starting a project to fix it over 10k years ago.

Proportionately you have to think what the lore actually says and what it means, even if the game doesn't always show or bring it up. If it is mentioned in the lore you have to assume it.

You shouldn't assume that night elves are terrible at magic, because you didn't see tons of arcane wielding night elves in classic to WotLK, the lore tells ou that, cataclysm onwards you see a lto more, and in the Nightborne you see the first proper close up to a night elven arcane society , even though the Nightborne have taken those excess even further to the point of eating it and then using it to cloth themselves - giving them an aesthetic that is unique, and different from the highborne despite them both being very similar.

Yet the priests are the focus. Technology gets some role but magic is neglected to make humans cooler. They forgot about the first race to learn arcane magic.

Again here is where we should take the lore at its word, and not base our impression totally on what we see ingame. The lore tells us they are gifted magic users and spell casters, it tells of and shows the eredar spell casters as extremely good at magic, and the history we see in Mac'arree shoes this, , though the draenei don't really show it .. . yet.

They just parked in the priest spot. And then ignored the night elves' priests, instead simply leaving them undeveloped till cataclysm

This tends to make people ignore the other facets o the race that are equally ore ven more prominent, but we must watch what the lore says and take into account everything.

Blood elves were always very good at the light, like the high elves were better than the human priests, and were the alliances main priests and mages when they were around, but blizz didn't start showing that aspect until recently

Draenei are excellent at magic, you see this through the Eredar, but it' just not been covered yet.

The night elves are the best at the arcane, nature and have one of the best priesthoods, yet you see mainly the martial side of the priesthood through the senitnels and huntresses, but if you read WotA, you see these priests wield arcane, void and light magic. (there are instances of all 3), it's not till 8.1 that players see the void being used, but woTA spoke of the pain mistresses, a wing of the sisterhood specialising in shadow/void magic but not for evil, you also had the sentinels - The Order of Elune is like an entire female society of its own even pre-sundering. But that is how the night elves are developed.. during the long vigil, the druids are not half of the night elves(though they are in the normal sense) they'r an entire community themselves, they've got range, melee, tank unites, they got their own healers, their own community.. they live in the ofrests sleeping in Barrow dens up to 1000s of years at a time, working with the green dragonflights (who fyi, don't just work with any mortals).. they don't mix with the sentinels - this allows a unique aspect of the night elves to exist in the long vigil that carries over to a lesser extent post vigil

We see the highborne community, although currently used only as mages, would be a fully fledged society too, just like the druids and just like the order.. they may come together in urban areas, but face it, the priests love and stick to the temples, the highborne to the cities and cultivated lands, the druids rarely leave the forests and the barrow dens

Druids are all about nature and the world - guiding it's evolution, focusing on it - druid never show up for NELf stuff unless in the greatest perils (like WoT and WC3), notice how in cata Ashenvale, Desolace we didn't see them - stonetalon only had em involved because their school was being bombed).

The priesthood - carried the identity and mantle of the Kaldorei, they were about the night elvs, and yes the race was on long vigil duty, so they were obiviously a part of ti, but all matters that affected the race, governance, movement, all hanldes by the Sisters. In normal night elf society they were the most respected caste becoming so like the early days (after the highborne went all haughty and everyone started hating that about them).

The highborne and arcane wielders are the main rulers and progressors. The arcane is used to develop things, practical usages, and they excel at this. They are also the civil leaders where the priesthood are the spiritual leaders of the people. In the pre-sundering we see how preists are in night elven city environemnts, tightly intertwined with the arcane wielding urban society, and in the long vigil we see how they are with the druids, normally quite separate and reclusive focusing on their tasks at hand. In the current era, we should witness both. In urban areas you get the pre-sundering interaction and in rural /forested areas you get the more long vigil type.

The race is already well set up, there are a lot of elements to it, not necessarily shown int he game, but they have 4 books that have heavy focus on the highborne and the arcane aspect of the night elves, not to mention tehWell of Eternity is the central pillar of the race an dthe moonwells play vital role , arcane in nature, sacred to priests, and tied to the land by druids. The arcane/nature duality of the night elves is apparent all through inboth pre-sundering an d long vigil societies.

In pre-sundering, although most night elves were arcane wielders anbecause the arcane pretty much could do everything everything else could do, (mostly), they were still surrounded by nature, and cities like Zin'Azshari ( had lots of green, rooftop gardens among the beautfiful buildings. Suramr too, even in the bubbled state, we see blizzard takes time to show the gardens and zoo - although things like zoo has developed because these guys have been trapped in a bubble. the culture may be pre-sundering but some no worthy changes have occurred, like zoos, arcane clothes and eating, changing the appearance of them.

After the events of Legion, the Nightborne take on a new path, they may have kaldorei and origins, and I hope this shows, just like the void elves show the thalassian though being on a new path. But just like the void elves don't make blood elf arcane or shadow magic in their priests obsolete, neither do Nightborne make highborne and their chronomancy or great expertise in arcane obsolete any more than blood elves make blue dragons or human kirin'tor obsolete- and that analogy is not that great, because highborne have alaways been very strong in arcane magic, while the void direction is new.. Chronomancy would

They are good at engineering. Their scouting is based on that. Arcane is only for Millhouse.

True, engineering while not a class, is an aspect of technology that can be applied to many classes, some more than others, sadly I think the magical classes would be less boosted than the physical classes (logically), the reason why magic in the gnomes I s a little more highlighted is the racial they're given and they don't have much class presence in any department. Engineering expertise means they shouldn't really, good a tech, you can enhance all but the magic classes.

So I agree with you in sentiment , although only Millhouse Manastorm is quite the exaggeration, they had the famous gnome warlock in Trial of the Crusader, one of a handful of alliance warlocks that are famous.

Gnomes don't have a magic caste, nor a magical society like the elves do, it's just something their high intellect can make them good at. So only the few gnomes who choose to specialise in it would be good.

High elf means highborne. They are the exact same caste of elf. They didn't ever decide to give up their title and put themselves on the same caste as night elves. Why do you suggest a language difference if there is no proof for that?

Because quel'dorei is in Thalassian, and also in Darnassian, but the two languages are different. Also as I explained the races would mean different thigns from it. When a high elf says quel'roei hse is not referring to a night elf, but a high elf, as eh is using it in his own language,. When the Dranssians say quel'dorei they are referring to both the caste and the off shoot race of the Sunstrider descendants. I had a detailed post about this 7 years ago, taking your view on it, a post I raised the discussion on the high/blood elves considering themselves highborne. I felt as you did, but the blood elf fans at the time, came out

I guess they decided to leave after they hear of what happened to Eldre'thalas. I can imagine them being scared of Garrosh.

That's possible, although I don't se these arrogant lot being afraid of Garrosh. If I were to hedge a bet, the blood elves asked them to join them and they didn't wanna leave the Darnassians or were pushing the blood elves to re-unite... alternatively the Highborne could have looked down on the sin'dorei as deficient devolved elves, sickly pale and lesserblood elves looked down on them because of their kaldorei phobia and hatred, something the nightborne's appearance perhaps is changed just enough to ee them differently, also the Nightborne have a pristine kaldorei city and immense resources and knowledge available, Eldre'thalas was a ruin,, the libraries destroyed in the event, and the Shen'dralar, if they had all their knowledge secreted away, would have waited to see whether the sin'dorei would rejoin them before sharing.

I can think of many other scenarios, where ther eis a mixture of things and events, personalities , old hatreds and stereotyping etc play in.

[Mace]

I wanted to add all the night elf male needs on one image. The priestly part I skipped because priesthood is for women.

And all that's shifted now that males can be priests, and females druids, and is seen with some of the art work, we're seeing females in druidic styles (look at the loading screen images) with wilder hair, and priestly males (look at the Ysera cinematic)

I think that is something they could do for females, in addition to the highborne customisation, the regular female would have wild hair look, obviously intended for the female druid. Male priests are just neat clean cut looks, the distinction from highborne is the extravagance, ornamentation and arcane indications - but they can have access to some of the faces (not the arrogant looking ones) - just like the DH customisation had access to normal night elf faces.

What I notice blizzard is doing nin that in some races are getting unique customisations, like the wildhammer dwarvs and the human mixed races, and in addition they are getting new types of hairstyles and other things. So here is hoping that we'll get a really good effort.

I think arcane robes aren't a sign of addiction. The hunger is.

The hunger for mana when cut off from arcwine? It's not like the blood elves (amazing how peple just ignore this or don't realise) this is different, it's like if you don't have food for a few days, you begin to starve and get very hunngry - we accept that about food and don't say we're addicted to it. However mana is not supposed to be that way, and unlike food, it was never necessary for survival, .. but when they started using arcaneenergy for food....

The clothes are not a sign of addiction, I concur, they're ran very low (almost out on natural material for clthes, - imagine thinking of an eternity under the dome, you have to find ways to let materials last, the excess ways of the kaldorei civilization would be gone as natural resources are slim - see how they start to differ from the core race? Now the arcane, thatthey have in unlimited supply is adapted for clothes - but in the Suramar questline, only the privelged and guards can nowuse them as the energy is now restricted by order of Elisande.

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They have Slavic cheekbones and different eyes. Well, the unplayable ones, not our cheap version.

Hah, Ido prefer the bone structure of the npc ones over the player models, and the concept art ones over the npc ones. this is what the first art picture of them was like.




I do not imagine a highborne gaunt like this, but this si the Nightborne aesthetic, and I like it, and like that it is different, I've wanted a different type of night elf for a long time, and we got one, however, sadly some people don't seem to realise that we are asking for a night elf customisation there, not a different species of night elf.

A highborne might look slim and handsome but it would be more like the night elf faces we have, healthy, angular, handsome/beautiful, elven! - these Nightborne are beautiful too, in their own way, but it's a different style.

I think Valtrois has pretty aloof clothing. Elisande too, although she prefers skimpy Azshara style.

Aloof clothing is not extravagant clothing or gorgesouly designed fashion clothes, she went for the more bareskinned approach, it's not poor, but it's also not what the highborne use to be. They jewelry alright, which speaks to the wealth of the night elves, however it's in bear anklets, belts and cold pieces, minimal clothing material, - in direct contrast to what a highborne would be like those pictures above.

Now the highborne are in a more resource enrichened environment, so within th elimits of the shielded city, I think the Nightborne came to care less about their appearance but still more concerned bout their titles, positions and hierarchy, in typical kaldorei pre-sundering customs, where it is natural hose at the top tend to care much more about this.

They have lots of shaldorei silk bolts around the city. I think they recycle it somehow.

They also had fruits, grapes, and food, it's just that such now is used a lto more sparingly in a society that has to make it last for ever, but yes, I think they'd have developed ways of recycling - still, these moves would not have been made until the shortages started being felt, people have to understand the realities of living under their situation, they'd have tightly controlled everything, including population growth. With the nightwell providing most of the clothing and nutritional needs, they still needed silks and the grapes. But you saw they did have trees, and were able to at least grow a few things.

You have to keep in mind that Shen'dralar aren't the palace group. They do not wear as much elegant jewelry as other highborne. Also, highborne sometimes revealed themselves much.
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...j_NElf_TCG.jpg

While that is true about the Shen'dralar, remember the caste is more like a caste of royals. They are the highest of the nobility, a large enough group to be a caste, meaning there were other nobility (like Ravencrest) and a lot more non-nobles.

The palace may have been the craziest of the lot, but the feeling I get is that all the highborne are like that - the nightboren have just had an alteration of style and aesthetic, the arcane makes up the lionshare of their apparel, while as highborne it would be a smaller share, with more extravagant clothing and jewelry

Yet they haven't updated Mordent's model for Darkshore. What I want to say is that this one specific group has their own kind of clothing.
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...lar_Zealot.jpg

Which highlights the need for this, there is no player model aesthetic for highborne caste yet, and Mordant proves that, even though he is more likely to get a unique model if his role increases.

it's like the Zandalari trolls, whom we had to wait several years and on their 3rd specific outing to get a unique model, which is then again upgraded for playability. However let's remember this is a customisation, so it's more like the demon hunter Illidari model, which just uses the normal night elf customisation in classic, TBC, Cataclysm and finally in Legion gets it's own customisation with the new class, and all demon hunter NPCs are a retroactively upgraded to fit.

They don't have stars on their hair naturally. We haven't seem anyone conjure stars on their head. Eratreus is one specific example who is also nightborne and maniac of astromancy and you already said that arcane armors aren't highborne thing. Star hair sounds more like some extravagant upgrade, like Night Warrior or such. It is like asking for phoenix hair for blood elves. It is cool but it seems to be quite too much without further lore explanation.

Not that we know of no, but since we don't really know what highborne will actually look like when done, it's one of the thigns they can add to make them more distinctive and show signs or symbolise they're children of the stars and arcane wielders, it is an artistic suggestion that fits in with the night elf racial theme and lore. it's important for models to reflect that, just like Illidari whether demon hunters or fel caster elves have tattoos, horns, and bandaged eye masks each pointing to their caste.

The highborne having ornaments, glowing hands/feet, stars effect in hair/skin - would be their trinity of unique features, and like the illidari demon hunters they'd also receive new skin tones. faces and hairstyles

Yes, it looks quite well, at least with bracers. Without them it might be too strong but that needs to be tested.

indeed, blizzard artists are very good at the vibe they've created, they can find just the right measure. I like how it looks and I think it's just the right amount that signifies their arcane mastery. Also it is an effect they can share with the Nightborne but be more mainstream with - i.e. this is where the Nightborne get it from, allowing and keeping those really cool Nightborne arcane runes unique to the Nightborne. I mean they could give the highborne the arcane runes instead, but I think they should aim for the more pristine image.

Yes, life magic should be the best to support youth. However, as we know from War Crimes, Malfurion is ugly because of his partial animal transformations.

The mouse horns? His face looks quite handsome and young in the Terror of Darkshore video. They didn't make him wrinklky and leathered, and I'm glad... the standard of night elves in cinematic and official art is much better looking in general than the in-game models portray.

Well, I can see them rebuilding the elite of Kaldorei society, bringing science and art. However, I don't think they would be the most regal. As I said, except Tortheldrin, they have very humble style.

I would guess this would be one of the main things they'd be about. This guys are the applications of the arcane people, that's what magecraft does, utilises the arcane to do things, and they are the very best of the kaldorei empire at it - they'd be the ones wanting to drive night elf society into prominence and eminence again, and knowing how highly they think of themselves, they'd not be okay with people looking down on them, they'd want to prove and display the nobility to which they were highly esteemed in the first era. - more like a rcover their standing and pride.

First of all, Farondis is dead and his people are dead. Sorry but they aren't part of Alliance and are unlikely to ever become.

Farondis being dead is irrelevant, it's the character and outlook of the highborne that is insightful into how the highborne not influenced by the palace or the hubris of the caste are like. Farondis courts have priestesses and even a druid (the early forms). They feel so Lordly, like gracious nobility, not the super arrogant, but they do come off as noble.

The reason I mention them is to give you the idea of the feel the appearance should go for - and the Darnassian highborne (the returning ones) would be of that character too, original nobility, gracious, not the suffocating arrogance of a bygone era, but now the higher ideals of true nobility.

Also, what Darnassian highborne? I don't know any. Maitre became a hermit and the rest has been banished by Malfurion.

Wolfheart, Cataclysm, and Dev interview have pointed out the highborne amongst the Darnassians who weren't part of Darth'remar's group or joined them, opting to uphold the ban for the sake of Azeroth. When the highbrone ban is lifted, many of these take up their original calling and identity, and become part of the caste and society that defined them.

The twins in Azsuna are two examples if you didn't realise that... or did you wonder how living night elf people had parents in an all highborne province and city? The Lorekeepers in Azshara zone (that the blood elf scoffs at for picking up magic again) are all returned highborne - this is why their magic is a bit dated, they've only started using the stuff for a few weeks, and they are assisting the Shen'dralar in training new novices while they themselves hone their skills.

Sure. This is what the playable night elf mage is.

Indeed, what marks this group is that they're young, they have more of an innocent regal, chiselled face, almost more boyish than manly (think early twenties). now ofc it is quite possible some are much older only now realising they have an exceptional talent for the arcane (having been banned in their society all their lives until now).

But these are the looks you want to capture.

Yes, I don't like when models look completely different from what you expect. Gallywix before BfA was disappointing.

Agreed. And it isn't unreasonable at all for fans to expect better. They've shown they can do elves well, the blood elf model for starters, the night elves in official art and cinematics all look pretty amazing - the fans certainly know how to capture them well, it's up to the developers to ensure the player models can reflect this too.

You didn't interpret me correctly, my fault. What I wanted to say is that playable nightborne faces seem young and noble and would be good for night elf highborne. NPC ones are more for Horde elves. I also complained about playable nightborne not having that cool old and proud face of Oculeth.

Oh, that is because they're based on the night elf model, the npc ones are based on the old night elf models though the npc ones do give a new face.

I don't like the Nightborne player models that much, they look too aggressive and snooty, but not in that good looking a way, once again, these models are not pretty or good looking dark skinned elves, and seem to continue the "blizzard can't do cool males unless blood elves" thing.

Sure. This is what they lack. They, like humans, can't look good in game. However, HotS Alextrasza is even worse disappointment.

Ah.. so you get where I'm coming from.