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  1. #21
    Legendary! Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahper View Post
    How can you use a zone?
    Same way Garrosh used The Vale of Eternal Blossoms, I believe. That's what OP meant, I think.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Same way Garrosh used The Vale of Eternal Blossoms, I believe. That's what OP meant, I think.
    How did Garrosh use the Vale of Eternal Blossoms?

  3. #23
    Not gonna hold my breath for Blizzard NOT shitting on nelves and Tyrande AGAIN...

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It's obliquely referred to in "A Good War."
    Jeez, it's a hell of an assumption that 'Elune Interfered' because Tyrande turned up.

  5. #25
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Jeez, it's a hell of an assumption that 'Elune Interfered' because Tyrande turned up.
    Tyrande is sort of Elune's primary agent on Azeroth - High Priestess of her Church and one of few individuals who can call upon her power in times of need.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSaggins View Post
    A sort of potential creep of visual retconning in Warcraft III: Reforged then, but in a way that fleshes out the story and adds to it rather than takes away? I like that.




    Interesting. Curious if "Death" refers to a specific dude in a robe with a scythe, the cosmic law defining the end of a mortal's life, or the Shadowlands as a whole? I could see an argument for why the "Death", whatever it is, wouldn't be happy with the Night Elves in particular for failing to return to the Shadowlands for the past ten-millennia due to Titano-Draconic intervention, and feel that Teldrassil's fate was their due.
    Why would they.. they got their fill in the first invasion of the legion, where millions if not billions of night elves were wiped out by the Legion, and I bet the proceeding sundering wiped out a few... I don't think all those became wisps, afterall it as at at ime when druidsm had faded to legend , it's post sundering thatt the nature connection is re-established, providing hte wisp pass for night elves.

    Teldrassil is just a handful compared to the first sundering, night elves remember slept mostly during the long vigil, not much breeding and rebuilding went on, only watching and sleeping.

    I suspect the wisps that die go to shadowlands, , and myriads were detonated to destroy Archimonde, I'm sure the shadowlands has a glut of night elves.. most massacred racial group, that seem to have gone through 2 genocides, and always take heavy casualties in every major conflict.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I see Maiev is race changing to Velf. Good move!
    .
    I know you meant it as a joke, but it kinda makes sense, and the avatar of vengeance looks very void elfy, but wanna beet even if it was , blizzard will still forget to bridge the void elves and the blackmoon/vengeance night elves.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I know you meant it as a joke, but it kinda makes sense, and the avatar of vengeance looks very void elfy, but wanna beet even if it was , blizzard will still forget to bridge the void elves and the blackmoon/vengeance night elves.
    Maiev is the only other living being that was high priestess of Elune as well. My guess is that her Avatar is some form of the night warrior since she was the only night elf but Tyrande who knew of the ritual. [leaving out Azshara]
    There's no one bend more on vengeance than Maiev in the entire Warcraft Universe

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Tyrande is sort of Elune's primary agent on Azeroth - High Priestess of her Church and one of few individuals who can call upon her power in times of need.
    Yes, but that's not Elune interfering directly, just helping as always. It would be like saying the arcane itself supported Sylvanis because magi used it's power.

  9. #29
    Pandaren Monk Beet's Avatar
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    No she wasn’t. But Blizzard could easily retcon it so maybe. They shit all over lore with the Shadowlands stuff already so I wouldn’t doubt it if they do here too. Still annoys the piss out of me what they’re doing in that expansion with old lore.

    I’m already ready to learn now that Elune never existed.

  10. #30
    Ah, all the straw grasping in this thread trying to justify Teldrassil so the Dear Lich Queen is not a omnicidal maniac...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthos View Post
    Maybe Elune didn't interfere so that all those souls would go into the Shadowlands? And perhaps the mantle of the Night Warrior will give Tyrande the power to free them from the Maw and they can join the Shadowlands' forces to combat the jailor since they have clearly not been enough to stop him on their own?
    The Night Warrior couldn't even stop a zombie with a bow, why should we expect it to do anything here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  11. #31
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Yes, but that's not Elune interfering directly, just helping as always. It would be like saying the arcane itself supported Sylvanis because magi used it's power.
    Elune has interceded on Tyrande's behalf before, usually in the form of abilities she could not herself muster - such as the shield that protected her when she was taken captive in the War of the Ancients that even Archimonde could not bypass. The Arcane is more or less just a wavelength of energy that Mages can make use of, it is not itself alive. Elune is an entity, both sapient and sentient, with its own agendas and phenomenal powers to boot.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Elune is an entity, both sapient and sentient, with its own agendas and phenomenal powers to boot.
    Yet no match for authorial self-inserts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Yet no match for authorial self-inserts.
    Well, while I also despise that we did not get to kill Nathanos at that point, I assume that she first needs to get used to that new power. She attacked Nathanos and the 2 Val'kyr mere minutes after gaining it. By now she is probably much stronger.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Plehnard View Post
    Maiev is the only other living being that was high priestess of Elune as well. My guess is that her Avatar is some form of the night warrior since she was the only night elf but Tyrande who knew of the ritual. [leaving out Azshara]
    There's no one bend more on vengeance than Maiev in the entire Warcraft Universe
    Maiev was never a high priestess of Elune,

    I think she joined the sisterhood after Suramars destruction by the Legion (or supposed destruction) in rage and grief when Tyrande created the se tinel and warden orders.

    Maiev was always unstable emotionally and psychologically because of the 1st invasion, but her si gleefully minded hatred made her very very good at her job, which eventually led to leading the Warden

    All was fine until Tyrande decided to free Illidan, then the kaldorei also lifted their ban on the arcane which Maiev hates because she blames night elf magic for the 1st invasion.

    Her obsession and hate for Illidan and the arcane have been shown to be crazy and unhinged, void of any reason unlike the rest of her race. Maiev's hatred u fittingly allowed AU Gul'Dan to triumph over Khadgar in the audio comic and open the Legion expansion portal for the demons' 3rd invasion of Azeroth, it was this event I believe that led to a turning point in her.

    After Illidans successful imprisonment, Maiev continued her vendetta of hate against the highborne evotiati g a rejoining g alliance with the kaldorei, after murdering g a few and being discovered as the singular root of the very small minority opposition to their alliance and the murderer, she became an enemy of the state, until the Legion pre event, where she finally realised her prejudice was in error and sore
    Y replaced.

    I think after working with Khadgar we see a shift that leads Maiev to finally see the Demon hunters differently, realising they werent Legion Age ts after all, freeing them to help stop the Legion. We also see her attitude to the arcane u-turn at least she is no longer hating any users of the arcane, later seen working alongside highborne mages and fune a out hero mage and even warlock characters prepared to help find Tyrande and fight against st the horde invasion.

    I have never heard of her being high priestess or even a proper priestess. While most men became druids after the su dering, women were left to lead the night elf peoples as part of Tyrande's Prder of Elune expansion, this is where and how Maiev came into her roles. The wardens were originally a wing of the Order of Elune created by Tyrande after the sundering

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Yet no match for authorial self-inserts.
    She is not meant to be, she is a goddess, part of the necessary elements of the warcraft world, she isnt really an active character,

    I dont think anyone wants a religious entity to be a self insert, why do you think Tyrande is so unpopular and very poorly used by the writing team, she is no ones self <insert her powers come directly as a result of her role.

    And even whe they seek to "compensate" the night elves with her, they do it poorly

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    She is not meant to be, she is a goddess, part of the necessary elements of the warcraft world, she isnt really an active character,

    I dont think anyone wants a religious entity to be a self insert, why do you think Tyrande is so unpopular and very poorly used by the writing team, she is no ones self <insert her powers come directly as a result of her role.

    And even whe they seek to "compensate" the night elves with her, they do it poorly
    Sorry, I was being a bit bitter there. I mean, Elune's power in the form of the Night Warrior was insufficient to stop Nathanos (well known as Steve Danuser's self insert, @derpkitteh has a link on it), let alone make his mission fail or even be seriously compromised. The dramatic power infusion failed to be shown as game changing, hell it failed to do more than inconvenience the Horde. Elune looked weak there, because Danuser Cringecaller is too cool to be stopped by one of WoW's punching bags.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  16. #36
    Blademaster jpch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Maiev was never a high priestess of Elune,

    I think she joined the sisterhood after Suramars destruction by the Legion (or supposed destruction) in rage and grief when Tyrande created the se tinel and warden orders.

    Maiev was always unstable emotionally and psychologically because of the 1st invasion, but her si gleefully minded hatred made her very very good at her job, which eventually led to leading the Warden

    All was fine until Tyrande decided to free Illidan, then the kaldorei also lifted their ban on the arcane which Maiev hates because she blames night elf magic for the 1st invasion.

    Her obsession and hate for Illidan and the arcane have been shown to be crazy and unhinged, void of any reason unlike the rest of her race. Maiev's hatred u fittingly allowed AU Gul'Dan to triumph over Khadgar in the audio comic and open the Legion expansion portal for the demons' 3rd invasion of Azeroth, it was this event I believe that led to a turning point in her.

    After Illidans successful imprisonment, Maiev continued her vendetta of hate against the highborne evotiati g a rejoining g alliance with the kaldorei, after murdering g a few and being discovered as the singular root of the very small minority opposition to their alliance and the murderer, she became an enemy of the state, until the Legion pre event, where she finally realised her prejudice was in error and sore
    Y replaced.

    I think after working with Khadgar we see a shift that leads Maiev to finally see the Demon hunters differently, realising they werent Legion Age ts after all, freeing them to help stop the Legion. We also see her attitude to the arcane u-turn at least she is no longer hating any users of the arcane, later seen working alongside highborne mages and fune a out hero mage and even warlock characters prepared to help find Tyrande and fight against st the horde invasion.

    I have never heard of her being high priestess or even a proper priestess. While most men became druids after the su dering, women were left to lead the night elf peoples as part of Tyrande's Prder of Elune expansion, this is where and how Maiev came into her roles. The wardens were originally a wing of the Order of Elune created by Tyrande after the sundering

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    She is not meant to be, she is a goddess, part of the necessary elements of the warcraft world, she isnt really an active character,

    I dont think anyone wants a religious entity to be a self insert, why do you think Tyrande is so unpopular and very poorly used by the writing team, she is no ones self <insert her powers come directly as a result of her role.

    And even whe they seek to "compensate" the night elves with her, they do it poorly
    Maiev was elected as High Priestess of Elune during the War of the Ancients after Tyrande was presumed dead (She was imprisoned by Archimonde and Azshara). Maiev was also a senior/High ranking priestess during the war of the Ancients.
    You have posted so much nonsense, The Wardens/Watchers were created by Maiev shadowsong at the end of third novel of WOTA to guard Illidan's prison the suggestion was made by Malfurion Stormrage and Maiev Volunteered for the task, most of them were part of the resistance and the sisterhood, their order grew and expanded greatly during the long vigil and became jailors,peace and justice keepers.
    Tyrande did not created the Wardens she created the sentinels. You need to brush up on your Night Elf lore before posting and making outlandish claims.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Elune has interceded on Tyrande's behalf before, usually in the form of abilities she could not herself muster
    Which isn't what happened there.

  18. #38
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Which isn't what happened there.
    Difficult to say - her paralysis of Saurfang and the appearance of a ring of knives made of Light could well be a manifestation of Elune's power, or not. Sylvanas seemed to imply that Tyrande's presence there, and perhaps Saurfang's apparent change of heart, were the effect of Elune but it's left an open question as to whether that's the case.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Sorry, I was being a bit bitter there. I mean, Elune's power in the form of the Night Warrior was insufficient to stop Nathanos (well known as Steve Danuser's self insert, @derpkitteh has a link on it), let alone make his mission fail or even be seriously compromised. The dramatic power infusion failed to be shown as game changing, hell it failed to do more than inconvenience the Horde. Elune looked weak there, because Danuser Cringecaller is too cool to be stopped by one of WoW's punching bags.
    I don't blame you for that, in fact i sympathise with you, I feel Metzen was the only one truly on the side of the night elves and their main characters, once he left most of the work of wow's detailed development to the otheres, they just boosted their own character faves, which i can understand, but he never went in all the way hands on ensuring that groups like the night elves were treated decently. Not to expect much once he left either. I feel he was perhaps the only truly un biased creative developer in wow, I genuinely feel both horde and alliance were his favourites, .. but I digress.

    Thanks for the clarification, I see what you meant as well, and I agree with you. It was so bad the way it played out, with all her powers, somehow Nathanos still looks good and capable, rather than near dead and very fortuante to have survived.. in fact, if you actually take her changes serioulsy, the right play would have been to kill Nathanos, and have anohter Valk'yr bring him back and have him go through a similar thing sylvanas went through, tying him into her plot.

    but no, phobia of doing anything strong or meaningful for night elves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpch View Post
    Maiev was elected as High Priestess of Elune during the War of the Ancients after Tyrande was presumed dead (She was imprisoned by Archimonde and Azshara). Maiev was also a senior/High ranking priestess during the war of the Ancients.
    You have posted so much nonsense, The Wardens/Watchers were created by Maiev shadowsong at the end of third novel of WOTA to guard Illidan's prison the suggestion was made by Malfurion Stormrage and Maiev Volunteered for the task, most of them were part of the resistance and the sisterhood, their order grew and expanded greatly during the long vigil and became jailors,peace and justice keepers.
    Tyrande did not created the Wardens she created the sentinels. You need to brush up on your Night Elf lore before posting and making outlandish claims.
    Maybe you're right, but I don't htink I ever will brush up on it or bother with this trash ever again like i did.

    i will be content for people who do brush up to correct my mistakes, and appreciate the fact correction even if they do it in a rude and hostile way.

    I'm done with warcraft lore, i may occassionally respond to reminisce, but no more hours of reading, searching, fact checking for this worthless piece of make -belief. And while i had some amount of pleasure , it was crazy obassession and i rue all the time i wasted on something that wouldn't amount to anything and just get progressively worse and more ridiculous.

    So thanks for the correction. I alo no longer consider insulting people over fact correcting rubbish as a good use of my time or the right thing to do. You are a real person, Maiev, Tyrande and that whole universe isn't, I care far more about you who insults me than being right over them who are make belief.

    Good day to you man. (or woman if that's who you are)

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Maiev was never a high priestess of Elune,

    I think ...
    She was and a short google would have shown that to you no matter what you "think".
    But that's the general problem with you that things in your head-canon overwrite written lore, even if it's old/unchanged lore like Maievs priesthood.

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