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Voters
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  • Conservative

    35 37.63%
  • Labour

    35 37.63%
  • SNP

    5 5.38%
  • Liberal Democrat

    7 7.53%
  • DUP

    0 0%
  • Sinn Fein

    1 1.08%
  • Plaid Cymru

    1 1.08%
  • Green

    1 1.08%
  • Independent

    1 1.08%
  • Spoil vote

    2 2.15%
  • Abstain

    2 2.15%
  • Other

    3 3.23%
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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I'm well aware as to what is at stake. With that said, people need to work with the tools that they have available to them and remain civil to avoid losing the ability to speak about such things in the first place. Your opponents want you to get frustrated. They want you to lash out. Like it or not, there's an element of needing to play the 'game' in order to remain a player.

    I don't want to see another round of the Conservatives, though I won't be surprised if they end up getting in either just barely or because they strike another deal with the Liberal Democrats.

    What we need is a complete overhaul of the political system from the ground up. We need to get rid of career politicians and hold politicians in general accountable for what they say and do to a much higher degree than we currently do. Cutting expenses and limiting the degree of influence lobbying has would be a great start. Yet that isn't going to happen overnight and to my knowledge there aren't many (if any) politicians actively advocating for the system to change in such a manner.
    What you get out in your last paragraph is all very well and good but you are never going to achieve that while people hold views as expressed in your first paragraph.

    If the game is broken you dont keep playing in the desperate hope thateitherthe game changes around you or you accidentally win. If you want to fix a broken game you go out and do that or you start playing a different game.

  2. #422
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I'm well aware as to what is at stake. With that said, people need to work with the tools that they have available to them and remain civil to avoid losing the ability to speak about such things in the first place. Your opponents want you to get frustrated. They want you to lash out. Like it or not, there's an element of needing to play the 'game' in order to remain a player.

    I don't want to see another round of the Conservatives, though I won't be surprised if they end up getting in either just barely or because they strike another deal with the Liberal Democrats.

    What we need is a complete overhaul of the political system from the ground up. We need to get rid of career politicians and hold politicians in general accountable for what they say and do to a much higher degree than we currently do. Cutting expenses and limiting the degree of influence lobbying has would be a great start. Yet that isn't going to happen overnight and to my knowledge there aren't many (if any) politicians actively advocating for the system to change in such a manner.
    A con + lib dem alliance is highly unlikely. When the last one happend it was an alliance of nessesity to get brown and a new Labour out who had been marred by years of bad economic planing and 2 disastrous wars, also policy wise they were more closely allinged. But that alliance hurt the Lib Dems really hard and its kit so long ago that the Lib Dems have forgotten. Also the torys and libdems are more opposed to each other specifically over brexit than Labour and the torys are currently.

    No if there's going to be a coalition this time, it will either be a Conservative + BXP or a Labour + SNP alliance, the SNP can be easily bought with a 2nd indy ref for Scotland, Something labour's allready set the ground work murmurings for.

    My prediction is a con majority by how things are looking at the moment. And there's depressingly little I can do about that, as embarrassing as jhonson has been, the Labour Party has seemed hell bent on having these car crash interviews and adopting policy's they haven't done the pre election leg work to make popular. If you want to build an election on Nationalisation you kinda need to convince people Nationalisation is the right solution first and thelat takes at least a few years of propaganda. I do get the feeling sometimes that sometimes party's forget we nolonger automatically trust them anymore

  3. #423
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    What you get out in your last paragraph is all very well and good but you are never going to achieve that while people hold views as expressed in your first paragraph.

    If the game is broken you dont keep playing in the desperate hope thateitherthe game changes around you or you accidentally win. If you want to fix a broken game you go out and do that or you start playing a different game.
    It's not a great situation, though how would you propose changing things in a non-violent manner? Protests aren't as effective as they used to be and have a habit of just turning public opinion against whatever cause is being presented as a major issue. To say nothing of the huge amount of money it costs to mobilise the police each time a major protest happens.

  4. #424
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    A con + lib dem alliance is highly unlikely. When the last one happend it was an alliance of nessesity to get brown and a new Labour out who had been marred by years of bad economic planing and 2 disastrous wars, also policy wise they were more closely allinged. But that alliance hurt the Lib Dems really hard and its kit so long ago that the Lib Dems have forgotten. Also the torys and libdems are more opposed to each other specifically over brexit than Labour and the torys are currently.

    No if there's going to be a coalition this time, it will either be a Conservative + BXP or a Labour + SNP alliance, the SNP can be easily bought with a 2nd indy ref for Scotland, Something labour's allready set the ground work murmurings for.

    My prediction is a con majority by how things are looking at the moment. And there's depressingly little I can do about that, as embarrassing as jhonson has been, the Labour Party has seemed hell bent on having these car crash interviews and adopting policy's they haven't done the pre election leg work to make popular. If you want to build an election on Nationalisation you kinda need to convince people Nationalisation is the right solution first and thelat takes at least a few years of propaganda. I do get the feeling sometimes that sometimes party's forget we nolonger automatically trust them anymore
    I'm mostly going by Jo Swinson's voting record and her admiration of Thatcher. She's very much in alignment with Tory policies on many fronts and if it meant getting into power I don't doubt that she'd align with the Tories if the opportunity presented itself.

    You're correct in that it could go in a different direction, though with all the bickering between parties and unpopular policies being put at the forefront I don't doubt that things will get weird.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snardwurl View Post
    I don't know about that. I oppose everything he stands for ideologically, but Trump did win an election despite "lashing out" repeatedly in a much more childish manner than any one on the British left would. He was visibly the least civil person in any debate.

    I think "civility" is something that has gone the way of the dinosaur along with the popularity of the center-left. Too much civility and you sound like an establishment politician and it becomes impossible to win support for the reforms that you propose, because you lack credibility.
    I'd argue that Trump won in large part for the same reason that Leave won the Brexit referendum. Instead of working to address the legitimate concerns and issues raised by those voting for such things the 'racist' and 'xenophobe' claims were brought out and caused many to double down. There's also very much a sense of the Left having moved to a dangerous place, having been hijacked in many places by extremists who have nothing but contempt for rural voters/the working class. The Democrats and Labour have both been steadily moving more and more towards identity politics in recent years and also pushing bizarre conspiracy theories along the lines of 'White Privilege' and the like.

    As someone who is all for equality, it's frustrating. I want to see true equality, yet the supposedly 'nicer' parties seem to keep trying to play different groups against each other instead of trying to find something that works for everybody.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snardwurl View Post
    She isn't just in alignment with the Tories, in coalition she voted with the Tory whip more often than Michael Gove did. All those homeless people on the street, all the disability benefit cuts that killed people, that is all stuff she voted for.

    Maybe vote for the Lib Dems in seats where Labour have no chance, but any one voting LD for any other reason has to be either a tory of seriously misguided.
    Yeah, she definitely has just as much blood on her hands as most of the Tories do. It's pretty awful how the disabled and other vulnerable groups have been treated within society. Here in St Andrews it's pretty much an expected case of either the SNP or Lib Dems getting in. I ended up voting for the former, in no small part because it was hard not to consider a vote for the Lib Dems to effectively just be a vote for the Tories.

  6. #426
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snardwurl View Post
    This year's "BORN YESTERDAY" award goes to Monster Hunter!
    Tories and the lib dems agree on pretty much everything aside from brexit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It's Kangodo, so they mean Communist parties only as left-wing.
    Left wing parties are still anti-EU, but not for the same reasons the right wing is. Which is why everybody who is left-wing and is even the slighest amount of pragmatic will realize that even considering leaving the EU will only be worthwhile with a strong. eu skeptic, left-wing majority. Even then, it would be better to reform the EU.

    A lot of EU rules can be ignored if a country really does not want to follow it anyway..
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  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Tories and the lib dems agree on pretty much everything aside from brexit.
    Looks very much like the Lib Dems are taking votes from Labour though. Anyone still thinking it will be a hung parliament? Not what the poll of polls says.

    Three cheers, in advance, to the Lib Dems for giving Brexit Boris his majority.


  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Left wing parties are still anti-EU, but not for the same reasons the right wing is. Which is why everybody who is left-wing and is even the slighest amount of pragmatic will realize that even considering leaving the EU will only be worthwhile with a strong. eu skeptic, left-wing majority. Even then, it would be better to reform the EU.

    A lot of EU rules can be ignored if a country really does not want to follow it anyway..
    Social democratic parties are largely considered left or center-left and the vast majority of them are pro-EU to my knowledge.
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  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Social democratic parties are largely considered left or center-left and the vast majority of them are pro-EU to my knowledge.
    Most of those have moved to the centre, sadly. Labour in the UK is probably one of the few that moving back to the centre-left. The idea behind the EU is great, but its policies could use a lot of reforms.
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  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Looks very much like the Lib Dems are taking votes from Labour though. Anyone still thinking it will be a hung parliament? Not what the poll of polls says.

    Three cheers, in advance, to the Lib Dems for giving Brexit Boris his majority.
    Lib Dems have shifted their strategy now to chasing Tory Remainer seats. It's not overall vote that counts, as well we keep needing to remind you.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I'm mostly going by Jo Swinson's voting record and her admiration of Thatcher. She's very much in alignment with Tory policies on many fronts and if it meant getting into power I don't doubt that she'd align with the Tories if the opportunity presented itself.

    You're correct in that it could go in a different direction, though with all the bickering between parties and unpopular policies being put at the forefront I don't doubt that things will get weird.
    Yea things could get wierd, but thatchers policy's are not like Boris jhonson direction. Thatcher was well a thatcherite, jhonson policy's are one nation (which would be a good thing if he was actualy trustworthy) there are factions within each party and thatcherite's and one nation Conservatives don't usualy get on very well.

    Also I have to question what Swinson means by admire, thatcher was at the end of the day the first female priminister and was a strong woman.

    And let's face it when it comes to women to look up to as firsts in the UK politics you don't have any good options.

    Constance the first female mp was IRA and never took her seat.

    The first woman lady astor to be elected and take her seat was a nazi sympathiser

    And thatcher was well thatcher.

    Both first for women also going to the Conservative party.

    So not great options when looking for a female political hero :/
    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2019-12-03 at 02:53 PM.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Yea things could get wierd, but thatchers policy's are not like Boris jhonson direction. Thatcher was well a thatcherite, jhonson policy's are one nation (which would be a good thing if he was actualy trustworthy) there are factions within each party and thatcherite's and one nation Conservatives don't usualy get on very well.
    Johnson is a One Nation Tory? You have got to be kidding me.

    He has lurched his party so far to the right that anybody that was genuinely in that group has either jumped ship to the Lib Dems or given up politics entirely. I'm genuinely intrigued about what you see in his public statements that would suggest he is One Nation. Or what was in the manifesto that they are running on.
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  13. #433
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Johnson is a One Nation Tory? You have got to be kidding me.

    He has lurched his party so far to the right that anybody that was genuinely in that group has either jumped ship to the Lib Dems or given up politics entirely. I'm genuinely intrigued about what you see in his public statements that would suggest he is One Nation. Or what was in the manifesto that they are running on.
    Well to copy paste his manifesto

    Day-to-day spending boost for public services - £1.5bn in 2020-21, rising to £2.9bn in 2023-24
    Borrow £100bn over five years to fund longer-term infrastructure projects
    Of this, £22bn allocated over the next five years
    600million per year for a new skills fund
    50k nurses
    Pensions rise by 2.5% per year
    Tackle bullying in schools
    Investment in arts, sport and music
    End benefits freezes
    Primary careers fund
    9.2 billion for energy efficacy on homes schools and hospitals
    Ban on exporting waste to country's who can't handle it in a green way.
    2 billion for pot hole fixing (really feking over due)
    Net zero by 2050
    6k more doctors.

    Think I got everything of the article, ofc there the brexit leave with bojos deal thing.

    But just on that stuff, this manifesto is far more left leaning than what may or Cameron put together.

    This taking the party lurching to the right thing comes from brexit and that he's a nortoruis lier, but on paper the tory manifesto is very one nation especially compared to the manifestos Cameron and May put out.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Most of those have moved to the centre, sadly. Labour in the UK is probably one of the few that moving back to the centre-left. The idea behind the EU is great, but its policies could use a lot of reforms.
    Remain and Reform is really different from Exit tbh. It is the majority opinion in most of the EU across the entire political spectrum.
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  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Yea things could get wierd, but thatchers policy's are not like Boris jhonson direction. Thatcher was well a thatcherite, jhonson policy's are one nation
    Ignoring the fact Johnson is a Thatcherite, there is a slight comedy to him claiming to be a one nation Tory when he's looking to be the person responsible for bringing about Scottish Independence and Irish reunification ^^

  16. #436
    So let me get this straight.

    Boris will fuck the economy a bit more, make the rich even richer and destroy the NHS.

    Corbyn wants to burn all my tax money for... free broadband... and so underaged turds get unlimited train access, so that all the unemployed druggies in the streets who make a living out of professional begging get free housing, so more single moms get free housing, so people on benefits get more benefits.

    Seems like were fucked either way.

  17. #437
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    Boris will fuck the economy a bit more, make the rich even richer and destroy the NHS.

    Corbyn wants to burn all my tax money for... free broadband... and so underaged turds get unlimited train access, so that all the unemployed druggies in the streets who make a living out of professional begging get free housing, so more single moms get free housing, so people on benefits get more benefits.

    Seems like were fucked either way.
    Only fucked if you're well off or conservative.

    Hey, that sounds like a good thing!
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  18. #438
    It seems Corbyn is way behind in polls

    If labour doesnt win they should really replace him
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  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    It seems Corbyn is way behind in polls

    If labour doesnt win they should really replace him
    The big question is with who?

    The Labor party is balancing quite dangerously on a knife's edge since they depend on both London, the strongest pro-Remain place in the United Kingdom, and on Northern England and Wales, some of which are quite pro-Leave.

    Corbyn has tried to balance the situation between the two sides so to speak, would anyone else do better? I don't see a candidate being able to easily replace him.

    Which realistically means that unless good ol' Boris royally fucks up he'll be Prime Minister for quite a few years from now.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2019-12-05 at 02:40 PM.
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  20. #440
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    It seems Corbyn is way behind in polls

    If labour doesnt win they should really replace him
    You're not going to get your dream of Uk labour going back to the blairites.
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