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Voters
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  • Conservative

    35 37.63%
  • Labour

    35 37.63%
  • SNP

    5 5.38%
  • Liberal Democrat

    7 7.53%
  • DUP

    0 0%
  • Sinn Fein

    1 1.08%
  • Plaid Cymru

    1 1.08%
  • Green

    1 1.08%
  • Independent

    1 1.08%
  • Spoil vote

    2 2.15%
  • Abstain

    2 2.15%
  • Other

    3 3.23%
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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's kind of a myth that they were ever run badly, they were intentionally underfunded and resourced exactly as you can see in the NHS to promote the idea of privatisation. We privatised the water companies, now we just have local monopolies who suck that money out to shareholders, meanwhile we still have to oversee much of their work through the Environment Agency.

    We privatised transport, they formed local monopolies, and they need to be overseen and organised by local transport authorities.

    We privatised energy, while unable to form monopolies, they work as cartels fixing prices, and expoiting those who don't switch every 12 months.

    Broadband providers function in exactly the same way.

    Many areas, particularly in areas with heavy student populations function similarly for housing.

    These are not services that work to a free market economy, because they're essential services. You use them because you have to pick one and you have to use it. Health is much the same, only that's an even more closed shop because you can't switch hospitals mid-way through a heart attack.

    It's about recognising you've got to pay for these things one way or another, and the free market simply cannot give you a choice, because it lacks the infrastructure, it lacks the scales required to make it happen. If you have to fork out £50 for broadband, £25 for water, £50 for gas and electricity; these are not the same discretionary expenditure as going for a Starbucks of Cafe Nero for your morning coffee.

    As a business, their function is no more than to collect the rent for these services. The infrastructure requires state-level spending to supply and install, something private industry does not have. Why the hell should private industry be collecting rent from state bought infrastructure?
    If that is the case and it was underfunding not poor management tha lead to the power cuts and poor performance of our nationalised industry's then that is also the fault of Labour. Befor thatcher took power the preceeding dacade bar a single year of Conservative goverment was Labour.

    1964 to 1977 was Labour dominated bar a single year, 1970.

    What is clear is that our goverment has a very bad track record with running nationalised industry's.

    And further more what is the point of spending some silly amount of cash to forcibly buy out these company's (the legality of which is still unclear) only for them to likly be Re privatised when the political winds next change?

    I sometimes do wonder mostly when talking to Americans but also now and then others if people seems to forget that the games not over when a socialist gets power, unfortunately for corbyn he can't suspend democracy when he gets power and you only hae 4 years maximum untill you need to fight again for votes.

  2. #42
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    If that is the case and it was underfunding not poor management tha lead to the power cuts and poor performance of our nationalised industry's then that is also the fault of Labour. Befor thatcher took power the preceeding dacade bar a single year of Conservative goverment was Labour.

    1964 to 1977 was Labour dominated bar a single year, 1970.

    What is clear is that our goverment has a very bad track record with running nationalised industry's.

    And further more what is the point of spending some silly amount of cash to forcibly buy out these company's (the legality of which is still unclear) only for them to likly be Re privatised when the political winds next change?

    I sometimes do wonder mostly when talking to Americans but also now and then others if people seems to forget that the games not over when a socialist gets power, unfortunately for corbyn he can't suspend democracy when he gets power and you only hae 4 years maximum untill you need to fight again for votes.
    A lot of these industries are national enterprises in other countries, including in the EU. Indeed much of our private transport infrastructure - trains, buses - are run by the state owned companies of Germany, Italy, and France.

    There's no issue of legality, once franchises expire, they can be returned to the state - see North Eastern rail. Publicly listed companies can be bought by anyone.

    I often wonder, when talking to Conservatives, both UK and US, what they think the functional difference is between paying Tax for these services, for no profit, or paying rent to private companies where 30%+ is gone to the shareholders, and the company even then is held up by government grants and funding from taxes to pay for investment and maintenance of infrastructure. That private layer seems entirely superfluous.

    The idea of having a choice between who to pay that rent to, to line their pockets, is just an unnecessary extra burden - just as it is in healthcare.

    It's very obviously a means of passing taxpayer expenditure around to allow private individuals and corporations to take a cut of those taxes. It's a massive scam.

    I have no idea what went on in the 60s - 70s, but the sellout of national assets when Thatcher was put in charge of it made a lot of rich people richer, and poor people a lot more plentiful; and left us with a nation progressively stripped of the assets it needs to exist as a nation.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2019-11-25 at 02:53 PM.

  3. #43
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    This circus again with their fucking swingometer.

    Their electoral system and the media coverage is a joke.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    A lot of these industries are national enterprises in other countries, including in the EU. Indeed much of our private transport infrastructure - trains, buses - are run by the state owned companies of Germany, Italy, and France.

    There's no issue of legality, once franchises expire, they can be returned to the state - see North Eastern rail. Publicly listed companies can be bought by anyone.

    I often wonder, when talking to Conservatives, both UK and US, what they think the functional difference is between paying Tax for these services, for no profit, or paying rent to private companies where 30%+ is gone to the shareholders, and the company even then is held up by government grants and funding from taxes to pay for investment and maintenance of infrastructure. That private layer seems entirely superfluous.

    The idea of having a choice between who to pay that rent to, to line their pockets, is just an unnecessary extra burden - just as it is in healthcare.

    It's very obviously a means of passing taxpayer expenditure around to allow private individuals and corporations to take a cut of those taxes. It's a massive scam.

    I have no idea what went on in the 60s - 70s, but the sellout of national assets when Thatcher was put in charge of it made a lot of rich people richer, and poor people a lot more plentiful; and left us with a nation progressively stripped of the assets it needs to exist as a nation.
    Don't know what you mean be stripped of the assets it needs to exhist as a nation. When I went outside for a smoke 5 minutes ago England seemed to be still existing despite the privatised train that went past.

    The difference between us and those eu country's there not us, they run those company's well and far better than we did in the past. Just as Japan has a fully private rail network and its one of the best in the world and our private network is shit. To me pointing out how others run it well under the system you want isn't evidence that we will run it well considering our poor track record.

    The legality question came up in relation to the purchase of mainly energy company's in which I can't rember if it was corbyn or mcdonell said in answe to a question about cost that they would buy the companies back at below the market value at Wich point the commentators noted that such an action would be illegal and likely bring international condemnation, aside from also hitting peoples pensions who are invested.

  5. #45
    What I find totally extraordinary is that we're even discussing any subject other than Brexit.

    Before you start going all austerity on me, it's not that I don't think there are other major issues that could be addressed by a change of government. But it's a fact that this GE was called solely on the basis that BJ refused to allow parliament the opportunity to amend his bill. Were it not for Brexit, this election would not be happening.

    It should not be happening. They should all be back in Parliament amending BJ's bill into some softer version, maybe with a 2nd ref attached.

    It will be a WTO terms Brexit by the back door at the end of 2020. With the Tories claiming some sort of democratic legitimacy based on maybe 40% of the 70% electorate granting them a small working majority. Maybe (0.4 x 0.7) x 40m = 11.2m people in a country of countries whose population is 66.4m. E.g., 17% of the total population.

    It's a farce. And you're talking about trains.

  6. #46
    If I was British I would vote Labour. The Tories are so dishonest nowadays they cause too many feelings of resentment within me. Fuck those lying c***s.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    If I was British I would vote Labour. The Tories are so dishonest nowadays they cause too many feelings of resentment within me. Fuck those lying c***s.
    We have more than 2 parties. It's not an either or.

  8. #48
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Don't know what you mean be stripped of the assets it needs to exhist as a nation. When I went outside for a smoke 5 minutes ago England seemed to be still existing despite the privatised train that went past.

    The difference between us and those eu country's there not us, they run those company's well and far better than we did in the past. Just as Japan has a fully private rail network and its one of the best in the world and our private network is shit. To me pointing out how others run it well under the system you want isn't evidence that we will run it well considering our poor track record.

    The legality question came up in relation to the purchase of mainly energy company's in which I can't rember if it was corbyn or mcdonell said in answe to a question about cost that they would buy the companies back at below the market value at Wich point the commentators noted that such an action would be illegal and likely bring international condemnation, aside from also hitting peoples pensions who are invested.
    A track record based on 50 year old experience... Seems weird to think that as a nation we're just incapable of it.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    A track record based on 50 year old experience... Seems weird to think that as a nation we're just incapable of it.
    But a track record non the less when it comes to running a country and the welfair of the people living in it, good intentions are not enough, good intentions don't put food on the table, and labour has a long track record of over promising, under delivering and making massive implementation fuck ups, just as much as the torys do. Especially the crop of MPs from corbyns generation.

    I've highlighted a few times for a few policy's of how they can easily backfire and deeply wound the working class. Like his latest promise of forcibly buying back council houses. That isn't gonna be hurting the 1% that's directly aimed at those who used the right to buy to get a cheap house and on to the property ladder, you hae the landlords acossiation saying landlords are planning to sell up if Labour get in, great for the housing market but what about all those going to be evicted when there home is sold?

    If you vote Labour with those policy's I don't know how you can look some one from the working class in the eye when it back fires as all the think tanks are warning, and how mcdonell can stand up in an interview and discredit them after quoting them as warnings against brexit is beggers belief

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    It will be a WTO terms Brexit by the back door at the end of 2020. With the Tories claiming some sort of democratic legitimacy...
    Why do you think this?

    The Tories have invested too much time, effort and, most importantly, political capital into their deal (it is after all the basis on which their entire election campaign is built on) to simply abandon it at the end of next year.

    And before anyone mentions that Johnson has said that he will not extend the transition period past 2020 I would point out that he also said that we would leave the EU on 31st Oct even going so far as saying that he would rather die in a ditch than remain in the EU past the Oct deadline yet here we are coming up to Dec still in the EU and Boris Johnson - or at least someone who looks and sounds remarkably like him - is alive and well.

    In short when Johnson says we will leave at the end of transition period come what may he is bullshitting (just like all the other times) and if an extension is needed he will agree to it.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Slopgarthforthgarth has my vote

    - - - Updated - - -



    I suggested this was what I'd probably do and most of my friends lost their shit, thought it was worse than not turning up.
    If you spoil your vote what politicians are learning from that isn't that you are dissatisfied, it's that your an idiot that can't follow simple instructions.


    -x-

    How much election literature are other people getting? So far I've had one leaflet from the Tory party, that's it. As far as I can tell none of the other parties care enough to even bother asking for my vote and I sure as shit am not voting Tory so...

  12. #52
    The Metro reports the results of a Survation poll that shows that Labour is closing the gap on the Tories.



    https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/25/tory-...unch-11214646/

    It will be interesting to see if other polls show similar results and whether this the start of a swing towards Labour - like 2017 - or if the Cons can hang on to their lead.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    "We will champion freedom of
    expression and tolerance, both in the UK and overseas. To support free speech, we will repeal section 40 of the Crime
    and Courts Act 2014, which seeks to coerce the press."

    It's not exactly the 2003 communications act, but it's still a good step.

    If you're serious then you legitimately have no idea what fascism actually is.
    I'm pretty sure this has been properly responded to, but I'll just add my 10 cents.

    This is bloody ridiculous. You know what this legislation is doing? Making the MSM, owned by billionaires, responsible for when they print lies about anyone that might threaten their hold on money and power. You know what repealing it will do? Give those same billionaires the right to lie and insult pretty much anyone they want, knowing that they won't have pockets deep enough to make them pay when they do. As reasons for voting Tory it isn't the most fatuous one I've heard, but it's pretty close.

    Oh, and @LeGin Tufnel, I'm right behind you as far as PR is concerned. I would happily never see a Labour party governing on their own again if it allows us to move away from this confrontational form of politics to a version that is cooperative and requires actual grown-ups operating it. And while it's fair enough that you link me to Labour (that is probably closest to where my political heart lies) I won't be voting for them. The political landscape where I live requires my vote to go elsewhere, and I'm perfectly content with that in the system we have to operate in.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why do you think this?

    The Tories have invested too much time, effort and, most importantly, political capital into their deal (it is after all the basis on which their entire election campaign is built on) to simply abandon it at the end of next year.

    And before anyone mentions that Johnson has said that he will not extend the transition period past 2020 I would point out that he also said that we would leave the EU on 31st Oct even going so far as saying that he would rather die in a ditch than remain in the EU past the Oct deadline yet here we are coming up to Dec still in the EU and Boris Johnson - or at least someone who looks and sounds remarkably like him - is alive and well.

    In short when Johnson says we will leave at the end of transition period come what may he is bullshitting (just like all the other times) and if an extension is needed he will agree to it.
    Boris has never agreed to an EU extension and would have left on Oct 31st. He was forced to ask for one by a remain majority parliament.

    After the election we will have drained the swamp of remainer MP's and have a brexit majority parliament who won't force him to agree any extension he was against in the first place.

    That's how, do or die in a ditch, the transition ends at the end of December 2020 with a clean Brexit.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    If you spoil your vote what politicians are learning from that isn't that you are dissatisfied, it's that your an idiot that can't follow simple instructions.
    Not at all. It's an expression of disgust and contempt at a system that is comprehensively failing.

    The only reason for me to vote Lib Dem / Green / Labour, whoever would be to increase their share of the national vote. It will have no bearing on the inevitable election of a Tory MP in my constituency.

    Why shouldn't I spoil my vote?

    Same old, same old from a supporter of one of the two major parties who are favoured by FPTP

    Edit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Oh, and @LeGin Tufnel, I'm right behind you as far as PR is concerned. I would happily never see a Labour party governing on their own again if it allows us to move away from this confrontational form of politics to a version that is cooperative and requires actual grown-ups operating it. And while it's fair enough that you link me to Labour (that is probably closest to where my political heart lies) I won't be voting for them. The political landscape where I live requires my vote to go elsewhere, and I'm perfectly content with that in the system we have to operate in.
    Whereas, the above is a more sensible assessment of the situation.
    Last edited by LeGin Tufnel; 2019-11-25 at 06:22 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Vantisara View Post
    If we are going to talk about shame, I don't know how cunts like you can justify letting the tories in again. What do you say to the families of the disabled who died after their benefits were taken away, or the homeless on the streets freezing to death right now?

    Labour's manifesto contains some relatively basic and sound financial prudence despite the scaremongering of the media which you seemed to have swallowed wholesale. Even if it hadn't the tories mix of the fag-end of neo-liberalism and populism has to be one of the worst conceivable directions that country can be taken in.
    Mate im gonna belive the IFS befor I belive some banned troll posting from soc accounts on the Internet.

    Call me when you grow a pair and use your real account, till then your opinions on politics are worth less than the sock lint ln my boots

    Talking about shame when you can't even do the forum version of showing your face with what you spout.....

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Boris has never agreed to an EU extension and would have left on Oct 31st. He was forced to ask for one by a remain majority parliament.

    After the election we will have drained the swamp of remainer MP's and have a brexit majority parliament who won't force him to agree any extension he was against in the first place.

    That's how, do or die in a ditch, the transition ends at the end of December 2020 with a clean Brexit.
    Yeah, of course. Those nasty remainer MPs held his arm up behind his back until he did as he was told.

    Johnson will go back on his word at the end of 2020 just as easily as all the other times he has gone back on what he has said but it will, of course, be all someone else's fault and you and your fellow Brexiters will be, once again, moaning that Parliament stood in the way of a clean (or whatever) Brexit.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    If you spoil your vote what politicians are learning from that isn't that you are dissatisfied, it's that your an idiot that can't follow simple instructions.
    Probably a better way of showing disatisfaction than making a home made pistol, so they should probably be thankful really.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Probably a better way of showing disatisfaction than making a home made pistol, so they should probably be thankful really.
    Yes, exactly

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Vantisara View Post
    Oh yes, a right-wing think tank that believes passionately in the free-market and neo-liberalism. You so are not a tory, right.

    Maybe look up the IFS's record on almost anything, from oil projections through the bank crash through cheerleading for austerity their spectacularly useless soothsaying is significantly worse than a chimp throwing darts at a pie chart.
    And yours is worth less than that. If you can't even show your face then your opinions are worthless than a chimps.

    The reason you do this is because when labour's policy's lead to mass unemployment and a homeless crisis you can just slink away like the slimy snake you are.

    You can't even put your own forum reputation on the Labour Partys policy's yet you expect the rest of us to take a gamble on outdated policy's that we hae already fucked up befor in the past...
    Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2019-11-25 at 06:38 PM.

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