Honestly did not know world first was a thing in ff14. Ultimate Alexander

[Puremallace]

So guess I was out of the loop in WoW world but to be honest guilds over there have gotten WAY better at advertising that a World first race is happening. I did not even know until Twitch for FF14 showed a very large spike in viewers.

Does anyone have a count of how many separate mechanics in this fight? I know Ashara had something like 50 and I am amazed this Alexander fight was done without any addons like DBM or Weak Auras supported by Square Enix.

[daerellin]

There are ability timers and triggers and voice callouts available (cactbot I think?), but they are definitely not supported. While much more difficult (read: annoying) to set up than DBM, the tools available in FFXIV accomplish much the same thing.

[Puremallace]

There are ability timers and triggers and voice callouts available (cactbot I think?), but they are definitely not supported. While much more difficult (read: annoying) to set up than DBM, the tools available in FFXIV accomplish much the same thing.

Compared to the screen I am used to in WoW when raiding Ashara I can promise you this looks very different and much more difficult without the timers. I had not expected FF14 to throw that many mechanics at players without built in tools.

It is pretty refreshing to see.

[potis]

Lol Puremallace, you really went WoW-Hate deep end after Rift.

What timers do you need for abilities that take as it seems from that video, averagely 5 seconds to activate and what i saw some were even longer?

Or what it seems to be like "Big boom ability" and then nothing for a good 10-20 seconds for them to heal up, since at 90% of the video they are literally not giving a fuck about their health pool as they hover at 50%-90% because nothing is incoming any time soon.

Also, apparently "When fighting azshara" when your raider.io shows you probably gave up 3 months ago with HC Azshara, and somehow HC Azshara = Mythic Azshara? Oh wait, LFR and Normal exist, so content done, Mythic irrelevant logic, forgot.

Either way, fight seems interesting but it shows what i have been told and why i skipped FFXIV, its mega fucking yawn slow if you have ever raided/played in a high level in WoW in the past.

Sure the fight seems fun, big flashy things, but as said above, an eternity to cast, no overlaps, default safe spaces.

But, props to them creating such a flashy choreography fight, i am 5% more interested about it and congrats to those people for their world first obviously Any world first/realm first or some sort of rank is always good as a player.

[daerellin]

Compared to the screen I am used to in WoW when raiding Ashara I can promise you this looks very different and much more difficult without the timers. I had not expected FF14 to throw that many mechanics at players without built in tools.

It is pretty refreshing to see.

IIRC, the third party software for FFXIV is actually software, meaning you will not see it in FFXIV videos unless the recorder/streamer specifically captures it. They are external overlays, unlike WoW's addons.

[KrayZ33]

Either way, fight seems interesting but it shows what i have been told and why i skipped FFXIV, its mega fucking yawn slow if you have ever raided/played in a high level in WoW in the past.

Sure the fight seems fun, big flashy things, but as said above, an eternity to cast, no overlaps, default safe spaces.

when you look at things without playing it and not knowing what actually happens, then WoW is no different to that....

[CerealLord]

snip

I am in no way saying it is harder than mythic, but the fights are harder than it looks like. The fights are basically choreographed dances, like you stated. Some of mechanics are random (in sense of where they hit) and there is some overlap of abilities, but they are pretty static. As in it will always overlap here.

The hardest part is you have to watch the bosses themselves as most tank busters do not have a cast time. It is an animation, sound, or order of abilities you must know to do the fight. Basically lots of memorization.

[Historical Tenacity]

I'll never be able to beat a Savage or Ultimate when it is current.

Same goes with Mythic raiding if I view "current" as nobody has beaten it yet. At present I just get invited for a pity carry when friends have it on farm. Though Savage and Ultimate are just tuned too tightly that my inability to really perform many of the optimal rotations -- as well as the positionals required every few seconds -- is too much more me and I cause the group to fall DPS mechanics. Or make a mistake that is so punishing it just wipes everyone. Though we do try it every time a Savage or Ultimate comes out and they learn it.

Sometimes it sucks being partially disabled.

[Taeldorian]

Compared to the screen I am used to in WoW when raiding Ashara I can promise you this looks very different and much more difficult without the timers. I had not expected FF14 to throw that many mechanics at players without built in tools.

It is pretty refreshing to see.

I’ve killed mythic azshara 6 times now and I can promise you it looks and feels harder than Alex prog. I don’t think you can compare heroic azshara to ultimate alex either, mythic is a better comparison. M azshara is just a clusterfuck of mechanics. Addons make it doable, not necessarily easy. FFXIV is slower overall too, it’s why healer dps is so easily doable, they have a few mechanics and then nothing for a long while. It doesn’t take much to balance dps and healing. The mechanics are also choreographed very well making them easier to see whereas WoW has abilities that overlap and can actually be hard to see like Lightning orbs+arcane orbs on azshara. I don’t know or care which is harder but your comparison was bad.

[Swnem]

Yeah, i was surprised they were using a dbm/big wigs program. Felt cheaty. I don't want FF to go down that route. I like how visually intuitive it is.

[potis]

I am in no way saying it is harder than mythic, but the fights are harder than it looks like. The fights are basically choreographed dances, like you stated. Some of mechanics are random (in sense of where they hit) and there is some overlap of abilities, but they are pretty static. As in it will always overlap here.

The hardest part is you have to watch the bosses themselves as most tank busters do not have a cast time. It is an animation, sound, or order of abilities you must know to do the fight. Basically lots of memorization.

I aint saying it doesnt look some sort of hard, but its coming from the fact i havent played it and its just pointlessly flashy as every FF game has been lately.

PvE in any game is mostly pointless unless its RNG based, which WoW does a half pretty decent job at.

It obviously has static abilities too, which is why it makes you wonder how the fuck are people dying to fire standarly spawning around the boss at :45, 1:30, 2:15 etc, while you are trying not to die from boredom from having to dodge the same ability the last 15 years, with a different name and color, while the guy next to you just died, for various reasons, mostly involving lack of reflexes, or skill, call it whatever.

But what WoW does in PvE, the higher you go, is forcing overlaps and making you have to deal with them, the majority is just healing cooldowns lately but they also add a mix of RNG spawns in, pretty much every fight which is the supposed extra damage difficulty, so you can never stay put for long.

The fight i just saw, seems to be 90% static, hence choreography PvE, which since i dont know the game and its audience, i cant say if its easy or hard or good or bad, but i can say that if its choreography, it can be memorized, which makes it rather pointless after awhile unless there are overlaps in there that i didnt understand cause i dont play the game :P

[KrayZ33]

I wish it were as easy as people want to believe
Top players (top 20) took 5-10 days to defeat that boss.
8 players each in a raid not 25.
No trash mobs, no gear limitations (because everyone already has BiS). No weekly resets, just a room with a boss where you can pull immediately again after you wiped (you only have to wait for the pull timer)
To decipher some of these mechanics is a game on it's own and in this case, even has had lore involved.

There is also RNG involved in what mechanics you have to do and where safezones are.

[The Oblivion]

after playing both games, ffxiv ultimate fights are the closest thing to mythic final bosses, but still, easier, if only slightly. ffxiv savage raids are closer to wow heroic then mythic on average, but these ultimate are nothing to scoff at and very comparable to the hardest wow fights.

[deenman]

I wish it were as easy as people want to believe
Top players (top 20) took 5-10 days to defeat that boss.
8 players each in a raid not 25.
No trash mobs, no gear limitations (because everyone already has BiS). No weekly resets, just a room with a boss where you can pull immeadiatly again after you wiped (you only have to wait for the pull timer)
To decipher some of these mechanics is a game on it's own and in this case, even has had lore involved.

There is also RNG involved in what mechanics you have to do and where safezones are.

well if the people who are raiding in ff are the ones that got stuck on hc bosses in wow,i can see why it took them 10 days for this

[KrayZ33]

well if the people who are raiding in ff are the ones that got stuck on hc bosses in wow,i can see why it took them 10 days for this

But that's not even remotely the case...
The FFXIV "pro" scene is no worse than the WoW "pro" scene.
Literally every game that is remotely competitive has players that are exceptional, it's only a matter of how many people there are.
But with a million players playing the game, you'd think there are at least a few hundred that can do it well.

[Balbuto]

after playing both games, ffxiv ultimate fights are the closest thing to mythic final bosses, but still, easier, if only slightly. ffxiv savage raids are closer to wow heroic then mythic on average, but these ultimate are nothing to scoff at and very comparable to the hardest wow fights.

As a mythic wow raider and just casually playing ffxiv, I just reached lvl 80 and unlocked savage eden, can I do it just as it is or do I need overlays or whatever its called in ff xiv? how casual friendly is it?

[KrayZ33]

As a mythic wow raider and just casually playing ffxiv, I just reached lvl 80 and unlocked savage eden, can I do it just as it is or do I need overlays or whatever its called in ff xiv? how casual friendly is it?

You need to either join a group that is currently learning it or watch guides.
It's more of a question on how casual friendly the community is and how willingly they are to carry you.
You will die if you don't know what to do, that's just the way the bosses are designed. Every player has a role that has to be done correctly or you'll wipe your raid.

This is true even in E1S, which is pretty easy and comparable to entry level heroics Raidbosses in WoW

[The Oblivion]

As a mythic wow raider and just casually playing ffxiv, I just reached lvl 80 and unlocked savage eden, can I do it just as it is or do I need overlays or whatever its called in ff xiv? how casual friendly is it?

its extremely casual friendly. much more casual than wow raiding. watch a video on youtube. join learning parties. once learned join a clear party. most pugs do not use comms. No addons are needed. Although ACT to track your own damage is highly recommended so you can see how you are performing. you deff do not need overlays, but if you want them, they are helpful. The can call out mechanics and give timers just like DBM. totally not needed, and most players, do not use them outside of the DPS meter. its very akin to pugging a heroic raid in wow.

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well if the people who are raiding in ff are the ones that got stuck on hc bosses in wow,i can see why it took them 10 days for this

if you are not clearing mythic final bosses within 2 weeks of release, you probably are not killing this any faster.

[The Oblivion]

The skillset is exactly the same. You just have to get used to the different pace of the games & different classes. I think FFXIV is less math-intensive but it's still impressive because of the memory and concentration you have to dish out to play at that level.

another big thing with ultimate fights, they scale your gear. so they can never be out geared unlike mythic wow encounters.

[The Oblivion]

That sounds fantastic and fun to play since you don't have to grind pointless things.

it can deff be fun, but at the start, a lot of it is the opposite. ffxiv has a MASSIVE issue with transparency. mechanics will put debuffs on you that say nothing. literally nothing. so your only choice is to slam your head figuring out what it does. this is not skilled, its not a show of ability or talent, its horrendously tedious. I am sure some like that, but if it wasnt for these first groups doing these bosses, most of the next 200 kills wouldnt happen, because just sitting around guessing for weeks, is not that much fun for most people and the resolution to the mechanic is so complicated it would take thousands of tries to guess what to do, if you ever even did guess right.

for this fight people literally had to go into the code of the game, to learn what the debuff did. because there is no in game way to figure it out. that for me, is really, really dumb and bad game play.

the only other downside to not being able to over gear it, is that they make the dps check very reachable. so its not as tightly tuned as a week 1 mythic end boss. It is still hard though and requires top tier play. Then you add in VERY VERY VERY bad class(job) balance, where some jobs do 20% more damage, and you realize you are better off re rolling, because square is extremely bad at balancing dps. much worse than wow. its like vanilla wow balance at best. in fact they follow vanilla balance rules, things like your job having utility or buffs, mean you do less damage than pures. all melee's out dps all ranged. 2/3 casters are top tier dps, but one is so bad, you could bring a 3rd healer instead and do close to the same damage.

it can sound like i hate the game, but i love it. its just people have to know the things you deal with in ffxiv. its not perfect, but it is still great. the raiding in ffxiv is much more casual on average and very enjoyable. the tiers are small (4 bosses) so you can get through things pretty quickly without needing to wipe for weeks. Gear is far less important in ffxiv compared to wow as well. So it means you dont need to grind all day every day to be competitive. They also dont have bad mechanics like warforging so you can achieve your real BiS sets without rng. You dont need addons. You dont need voice comms. You dont even need gear most of the time. If you can execute in ffxiv, most bosses will die.