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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Maybe because it is so blatant these days and half the promotion for the movies is about how Woke it is. I can't remember seeing any kind of hate for the Blade Movies or Kill Bill or the plethora of Jet Li movies in the early 2000's because they just cast the Actors, made the movies and released it. Now when they do it half the fucking press junkets are them talking about "Like omg how empowered we are cuz we black now" or "This movie is a pioneer cuz Women lead!" When there have been plenty of movies previously with "minority" actors that People loved.
    The sad part is that it feels like this extends well beyond the promotional aspect and into the creativity process of the films. Quite a bit of this film promotion/creation mentality revolves around shallow thinking, which makes sense since it's based in the shallowness of "woke" identity politics. It's quite an irrational time when the "rational" identity politics response is judging the worth of someone/something based upon skin color, sex, orientation, etc. of the lead character(s). If it were just random people stating such nonsensical things about these films, one could pass it off as crazy or insanely dumb people protesting about nothing.... but it's the producers/directors/actors of the films themselves espousing such absurdities about their own work!

    To shallow people who live in their own bubble (like these producers/directors/actors), the outcome of a film ends up pretty binary. If the films fail, it's because people aren't "woke" like the producers/directors/actors in the film. If the film succeeds, it's because people embrace the "woke" culture. To a rational person with some level of self-awareness, the success or failure of a film boils down to whether it was actually entertaining and/or palatable as a whole, not if it's "woke". What should be very clear (as this happens in government, as well) is that the main focus of the "woke" producers/directors/actors is not the film's entertainment value or the enjoyment of the people who are going to watch the film, it's identity politics and the message. Worst part is that their behavior and hostile mannerisms in response to the rejection of said films, where even if you think you're "woke" yet don't like their film... well, obvious you're not "woke" enough and part of the problem. It's an all-or-nothing game, and even then it's never enough.

    What does this have to do with Chris Evans? Well, unless he comes out and say something about his acting career decisions, we'll never know for sure. However, it's no secret that he's left-leaning, and has dabbled his toe in the "woke" culture before. To put it bluntly, as I think someone else joked, he's very low on the totem pole when it comes to his value in the land of "woke" identity politics. If he's started to see that he's being weighed and measured not by his acting ability or potential contributions to a film project but his skin/sex/etc. and his level of embracing all that is "woke", I would not blame him in the slightest for stepping away from such a toxic environment. It's all just another form of racism, where the content of your character and the contributions you can make are always secondary to your skin color, your sex, orientation, etc.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2019-11-27 at 09:35 AM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Careful with that stretch you'll pull something, bigot. Majority of my favorites aren't even men, let alone white. Psylocke is my favorite from marvel, and second favorite hero. She's an asian character. Again, if they replaced her with a white woman (they did temp and I dropped the comic harder than you drop hate on whites) And by replacing a hero and keeping their original name for "inclusivity" is literally killing off heroes to make things less white rather than reinvent characters. for DC it's Raven, again if they replaced her with say an Australian man, I'd freak out just as hard.
    Actually originally, Psylocke was a white woman. She's Captain Britains twin sister. You should know this if you're such a big fan.


    EDIT:

    I saw that I had a notification...but by the time I checked it just said "Deleted Post"...I wonder who that might have been and why they felt the need to almost immediately delete the post.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2019-11-27 at 10:10 AM.

  3. #103
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Actually originally, Psylocke was a white woman. She's Captain Britains twin sister. You should know this if you're such a big fan.


    EDIT:

    I saw that I had a notification...but by the time I checked it just said "Deleted Post"...I wonder who that might have been and why they felt the need to almost immediately delete the post.
    Not me, because I don't delete things, I keep them open right or wrong.

    Also, didn't know about that as I didn't start reading comics till the 90's so I only know bits from the 80's till now. And now my love for psylocke fell into nothingness. Again, I hate race washing characters for any stupid reasons. Thank you for making me hate a character I loved.
    You know, it's kinda funny. On this forum you can question and criticize celebrities, developers, even governments. But only two you will net you instant infractions; religion and the actions of moderators. Really puts into perspective the literal god complexes we're dealing with here.

  4. #104
    Hulk really feels like a supporting character to me nowadays. There were a couple early MCU hulk movies but i don't think any of them did very well.

    Honestly he kinda felt like the comic relief lately, and I don't think that's enough for a standalone movie. So yeah, that puts him in "we'll see if we can fit you in (as a support character in another hero's movie)" territory.
    Last edited by horbindr; 2019-11-27 at 10:32 AM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Not me, because I don't delete things, I keep them open right or wrong.

    Also, didn't know about that as I didn't start reading comics till the 90's so I only know bits from the 80's till now. And now my love for psylocke fell into nothingness. Again, I hate race washing characters for any stupid reasons. Thank you for making me hate a character I loved.
    I didn't "make" you do anything... but you're welcome anyway. It's not exactly a secret that she's Captain Britain's sister. Are you sure you were actually reading the comics and not just looking at the pictures?

    Also, she's one of the only examples of actual "race-washing" a character. There have been times when another character picked up the mantle of an existing character....but it's still a different character. Tony Stark wasn't turned into a black man... James Rhodes just took on the mantle of Iron Man. There have been multiple characters using the mantles of Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, and Thor... but there's only ever been one Peter Parker (except for Clones), Steve Rogers (again except for clones), Tony Stark (except when he was replaced by his younger self), and Thor Odinson (except for that Cyborg/clone thingy).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by horbindr View Post
    Hulk really feels like a supporting character to me nowadays. There were a couple early MCU hulk movies but i don't think any of them did very well.

    Honestly he kinda felt like the comic relief lately, and I don't think that's enough for a standalone movie. So yeah, that puts him in "we'll see if we can fit you in (as a support character in another hero's movie)" territory.
    There was only one MCU hulk movie.The other Hulk movie is not connected. The reason there hasnt been more Hulk movies is that, while Disney owns the film rights to Hulk, Universal still holds distribution rights. So Disney can use Hulk...but only in movies where he isn't the main star.

  6. #106
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I didn't "make" you do anything... but you're welcome anyway. It's not exactly a secret that she's Captain Britain's sister. Are you sure you were actually reading the comics and not just looking at the pictures?

    Also, she's one of the only examples of actual "race-washing" a character. There have been times when another character picked up the mantle of an existing character....but it's still a different character. Tony Stark wasn't turned into a black man... James Rhodes just took on the mantle of Iron Man. There have been multiple characters using the mantles of Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, and Thor... but there's only ever been one Peter Parker (except for Clones), Steve Rogers (again except for clones), Tony Stark (except when he was replaced by his younger self), and Thor Odinson (except for that Cyborg/clone thingy).

    - - - Updated - - -



    There was only one MCU hulk movie.The other Hulk movie is not connected. The reason there hasnt been more Hulk movies is that, while Disney owns the film rights to Hulk, Universal still holds distribution rights. So Disney can use Hulk...but only in movies where he isn't the main star.
    When they pick up the mantel they seldom take their name, and the only time they do take their name is so that people won't think that character died or whatever. Yes, I was reading the comics, in the 90's xmen comics as far as I can honest to god remember they didn't mention any of that.
    You know, it's kinda funny. On this forum you can question and criticize celebrities, developers, even governments. But only two you will net you instant infractions; religion and the actions of moderators. Really puts into perspective the literal god complexes we're dealing with here.

  7. #107
    Ruffalo reciting something someone else said isn't the same as someone else having said what Ruffalo said.
    You're just jumping to the most random conclusions because, lemme just do the same here, you seem to be one of those the MCU is obviously dead now boys, let's all start trashtalking it because that's what the cool kids do now people.

  8. #108
    Think you are over thinking it dude...... Its been over 10 years with the frontline characters as much as id like them to stay they cant all be there forever. The movies dont work like the comics where they can just reboot it or eternally stay 35 years old. When Iron man 1 came out i never expected we would have the MCU where it is now.

    Its obvious after trying Hulk before and it not being great they never had himset out for another Solo movie (with the rights complications as well). 10 years ago i remember hearing that Feige that things planned on a white board somewhere till 2021, im sure now he has a rough layout for things till 2030.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    When they pick up the mantel they seldom take their name, and the only time they do take their name is so that people won't think that character died or whatever. Yes, I was reading the comics, in the 90's xmen comics as far as I can honest to god remember they didn't mention any of that.
    They've always taken the name. James Rhodes became Iron Man (and later War Machine). John Walker became Captain America (and later US Agent). Erik Masterson became Thor (later Thunderstrike). Danny Ketch became Ghostrider. Etc Etc Etc.

    Not just Marvel either. How many Robins have their been? How many Batmans?
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2019-11-27 at 10:57 AM.

  10. #110
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    They've always taken the name. James Rhodes became Iron Man (and later War Machine). John Walker became Captain America (and later US Agent). Erik Masterson became Thor (later Thunderstrike). Danny Ketch became Ghostrider. Etc Etc Etc.

    Not just Marvel either. How many Robins have their been? How many Batmans?
    It's different when it's a title like robin or ghostrider, but yeah I've always hated it every time that it's an established character where they're not taking the mantel briefly (like war machine taking over for iron man was done briefly) to try to convince the rest of the world the person isn't dead. The MCU is modeling their newer stories after the rebooted comics that plunged marvel comics into near bankruptcy.
    You know, it's kinda funny. On this forum you can question and criticize celebrities, developers, even governments. But only two you will net you instant infractions; religion and the actions of moderators. Really puts into perspective the literal god complexes we're dealing with here.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryci View Post
    They can use Hulk as a main character... it has always been a main character in the MCU they just can't make a stand alone Hulk movie because the publishing rights belong to Universal.
    Its distribution rights that Universal owns.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by JDL49 View Post
    Its distribution rights that Universal owns.
    That is the same thing. Marvel still owns the character.

  13. #113
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    Evans has wanted to get out of acting to direct for years now; he phased himself out to the point his MCU work has largely been the only projects he's taken lately and he apparently opted not to renew his contract, instead working on a per-film basis after it ran out. It's got nothing to do with [insert agenda here] unless/until we hear it from his own mouth.

    As far as Hulk, the Hulk's movie rights are in a messy spot right now. Solo films headlined by the Hulk have to split profits with Universal, at least until Marvel can resecure full movie rights, and furthermore, Marvel seems unwilling to give the Hulk another outing on his own after The Incredible Hulk didn't meet expectations. Banner just seems to work better in the MCU as a deuteragonist/supporting role.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    I can't believe you lot and how you think. My favorite character in any hero scenario is Spawn. A black man. I'd be just as outraged if they replaced him with a hispanic social just pushing character that calls himself also spawn. No, that's bad and dumb writing. If you see this specifically as a race only issue, you're a fucking racist.
    Has this ever actually happened? I keep seeing people say that this kind of thing is happening, along with things like "how would you feel if they made a Malcolm X movie and cast Tom Hanks in the lead role?" that also has never happened. What movie did they take a previously white hero and cast a non-white actor to play them? The only example I can think of is Nick Fury but the only reason they cast Sam Jackson in that role is because they literally modeled the Ultimates universe version of the character after him in the comics. And I am not talking things like having Kamala Khan become the new Ms. Marvel or Riri Williams take up the mantle of Iron Man for awhile before becoming Ironheart because they have been doing that kinda thing in the comics for eons. I am talking something like having a black actor or a female actress play Steve Rogers or something.

    **EDIT**
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    But funny, if this was reverse, and they were making Black Panther be played by Jim Carry, I'm sure you'd be shitting your pants, bigot.
    Lol! Yep. Shoulda known that was coming.


    That is also not what I was talking about at all. I was talking about people who get upset over things like the Black Widow movie or the She Hulk TV series and claim they only exist because Disney is trying to be "woke" and appeal to the SJWs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Also the storylines they're going to be using now are from the comics that tanked marvel comics so low that disney could just outright buy them out.
    What storylines are you talking about exactly? I really have not heard anything at all about what they are planning for the next phase of the MCU.
    Last edited by Skizzit; 2019-11-27 at 01:58 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Disney cannot use Hulk yet as a main character, they still don't have the rights. They can only use him as a secondary character, which will forever be a waste of a hero imo. I'd rather not see Hulk anywhere than having a dumbed down Hulk being useless all day long as we had recently.

    Let's wait until Disney buys Universal
    Yeah, I suspect its mostly this. There are legal issues at play here. Same goes for spidy, Sony has the rights and for marvel to use that character lawyers have to get involved.

    As far as the producers go, who know. Those disney executives live in a different reality as far as I can tell. Hard to judge people in that position based off of a few paragraphs worth of quotes. tbh, this is true for everyone.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    At the time when the movies came out Iron Man comic sales were pretty garbage averaging around 50 books sold per month which is significantly less than the 150K-180K average the previous decade before the movie. Even after the movie they didn't help out sales.

    Stark's importance is huge in the comics universe, it just never translated well to sales. He was never a popular character.
    Compared to many characters in the marvel house, his comic was sold by a lot and could keep a long run in his individual serie but he never was capable of comparing against Spider-Man or Batman. Now after the 2000 the sales of comics went down and also the iron man in the comics was different from the Robert Down Jr one which didn't attract new readers either

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayeet View Post
    Yeah wrong. First of all Iron man didn't even break the top 10 of sales (overall and looking year by year sales).

    Second it was sold out because they were generally low volume prints compared to batman, superman, and all the far more popular heroes.
    Those 2 were present in the media even before their first movie, so an unfair comparision there

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Agreed.
    As for Evans...well, he's doing some solid movies so far, and with "Knives Out" this week, still staying relevant.
    Likely he got burn out of the character as well and probably wanted to try new things now that he's relevant and not fall into the Mark Hamill curse
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    It's different when it's a title like robin or ghostrider, but yeah I've always hated it every time that it's an established character where they're not taking the mantel briefly (like war machine taking over for iron man was done briefly) to try to convince the rest of the world the person isn't dead. The MCU is modeling their newer stories after the rebooted comics that plunged marvel comics into near bankruptcy.
    They are always taking the mantle briefly. It always reverts back to the original within a few years. You want to pretend its different now because it justifies your outrage...but it's always the same thing. Dick Grayson was Batman...until Bruce Wayne returned. James Rhodes was Iron Man...Until Tony Stark returned. John Walker, Bucky Barnes, Sam Wilson...all temporarily Captain America until Steve Rogers returned.

    Marvel Comics bankruptcy period came a lot earlier than you think it did. It was in the 90's with them finally filing for bankruptcy in 1997. That's why they had to start selling off film rights to their biggest IP's. After the successful release of Iron Man...they were making real money. Disney didn't buy Marvel because it was a failing company...they bought it because they wanted in on that action.

    You got anything else I can prove you wrong about?
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2019-11-27 at 07:19 PM.

  18. #118
    While C lister might be a bit of a stretch, Ironman was never more than a B lister. When you ask people about marvel comics pre Ironman 1 what do they talk about? Spider-man and the X-men. No one talks about the animated Ironman series in the 90s nor the Hulk one which was really good.

  19. #119
    Shame that the Hulk is seen as comedy...

    Acquittal doesn't mean exoneration


  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    I think it is closer to double production costs to break even. Triple to be considered a success.
    Double to cover production costs. But triple+ to also cover distribution costs. On bigger budget projects (175 million+) it actually gets to be about 3.5x. Otoh if you drop below 100 million the percentage will go down a fair amount from 3x.
    Last edited by JDL49; 2019-11-27 at 11:02 PM.

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