View Poll Results: Do you like the "expansion theme" of Shadowlands?

Voters
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  • Yes

    252 64.95%
  • No

    136 35.05%
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  1. #81
    It's a better theme than the last four expansions, so yes.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I'd say experiencing the story are what the casual players probably mostly care about. Although they only view the story in a superficial and surface level lens that the marketing team wants them to see.
    What are you basing this on? The majority of players know next to nothing about lore and are not invested in it. Heck even majority of youtubers that are into lore say they only started paying attention to it as an after thought.

    Casual players just want to log on enjoy their 2-4 hours and log off. They're not avidly following the story, probably barely even reading quest text - people even want to be able to skip the "stay and listen" quests lol.

  3. #83
    I don't mind the theme but it feels poorly implemented. I would like the game to be a simple, well finished MMORPG, with interesting gameplay, not a mish-mash of intrusive mechanics (covenants, soulbinds, etc...) that are "supposed" to improve the game like the explorations, battlefronts, azerite Gear and other things "did" for BFA.
    Last edited by Loeko; 2019-11-27 at 10:29 PM.

  4. #84
    Its a bit disjointed. With basically angels, faeries, vampires and liches. But honestly I am happy to go back to a more generic fantasy theme.

  5. #85
    After MoP the bar for fitting into the warcraft universe is **very** low.

    That said, I think the theme is the strongest part of the expansion we know of so far. Nothing about the gameplay looks like more than a patch to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    The difference is that in tbc you could play a draenei and feel connected to the world.

    In legion you could play a demon Hunter and get connected to the theme

    In mop the Pandas and monks and so on

    In Shadowlands? No idea really. My elves will be running around in those weird transmogs and yeah... That's it

    But ofc I'm gonna play it and I hope there actual feeling will be good
    I dont think Draenei felt "connected to the world" at all. They were wholly foreign, only connected to the franchise by some nebulous devolved version of their race that you aren't even playing. Their capital was a space ship, they were led by goodness alien chimes.

    Same with MoP and Pandaren. They were totally disconnected from the rest of the story outside of Chen Stormstout being in Frozen Throne, and even then he was more of an outlier than how the rest of the Pandaren acted.

    Having no connection can be a good thing if the franchise has been stale for almost a decade.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    I dont think Draenei felt "connected to the world" at all. They were wholly foreign, only connected to the franchise by some nebulous devolved version of their race that you aren't even playing. Their capital was a space ship, they were led by goodness alien chimes.

    Same with MoP and Pandaren. They were totally disconnected from the rest of the story outside of Chen Stormstout being in Frozen Throne, and even then he was more of an outlier than how the rest of the Pandaren acted.

    Having no connection can be a good thing if the franchise has been stale for almost a decade.
    I agree, people are already complaining about too much orcs (WoD) too much demons (Legion) too much faction war (BfA). What alternative is there but something entirely new?

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    Okay, but I doubt that is representative given the majority of players complaints revolve around:

    • RNG
    • Endless Grind
    • Azerite Armour
    • Warfronts
    • Island Expeditions
    • Feeling less powerful vs Legion
    • Titanforging
    • Not being alt-friendly

    Of all the things people complain about re BfA that affects the success of the game, story is extremely low on the list.
    Story is extremely high on the list to those who have been fans of the lore for a long time.

    "My reasons are better than yours" get off your high horse.

  9. #89
    Field Marshal Resident Rump's Avatar
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    Going to the Shadowlands is okay. But doing this Sylvanas thing for another expansion? Tiresome.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Story is extremely high on the list to those who have been fans of the lore for a long time.

    "My reasons are better than yours" get off your high horse.
    You seem to be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying story isn't important to some players (it is an important to me for example). Nothing to do with high horses, you don't need to be so combative.

    I'm saying that: 1) For the overwhelming majority it isn't, evidenced by the points I mentioned being complained about far more than the story 2) the story isn't what causes most people to subscribe/unsubscribe - if i didn't enjoy the gaming experience I could follow the story quite easily without playing, conversely if I don't like the story but enjoy the gameplay the only way I can get that experience is through being subscribed hence why the devs put comparably less effort into the story, it does't translate to $ in the same way gameplay does.

  11. #91
    Yeah, the idea of exploring death and all that surrounds it is a very common thread that almost everyone can relate to.

  12. #92
    completely, what i miss is the "no new class".

  13. #93
    Mechagnome Pakheth's Avatar
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    I am kinda indifferent. It definitely looks more interesting than what BfA ended up giving us, and I prefer completely new stuff over old stuff as that gives the devs more freedom to be creative. Being chained down by lore isn't always a good thing.
    But I dunno, I'm not completely sold on the concept yet.

    I'm positive I guess?

  14. #94
    I feel shadowlands had a good thing going for it - Just the way it's being led into is not a good story.

    A realm of death makes sense in a fantasy world. Souls have to go somewhere if they can be resurrected or brought back from death. It even could have been cool to have something like "too much death" like they tried to play around with in BfA, but the way they framed it with the faction war ending prematurely, Sylvanas not getting her comeuppance and instead surviving to mary-sue the shit out of Bolvar, and finally with the sudden shattering of the veil when there was almost no build up to it? Not good.

    They easily could have had Siege 2.0 and had us fighting Sylvanas, us watching as we're seeing strange occurances (like images of future people we'll see throughout Shadowlands appearing and speaking, in broken conversation, about things we don't yet understand.) throughout the raid, and the deathblow against her being the final strike which shattered the veil. (With cool fight mechanics where she's swaying the veil which separates life and death.) Not only would this have been a proper end to the faction war - This would have handled Sylvanas right in that the war which she started, ends with her death, AND it would have had that moment where we realize Sylvanas IS planning something and isn't just playing 3d chess blindfolded - And not only was she planning something, but we fell right into her trap of bringing it about.

    Which also doesn't prevent her from going to the Maw. Now that she's dead again, Shadowlands COULD have still used her. The special thing about a realm of death? The dead go there. It would have made perfect sense for us to kill Sylvanas, have that be the killing blow against her, and us SEE the Jailer save her from the Maw. That's when we realize we've been led by the nose the whole time.

    That's telling a story. That's giving us just enough info to follow along, be the driving force of the story, but not fully understand that we're actually losing this fight. In this scenario, we did everything Sylvanas wanted. We've lost, for all intents and purposes. The current situation? We won. She was forced to leave and lick her wounds. Now a completely unrelated scenario might as well be playing out. In the current situation, we have no reason to believe Sylvanas' current actions are related to her actions leading into Shadowlands other than Sylvanas' own word. Take that out, and she's just another reoccurring villain that just won't die due to plot armor.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2019-11-28 at 09:59 AM.
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  15. #95
    I am Murloc! Zuben's Avatar
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    I find it generally interesting, but I'm concerned Blizzard doesn't have the chops to make it great. It's a detailed look into Warcraft's afterlife-system and thus under increased scrutiny; how they make it in this expansion will be the ruleset for death from then on.

    The Jailer as the main villain of the expansion is weak, since he's apparently an entirely new character who we haven't connected with. Granted, entirely new characters can make good villains, as was witnessed in Elisande and Lei Shen, but the main baddie is a carrying force of an expansion, so they need to be something we look forward to facing as we go through lesser bosses in lower raid tiers. The leaked design of the Jailer is too uninspired for that, more looking like a first tier boss. If he's supposed to gain favor for having Sylvanas by his side, I'm afraid we're all a bit tired of her at this point.

    Then there's the realm of Shadowlands itself, which is a personal issue for me. Is it too earthly? But then again I like earthly settings. But a deathrealm isn't supposed to be all mortal-like? Why does it have native creatures? What I'm trying to say is that these death-realms don't feel at all like death. It's more like there are some floating islands in the sky we're traveling to. By and large only the Maw sounds otherwordly enough to pass.

    And finally, I'm worried of theological implications. We can agree that in our modern world no religion can universally be accepted as fact of how we should think or what we should value, yes? Subscribe to their teachings if you want, but universally mankind is free to think for themselves, feel what they feel and make their own choices. For the sake of argument we assume there is an afterlife instead of nothingness. What kind of existence will it be? Is it neutral for all, or are we judged by an entity? In the latter case, by what kind scale and values? If they are axiomatic, can we realistically be aware of them while we live our measurable lives?

    If the answer is no, then it feels like we should just live our lives the way we feel is right for us. In this regard, if we die content with our choices, shouldn't we, in a reward/punishment system, be rewarded rather than punished? Well, no, if we are judged by axiomatic values that differ from our own. The Arbiter is the personified judge in Shadowlands, but we don't know how infallible she is and what factors into her judgment. What raises flags for me the most is Revendreth's declared purpose as a sort of purgatory, where souls go should they require, shall we say, rehabilitating incarceration. Kael was confirmed to be there, even though to his dying breath he seemed content in his choices.

    So, we the players, free-willed and free-thinking, are represented by characters in-game that are getting into all sorts of mischief and mayhem. In this sense, shouldn't our fate, for the sake argument, be Revendreth as well, like we've done wrong? Considering our characters are praised as heroes and champions as if we were Uther Mk 2, I don't think that's what Blizzard is trying to say. So then what is the deal with Revendreth? This is an issue that's problematic both in theological sense as well as world-building coherency.

    If I was Blizzard I'd ditch the reward/punishment part of Shadowlands and just have the realms be judged by the souls' personality. Uther is obviously Bastion-material, maybe Kael would find Revendreth's cool gothic-like vampire fantasy a comforting afterlife, rather than be there to get buttfucked.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Keihndeth View Post
    I'm not sure you can say it has "a focused theme" when BlizzCon revealed almost nothing about the Shadowlands other than Covenants, and almost none of it was well detailed. The Devs don't even know yet. At first glance when we saw BFA for the first time at BlizzCon 2017, you could have said the same about it being a "faction-war" themed and focused expansion. It didn't turn out that way, however.
    Didn't they mention Azshara or show some of the tentacle faced mobs? That might have been the Blizzcon after. If so, fair point, the Dragon Isles plot or w/e they wanna might be heavily involved in Shadowlands aswell.

  17. #97
    I'm really looking forward to it! Very excited for the new zones, and I'm pretty intruiged about the covenant system and how that's going to work.
    As for the story, I'm a bit unsure. I'm looking forward to explore more about the Jailer and who that is, their role, etc.

  18. #98
    I hated main theme of BfA. Shadowlands may turn out good. I just need to ignore the BfA ending and go on.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    In lore you never die outside specific instances like the Argus fight.
    Complaining about that is one the same level as complaining that the story is ruined because your character can carry 50 sets of armor on their person without it showing anywhere, or that you do not instakill enemies when you hit them with an arrow.
    You missed my point, it doesn't make sense. I guess there will be fishing and cooking in Shadowlands also, since your spirit will need to eat....right...

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by dbaum23 View Post
    You missed my point, it doesn't make sense. I guess there will be fishing and cooking in Shadowlands also, since your spirit will need to eat....right...
    No, you're missing the point. We're going to the Shadowlands alive.

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