Do you want to kill Sylvanas this expansion?

[Trassk]

When they get mad that Saurfang didn't just follow orders and call him a traitor, even though Sylvanas straight up betrayed the Horde, was using them, and following her without question would have doomed everyone to death. Going along with Sylvanas' plans would have been the real betrayal of the Horde. It's especially funny when they bring up Saurfang and Co. killing some Sylvanas loyalists on the way to free Baine as some kind of super betrayal like "look, they killed some Horde dudes, that means they're traitors!" completely ignoring the fact that they were loyalists and had they succeeded, not only would they have died anyway, but the whole Horde would have.

The funny thing is ever since the early days I knew her collective fans were toxic, you couldn't say a bad thing about her without them screaming at you like a Karen wanting a manager, but now that she's become the villain of the story they've become so desperate to validate it still by pegging blame on others or demonizing other characters who have done far less in terms of negative actions

[AcidicSyn]

Only if my character can be rendered into an awesome Blizzard Art Team cinematic to do it. Otherwise no, I do not want to kill Sylvanas in this or any other expansion.

Oh and preferably also include some kind of character development for Nathanos as a result; don't just kill him off with her. (Go ahead and kill him off, just not at the same time imo)

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The funny thing is ever since the early days I knew her collective fans were toxic, you couldn't say a bad thing about her without them screaming at you like a Karen wanting a manager, but now that she's become the villain of the story they've become so desperate to validate it still by pegging blame on others or demonizing other characters who have done far less in terms of negative actions

I don't really understand fans frankly. YES surfang was a traitor, by definition. To pretend that he wasn't is to willingly ignore the plot of the story. Weather or not he betrayed the Horde by betraying Sylvanas however is a matter of philosophy. Sylvanas also betrayed the Horde, multiple times even if we don't count the wrathgate retcon (which I personally hate too but whatever, its canon).

Sylv fans go nuts trying to justify the obvious actions of a tyrant. Anti-Sylv fans foam at the mouth over every thing she does as though none of it was good (good in this context meaning a good choice, not as in the opposite of evil, but rather a tactical one).

Should Saurfang have obeyed orders? Another question of philosophy. I fight for Horde dominance over the Alliance, and so I say yes; honor be damned he should have executed Malfurion, I'd have done it for him if game mechanics allowed me to.

Does my belief that he should have done so invalidate the beliefs of other Horde members who do not want war at all? Not at all. Does it validate Sylvanas' actions that followed? of course not. Would she have done it anyway? In hindsight we can say she likely would have, but if we keep to the context of that point in time we (Horde soldiers) couldn't know that she would.

I see fans on here from every side imaginable redefining what it means to be toxic almost daily and it's disgusting. Rather than discuss something objectively, within the context of the story, they'd all just rather ree at eachother because the other person doesn't agree with how they feel things should, would, or could have worked out.

As a fan of Sylvanas myself, of course I dislike the direction Blizz has taken with the character, I very much preferred the cold, pragmatic character hellbent on vengeance from TFT through wrath; but to pretend she hasn't become what she has would be just as ignorant a position to take as those pretending Saurfang wasn't a traitor.

(Funny thing about the word traitor, it's highly subjective, depending on which side of the line you're standing on, the same person can be both a traitor and a patriot)

[Biske]

(Funny thing about the word traitor, it's highly subjective, depending on which side of the line you're standing on, the same person can be both a traitor and a patriot)

You're not wrong, but I should clarify that while yes, he did in fact betray Sylvanas, I personally find it a little absurd to claim he is a traitor to the Horde since if he hadn't, he'd be an accomplice in the destruction of the Horde had she succeeded. It's also true he did not know that was her end goal at the time of his decision to leave, but going full on against Sylvanas didn't come (as far as I remember) until she attempted to have him killed (up until then he was brooding and contemplating suicide through combat and even then, he never sought the destruction of the Horde, just Sylvanas.

Regardless, I don't see rebellion against a tyrant to be a bad thing. Like, if you tell me "Garona betrayed Gul'dan", my first reaction won't be "omg hang the traitor".

[Good ol Stroggylos]

"this world is a prison and I will let us free" : subs going down in bfa so she is doing her job quite effectively

[scelero]

No. she's breaking us free from our chains. and we don't even understand it completely. i'm ride or die.

[MrLachyG]

"this world is a prison and I will let us free" : subs going down in bfa so she is doing her job quite effectively

considering you have no idea what the sub level is, you're just pandering to the wow doomsayers

as for what I think should happen to Sylvanas, I don't think we should kill her but I don't think she can be redeemed either - I think she needs to be trapped somewhere deep in the Maw

[Raisei]

The poster I quoted is clearly implying it. People like you never cease to surprise me.

The poster you quoted was not implying it. I know because that was me and I know what I implied. @omeomorfismo actually got is completely right, you on the other hand twisted my words. Which is pretty common on this forum so I felt no particular urge to correct you, as people like you have ceased to surprise me.

Obviously you can criticize Christie's work without being an idiot. But there is an immense difference between constructively discussing problems in literature and being a dick to an author, attacking their work whenever possible and on every plattfrom available.

The idiots I was aiming at attribute every last story decision of Warcraft in the last 15 years to Golden, spewing immense amounts of hatred all over the net just because they dislike the story. Sometimes they even claim that things that are canon for years aren't and that Christie just failed to grasp the concepts of a character.
Like those guys in the Sylvanas cult claiming she was actually a decent person up till BFA and it was Golden not understanding and villifying her, while every last bit of of context from years back show her as an evil monster that would drink baby blood if it would keep her alive.

[Specialka]

The poster you quoted was not implying it. I know because that was me and I know what I implied. @omeomorfismo actually got is completely right, you on the other hand twisted my words. Which is pretty common on this forum so I felt no particular urge to correct you, as people like you have ceased to surprise me.

Obviously you can criticize Christie's work without being an idiot. But there is an immense difference between constructively discussing problems in literature and being a dick to an author, attacking their work whenever possible and on every plattfrom available.

The idiots I was aiming at attribute every last story decision of Warcraft in the last 15 years to Golden, spewing immense amounts of hatred all over the net just because they dislike the story. Sometimes they even claim that things that are canon for years aren't and that Christie just failed to grasp the concepts of a character.
Like those guys in the Sylvanas cult claiming she was actually a decent person up till BFA and it was Golden not understanding and villifying her, while every last bit of of context from years back show her as an evil monster that would drink baby blood if it would keep her alive.

That or Ion is the worst game director ever (even for decisions he did not take because he was not game director at the time) and especially without constructive arguments.

[th3478t9gr89h2r89]

Well yes, while I would like to see her dead, I also think death is too easy an option for her. So I thought out some alternat endings for her.


Ending 1: She gets turned into a imp mother and trapped in a cave. You can go there and poke her with a stick for fun. Also present in said cave is Nathanos' decapitated head (but hes still alive) which you can kick around.

Ending 2: she dies cannonly, but her death is caused in some side quest. In the quest you are helping a gnome and a goblin decide who is the superior engineer. As the 2 engineers are testing their inventions against one another, Sylvanas gets caught in the crossfire unexpectedly and dies.

Ending 3: she doesnt die. She instead gets lightforged and redeemed. She then does a 360 character change and begins worshipping the mighty human male potential. We get introduced to a new character, Chadadin, whos entire character is hes a human male paladin chad. And sylvanas new purpose is to be his arm candy. You can do side quests with Chadadin in various zones (similair to maximillian of northshire) and during said quests you can find Nathanos standing around peeping by corners and trees. These side quest lines will be present each expansion kinda like how nesingwary wants you to hunt new beasts every now and then.

[Soon-TM]

Well yes, while I would like to see her dead, I also think death is too easy an option for her. So I thought out some alternat endings for her.


Ending 1: She gets turned into a imp mother and trapped in a cave. You can go there and poke her with a stick for fun. Also present in said cave is Nathanos' decapitated head (but hes still alive) which you can kick around.

Ending 2: she dies cannonly, but her death is caused in some side quest. In the quest you are helping a gnome and a goblin decide who is the superior engineer. As the 2 engineers are testing their inventions against one another, Sylvanas gets caught in the crossfire unexpectedly and dies.

Ending 3: she doesnt die. She instead gets lightforged and redeemed. She then does a 360 character change and begins worshipping the mighty human male potential. We get introduced to a new character, Chadadin, whos entire character is hes a human male paladin chad. And sylvanas new purpose is to be his arm candy. You can do side quests with Chadadin in various zones (similair to maximillian of northshire) and during said quests you can find Nathanos standing around peeping by corners and trees. These side quest lines will be present each expansion kinda like how nesingwary wants you to hunt new beasts every now and then.

Ending 3 sounds highly likely, for some reason... But I'd very much prefer Ending 2

[Krewshi]

Dont want her to die
I want her to be in the maw for all of eternity

[yamix]

I don't think killing her would be very satisfying. Feels too formulaic at this point.

[Shakana]

The poster you quoted was not implying it. I know because that was me and I know what I implied. @omeomorfismo actually got is completely right, you on the other hand twisted my words. Which is pretty common on this forum so I felt no particular urge to correct you, as people like you have ceased to surprise me.

Obviously you can criticize Christie's work without being an idiot. But there is an immense difference between constructively discussing problems in literature and being a dick to an author, attacking their work whenever possible and on every plattfrom available.

The idiots I was aiming at attribute every last story decision of Warcraft in the last 15 years to Golden, spewing immense amounts of hatred all over the net just because they dislike the story. Sometimes they even claim that things that are canon for years aren't and that Christie just failed to grasp the concepts of a character.
Like those guys in the Sylvanas cult claiming she was actually a decent person up till BFA and it was Golden not understanding and villifying her, while every last bit of of context from years back show her as an evil monster that would drink baby blood if it would keep her alive.

I don't know if you know who you are defending. She says lore is a toxic masculinity herself and only thrall and anduin are decent guys. And then she spreads her toxic feminist on her works. Guess what happened last time, who was carrying Saurfangs body over to orgrimmar? Anduin and Thrall.
If she didn't treat the lore as "toxic masculinity" she would probably write better things.
Tbh not all the lore or new lore is only at her hands but she writes a lot of stuff.
She loves sylvanas and anduin so much she even named her kittens as Sylvanas and Anduin:

https://twitter.com/christiegolden/s...882113?lang=en

PS - I'm not saying for her to be fired, but that she should change her personal views on things on a way that would fit the game itself and not her masculinity toxic insecurities on the game. So ye i'm not criticizing her directly but her work and saying that she should drop off her own personal issues.

It's like maleficent movie, someone decided that men are the worse creature, not men as in humans, but men as in gender, and made maleficent who she is because of a guy. They kind of blew off my favorite villain of all times on that movie.

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I don't think killing her would be very satisfying. Feels too formulaic at this point.

Same, i think just a simple death is not enough. She is used to death right now. But i don't want her to be redeemed either. I would like for her to fail a plan so hard, she would be knocked off almost dying and that she would be stripped of all her powers and turn her beautiful body into a deformed body cursed by something.
See how she feels.

[pfbe]

Dont want her to die
I want her to be in the maw for all of eternity

grinding floors 41~infinity, until she can one-shot the universe.

[huth]

Dont want her to die
I want her to be in the maw for all of eternity

She's bound for the Maw on death anyway, so killing her would probably ensure that is what happens.

[Kumorii]

Want her to be redeemed or become a martyr just for the tears that it will bring.

[Shakana]

I wouldn't mind killing Bwosambi myself. That snarky little shit... always there with his one liners every time I lagged out running through mobs in Nazmir.

“Well look at you! Da mighty hero… ha!”

“What you be doin’ here, mon? It not your time to pass on… yet.”

“Oh, da spirits be with ya now, mon.”

“Tsk, tsk. I did not expect to be seein’ ya here so soon.”

“No, no, no, ya no good to me dead. I be able to return ya to life… for a price.”

“Let me guess… ya got in over ya head?”

“Haha! Now dat was an impressive death!”

“Ah, ya come ta spend some quality time with Bwonsamdi?”

“Oh, poor little thing, ya be needin’ some help from old Bwonsamdi?”
´
If you were ever bad and went to hell i know with what i would be torturing you with

[Rozz]

IDK? If it happens, it happens. My loot is secured either way.

[Kyphael]

“Well look at you! Da mighty hero… ha!”

“What you be doin’ here, mon? It not your time to pass on… yet.”

“Oh, da spirits be with ya now, mon.”

“Tsk, tsk. I did not expect to be seein’ ya here so soon.”

“No, no, no, ya no good to me dead. I be able to return ya to life… for a price.”

“Let me guess… ya got in over ya head?”

“Haha! Now dat was an impressive death!”

“Ah, ya come ta spend some quality time with Bwonsamdi?”

“Oh, poor little thing, ya be needin’ some help from old Bwonsamdi?”
´
If you were ever bad and went to hell i know with what i would be torturing you with

Why bother Bwosambi? You'd be there to torment me. =P

[Shakana]

Why bother Bwosambi? You'd be there to torment me. =P

Ofc, torturing you with bwonsamdi lines on your hell loop