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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    How would that work though? Lilith's coming apparently brings out the worst in the people of sanctuary making the world an even worse place. People also go all cult crazy on her.
    There was a wild-theory on Reddit that supposed that Imperius might be the big bad, in that he closes the gates of heaven in preparation of a war against Sanctuary. Rathma, the person about balance as he is, would feel that he needs to bring back a powerful demon to 'balance' things out. Even if he harbours no love for his mother, he knows Lilith may fight for the sake of humanity if there were any demon who would.

  2. #62
    Having Diablo in every Diablo game simply diminishes his character as the big bad villain. His presence should be kept minimal with various followers, tainted areas and other connections that lead up to him. The genre needs to bring some level of fear back into Diablo villains, D3 felt like some Cartoon Network action show for kids-teens.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  3. #63
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    People are far too cynical.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    There was a wild-theory on Reddit that supposed that Imperius might be the big bad, in that he closes the gates of heaven in preparation of a war against Sanctuary. Rathma, the person about balance as he is, would feel that he needs to bring back a powerful demon to 'balance' things out. Even if he harbours no love for his mother, he knows Lilith may fight for the sake of humanity if there were any demon who would.
    It's not that unlikley. Imperius has always wanted to get rid of humanity, even when we went there and managed to save their collective asses by blaming all of that on us.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    It's not that unlikley. Imperius has always wanted to get rid of humanity, even when we went there and managed to save their collective asses by blaming all of that on us.
    At some point we need to get to the Prophecy of the End of Days after all. Valor shall turn to Wrath. I think Auriel and Itherael will die as well at some point.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    At some point we need to get to the Prophecy of the End of Days after all. Valor shall turn to Wrath. I think Auriel and Itherael will die as well at some point.
    What really sucks is having all this beautiful lore in the books of cain and tyrael, but almost no presence of these characters in the high heavens once you actually get there.

    Sadly we got more Auriel out of Heroes of the Storm than D3.

  7. #67
    Banned KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    At some point we need to get to the Prophecy of the End of Days after all. Valor shall turn to Wrath. I think Auriel and Itherael will die as well at some point.

    Given how the end of Reaper of Souls was, and Imperius' attitudes towards humanity, we could see this happening. There was a very interesting write up on the D3 reddit about the plausible story of D4.


    NOTE: Long read:


    D4 STORY THEORY: Lilith is a red herring


    Now that we know that the pale cultist in the D4 trailer is actually Rathma, I think I've figured out the main bent of D4's story. If my theory is correct, then despite Lilith's prominence as the de-facto main villain of D4, I think that she is actually a red herring and that another character will actually be the main villain. This theory assumes that another theory is true, this theory being that the old man in the D4 gameplay trailer is Lorath Nahr, and that the dead "old friend" whose grave he is at is Tyrael's.

    So, to start with, Rathma summoning Lilith is something that should ordinarily be very lore-breaking. Despite being Lilith's son, Rathma both hates her, and helped seal her away in the ancient past. Furthermore, Rathma was described as being rational, but not cold, and was not portrayed as an evil or sinister figure in the Sin War trilogy. While obviously things can change over thousands of years, and retcons can likewise happen, I believe I have a rational explanation why Rathma would suddenly reverse course and re-summon the mother that he once sealed away.

    After the Sin War, Rathma founded the Priests of Rathma, the necromancers, with their guiding cause being "to protect the balance between Heaven and Hell, because both sides ultimately want the ruin of Sanctuary and humanity, and if either one gained supremacy in the Eternal Conflict they would surely destroy us all."

    Given this, Rathma must have watched in horror as Diablo 3's events came to pass, as D3's story represented the worst-case nightmare scenario that the necromancers were founded to safeguard against. The seven Great Evils joined as one, and were defeated and imprisoned by the Nephalem and his/her friend Tyrael, leading to the greatest triumph on Heaven's part since the start of the Eternal Conflict. Immediately following this, the Archangel of Wisdom took the Black Soulstone and attempted to use it to wipe out humanity, just as the necromancers feared would happen if Heaven ever won a decisive victory against Hell.

    As I stated above, the necromancers serve the balance between Heaven and Hell. In prior times, the angels kept to themselves in Heaven, while the demons marauded through Sanctuary spreading ruin: thus, the necromancers served to push back the demons. However, now the tables have turned. The seven Great Evils have been scattered and weakened by their defeat, while Heaven holds the friendship of the Nephalem, through Tyrael, and is posed to gain the definitive upper hand in the Eternal Conflict. Malthael's assault on humanity has simply proven the justice of the necromancers' cause: just as they had once fought to push demons back from Sanctuary and humanity, now they must do the same to the angels.

    However, allying with any of the Great Evils would likely be a colossal mistake: unlike angels like Tyrael, none of the Great Evils have a vested interest in keeping humanity safe, and none of them are trustworthy. Lilith, however, DOES have a vested interest in protecting humanity, and while she is not trustworthy, Rathma at least knows her intimately and has the measure of her in a way that he wouldn't with any other powerful demon lord. Thus, re-summoning Lilith is starting to look like a good option for protecting Sanctuary from Heaven. Plus, Rathma helped seal Lilith away in the ancient past; once Heaven has been appropriately humbled and Hell has gotten back on its feet, Lilith can safely be betrayed, sealed away once more, and then life can go on as normal (for whatever passes as normal on Sanctuary).

    Meanwhile, in Heaven, the archangel Imperius is faced with a never-before-seen opportunity. He hates humanity and would gladly see Sanctuary destroyed, but Tyrael and Auriel have opposed him at every turn, while Malthael and Itherael abstained from aiding him. Now, however, Malthael and Tyrael are both gone: Malthael having accomplished some of Imperius's goal, while Tyrael impetuously cast off his immortality, became mortal, then died as mortals do. Both are still angels in essence, and will thus be reborn from the Crystal Arch at some point, but that point is likely far off in the future. At the moment, aside from Auriel, Imperius's authority in Heaven is relatively unchallenged. Not only that, the forces of Hell are reeling from the blow of suddenly losing, then regaining, its seven Great Evils. Hell is discombobulated, and Heaven is poised to claim a strong advantage in the Eternal Conflict if it can just seize the moment.

    So Imperius moves to seize it. He consolidates his power and authority in Heaven, overruling Auriel's objections and instating himself as the leader of the Angiris Council. Imperius orders the gates of Heaven closed, in order to build up a massive army of angels and sweep down across Sanctuary and, eventually, Hell. When his army is complete, Imperius will lead a flood of angels out of Heaven, to consume Heaven's enemies in holy light and fire. Humanity will finally be annihilated, its stain on the cosmic balance purified, and after that Imperius can flood into Hell and wipe out the demons once and for all.

    Having seen this coming, Rathma hurries to re-summon Lilith and rebuild her power base. He may hold no love for his mother, but like her or not, she is the best chance for humanity to survive Imperius's assault. And while some humans will no doubt resist her, they will eventually come to see the necessity of her summoning once Imperius's treachery is finally revealed.

    TL;DR: Rathma summoned Lilith to act as humanity's champion against Heaven, who now hold the upper hand in the Eternal Conflict and are poised to wipe out both Hell and humanity. Imperius is the true villain of the game, and has closed Heaven's gates in preparation for a massive angelic invasion of Sanctuary to finally cull humanity, before moving on to annihilate Hell and win the Eternal Conflict once and for all.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comm...a_red_herring/

  8. #68
    I don't mind diablo not appearing at all. I mean if he doesnt fit into the story why show him? diablo is not just diablo. It is the games name. It has a whole universe.
    I would love doing other stuff,except hunting diablo from start to end.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Given how the end of Reaper of Souls was, and Imperius' attitudes towards humanity, we could see this happening. There was a very interesting write up on the D3 reddit about the plausible story of D4.
    - snip-

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comm...a_red_herring/
    Well, it's something i was calling from the very first announcement Because Lilith is a demon and looks bad, doesn't mean it's an enemy. Diablo lore is very much more complicated than that - point is most of it comes from the books where you see the actual faction and goals they have. The games actually don't even scratch the surface of what's really there.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Diablo lore is very much more complicated than that
    If only Metzen understood that, we wouldnt get the garbage Diablo 3 "story".

  11. #71
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    This write-up is based on an interview conducted by AusGamers with Game Director Luis Barriga and Art Director John Mueller. The following is IcyVein's summary of the interview.


    Interesting points:





    Personally I don't mind Diablo himself not being at the forefront of the story, and the fleshing out of new characters and new "big bad guys" refreshing. However, the game is still called "Diablo" and if he isn't doing some sort of shenanigans in the background -- apparent or not -- it wouldn't feel right.


    But I like Diablo's story telling more than WoW's in many regards. The more interviews I read about D4 the more The H Y P E builds.
    Personally I couldn't care less if he's never even mentioned. We know the universe, it's origin, etc. we know Diablo is a part of it even if we don't see him. However I would expect them to bring Diablo for the xpack, which would make a whole lot more sense. It kinda always felt weird that we did the vanilla game to beat him and then he becomes useless with the new content in the xpack. If he comes back in the xpack he becomes the center point, much more than in the vanilla game.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    If only Metzen understood that, we wouldnt get the garbage Diablo 3 "story".
    Diablo's ingame stories have been overrated. Hell, if it weren't for the cinematics team, which is not associated with the Diablo team at the time, we would not have the set up for the dark wanderer of D2. Also Brevik admits they had no clue where they were going with the story for D2 at all until they got cinematics.

    Hell, in general Blizzard's writing has been mediocre at best.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Diablo's ingame stories have been overrated. Hell, if it weren't for the cinematics team, which is not associated with the Diablo team at the time, we would not have the set up for the dark wanderer of D2. Also Brevik admits they had no clue where they were going with the story for D2 at all until they got cinematics.

    Hell, in general Blizzard's writing has been mediocre at best.
    While Diablo story was never something to raise to a pedestal, it at least tried. Both first and second game had a great atmosphere and NPC monologues. Compare with Diablo 3 that had atmosphere bordering on a shitty wow expansion, NPCs included.

  14. #74
    Kind of expected,. they'll want to sell a lot of DLCs / expansions if the game becomes a success.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    While Diablo story was never something to raise to a pedestal, it at least tried. Both first and second game had a great atmosphere and NPC monologues. Compare with Diablo 3 that had atmosphere bordering on a shitty wow expansion, NPCs included.
    I thought the story in D3 was fine. They definitely tried to tell a grander story and incorporate some of the greater lore not known to many. The execution wasn't the greatest, but I thought it tried to do a lot more than the previous 2.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bbr View Post
    Kind of expected,. they'll want to sell a lot of DLCs / expansions if the game becomes a success.
    Maybe, just maybe, the current setting and story has no room for Diablo. Maybe he and the other primes have not yet returned to full form. Personally I'd rather they expand and show us more rather than tread out Diablo once again only to get trounced and be forgotten as expansions come out and introduce new threats.

  16. #76
    I actually like it. Places and enemies that you can't just waltz in to are much, much scarier - including those you can't visit at all but about which there are whispers. It sparks the imagination and, if the description is scary, the feeling of dread, which is exactly what Diablo 4 needs.

    Diablo in D3 wasn't scary precisely because, as the interviewee suggests, you can just run into his room and smash him to pieces - even at level 1.

    I don't mind that he's not in the game right away. It's just not a big deal to me. What matters is that he doesn't become trivial, ever.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    If only Metzen understood that, we wouldnt get the garbage Diablo 3 "story".
    Eh. I think all Diablo games have a pretty basic storyline. You're the hero, here's the big baddie, go kill him. The books instead are really intricate and detailed.

    Hopefully they can use all the things they have to make story better this time, though i am fine with the focus being on the gameplay first.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  18. #78
    In other words: We're gonna milk this cow with 4 separate $60 expansions that all add veeeery little actual new content.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    In other words: We're gonna milk this cow with 4 separate $60 expansions that all add veeeery little actual new content.
    Not really? It doesn't make sense and would only kill the game.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    In other words: We're gonna milk this cow with 4 separate $60 expansions that all add veeeery little actual new content.
    Why would that matter to you? Since apparently you can predict the future, just make millions on the stock market. What's $60 to you.

    Personally, I don't give a shit if Diablo himself is in the game or not. Just some big bad anyway.

    What I DO give a shit about is a good story and a good game. You take care of that, I don't care if we're fighting the avatar of Deckard Cain's infected toenail.

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