Where has the saved development time gone?

[Sangfoudre]

Well, I already explained these things in my previous posts. I merely summarized them again.
snip

You know what, this one is actually way better than your other posts in this thread.
And, as big these changes felt, they were not radical.

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Yeah, sorry, that logic would have worked fine when TBC was announced, maybe even WotLK. But when they fail to deliver six times in a row, the only fools are the people saying "it's just [been announced/alpha/beta]! They'll fix it by release!"

You are a bitter old man asserting your opinion to be the truth.

[Nerovar]

You know what, this one is actually way better than your other posts in this thread.
And, as big these changes felt, they were not radical.

To me, these changes were pretty radical as they completely forcefully changed the way I had to play the game. In all of my WoW career I pretty much only ever played PvP with minor exceptions being Dragon Soul (because Gurthalak was BiS in PvP back then which was horrible) and MoP with the Legendary cloak. Other than that I was completely fine with playing random BGs, arenas, RBG etc. because all I needed was my weekly conquest cap and a bit of gold to pay for enchants/gems.
In Legion I simply couldn't do that anymore. You couldn't really farm your Artifact Weapon through PvP and you couldn't effectively farm gear through PvP. So I started playing PvE content and I hated it. At that time basically all of my PvP friends either quit the game entirely, went to play on private servers or completely switched over to PvE (I know that's an anecdote but just look at the drop in PvP participation and the increase in queue times).

[Sangfoudre]

To me, these changes were pretty radical as they completely forcefully changed the way I had to play the game. In all of my WoW career I pretty much only ever played PvP with minor exceptions being Dragon Soul (because Gurthalak was BiS in PvP back then which was horrible) and MoP with the Legendary cloak. Other than that I was completely fine with playing random BGs, arenas, RBG etc. because all I needed was my weekly conquest cap and a bit of gold to pay for enchants/gems.
In Legion I simply couldn't do that anymore. You couldn't really farm your Artifact Weapon through PvP and you couldn't effectively farm gear through PvP. So I started playing PvE content and I hated it. At that time basically all of my PvP friends either quit the game entirely, went to play on private servers or completely switched over to PvE (I know that's an anecdote but just look at the drop in PvP participation and the increase in queue times).

And I feel you on these points as it seems authentic enough.
You might have felt your daily activities impacted (and/or your tastes changed) but the core of the game did not change (it was designed to be a PvE game)

[Sencha]

More world quests.

[Ealyssa]

This is a straw man. People are asking questions,. which is A-OKay.

not all questions are equal tho. A retarded question will still only be a retarded question. And yours fits nicely in the category.

Nobody asked for your advice or worries, nobody really cares about what you think Shadowland is currently lacking. Not here, not at Blizzard, nowhere. Your input is not needed, nor asked. Wait for the final product, like a coherent adult, and decide to buy or not buy the final product.

Your ranting and hate is litteraly pointless.

[Djaye]

Both have been stated to work very different from what you stated. No details are known yet, but it's not just an endless m+ dungeon, or just another rep grind.

im sorry, but both of these are going to be simply another M+ dungeon and a rep grind.
blizz threw in a bunch of fluff words to throw people off and get them excited for their relabeled content grind.
the only difference is you have to choose your covenant which only limits the available game play options, i.e not a good thing.

[Ielenia]

I'd say "the fact the first patch of the expansion".
Content is staggered over the patches, we could have more races (allied or not) in the .X patches.

Maybe. But it's not guaranteed we'll have "allied races" throughout Shadowlands.

In fact, one big argument against the idea of getting more 'later patch' allied races is the fact that the character creation screen would quickly get bloated if we got new allied races every expansion even at half the race we got them in BfA. In just a few more expansions we'd have to browse pages and pages of 'allied races'.

[Sangfoudre]

Maybe. But it's not guaranteed we'll have "allied races" throughout Shadowlands.

In fact, one big argument against the idea of getting more 'later patch' allied races is the fact that the character creation screen would quickly get bloated if we got new allied races every expansion even at half the race we got them in BfA. In just a few more expansions we'd have to browse pages and pages of 'allied races'.

Some thoughts, maybe AR will become customization, maybe it was a one time thing getting that much.
I *hope* that these AR won't become xpac exclusive (ie if you did not unlock them before XX xpac it's no more feasible) because I'll expect some shit storm happening.

[Nefarious Tea]

Both have been stated to work very different from what you stated. No details are known yet, but it's not just an endless m+ dungeon, or just another rep grind.

Torghast is literally just greater rifts from Diablo 3, except the tileset never changes. Only the mobs.

[Ielenia]

Some thoughts, maybe AR will become customization, maybe it was a one time thing getting that much.
I *hope* that these AR won't become xpac exclusive (ie if you did not unlock them before XX xpac it's no more feasible) because I'll expect some shit storm happening.

Nah, that's not happening. I mean, we're reaching the tail end of BfA and you can still grind the reps from Legion to get HM tauren, LF draenei, VEs and NBs.

[Schattenlied]

Where has the saved development time gone?

Hopefully into things that actually matter, like fixing the absolute wreck that is the game's current class design.

[Kyphael]

It does have gimmicks. Covenants.


They are functioning as a silly mixture of Garrisons, Artifact Weapons, and Order Halls all watered down to sub-optimized brilliance. Class reworks? You mean they will just re-add abilities that were pruned out of the game before.


"Back to class" means certain classes get some of their abilities back across all of their 3 specializations.


You also forgot to mention the incredible amount of time and resources needed to develop new race customizations. No I'm not being sarcastic. The art team always hits winners in their department.

In other words, Shadowlands is cleverly disguised as a patch.

[Soluna]

Torghast is essentially a M+ dungeon, and Covenants are effectively reputations with a different label. I just cannot see where the development resources have gone.

So just because you don't like it, that means that the resources can't have gone there? Are you acting silly or are you that by default?

[Sangfoudre]

Some thoughts, maybe AR will become customization, maybe it was a one time thing getting that much.
I *hope* that these AR won't become xpac exclusive (ie if you did not unlock them before XX xpac it's no more feasible) because I'll expect some shit storm happening.

Not that I care much but when I see people yelling about the brutosaurus ...

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So just because you don't like it, that means that the resources can't have gone there? Are you acting silly or are you that by default?

Bruh, this is MMOC forums, half the people have the skull filled with salt

[Paraka]

Ah another one of those "If you cannot hate what I apparently see, then you are objectively wrong," threads. Never gets old.

But honestly, we cannot see the receipts of this plan thus far. Cutting out tier sets helped the art team build better environments (speculatively), but that doesn't mean the people put on a different hat and help build new system mechanics. And various other examples I see around here.

Honestly, I feel like a lot of their efforts are put in redoing a system that isn't a power grind like AP has been for four years. That mix with Torghast tells me that's where the efforts are focused, cause they spun a good tale about while we will be there day after day.

[jzhbee]

This is a straw man. People are asking questions,. which is A-OKay. Its stupid to wait until after the fact to start complaining and asking questions. How ios this confusing.

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I've been playing this game since it began. I don't think I need someone to explain to me what MMOs are about, or if they are "for" me.

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And even then, people will say " well you don't get the big picture, and don't understand the long term!"

NO one is even saying this game is "shit" in this thread, they are asking questions. I don't get the problem lol

It's okay to ask questions. It's not okay to ask questions based on a faulty premise you're presenting as fact. Saying "obviously they're saving developer time" is not a correct statement, as you have no objective information based on that. Most interviews show that they're earlier into the dev cycle than they usually are when they present the next xpac.
So, yeah, this question itself is the problem.

[Sithalos]

Torghast is essentially a M+ dungeon, and Covenants are effectively reputations with a different label. I just cannot see where the development resources have gone.

Pretty bold statement, considering we have yet to see either system fleshed out yet. But please, continue to spread misinformation about things you know next to nothing about.

[Nefarious Tea]

Come on... I get it's like a hobby to trash WoW on MMO-Champion but at some point you have to take a step back and tone down the hate.
I, for one, am extremely excited about Covenants - they're central to the story, the offer progression, the have a sort of follower system with a tree (Soulbinds), they have abilities and yes, they do have rewards like reps do (mounts and xmogs). But the mounts can be upgraded and you can have other world benefits through your chosen Covenant (something like building your abomination for example).

Nazjatar. The covenants are Nazjatar reps. It's... not hard to see.

Also everything I bolded is pure speculation on your part.

[Redroniksre]

You specified gear progression, not him.

Would you agree that Shadowlands feels - at least at the moment - a lot less like 9.0 and a lot more like 8.4?

I don't remember a patch ever having 8 dungeons and 5 zones. So its 9.0, not 8.4 like salty tears would have you believe.
It is one thing to argue systems, which has theory behind it, before we have tried it. Arguing how little content there is? Nobody know how much there is, we don't know the zone size, we don't know anything about what is in the package, so yes we should be waiting until we can at least play it before giving feedback. It is like someone standing over your shoulder as you write a book, and going "The ending sucks" when you are only on page 15.

But salty people gonna be salty.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

You are a bitter old man asserting your opinion to be the truth.

No, I'm just someone who actually learns from his mistakes.