Where has the saved development time gone?

[Niwes]

I mean...that pretty much is the only answer with the way OP has written his initial post.

But really ofc only into Kotick's and Brack's pockets. Oh yea..and shareholders

yep. mostly into shareholders pockets. and a lot into kotticks and i assume sooomewhat (but, relational, not thaaat much) into bracks.

„we think we want that money, but ... we want that money.“ (to use bracks often quoted famous words in a little mutation).

[Nefarious Tea]

I don't care about their life stories and daily woes or how hard they work. I care about the finished product, doesn't matter if it's a game, a car or a dish at a restaurant. That someone is trying real hard but this field is really stressing him out is not my concern or problem, and shouldn't be anyone's but that person's. Every line of work has a specific culture or environment attached, and people choose to accept it or not no matter if they learned the hard way or did some prior research.

You’ve never worked a day in your life, have you.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

yep. mostly into shareholders pockets. and a lot into kotticks and i assume sooomewhat (but, relational, not thaaat much) into bracks.

„we think we want that money, but ... we want that money.“ (to use bracks often quoted famous words in a little mutation).

This really doesn’t work unless they fired a bunch of devs or cut there pay and we’d have heard of that.

[Unholyground]

Torghast is essentially a M+ dungeon, and Covenants are effectively reputations with a different label. I just cannot see where the development resources have gone.

Buy some Blizzard stocks, then call them up and tell them you want to see what the WoW devs are working on and wish to have a tour of the facility because you are now a partial owner lol.

[smityx]

Shadowlands is launching with fewer dungeons, zones, and less staple content compared to the past. In addition, there will be no new features, races, classes or professions with the expansion.

So the question becomes, where has all the saved development time by not adding these standard expansion features gone to instead? Usually those resources are devoted to expansion gimmicks like Artifacts, Warfronts, Garrisons or other things. But in Shadowlands' case, it has no new gimmicks yet STILL has less staple content.

There will be class reworks, but there are always major class reworks in every expansion, yet these expansions still manage to launch with new features like new classes on top of the reworks. So that is not an excuse either. And with the end game zone being barren with your typical reputation grind (Covenants), it makes you wonder what the questing and zone team have actually been doing with their time.

All in all, it seems like Shadowlands has thinned out the amount of staple expansion content that WoW typically provides, without actually giving anything in return. The only explanation I can think of is that a significant portion of the WoW development team has been moved to D4 (similar to how much of the D3 team moved to WoW in Legion). As a result of this cost cutting for WoW, there is less raw content in Shadowlands.

Saved time = Less development time, developers, etc. needed = More savings/profit to show to the shareholders quarterly.

[Molis]

My uncle is a security guard at Blizzard

They are working on some secret project that is twice as big as WoW.
Are you happy now that you know the truth?

What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Saved development time my ass

[Niwes]

This really doesn’t work unless they fired a bunch of devs or cut there pay and we’d have heard of that.

ehhrm. no.

it seems some ppl have so completely no clue how companies like blizz work. /rolleyes

[huth]

ehhrm. no.

it seems some ppl have so completely no clue how companies like blizz work. /rolleyes

Well, you explain how having a bunch of devs just sit on their ass doing nothing is going to make them more money. Because that's what you're suggesting.

[Beefhammer]

Shadowlands is launching with fewer dungeons, zones, and less staple content compared to the past. In addition, there will be no new features, races, classes or professions with the expansion.

So the question becomes, where has all the saved development time by not adding these standard expansion features gone to instead? Usually those resources are devoted to expansion gimmicks like Artifacts, Warfronts, Garrisons or other things. But in Shadowlands' case, it has no new gimmicks yet STILL has less staple content.

There will be class reworks, but there are always major class reworks in every expansion, yet these expansions still manage to launch with new features like new classes on top of the reworks. So that is not an excuse either. And with the end game zone being barren with your typical reputation grind (Covenants), it makes you wonder what the questing and zone team have actually been doing with their time.

All in all, it seems like Shadowlands has thinned out the amount of staple expansion content that WoW typically provides, without actually giving anything in return. The only explanation I can think of is that a significant portion of the WoW development team has been moved to D4 (similar to how much of the D3 team moved to WoW in Legion). As a result of this cost cutting for WoW, there is less raw content in Shadowlands.

It will have 5 zones and a large city. It is launching with roughly the same amount of content Legion launched with. The biggest difference is that assets are of a much higher quality than previous expansions(this happens every expansion) which takes more resources, including time, to create. It could be argued that most of the increase a while back were artists and not systems devs, and maybe the "hold up" is in getting systems ready. Saying SL is thinned out is your opinion. However, you are choosing to ignore that the Maw and Oribus are zones that will exist.Assuming there is less staple content, 4 leveling dungeons, seems pretty on par for WoW lately, 8 dungeons currently at max level, I'm sure they will add more as time goes on like almost always. We will have questing, raids, pet battles, PvP, factions, WQs, treasures, crafting, transmogs, probably another gold sink. That is already on top of an endless dungeon, covenant building and soul bindings. It seems like there will be plenty to do in addition to anything else that is added later.

I look at it and see plenty. I read your post and thing complaining just to complain despite the evidence in front of you.

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Its been pointed out before, other xpacs didnt bring much new features either.

BFA Features:
- 6 new zones ( 3 per faction to lvl in, other 3 are basically there for war campaign / WQs)
- Islands
- Heart of Azeroth
- Warfronts
- 8 boss starter raid
- 9 dungeons at launch (10th locked behind rep)
- 10 levels

Shadowlands features:
- 10 levels
- 4 new zones + town.
- Level squish / leveling overhaul (yay)
- Targetable legendaries
- de-pruning classes
- 10 boss start raid
- 8 dungeons at launch
- Covenants
- Tower (infinite challenge)

In my eyes, there is still roughly the same amount of content coming.

It's 5 zones. The Maw is a zone. Why do people not understand this? Just because there is no story campaign associated with it does not mean it is an empty zone with nothing but the tower.

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But think about it... what did you like about Order Halls?
For me it's two things, the artifact weapon and the class identity. Both are missing from Covenants. Yes you get two abilities but thats not the same as the weapons. And the theming is really generic, Light - Dark - Nature - Undead. I liked the class halls because it gave a cool class identity feeling. The look was mostly well done and it was cool to see all other players with your class around. Not seeing that in Covenants.
Aside from that they are just a reputation hub like the Pandaria Warcampaign (minus the dailies).

Plus, even if you see it as Order Halls 2.0 it still isn't anything new.



Mostly it has to be new or unique. Otherwise anything is a feature (Hey we have quests in the expansion. Hey we have hunters as a playable class in the expansion. Great features).
And ideally it should be something with gameplay that you spend a lot of time playing. Doing five quests for some WoW VIP is nice but nothing new and maybe takes 2 hours to finish... and thats it for the whole expansion.
I liked the order halls (and i played through all of them) but the quests for them weren't well done or interesting 90% of the time and took like an hour to finish all of them combined (if you exclude the grind quests). Not really a selling point for me.

So then most expansions have been devoid of features. Since most of them contained nothing new or unique from Vanilla.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

ehhrm. no.

it seems some ppl have so completely no clue how companies like blizz work. /rolleyes

So he exactly does it work then? If the devs are still getting paid the same amount and there are still the same amount of devs where exactly are they pulling the money that would have gone to development from.

[Augusta138]

It will have 5 zones and a large city. It is launching with roughly the same amount of content Legion launched with. The biggest difference is that assets are of a much higher quality than previous expansions(this happens every expansion) which takes more resources, including time, to create. It could be argued that most of the increase a while back were artists and not systems devs, and maybe the "hold up" is in getting systems ready. Saying SL is thinned out is your opinion. However, you are choosing to ignore that the Maw and Oribus are zones that will exist.Assuming there is less staple content, 4 leveling dungeons, seems pretty on par for WoW lately, 8 dungeons currently at max level, I'm sure they will add more as time goes on like almost always. We will have questing, raids, pet battles, PvP, factions, WQs, treasures, crafting, transmogs, probably another gold sink. That is already on top of an endless dungeon, covenant building and soul bindings. It seems like there will be plenty to do in addition to anything else that is added later.

I look at it and see plenty. I read your post and thing complaining just to complain despite the evidence in front of you.

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It's 5 zones. The Maw is a zone. Why do people not understand this? Just because there is no story campaign associated with it does not mean it is an empty zone with nothing but the tower.

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So then most expansions have been devoid of features. Since most of them contained nothing new or unique from Vanilla.

About 4 vs 5 zones, when writing the post earlier, i made a typo.

I know it is 5 zones.

It was simply a comparison BFA vs Shadowlands to all the people who whine there is no content in Shadowlands

While in reality it is basically the same amount of content

[Niwes]

Well, you explain how having a bunch of devs just sit on their ass doing nothing is going to make them more money. Because that's what you're suggesting.

no.its not. because your „wow team“ isnt just solely doing NOTHING ELSE when they save investment in wow. yes, blizz has teams. as any other company. that doesnt mean, that a gfx designer or sw developer at blizz is not shifted. and no, they sit not there going „oh game design cutted things, now i can surf the internet.“. thats just hillarious. and yes, they make money by saving investments (effort/time).

but... seriously, i completely loose interest in explaining a business i work since 20 years in, to some 16 years old idiots that have no clue how reality works. so, i dont give a fuck.

if you believe cost effective development makes no sense and streamlining stuff, low investment positioning and cheap carrot on a stick designs are randomly built concepts and a company like blizz do not know how to make most possible profit, or is your best buddy and just wanna make great games lol, well, so do that. keep on with posting here idiotic kiddy shit in your fantasy world and keep on makin yourself looking like a naive idiot, while companies are happy about idiots like you and keep going „put in least possible effort and make out most money with accordingly designed game design, systems, and marketing“. i will not stop you. i. give. a .fuck.

this was my last post on this topic. every second invested here is not worth it.

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So he exactly does it work then? If the devs are still getting paid the same amount and there are still the same amount of devs where exactly are they pulling the money that would have gone to development from.

ever heard from a word called „budget“ ?

you have so totally no clue how the processing and workflow works at bigger companies or even companies at all ?

how old are you ? what jobs you had ? i am just curious ?

[huth]

no.its not. because your „wow team“ isnt just solely doing NOTHING ELSE when they save investment in wow. yes, blizz has teams. as any other company. that doesnt mean, that a gfx designer or sw developer at blizz is not shifted.

True. But we hear about that stuff happening. The only way your claims make sense is if they just sit around doing nothing.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

ever heard from a word called „budget“ ?

you have so totally no clue how the processing and workflow works at bigger companies or even companies at all ?

how old are you ? what jobs you had ? i am just curious ?

The budget Could be effected by moving devs to other projects like they did with say holicka. But if they are keeping the same amount of devs and the devs are getting paid the same amount they aren’t pulling that dev money to put into there own pockets they are moving it to another project.

So no that’s not an answer to the question.

[Eggroll]

Idk, maybe they are wasting their time looking at their "phones"

It seems the new dev team is very inefficient compared to the old one. In quality AND in quantity.

[Yriel]

So then most expansions have been devoid of features. Since most of them contained nothing new or unique from Vanilla.

So you are saying we are still playing Vanilla or what ?

[Beefhammer]

So you are saying we are still playing Vanilla or what ?

Just saying if the stipulation for a feature to be called a feature has to be something new and unique, then vehicles, garrisons, treasures, and artifacts are pretty much the only features ever added.

Heroic and mythic/mythic+ dungeons are just modifications on dungeons.

New classes are just classes.

10/25m raids, flex raiding, LFR, heroic, and mythic raiding are just tweaks to raiding.

New zones and quests are just the same thing as the stuff we already had.

Flying was just mounting up just in the air.

Daily's and WQs are just quests.

So in a sense yeah, if you want to have such a strict definition of what a feature is.

[Lolites]

That's exactly what we heard about BfA. Which probably means they'll have to make new AI to replace actual players by the end of Shadowlands, or else queues will take 2 hours (they already take more than one hour now).

i would say you hear it before every expansion, as its stupid to comment on something you know almost nothing about...

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wotlk literaly had new items and monsters as "feature" in its reveal trailer, if you disregard those things that are in every expansion (zones, monsters, dungeons, items etc.), what we ended up with? new class and barbershop and dance studio which didnt even made it to the game... soo packed with new features right?

[Yriel]

Just saying if the stipulation for a feature to be called a feature has to be something new and unique, then vehicles, garrisons, treasures, and artifacts are pretty much the only features ever added.

Heroic and mythic/mythic+ dungeons are just modifications on dungeons.

New classes are just classes.

10/25m raids, flex raiding, LFR, heroic, and mythic raiding are just tweaks to raiding.

New zones and quests are just the same thing as the stuff we already had.

Flying was just mounting up just in the air.

Daily's and WQs are just quests.

So in a sense yeah, if you want to have such a strict definition of what a feature is.

Yes and if you want to abstract it even more you can say to everything "X is just questing but different" (raiding is just questing, but harder) and so there aren't any other elements in WoW than questing.
But that is stupid, sorry.

LFG and LFR were big features, same as flying, Arena, daily hubs with a progressing story like firelands, scenarios, warfronts, phasing, this roguelike tower and so on. All stuff that wasn't there before and that changed gameplay. Some more, some less, some were considered bad, some good.

Yes i know you can argue that i contradict my argument that covenants are just pruned generic order halls but i guess it's a personal decision. And i really don't see anything new in covenants.

[Beefhammer]

Yes and if you want to abstract it even more you can say to everything "X is just questing but different" (raiding is just questing, but harder) and so there aren't any other elements in WoW than questing.
But that is stupid, sorry.

LFG and LFR were big features, same as flying, Arena, daily hubs with a progressing story like firelands, scenarios, warfronts, phasing, this roguelike tower and so on. All stuff that wasn't there before and that changed gameplay. Some more, some less, some were considered bad, some good.

Yes i know you can argue that i contradict my argument that covenants are just pruned generic order halls but i guess it's a personal decision. And i really don't see anything new in covenants.

I understand. I just default to what the trailer or box says. If Blizzard says new zones, covenants, endless dungeon, 8 dungeons, a raid, new race customizations, and such are features, then they are.