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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire JacobusRex's Avatar
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    I gotta say, I'm not very impressed

    While the Shadowlands look fantastic, it's still just another continent with "current content" rather than Hazzikostas directing the team to be creative, innovative, and adventurous. With an entire realm of deathly powers seeping into Azeroth's sky over Northrend, you're telling me that the face of Azeroth never changes? After the Legion invaded, the world would have been scarred from Fel and battle. After the world was at war, Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms would have been littered with wartime scars. Though they were "smart" to make the "Visions of N'zoth" just a pocket dimention thing, it shows they're copping out of doing something cool with Azeroth. The Black Empire could have been a whole expansion with the full-on rise of N'zoth and his legions of followers...

    Point is, when are they going to make the world relevant again? When are they going to do something to bring WoW into the modern age of MMO's. The other MMO's out there aren't as popular but that's because no one is as attached to their character as they are with their WoW mains, but they've been doing stuff that makes WoW seem like a game of Checkers.

    Real time world events that actually benefit the faction being attacked IF they can manage to win, or be a detriment if they fail. Strategic objectives like Azerite eruptions, loose Anima winds and land grabs that make natural PVP objectives and a reason to turn on Warmode besides goddamn xp. Maybe a randomly timed N'zoth incursion into Uldum, Ulduar, Uldir, and other Ul's that can possibly see the return of the Black Empire if they go neglected.

    There's so much they could do to make the world relevant again. Heck, even more casual things like the discovery of a new mine which is like an open-world mini dungeon filled with Kobolds, Elementals and other nefarious creatures. Maybe there's a random lifebloom where herbs erupt into being, attacked by Satyrs and other Nightmare creatures trying to corrupt it... Why are we trapped in the "current content" bubble which in itself gets boring after a week or two?

  2. #2
    Yeah, traveling across 9 continents to get to random event (which would give what exactly?) would be sooooo fun. And when WHOLE world was 'relevant' again?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    Snip
    You mean like how they changed Stromgarde and Broken Shore? Or how they'll affect Uldum and the Vale of Eternal Blossoms (also hints of other areas being affected while we're focused on those)? They're probably keeping most of their stuff tight to their chest because they've been burned several times for revealing something they're working on too early (Farahlon, faction hubs in WoD) and would prefer to tell us more once they're positive something will make it in.

    Warfronts were generally well received, from what I've read, so I would think they'd keep something like them going forward, if not exactly the same. Updating zones visibly as we interact with them and telling us of what's happening in others similar to the lore quests we get from Isles (I just finished the mantid quest talking about the new queen and the early swarm).

  4. #4
    I remember the same topics about mists back in the day. History repeats itself.

  5. #5
    Disagree about everything. WoW is the best game out there, not just because of your character, rather you like or not the expansions or systems ingame. This game have a soul in it, always wil, doesn't matter how boring the gameplay is, how story is going, it's legacy and how it's done, it's unique, and many games tries to copy this game. And none has such a powerful lore. Not even Skyrim comes close to wow.

    Blizzard accomplished something unique. Because cosmetics and brand new century stuff are on other games, doesn't mean that wow needs to be the same.

    Only think that they should do more of "go back in time" kind of thing. Around azeroth, not just when a zone was destroyed like undercity and silithus, so on.

    I think if we defeat something, it should still be there, but in a "past" way. Masters of time, could take us back or let us enjoy the world without it.
    Now, dungeons and raids, they still need to exist, so no point in wanting this.

    Also how boring would be if everything was taken away? New players may want to experience it.

    I don't want wow to come to "Modern MMO".

    I just want systems to be different.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-12-02 at 03:00 PM.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Yeah, traveling across 9 continents to get to random event (which would give what exactly?) would be sooooo fun. And when WHOLE world was 'relevant' again?
    I think that lowkey identifies one of the big problem of WoW. ^

    The gameplay itself is bad, so when there's stuff to do we don't even care about doing it or not, we need a reward otherwise it's "not worth our time".
    All these things should be fun to do even if we get zero reward from it, but since the game itself is not fun enough to play, we get bored without a carrot.

    I think that before being adventurous with content, the core gameplay should be entirely reworked (almost in a WoW 2 scale) like completely new combat system and enemies that actually do stuff, remove any form of automatic dmg from players and enemies, everything in the form of active skills with physics, avoidable stuff instead of tab targetting homing missile bullshit, etc.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    Real time world events that actually benefit the faction being attacked IF they can manage to win, or be a detriment if they fail. Strategic objectives like Azerite eruptions, loose Anima winds and land grabs that make natural PVP objectives and a reason to turn on Warmode besides goddamn xp.
    No thanks in a world of horrendous faction imbalance, server imbalance, and the best thing about warmode being the ability to turn it off. There are gajillion other MMOs where the only reason to be in the world is to gank other players, and good wow is focusing on something else, wpvp is just an afterthought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Yeah, traveling across 9 continents to get to random event (which would give what exactly?) would be sooooo fun.
    Also this. It already feels there's more travelling than fighting in every first half of expansion when flying isn't implemented yet, and that's only when we have a handful of zones to traverse, not the whole world.

    Also I'd rather see new continent / island / planet / phase / plane of existence than rehashing the same old zones over and again. Cataclysm world revamp came at a high price of having barely any end game outside of raiding, and the questing revamp while making it more efficient, removed any element of exploration because every zone became a linear on rails experience. And too many of the new / reworked zones are just a ravaged mess for the sake of adding extra dramatic element.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    I think that lowkey identifies one of the big problem of WoW. ^

    The gameplay itself is bad, so when there's stuff to do we don't even care about doing it or not, we need a reward otherwise it's "not worth our time".
    All these things should be fun to do even if we get zero reward from it, but since the game itself is not fun enough to play, we get bored without a carrot.

    I think that before being adventurous with content, the core gameplay should be entirely reworked (almost in a WoW 2 scale) like completely new combat system and enemies that actually do stuff, remove any form of automatic dmg from players and enemies, everything in the form of active skills with physics, avoidable stuff instead of tab targetting homing missile bullshit, etc.
    It's not 'WoW problem', it's just MMO format. Progression - no matter if it's character power, hunting cosmetics, climbing PVP ladder or killing hard boss - is core part of fun. Even fun content will be ignored if after completion your character or group won't move an inch.

  9. #9
    Last time; they literally put half an expansions worth of effort to make the world relevant again. What happened? Nearly a decade later and the majority of the player base is still bitching about it. So I wouldn't get your hopes up
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    Real time world events that actually benefit the faction being attacked IF they can manage to win, or be a detriment if they fail. Strategic objectives like Azerite eruptions, loose Anima winds and land grabs that make natural PVP objectives and a reason to turn on Warmode besides goddamn xp.
    You know BGs exist right? In fact, this is WHY they exist, because if every BG was just an open-world zone with the same (or similar) objectives, there'd be constant complaining about how imbalanced it is because of <insert reason>. World PvP is inherently imbalanced because there are so many factors out of your control, group size just being one of many. Would you really want meaningful outdoor objectives be crushed by one-sided gankfests because one faction just happened to get a 100-man raid going and the other side only had 20 people? Which is exactly what happens in WM, even with the supposed balancing feature it contains.

    WoW PvP is too complex to allow for as many random factors as world PvP comes with. It will never be balanced or free from frustration because of it. Any serious PvP will have to remain confined to controlled environments like BGs, or at best to PvP zones like Wintergrasp, Ashran, etc. (which also had their share of problems). And that's only more pronounced with the persistent design intent to interconnect PvE and PvP that Blizzard seems to be unwilling to ever let go of.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Last time; they literally put half an expansions worth of effort to make the world relevant again. What happened? Nearly a decade later and the majority of the player base is still bitching about it. So I wouldn't get your hopes up
    Sums it up nicely. Many players are resentful of sweeping changes to the in game world they've gotten used to, most are ambivalent, and a few want things to change constantly. It's just not worth the effort in the end, and those resources are better used elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  12. #12
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    One of the issues is Blizzard never does these things in a real time manner. You mentioned a realm of deathly powers seeping into Azeroth and Azeroth itself never changing, it's possible it does. It's just Blizzard will use that as a connection to the next expansion, or some content patch.

    When Cataclysm happened I remember them saying from a story perspective, we left Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and were in Northrend dealing with the Lich King for many many years (I believe it was like 10-20 years story wise, I may be wrong), during that time the Cataclysm had happened and when we returned after defeating the Lich King, we returned to a post Cataclysm world.

    Blizzard like to do things like that. It's the nature of how MoP came about. Pandaria as a continent was unmasked from the cloud covering it, by the Cataclysm, we just didn't know until several years later because we were dealing with the threats of the Cataclysm in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms.

    It's unfortunate because I agree it makes sense that events that happen should have more immediate affects felt in game. Where in this case like you say, the giant rift open above Northrend should likely be doing something to Azeroth. That said if it is, it's likely not something we see until a major content patch, or the next expansion.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    One of the issues is Blizzard never does these things in a real time manner. You mentioned a realm of deathly powers seeping into Azeroth and Azeroth itself never changing, it's possible it does. It's just Blizzard will use that as a connection to the next expansion, or some content patch.

    When Cataclysm happened I remember them saying from a story perspective, we left Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and were in Northrend dealing with the Lich King for many many years (I believe it was like 10-20 years story wise, I may be wrong), during that time the Cataclysm had happened and when we returned after defeating the Lich King, we returned to a post Cataclysm world.

    Blizzard like to do things like that. It's the nature of how MoP came about. Pandaria as a continent was unmasked from the cloud covering it, by the Cataclysm, we just didn't know until several years later because we were dealing with the threats of the Cataclysm in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms.

    It's unfortunate because I agree it makes sense that events that happen should have more immediate affects felt in game. Where in this case like you say, the giant rift open above Northrend should likely be doing something to Azeroth. That said if it is, it's likely not something we see until a major content patch, or the next expansion.
    I think we get a reasonable level of updates.

    When Legion was around the corner we got the Legion pre-patch where all the zones were invaded and we got a real sense of the world being in peril, after that we moved to the Broken isles were most of the story happened afterwards, with the implication that all the other zones were still being invaded.
    For Shadowlands the same thing will happen, the pre-patch will show up, and we will get a feel for what is actually happening when the Shadowlands is invading and the Scourge is set loose, then we will go to the Shadowlands and whatever is happening in Azeroth will likely still be implied as happening, but we will be trying to remove the problem at its root instead of going back to Azeroth constantly because a random farmer in Mulgore is being attacked.


    Also, just for reference, each expansion takes place roughly in real time, maybe a tiny bit less.
    From the time the Legion invaded to when we returned from Argus was about 18-24 months, same with WotLK and returning to see the Cataclysm.
    Last edited by Sondrelk; 2019-12-02 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Doublepost

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Last time; they literally put half an expansions worth of effort to make the world relevant again. What happened? Nearly a decade later and the majority of the player base is still bitching about it. So I wouldn't get your hopes up
    Not fair. They only revamped old world for leveling purposes. It could be a whole different story if they revamped old world for level cap content.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Last time; they literally put half an expansions worth of effort to make the world relevant again. What happened? Nearly a decade later and the majority of the player base is still bitching about it. So I wouldn't get your hopes up
    Except that isn't just what they did, they also added stupid 'this is happening' 'events' that have lasted for years and years despite the fact that they should have stopped or been fixed a long time ago.

    The world has been in a constant state of stupidity in many zones since the cataclysm happened. Why are there still tornadoes in Westfall? Wtf is with the random whirlpools in Darkshore and STV?

    I'm not saying they 'ruined' all zones, many zones are better, but many are worse too. The old STV is better, where it isn't split into two for zero reason. The old Westfall is better, where there hasn't been a tornado for 9 fucking years.
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  16. #16
    Brewmaster CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    It's not 'WoW problem', it's just MMO format. Progression - no matter if it's character power, hunting cosmetics, climbing PVP ladder or killing hard boss - is core part of fun. Even fun content will be ignored if after completion your character or group won't move an inch.
    Part of this "MMO format" includes "it's fine if the game sucks, people find their fun in rewards instead of gameplay". It's time to abandon that model and make something fun to play first. Just because the game gives a lot of reward and is online it doesn't mean it should have extremely simplistic and outdated gameplay.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    One of the issues is Blizzard never does these things in a real time manner. You mentioned a realm of deathly powers seeping into Azeroth and Azeroth itself never changing, it's possible it does. It's just Blizzard will use that as a connection to the next expansion, or some content patch.

    When Cataclysm happened I remember them saying from a story perspective, we left Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and were in Northrend dealing with the Lich King for many many years (I believe it was like 10-20 years story wise, I may be wrong), during that time the Cataclysm had happened and when we returned after defeating the Lich King, we returned to a post Cataclysm world.

    Blizzard like to do things like that. It's the nature of how MoP came about. Pandaria as a continent was unmasked from the cloud covering it, by the Cataclysm, we just didn't know until several years later because we were dealing with the threats of the Cataclysm in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms.

    It's unfortunate because I agree it makes sense that events that happen should have more immediate affects felt in game. Where in this case like you say, the giant rift open above Northrend should likely be doing something to Azeroth. That said if it is, it's likely not something we see until a major content patch, or the next expansion.
    That's not quite how the cataclysm happened. There was about five years between vanilla and the start of Cataclysm, we weren't in Northrend itself for more than a couple years at most. That much time just hasn't passed in the setting. There were also cataclysm pre events that had us back in EK/Kalimdor such as the cult stuff going on in SW/Orgrimmar. And in the quests post Cataclysm the cataclysm is still presented as a recent thing the world is still reeling from.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Popastique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    Strategic objectives like Azerite eruptions, loose Anima winds and land grabs that make natural PVP objectives and a reason to turn on Warmode besides goddamn xp
    Forcing PVP, no thank you.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    While the Shadowlands look fantastic, it's still just another continent with "current content" rather than Hazzikostas directing the team to be creative, innovative, and adventurous. With an entire realm of deathly powers seeping into Azeroth's sky over Northrend, you're telling me that the face of Azeroth never changes? After the Legion invaded, the world would have been scarred from Fel and battle. After the world was at war, Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms would have been littered with wartime scars. Though they were "smart" to make the "Visions of N'zoth" just a pocket dimention thing, it shows they're copping out of doing something cool with Azeroth. The Black Empire could have been a whole expansion with the full-on rise of N'zoth and his legions of followers...
    I agree with you competely. There is so much than can be done to WoW, so many intetesting and engaging things.

    But all those require passion, and as long as WoW is just a cash-grab for ActivisionBlizzard, they are fine with doing just enough so people would keep paying subscription money and that's it, I'm afraid.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    the core gameplay should be entirely reworked (almost in a WoW 2 scale) like completely new combat system and enemies that actually do stuff, remove any form of automatic dmg from players and enemies, everything in the form of active skills with physics, avoidable stuff instead of tab targetting homing missile bullshit, etc.
    "Action combat" is probably the most overrated and overused gameplay theme, everything from shooter to platformer to action RPG to MMO can be summed as "dodge stuff and land your skill shots", I definitely don't need another clone of that paradigm.

    Wow still has the "auto aim" element but for example raiding and dungeon encounters went too far into "action RPG" territory where classes have simplistic rotations that don't require thinking, but everything and the kitchen sink is thrown at you so 90% of your attention span has to be dedicated to dodging stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    All these things should be fun to do even if we get zero reward from it, but since the game itself is not fun enough to play, we get bored without a carrot.
    Every game has a carrot, either obvious or hidden, especially games that are designed to be played for years, and not just once and then shelved. There's a whole team of specialists in every developer's studio planning how to make their game the most addictive thing without breaking laws and getting into trouble, while maximizing profit. Devil May Cry has more flashy combat than WOW but is mostly played once until the next installment, while WOW needs constant active playerbase to function.

    Anyway if action combat and dynamic world events were the golden pill for all the problems of MMOs then Guild Wars 2 would be beating WOW by miles in playerbase, and while it's doing fine, it's not doing crazy breathtaking especially counting the fact it's f2p to start, so it already has the accessibility advantage.

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