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  1. #221
    Hands down the best female-led Superhero movie so far. 8/10, it had all of the MCU formula, the butt-shots of ScarJo were a bit obvious but hey, I ain't complaining. She's made me question my sexuality plenty of times... :d

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I doubt fox-marvel count..as its not canon now anyways perhaps..
    Phase 4 seems to be all about making every Marvel-based movie ever canon.

  3. #223
    I was surprised how good the movie was! After reading here I was expecting trash... I mean its no Ragnarok but its certainly better than Captain Marvel. I really like Natasha's sister and look forward to seeing what they do with her.


    Julia Louis-Dreyfus was fantastic as always.

    The only gripe I have is with Taskmaster. I thought they did a good job with his/her powers and I enjoyed the fights but I like the character from the comics.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Marvel movies range from Logan to Deadpool.
    Okay, that's fair. I guess in my mind I think Marvel = MCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Hands down the best female-led Superhero movie so far. 8/10, it had all of the MCU formula, the butt-shots of ScarJo were a bit obvious but hey, I ain't complaining. She's made me question my sexuality plenty of times... :d
    Other than the sexuality questioning part I agree with this.

    A friend made an interesting observation: You get butt shots of ScarJo but nothing like that with Pugh, and even her close wasn't as skin tight as ScarJo's.

    I've read a few reviews that pointed out how the MCU kind of did Black Widow dirty, and this disparity between ScarJo and Pugh in this film seems to suggest they never really figured out how best to course correct other than simply introduce a new character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I was surprised how good the movie was! After reading here I was expecting trash... I mean its no Ragnarok but its certainly better than Captain Marvel. I really like Natasha's sister and look forward to seeing what they do with her.


    Julia Louis-Dreyfus was fantastic as always.

    The only gripe I have is with Taskmaster. I thought they did a good job with his/her powers and I enjoyed the fights but I like the character from the comics.
    Yeah Pugh was an absolute homerun for me. I went in expecting to hate the character, but ended up absolutely loving Yelena. I hope we see a lot more of her in future MCU content.

    Taskmaster... I like the comics version, but I have to admit I ended up really liking how the handled Taskmaster in this movie. I watched a Nando v Movies short about Taskmaster that was pretty interesting and you might appreciate it. Effectively, he points out that because of how they did Taskmaster, there's nothing stopping them from introducing another iteration of the character.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post

    A friend made an interesting observation: You get butt shots of ScarJo but nothing like that with Pugh, and even her close wasn't as skin tight as ScarJo's.

    I've read a few reviews that pointed out how the MCU kind of did Black Widow dirty, and this disparity between ScarJo and Pugh in this film seems to suggest they never really figured out how best to course correct other than simply introduce a new character.
    I also noticed her clothes were baggier! I thought it was odd but assumed she was just wearing Natasha's outfit so it wouldn't be a perfect fit.

  6. #226
    7/10 Black Widow.

    A solid movie with some great action and humor. Well casted for the roles and it felt like it fit well into the timeline. It's not a top 5 MCU movie for me but maybe in the top 10. Maybe...

    My grips of course was the underused Taskmaster combined with the useless need to turn the comic character female. The character did little for the movie so either sex makes little difference. Completely underused for the type of power level these characters have. The character should have been so much more. As a Taskmaster fan in the comics, it was a big disappointment to see that character go down the tubes. There is hope for a future showing given the end but I'm doubting it still.

    Another issue I had was not showing what happened when General Ross showed up. Would have liked to have seen that conversation for the conclusion and how it might have tied into Infinity War given it's supposed to be right after Civil War. Minor grip but something just dropped.
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  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    A friend made an interesting observation: You get butt shots of ScarJo but nothing like that with Pugh, and even her close wasn't as skin tight as ScarJo's.
    Might have been Scarlet's decision. She was listed as an "executive producer".

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    My grips of course was the underused Taskmaster combined with the useless need to turn the comic character female. The character did little for the movie so either sex makes little difference. Completely underused for the type of power level these characters have. The character should have been so much more. As a Taskmaster fan in the comics, it was a big disappointment to see that character go down the tubes. There is hope for a future showing given the end but I'm doubting it still.
    Couldn't disagree more. The identity behind Taskmaster was a GREAT move for this movie because it tied Taskmaster so viscerally to Natasha and completely changed the dynamic of their fight in Act 3.

    It's also worth considering that everything that made Taskmaster, er, Taskmaster, was a chip and a HUD. I.e. someone could easily pick up the helmet from the wreckage and become the next Taskmaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Another issue I had was not showing what happened when General Ross showed up. Would have liked to have seen that conversation for the conclusion and how it might have tied into Infinity War given it's supposed to be right after Civil War. Minor grip but something just dropped.
    100% agree with this. Super weird to have done this not just completely off screen but also not even drop a single sentence about it at all.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    Couldn't disagree more. The identity behind Taskmaster was a GREAT move for this movie because it tied Taskmaster so viscerally to Natasha and completely changed the dynamic of their fight in Act 3.

    It's also worth considering that everything that made Taskmaster, er, Taskmaster, was a chip and a HUD. I.e. someone could easily pick up the helmet from the wreckage and become the next Taskmaster.



    100% agree with this. Super weird to have done this not just completely off screen but also not even drop a single sentence about it at all.
    I think part of the issue with Taskmaster is that the concept didn't translate very well on film. I'm not sure how it could, unless the audience is extremely keyed into fighting styles. Basically it only worked when they hammered it in with the equipment she used, and even then it was like "it used a bow like Hawkeye... cool?" Maybe it would have worked better if she were fighting against more Avengers so you see how she can stymie them all or something, I dunno. Agreed though that her identity was an excellent narrative decision, it lent some needed weight to the ending.

    I overall enjoyed it, especially the first 2/3rds of it. The film touched me more than I thought it would, and the new Black Widow was charming as hell. Those schlockfest endings are too long and drawn out for me, it feels weird being bored watching people run away from explosions and perform death-defying leaps but here we are.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    It's also worth considering that everything that made Taskmaster, er, Taskmaster, was a chip and a HUD. I.e. someone could easily pick up the helmet from the wreckage and become the next Taskmaster.
    No. Taskmaster was a perfect mimic because the character has "photographic reflexes."


  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    My grips of course was the underused Taskmaster combined with the useless need to turn the comic character female. The character did little for the movie so either sex makes little difference. Completely underused for the type of power level these characters have. The character should have been so much more. As a Taskmaster fan in the comics, it was a big disappointment to see that character go down the tubes. There is hope for a future showing given the end but I'm doubting it still.
    I agree with "underused", but I'd say tying the character to Dreykov's daughter (a reference dropped way back in the first Avengers movie) worked well. This movie was entirely about Natasha coming to grips with her past, so taking the time to introduce Tony Masters just doesn't really make sense. Especially if they're not really planning on using the character again any time soon.

    I get it. It's no fun seeing one of your favorite characters get relegated to what is essentially a cameo in the grand scheme of things. No matter how extensive the MCU gets, you're still going to have plenty of characters that might have had more presence in the comics, but on the screen they're updated/trimmed/changed specifically to facilitate the story of the ACTUAL main characters. That's what happened to Taskmaster. So while you might have wished for a more comics accurate approach, from the perspective of this being a final Black Widow centered movie the screen character suited it just fine.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    This reads a lot like you think armor has to have boobs on it for the character inside the armor to be female.
    No, it's literally a male wearing the costume, Andy Lister. Women have different hip structure and move differently.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    I think part of the issue with Taskmaster is that the concept didn't translate very well on film. I'm not sure how it could, unless the audience is extremely keyed into fighting styles. Basically it only worked when they hammered it in with the equipment she used, and even then it was like "it used a bow like Hawkeye... cool?" Maybe it would have worked better if she were fighting against more Avengers so you see how she can stymie them all or something, I dunno. Agreed though that her identity was an excellent narrative decision, it lent some needed weight to the ending.
    See, I thought the bridge fight showed Taskmaster's "superpower" really well, but it was less obvious in future scenes. But I am curious what someone who doesn't know the comics would think of Taskmaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    No. Taskmaster was a perfect mimic because the character has "photographic reflexes."
    Thanks for the mansplain?

    I'm specifically talking about what the movie presented us with, not the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    No, it's literally a male wearing the costume, Andy Lister. Women have different hip structure and move differently.
    Lister is the stunt double. While that does mean you are technically correct about a male wearing the costume, you are pushing it a tad to be confused like "was the character supposed to be trans??"

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    I'm specifically talking about what the movie presented us with, not the comics.
    A female version of Taskmaster named Antonia Dreykov appears in the live-action Marvel Cinematic Universe film Black Widow (2021), portrayed by Olga Kurylenko. This version is the daughter of General Dreykov who completes missions for the Red Room.

    So? A woman with the same "photographic reflexes." What's your point?

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    A female version of Taskmaster named Antonia Dreykov appears in the live-action Marvel Cinematic Universe film Black Widow (2021), portrayed by Olga Kurylenko. This version is the daughter of General Dreykov who completes missions for the Red Room.

    So? A woman with the same "photographic reflexes." What's your point?
    Uses an AI chip in her brain to copy the 'reflexes and fighting styles'... much less cool.

    My biggest gripes about the movie:

    The movie should have been structured a bit differently. The Red Room should have been run by; and the Widows being trained by Taskmaster. The unfinished business was taking down an international network of spies/assassins. Dreykov still could have been the puppet master controlling everything even Taskmaster... but that should have been a reveal in the end. Taskmaster trained armies in the comics it would have added a little nod to the fans and given Taskmaster some agency. Being Dreykov's daughter felt predictable... having an AI inside her brain to control her fighting styles felt watered down... almost a call back to Stark's tech in Civil War... which this movie leaned a little too heavily on.

    Overall I'd give it 6/10... better than average but not much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Uses an AI chip in her brain to copy the 'reflexes and fighting styles'... much less cool. .
    Nah...chip explained here Not one word about her mimicry.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Nah...chip explained here Not one word about her mimicry.
    At the beginning of the movie they say something about the 'Taskmaster protocol' and then show one of the Widows uploading something onto said chip. Antonia herself is never called the Taskmaster, afair, it is a 'protocol'.


    They explained all of the Red Room's stuff as stolen technology from other experiments, further developed by the Red Room scientists, like the mindcontrol was taken from Shield/Hydra and their Winter Soldier experiments and then refined by Melina (btw I thought it looked awfully like there was some magic involved and it wasn't purely biological), what if there is an actual Taskmaster running around and they mimiced his ability by technology, maybe with the help of some stolen Stark Tech, and made that into their 'protocol'?

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Nah...chip explained here Not one word about her mimicry.
    She has 0 powers in the movie.

    She got blown up
    They added an AI chip in her brain and a HUD to copy fighting styles specifically to make her into a weapon.

  19. #239
    At this point I really think we should just accept the fact that villains in the MCU are gonna suck...and hard.

    And I know comic readers are gonna have a hard time accepting that because comics are filled with awesome villains that define the heroes they oppose as much as the heroes themselves. There's not FF without Doom...there's no X-Men without Magneto...there's no Spidey without the Green Goblin. The clash with their nemesis over the decades have forged their characters as much as their own actions.

    Yeah some honorable exceptions ( not much: if you ask me Loki ,Zemo and Killmonger) and I'm not saying they always fail , no, they usually just fulfill its function and that's all: no "this villain is awesome , I would like to see more of him"-

    Vulture as an example.Is there something wrong with the character? the aesthetic? The actor? No, not really, everything fits. Everything it's ok and the problem is comic reader expects more than "Ok" for the villains.

    We are not gonna see that in the MCU. The low-profile is completely intentional because Marvel Studios don't want the villains to steal protagonism from the star that is the hero. They just don't want the villain shine so much you can't see the hero's light.

    So yeah guys...it's time to accept it: Villains sucks and will suck in the short term with no foreseeable change ( does anyone expect much of the "Mandarin" or Druig?)

    So pray our Lord and savior Doom invert this philosophy because deep down we all know that if Doom suck there's no redemption: every single villain will be just a mean for the hero's brilliance.

    Edit: Oh I actually forgot the reason I was posting LOL.

    I was completely sceptic about Florence Pugh. My mistake. She's the perfect White Widow and the best ( non comical) of the movie.
    Last edited by PrimiOne; 2021-07-13 at 04:50 PM.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    A female version of Taskmaster named Antonia Dreykov appears in the live-action Marvel Cinematic Universe film Black Widow (2021), portrayed by Olga Kurylenko. This version is the daughter of General Dreykov who completes missions for the Red Room.

    So? A woman with the same "photographic reflexes." What's your point?
    What's MY point? Did you even read what I wrote before your original response?

    Or is your argument that unless another iteration of Taskmaster is introduced in the MCU has literal photographic reflexes listed as his super power and doesn't use the tech, it's not Taskmaster?

    So was the Maguire Spider-Man not Spider-Man because he produced webbing rather than invented the tech to do it?

    I mean, if you want to be that much of a purist, that's cool I guess, but let's not act like your take is the only right one.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimiOne View Post
    At this point I really think we should just accept the fact that villains in the MCU are gonna suck...and hard.

    And I know comic readers are gonna have a hard time accepting that because comics are filled with awesome villains that define the heroes they oppose as much as the heroes themselves. There's not FF without Doom...there's no X-Men without Magneto...there's no Spidey without the Green Goblin. The clash with their nemesis over the decades have forged their characters as much as their own actions.

    Yeah some honorable exceptions ( not much: if you ask me Loki ,Zemo and Killmonger) and I'm not saying they always fail , no, they usually just fulfill its function and that's all: no "this villain is awesome , I would like to see more of him"-

    Vulture as an example.Is there something wrong with the character? the aesthetic? The actor? No, not really, everything fits. Everything it's ok and the problem is comic reader expects more than "Ok" for the villains.

    We are not gonna see that in the MCU. The low-profile is completely intentional because Marvel Studios don't want the villains to steal protagonism from the star that is the hero. They just don't want the villain shine so much you can't see the hero's light.

    So yeah guys...it's time to accept it: Villains sucks and will suck in the short term with no foreseeable change ( does anyone expect much of the "Mandarin" or Druig?)

    So pray our Lord and savior Doom invert this philosophy because deep down we all know that if Doom suck there's no redemption: every single villain will be just a mean for the hero's brilliance.

    Edit: Oh I actually forgot the reason I was posting LOL.

    I was completely sceptic about Florence Pugh. My mistake. She's the perfect White Widow and the best ( non comical) of the movie.
    I dunno, I thought Vulture was excellent. And I am also a comic reader.

    You thought Thanos sucked?

    Taskmaster pretty good, Dreykov sucked.

    Ego was... fine. He didn't suck but he wasn't great either.

    It all comes down to personal opinion though, so no need for everyone to accept your conclusion

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