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  1. #1

    BWL Loot Discussion / Contested Items

    Sensible loot distribution hinges so much on what's available in other locations, which is difficult to know for people that haven't played private servers much.

    I did not raid in BWL so any insight in to what the hotly contested items are is appreciated. Also any items that are BiS-forever are helpful. This list is not perfect and the recommendations not totally accurate, but it's a good start.

    Edit: Here's the weapons. Current questions about a few specific items are in post 10.

    1H:
    Dragonfang Blade 1.8 dagger 16 agi 13 stam https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19346/dragonfang-blade
    Chromatically Tempered Sword 2.6 14 str 14 agi 7 stam https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...tempered-sword
    Crul'shorukh, Edge of Chaos 2.3 ax 36 AP 13 stam https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...-edge-of-chaos
    Claw of the Black Drake 2.6 MH fist 13 str 7 stam 1% crit https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...he-black-drake
    Doom's Edge 2.3 ax 16 agi 9 str 7 stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19362

    Claw of Chromaggus Dagger 17 int 7 stam 64 spellpower 4 MP 5 https://classicdb.ch/?item=19347
    Lok'amir il Romathis (mace) 18 int 10 stam 8 spirit 84 healing https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...ir-il-romathis

    Maladath Runed Blade of the Black Flight +4 swords 1% parry https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...e-black-flight

    Spineshatter 2.6 mace 9 str 16 stam 5 def https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19335/spineshatter
    .
    .
    2H:
    Draconic Avenger 3.2 ax 21 str 18 stam 2% parry https://classicdb.ch/?item=19354
    The Untamed Blade 22 agi 16 stam 300 strength proc https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...-untamed-blade
    Draconic Maul 27 str 19 stam 2% crit https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19358/draconic-maul
    Drake Talon Cleaver 22 str 17 stam 240 damage proc https://classicdb.ch/?item=19353
    Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood 86 AP 33 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19364

    Staff of the Shadow Flame 29 int 24 stam 18 spirit 84 dmg 2% crit https://classicdb.ch/?item=19356
    Shadow Wing Focus Staff 40 int 22 stam 17 spirit 56 dmg https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...ng-focus-staff
    .

    Ranged:
    Heartstriker Bow 24 AP 9 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19350#comments
    Dragonbreath Hand Cannon 14 Agi 7 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19368
    Ashjre'thul, Crossbow of Smiting 36 ranged AP 7 stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19361
    .
    Wands:
    Dragon's Touch (wand) 12 int 7 stam 6 dmg https://classicdb.ch/?item=19367
    Essence Gatherer 7 int 5 stam 5 mp 5 https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19435/essence-gatherer
    .

    Razorgore:
    Arcane Infused Gem Hunter Hunter trinket
    The Black Book Warlock Warlock trinket
    Gloves of Rapid Evolution Healer cloth hands
    Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal Caster cloth shoulder
    Unscathed Egg Battle pet
    .
    Vaelastrasz the Corrupt
    Helm of Endless Rage Plate helm
    Mind Quickening Gem Mage Mage trinket
    Pendant of the Fallen Dragon Spirit neck
    Red Dragonscale Protector Paladin shield
    Rune of Metamorphosis Druid Druid trinket
    .
    Death Talon Packs
    Boots of Pure Thought Healer cloth feet
    Cloak of Draconic Might Strength/agility back
    .
    Broodlord Lashlayer
    Black Brood Pauldrons Agility mail shoulder
    Bracers of Arcane Accuracy Caster cloth wrist
    Heartstriker Agility bow
    Lifegiving Gem Warrior Warrior trinket
    Maladath, Runed Blade of the Black Flight Parry 1H sword
    Venomous Totem Rogue Rogue trinket
    Blackwing Banner Battle pet
    .
    Firemaw
    Black Ash Robe Healer/FR cloth chest
    Claw of the Black Drake Strength fist weapon
    Cloak of Firemaw Stamina/AP back
    Firemaw's Clutch Caster cloth waist
    Legguards of the Fallen Crusader Strength plate legs
    Natural Alignment Crystal Shaman trinket
    Primalist's Linked Legguards Caster mail legs
    Scrolls of Blinding Light Paladin trinket
    .
    Ebonroc
    Aegis of Preservation Priest trinket
    Band of Forced Concentration Caster finger
    Dragonbreath Hand Cannon Agility gun
    Drake Fang Talisman Dodge/AP trinket
    Ebony Flame Gloves Intellect cloth hands
    Malfurion's Blessed Bulwark Agility leather chest
    .
    Flamegor
    Circle of Applied Force Agility/strength finger
    Dragon's Touch Caster wand
    Emberweave Leggings Agility/intellect mail legs
    Herald of Woe Strength 2H mace
    Shroud of Pure Thought Spirit back
    Styleen's Impeding Scarab Parry trinket
    .
    Drake's shared loot table:
    Drake Talon Pauldrons Strength/Agility plate shoulder
    Rejuvenating Gem Spirit trinket
    Ring of Blackrock Spirit finger
    Taut Dragonhide Belt Agility/dodge leather waist
    Shadow Wing Focus Staff Spirit/spell power staff
    .
    Blackwing Lab packs
    Essence Gatherer Healer wand
    Band of Dark Dominion Caster finger
    Elementium Ingot (Techs only) Reagent
    .
    Death Talon Wyrmguards
    Interlaced Shadow Jerkin Agility/SR leather chest
    Ringo's Blizzard Boots Caster cloth feet
    .
    Chromaggus
    Angelista's Grasp Caster cloth waist
    Chromatic Boots Strength/agility plate feet
    Elementium Reinforced Bulwark Dodge/parry shield
    Elementium Threaded Cloak Dodge back
    Empowered Leggings Spirit cloth legs
    Girdle of the Fallen Crusader plate waist
    Primalist's Linked Waistguard Agility mail waist
    Shimmering Geta Spirit cloth feet
    Taut Dragonhide Gloves Healer leather hands
    Taut Dragonhide Shoulderpads Agility leather shoulder
    Whistle of Chromatic Bone Battle pet
    .
    Nefarian
    Archimtiros' Ring of Reckoning Agility finger
    Boots of the Shadow Flame Agility leather feet
    Cloak of the Brood Lord Caster back
    Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer Healer cloth head
    Neltharion's Tear Caster trinket
    Prestor's Talisman of Connivery Agility neck
    Pure Elementium Band Healer finger
    Therazane's Link Agility/crit mail waist
    Head of Nefarian
    Last edited by garicasha; 2020-02-01 at 07:42 PM.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  2. #2
    Dont use wowwiki, use classic wowhead. Wowwiki has updated loot tablets where the items have changed stats for retail and battle pets lol.

  3. #3
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahij View Post
    Dont use wowwiki, use classic wowhead. Wowwiki has updated loot tablets where the items have changed stats for retail and battle pets lol.
    This. WoWhead Classic has the 1.13 stats, drop rates, etc. It also has a Thottbot theme that makes the website look old-school, if you're the nostalgic sort.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  4. #4
    DFT to the MT first time it drops, then to the DPS for not bitching that the first one went to the MT. OTs don't really need it it's just overkill for them.

    First Nef heads to the tanks for the hit ring. You have ARchimtiros' ring listed as an agility ring when its more a "stamina" ring "imo". I mean, would any rogue hunter or warrior ever want it for DPSing? That one from Maraudon Princess would be better, no?

    Other than that what items are particularly contested? Not sure how your casters are organised but arguably "give the caster DPS stuff to mages then locks then meme specs" but really locks and mages can be treated equally. Some healers will want the 'dps' caster mace but only meme specs can use it for DPS so healer prio on that is simple...

    I mean, GJ listing every drop from the raid in the OP but most of them are pretty self explainatory from whatever loot rules you've been using so far, right?

    Sorry if I'm being totally derp and misunderstanding the question.
    Last edited by AeneasBK; 2019-12-03 at 02:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  5. #5
    More specifically what are BiS items for dps warrs and rogues, how much better are they than non-bis items, and what weapons are pvp / meme spec?
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    The insight I can give is that no matter loot system it should go to the most contributing player and in that order.
    Most contributing might not be beast healer, dps or whatever but also showing up on time every raid with buffs.

    After those criterias, then one might look at micro-performance.
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  7. #7
    Go check out Pingaans thread withthe google doc on BiS lists, it doesn't seem particularly contested so I'm assuming it's pretty accurate. Tell you what I'll go find the link... 2 secs

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...hlight=pingaan

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing click on the "Equipment & Enchants" header.

    "How much better they are" is kinda moot isn't it? At any rate I can't help you there. And is it fair to say (depending on your guild) that any items that don't appear on the BiS lists are default "meme spec" items?
    Last edited by AeneasBK; 2019-12-03 at 10:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Hottage's Avatar
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    Here's the correctly rebalanced loot distribution:

    Razorgore:
    Arcane Infused Gem Hunter Hunter trinket
    The Black Book Warlock Hunter trinket
    Gloves of Rapid Evolution Hunter cloth hands
    Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal Huntercloth shoulder
    Spineshatter Hunter 1H mace
    The Untamed Blade Agility Hunter 2H sword
    Unscathed Egg Hunter Battle pet

    Vaelastrasz the Corrupt
    Dragonfang Blade Hunter Agility dagger
    Helm of Endless Rage Hunter Plate helm
    Mind Quickening Gem Hunter trinket
    Pendant of the Fallen Dragon Hunter neck
    Red Dragonscale Protector Hunter shield
    Rune of Metamorphosis Hunter trinket

    Death Talon packs
    Boots of Pure Thought Hunter cloth feet
    Cloak of Draconic Might Hunter back
    Draconic Maul Strength Hunter 2H mace

    Broodlord Lashlayer
    Black Brood Pauldrons Hunter mail shoulder
    Bracers of Arcane Accuracy Hunter cloth wrist
    Heartstriker Hunter bow
    Lifegiving Gem Hunter trinket
    Maladath, Runed Blade of the Black Flight Hunter 1H sword
    Venomous Totem Hunter trinket
    Blackwing Banner Hunter pet

    Firemaw
    Black Ash Robe Hunter cloth chest
    Claw of the Black Drake Hunter fist weapon
    Cloak of Firemaw Hunter back
    Firemaw's Clutch Hunter waist
    Legguards of the Fallen Crusader Hunter plate legs
    Natural Alignment Crystal Hunter trinket
    Primalist's Linked Legguards Caster Hunter legs
    Scrolls of Blinding Light Hunter trinket

    Ebonroc
    Aegis of Preservation Hunter trinket
    Band of Forced Concentration Hunter finger
    Dragonbreath Hand Cannon Hunter gun
    Drake Fang Talisman Hunter trinket
    Ebony Flame Gloves Hunter hands
    Malfurion's Blessed Bulwark Hunter chest

    Flamegor
    Circle of Applied Force Hunter finger
    Dragon's Touch Hunter wand
    Emberweave Leggings Hunter legs
    Herald of Woe Hunter 2H mace
    Shroud of Pure Thought Hunter back
    Styleen's Impeding Scarab Hunter trinket

    Drake's shared loot table:
    Drake Talon Cleaver Hunter 2H axe
    Drake Talon Pauldrons Hunter shoulder
    Rejuvenating Gem Hunter trinket
    Ring of Blackrock Hunter finger
    Taut Dragonhide Belt Hunter waist
    Shadow Wing Focus Staff Hunter staff

    Blackwing Lab packs
    Doom's Edge Hunter axe
    Essence Gatherer Hunter wand
    Band of Dark Dominion Hunter finger
    Elementium Ingot (Techs only) Hunter Reagent

    Death Talon Wyrmguards
    Draconic Avenger Hunter 2H axe
    Interlaced Shadow Jerkin Hunter chest
    Ringo's Blizzard Boots Hunter feet

    Chromaggus
    Angelista's Grasp Caster Hunter waist
    Ashjre'thul, Crossbow of Smiting Hunter crossbow
    Chromatic Boots Hunter plate feet
    Chromatically Tempered Hunter 1H sword
    Claw of Chromaggus Hunter dagger
    Elementium Reinforced Bulwark Hunter shield
    Elementium Threaded Cloak Hunter back
    Empowered Leggings Spirit Hunter legs
    Girdle of the Fallen Crusader Stats Hunter waist
    Primalist's Linked Waistguard Agility Hunter waist
    Shimmering Geta Spirit Hunter feet
    Taut Dragonhide Gloves Healer Hunter hands
    Taut Dragonhide Shoulderpads Agility Hunter shoulder
    Whistle of Chromatic Bone Hunter Battle pet

    Nefarian
    Archimtiros' Ring of Reckoning Hunter finger
    Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood Hunter 2H sword
    Boots of the Shadow Flame Hunter feet
    Cloak of the Brood Lord Hunter back
    Crul'shorukh, Edge of Chaos Hunter 1H axe
    Lok'amir il Romathis Hunter mace
    Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer Hunter head
    Neltharion's Tear Hunter trinket
    Prestor's Talisman of Connivery Hunter neck
    Pure Elementium Band Hunter finger
    Staff of the Shadow Flame Hunter staff
    Therazane's Link Hunter waist
    Head of Nefarian Hunter Quest-starting item
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hottage View Post
    hunter loot table
    Beautiful.
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  10. #10
    Ok so going through the weapons:
    Spineshatter has +def and not a lot of stats, guessing it's for tanks
    Maladath looks like it was intended for tanks but I see it's BiS as an offhand for fury warriors probably because of +4 swords

    And I'm not an expert but all three of these look pretty solid for rogues or fury warriors:
    Chromatically tempered sword 14 agi / 14 str looks like it's great for rogues and warriors
    Crul'shorukh, Edge of Chaos 2.3 ax 36 AP 13 stam https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...-edge-of-chaos
    Claw of the Black Drake 2.6 MH fist 13 str 7 stam 1% crit https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...he-black-drake
    Doom's Edge 2.3 ax 16 agi 9 str 7 stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19362

    The 2Handers I'd need some help with, as they're a combo of procs, strength, agility, and crit. I also forget what 2H weapons hunters can use in classic, I know polearms but that's about it.

    On the ranged weapons:
    Heartstriker Bow 24 AP 9 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19350#comments
    Dragonbreath Hand Cannon 14 Agi 7 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19368
    Ashjre'thul, Crossbow of Smiting 36 ranged AP 7 stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19361

    I'm guessing Ashjre'thul is BiS for hunters and Heartstriker is bad for them. But I dunno if the DPS on Heartstriker would be high enough that it'd be an upgrade for a hunter that didn't get anything out of Molten Core.

    The Hand Cannon is more interesting as rogues, warriors, and hunters can all use AP.

    Oh and how legit is dagger tanking as a warrior for more heroic strikes? The dragonfang blade or whatever dagger has a 1.8 speed though.

    I also don't really see an off-hand to go with Lok'amir, 84 healing on a 1H is amazing but it looks like the off-hand from the head turn in or maybe some AV offhands are the best to go with it.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2019-12-04 at 10:58 PM.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post

    The 2Handers I'd need some help with, as they're a combo of procs, strength, agility, and crit. I also forget what 2H weapons hunters can use in classic, I know polearms but that's about it.
    This isn't a joke. But Ashkandi is a hunter weapon. Yes, other melee can use it too. But they have a large pool of options for two handers in BWL and from MC with better stats. This is the only two hander with just straight Attack power.
    Last edited by Potatowizard; 2019-12-04 at 11:05 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Ok so going through the weapons:
    Spineshatter has +def and not a lot of stats, guessing it's for tanks
    It's trash. Usually if people are not greedy noone wants it.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Maladath looks like it was intended for tanks but I see it's BiS as an offhand for fury warriors probably because of +4 swords
    It's BiS for all melee, but usually it's MT>Rogues>Warriors with good MH (R14/CTS).

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    And I'm not an expert but all three of these look pretty solid for rogues or fury warriors:
    Chromatically tempered sword 14 agi / 14 str looks like it's great for rogues and warriors
    Yea, it's basically based on your melee dps ranking. I.e. best melee gets it first.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Crul'shorukh, Edge of Chaos 2.3 ax 36 AP 13 stam https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...-edge-of-chaos
    This is BiS in BWL for Orc Warriors.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Claw of the Black Drake 2.6 MH fist 13 str 7 stam 1% crit https://classic.wowhead.com/item=193...he-black-drake
    That's a DE.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Doom's Edge 2.3 ax 16 agi 9 str 7 stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19362
    Good offhand but since it's trash drop everyone who wants it will have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    The 2Handers I'd need some help with, as they're a combo of procs, strength, agility, and crit. I also forget what 2H weapons hunters can use in classic, I know polearms but that's about it.
    Everything except maces pretty much, including staves. None of the twohanders are useful for PvE, except Ashkandi for Hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    On the ranged weapons:
    Heartstriker Bow 24 AP 9 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19350#comments
    PvP/Rogues. For PvE everyone wants hit so Satyr's or Blackcrow, and for PvP warriors want Blastershot Launcher.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Dragonbreath Hand Cannon 14 Agi 7 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19368
    Somewhat useful for tanks but overall it's a DE.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Ashjre'thul, Crossbow of Smiting 36 ranged AP 7 stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19361
    BiS ranged weapon until Naxx. Hunters will kill for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Oh and how legit is dagger tanking as a warrior for more heroic strikes? The dragonfang blade or whatever dagger has a 1.8 speed though.
    Situationally useful. Used on Vael quite commonly, also when DW tanking. Basically special situations where you have way too much rage.
    Last edited by Thunderball; 2019-12-04 at 11:08 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    It's trash. Usually if people are not greedy noone wants it.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Dragonbreath Hand Cannon 14 Agi 7 Stam https://classicdb.ch/?item=19368

    Somewhat useful for tanks but overall it's a DE.
    Dwarf hunters benefit from this gun tremendously. 3% hit + glancing reduction + 24 attack. Speed is a little iffy but, I digress

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Potatowizard View Post
    Dwarf hunters benefit from this gun tremendously. 3% hit + glancing reduction + 24 attack. Speed is a little iffy but, I digress
    There is no glancing on ranged attacks.
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  15. #15
    I thought attack power did nothing for hunters, only ranged attack power.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    I thought attack power did nothing for hunters, only ranged attack power.
    Ranged ap and melee ap are subset of ap. Like frost sd and fire sd are subsets of sd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    I thought attack power did nothing for hunters, only ranged attack power.
    "Attack power" applies to both melee and ranged. "Ranged attack power" applies to ranged only.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Outofmana's Avatar
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    As for casterloot in BWL:

    Since we don't really know the Idol of Night droprate/farmability etc in AQ, for casters, for any sensible guild, you'd assign 'the big 3' (mish/staff/tear) to both mages and locks, to either one who contributes most to the raid or guild in general. There'll always be failing officers of some lesser guilds trying to argue for Mish and mage prio but it really makes no sense as on private servers I was behind a 20 warrior roster for my t2.5 head as lock anyway and in AQ locks are on par with mages and also rate crit.
    Not healthy for any guild bar top5 to look MONTHS ahead. Treat casters equally in that regard, and remember casters only rate the big 3 as upgrades. Getting 5 pieces tier2 while someone else is getting mish/tear/staff is drama time and you'd lose casters who aren't stupid to see what's happening, rather build a strong core of valued and happy players to have a good raid atmosphere.

    For many especially on Horde (where shaman can get it instead) claw of chromaggus doesn't count towards this big 3 for good players btw, it's often used as a dummy item to keep a lower performing person 'happy'. Hence shamans usually all end up with Claw first.

    Then on ally side you'd have Paladins thrown into the mix, which should have prio on Lok'Amir over priests, having no benediction available and priests should get their AQ20 mace easily after anyway. The only 'problem' here is Mish'undare, again go for most contributions and don't lock a paladin out, as it's crit is generally underrated to people not understanding the paladin class and (properly) played playstyle. Compromise was usually first the core mages and locks, then the paladins, or at least the Paladins for Mish over any mage 'raidalt' or god forbid, a trial. Personally I'd treat all 3 classes equally on it for good skilled/contributing players who never skip a raid.

  19. #19
    That was really hard to follow, but your english is better than my dutch.

    Mish'undare cloth helm 24 int 9 spirit 15 stam 35 spellpower 2% spell crit https://classicdb.ch/?item=19375
    Staff of the Shadow Flame 29 int 24 stam 18 spirit 84 dmg 2% crit https://classicdb.ch/?item=19356
    Neltharian's Tear trinket 44 spell damage 2% spell hit https://classicdb.ch/?item=19379

    ^ so those are the three items we're talking about.

    Claw of Chromaggus Dagger 17 int 7 stam 64 spellpower 4 MP 5 https://classicdb.ch/?item=19347

    Definitely not bad but MC standards, 4 MP 5 isn't a big deal but 64 spellpower sure as heck ain't bad.

    So the AQ20 mace you're talking about looks to be:
    Stinger of Ayamiss 7 int 9 stam 36 spellpower 1% spell crit https://classicdb.ch/?item=21466

    err wait maybe the priest mace reward from AQ20 is this
    Gavel of Infinite Wisdom 11 int 10 stam 90 healing 4 mp 5 (requires exalted with Cenarian Circle) https://classic.wowhead.com/item=214...nfinite-wisdom

    36 spellpower isn't that good, I'm not sure what you're talking about there.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2019-12-05 at 04:24 AM.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Hottage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    Beautiful.
    Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
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