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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I am going to laugh at you for thinking your degree and where you got it is what determines your performance on the job. If that were true then the bestest workers would be those ivy league graduates who got in through nepotism.
    I am going to laugh at you for thinking where you got your degree does not matter in your performance on the job. Although not the only factor, it is definitely one of the important ones.

    Here is a very old story:
    Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    I am going to laugh at you for thinking where you got your degree does not matter in your performance on the job. Although not the only factor, it is definitely one of the important ones.
    Nice moving of the goal post but your original post was pretty clear you think where they got their degree is all that matters too late to back out of your elitist bullshit now.

  3. #63
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    Did I imply there weren't?

    The point is why reject highly skilled immigrants that by all metrics you can come up with contribute massively to the country
    There aren't plenty of American workers though so I'd contest Saninicus on that point since there is a talent shortage that surpasses the total number of h1bs even administered.

  4. #64
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    There aren't plenty of American workers though so I'd contest Saninicus on that point since there is a talent shortage that surpasses the total number of h1bs even administered.
    I doubt it. Last I checked an entry level computer job in my area wasn't $10 while Amazon will pay you $13 just to run around. If there's a talent shortage then that's the fault of the American education system, which as we know is so bad that college debt is probably the longest running meme to this day. Elect Bernie Sanders, get free college education, and maybe American workers can indeed program instead of subsisting on Amazon or Walmart for employment.

    See this dude called Eli Tech? He's an amazing genius when it comes to electric repair and what he does for income is bartender. He tried to get a job working for Louis Rossmann in NY but he was turned down. The talent is there but too many people unable to afford a proper education.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Molis's Avatar
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    Flooding America with low wage workers using the H-1B in not something I would encourage.

    Using it to bring in highly skilled and specialized employees 1000 times yes.
    I was a hiring Manager in a Laboratory, and you can not find a single qualified individual in 100 applicants. They do not have the right degree or experience, and if they have that they do not have a license.

    We brought in help from the Philippines, and most of them were the best workers I have seen in years.
    If it was not so damn expensive I would bring in more.

    If an American is not willing to go through the educational and license requirement to work in a regulated lab environment then the only way I survive is bringing them in.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by RCA View Post
    Just stop, and let me know how you have traveled to India to train impeccability,..They have been bred to appease their superiors by their constant agreement (it's a yes I understand...I don't want to be left behind culture). I constantly advocate abstract thinking not bullshit group thinking, which is how I got ahead in this world. Fuck you if Vighnesh understands what I am trying to do (to benefit) but Rohit doesn't fathom it...
    I'm Indian, I came to this country when I was 3. My father came tot he U.S. when he was 28, on a student visa, and then on an H-1B once he graduated, which led to his green card and eventually citizenship.

    He could think corners around anyone in his bank, and was eventually promoted to upper management. It's not his fault he was smarter than the white guys in the room.

    I, myself, attended all American schools, and whipped the pants off most every American kid I ever met, finishing in the top percent of my class from kindergarten all the way through law school. I'm not sure why, maybe we just value education more than the average American, but my best friend is a mechanic and I'm a lawyer, and I could never understand why he cared more about playing football than school, especially considering that I thought he was quite smart when he wanted to be. It's just that he had different priorities.

    Your view of Indian culture is, frankly, reductive and shows your bias. Rohit may not get what you're laying down, but guess what, Rohit's staying in India because he's the equivalent of Billy Bob from Bumblefuck Missouri here. There are more than a billion people in India, and guess what, like every other goddamn place in the world the majority of them are worker bees.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2019-12-04 at 06:58 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Molis View Post
    Flooding America with low wage workers using the H-1B in not something I would encourage.

    Using it to bring in highly skilled and specialized employees 1000 times yes.
    I was a hiring Manager in a Laboratory, and you can not find a single qualified individual in 100 applicants. They do not have the right degree or experience, and if they have that they do not have a license.

    We brought in help from the Philippines, and most of them were the best workers I have seen in years.
    If it was not so damn expensive I would bring in more.

    If an American is not willing to go through the educational and license requirement to work in a regulated lab environment then the only way I survive is bringing them in.
    We have done it only once. In early to mid 90s we were involved with the Domenigoni Dam project. Which was the last large dam project in the continental US. We wanted to hire an engineer with dam specialty. We could not find one and ended up sponsoring a Russian Ph.D from Saint-Petersburg University. Smart was an understatement. When the Geotechnical License was introduced in California, she went to the exam with no reference materials, and passed on the first try.

    She ended up a citizen. Semi-retired in 2010 and fully retired in 2015.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I'm Indian, I came to this country when I was 3. My father came tot he U.S. when he was 28, on a student visa, and then on an H-1B once he graduated, which led to his green card and eventually citizenship.

    He could think corners around anyone in his bank, and was eventually promoted to upper management. It's not his fault he was smarter than the white guys in the room.

    I, myself, attended all American schools, and whipped the pants off most every American kid I ever met, finishing in the top percent of my class from kindergarten all the way through law school. I'm not sure why, maybe we just value education more than the average American, but my best friend is a mechanic and I'm a lawyer, and I could never understand why he cared more about playing football than school, especially considering that I thought he was quite smart when he wanted to be. It's just that he had different priorities.

    Your view of Indian culture is, frankly, reductive and shows your bias. Rohit may not get what you're laying down, but guess what, Rohit's staying in India because he's the equivalent of Billy Bob from Bumblefuck Missouri here. There are more than a billion people in India, and guess what, like every other goddamn place in the world the majority of them are worker bees.
    My bias and your accomplishments should erase the fact the recruiting agency never followed the specifications I requested (wasted many hours on hiring, prob close to 1.5 days added up)? Of course I understand this world is full of people who are better and more intellectually capable than myself (no matter the background), but when the company I poured my young heart into doesn't respect my lowly opinion on a matter, I should develop a sense of more understanding and compassion, please. Yes, there are plenty of Indian citizens that deserve a wonderful life, due to their hard work, but when it's not the most pragmatic route...I get uncertain/worried I guess. I will say the bobbling head "yes" which was a confusing day for myself, let me know about the different cultures and mannerisms . Overall you're correct most of them are drones as you mentioned, just got to find the diamonds in the ruff (like any other culture in this world).

  9. #69
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Just a thought:

    Maybe there is no desire to exploit foreign workers because of lower wages, and the expectations are not too high?

    Point being:

    Our software company has a severe lack of employees. Both of the arguments above don't hold sway.

    Neither are our requirements too high - as we train a lot of peopel who come from the food industry (we hired a lot of people who worked with our software), and loan dumping isn't possible, as i cannot pay a foreigner less than a citizen, due to laws. And honestly, it would be stupid, because even if i paid him less, i have all the problems with getting him a visa, training him, just for the guy to switch after 4 weeks to a company that pays more - that's financial suicide.

    There aren't enough IT professionals in our country, mainly due to the growth of the sector as well as the education system taking too long to adapt - we still produce twice the amount of lawyers/architects than IT professionals in our universities (not that lawyers/architects are uselss, but our economy needs much more IT professionals than them).

    The kind of degree does play a role, but the longer you work, it dimishes more and more. A guy that graduated Harvard 30 years ago and has not been working in IT since then (and not kept up on his own) is practically useless, even if he was on some Deans list or whatever. I left university a decade ago. While i can still use a lot i learned there (paradigms, etc.) all the tools i used and the skill associated with it, are absolutely useless right now. Working experience in IT at least here is the most important factor, and according to my linkedin page and the job offers i get compared to before when i had no work experience...

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Maybe this means that tech companies will have to up their pay and stop forcing american workers to train their replacements? Maybe the writer of this article should get a clue about what americans need instead of what corporations want.
    They say when an Indian becomes manager in USA or Singapore, then 70% employees/workers are Indians those companies. My village boys.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Except there are thousands of other people in the US that applied for the school that could have gone instead.
    Boo hoo. Maybe they could apply anywhere in the world. The idea of being born in a place means you are more deserving is no different than saying if you were born certain skin colour, or sex, or sexuality.

    All things a person can't help and have no choice over therefore should not be taken into consideration where they live, work, study, be friends with etc.

  12. #72
    If I get to live in USA for 10 years, I will happily go to South America or Africa when the stay expires. The problem is these H1-B visas come for jobs and then they want green card or U.S citizenship or 20 years stay.

  13. #73
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiasMeh View Post
    If I get to live in USA for 10 years, I will happily go to South America or Africa when the stay expires. The problem is these H1-B visas come for jobs and then they want green card or U.S citizenship or 20 years stay.
    Do you have a problem with people becoming naturalized CITIZENS by being working professionals? I mean fuck, you guys are transparent as fuck. From liking
    Only legal immigration and illegals being the evil to not even wanting legal immigration of educated professionals.

  14. #74
    I am Murloc! Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    This is the definition of stupid. Literally making it so high skill immigrants cant come to the US and contribute to its prosperity.

    Hopefully people from India can take their talent to a country that appreciates those skills
    Most H1B aren't high skilled. Not compared to American workers at any rate. They are just average at best or complete fraudsters at worst. There's a different visa (O-1 I think) for real geniuses and things.

    This is good. Too many corporations use the visa to displace American workers. It's ruined IT between visas and unrealistic job requirements with low pay. For years there has been this bullshit peddled about the H1B visa being "highly skilled" and anyone pointing out that was a blatant lie was called a racist or xenophobe by the shills. There were and still are people who go around speaking of the visa with this "best and brightest" horseshit every time it comes up when the majority of visas are for regular grunt work that an American workers could do just as easily as an Indian on a visa. It's about control and often pay. The visa holder is basically a hostage of their employer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LiasMeh View Post
    They say when an Indian becomes manager in USA or Singapore, then 70% employees/workers are Indians those companies. My village boys.
    Yes. Indian managers are known for keeping their departments mostly Indian when they can and "cleansing" it of Americans.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2019-12-12 at 12:59 PM.

  15. #75
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Most H1B aren't high skilled. Not compared to American workers at any rate. They are just average at best or complete fraudsters at worst. There's a different visa (O-1 I think) for real geniuses and things.

    This is good. Too many corporations use the visa to displace American workers. It's ruined IT between visas and unrealistic job requirements with low pay. For years there has been this bullshit peddled about the H1B visa being "highly skilled" and anyone pointing out that was a blatant lie was called a racist or xenophobe by the shills. There were and still are people who go around speaking of the visa with this "best and brightest" horseshit every time it comes up when the majority of visas are for regular grunt work that an American workers could do just as easily as an Indian on a visa. It's about control and often pay. The visa holder is basically a hostage of their employer.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes. Indian managers are known for keeping their departments mostly Indian when they can and "cleansing" it of Americans.
    Mm so there can be bias in hiring you’re saying?

  16. #76
    I am Murloc! Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Mm so there can be bias in hiring you’re saying?
    Absolutely. Which isn't a Indian thing, it's a shit manager thing, but a very likely thing to find when an Indian manager gets to a high position.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Absolutely. Which isn't a Indian thing, it's a shit manager thing, but a very likely thing to find when an Indian manager gets to a high position.
    Look at Google high rank management.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I'm Indian, I came to this country when I was 3. My father came tot he U.S. when he was 28, on a student visa, and then on an H-1B once he graduated, which led to his green card and eventually citizenship. He could think corners around anyone in his bank, and was eventually promoted to upper management. It's not his fault he was smarter than the white guys in the room.

    Chinese have baidu.com and HongMeng. By now India should have Indian search engine and operating system when 70% H-1B visas go to Indian IT/Tech workers.

    From what I have read Giant Indian IT/Tech companies Infosys, TCS etc.. open office buildings in USA and 70% employees are Indians. Their family life is disturbed. Their wives come to USA. Then green card and U.S citizenship. Indian companies must open office buildings in India when they want 70% Indian workers.

    Vodafone India (300 million subscribers) has $7 billion loss in 3 months of 2019. Big player Reliance Jio has increased tariffs by +40%. Whole Indian telecom industry is shaken and scared. Indian parliament is running here and there. That shows how good Indian managers are.

  18. #78
    I am Murloc! Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiasMeh View Post
    Look at Google high rank management.


    - - - Updated - - -




    Chinese have baidu.com and HongMeng. By now India should have Indian search engine and operating system when 70% H-1B visas go to Indian IT/Tech workers.

    From what I have read Giant Indian IT/Tech companies Infosys, TCS etc.. open office buildings in USA and 70% employees are Indians. Their family life is disturbed. Their wives come to USA. Then green card and U.S citizenship. Indian companies must open office buildings in India when they want 70% Indian workers.

    Vodafone India (300 million subscribers) has $7 billion loss in 3 months of 2019. Big player Reliance Jio has increased tariffs by +40%. Whole Indian telecom industry is shaken and scared. Indian parliament is running here and there. That shows how good Indian managers are.
    Careful, you may get called a xenophobic racist for pointing these facts out... been that way for years with the pro-H1B shills.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Careful, you may get called a xenophobic racist for pointing these facts out... been that way for years with the pro-H1B shills.
    Vodafone India (300 million subscribers) has $7 billion loss in 3 months of 2019 will shut up the pros.

    Billionaire K Birla said "Vodafone may shut down" at the Business summit in India. All those high profile MBAs were there.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by LiasMeh View Post
    If I get to live in USA for 10 years, I will happily go to South America or Africa when the stay expires. The problem is these H1-B visas come for jobs and then they want green card or U.S citizenship or 20 years stay.
    Great, that's how freedom and capitalism should work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Most H1B aren't high skilled. Not compared to American workers at any rate. They are just average at best or complete fraudsters at worst. There's a different visa (O-1 I think) for real geniuses and things.

    This is good. Too many corporations use the visa to displace American workers. It's ruined IT between visas and unrealistic job requirements with low pay. For years there has been this bullshit peddled about the H1B visa being "highly skilled" and anyone pointing out that was a blatant lie was called a racist or xenophobe by the shills. There were and still are people who go around speaking of the visa with this "best and brightest" horseshit every time it comes up when the majority of visas are for regular grunt work that an American workers could do just as easily as an Indian on a visa. It's about control and often pay. The visa holder is basically a hostage of their employer.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes. Indian managers are known for keeping their departments mostly Indian when they can and "cleansing" it of Americans.
    Who gives a shit if you d8int think they are skilled. If a company wants to hire them, then they should be able to hire them. Instead of embracing freedom and capitalism, you are opting for national socialism.

    There has to be a reason for this, and none of the obvious answers make you look very good.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2019-12-12 at 03:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

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