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  1. #1

    How did the Amani fail to destroy Quel'thalas for millenia...

    When Scourge did it in an afternoon?
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  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Basically the Sunwell created a defensive shield for them. Dar'khan betrayed the secrets behind the barrier to Arthas which allowed the scourge to get past it.
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  3. #3
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Betrayal from within, as said above. The Quel'dorei were a united front against the Amani, but the Lich King seduced Dar'khan to his service with promises of power and he betrayed the Magisters and allowed them access to the city. The Scourge was also a greater force by far than the Amani once the Troll Wars had broken their ranks - though they kept up with the occasional offensive against Silvermoon, the Amani didn't have the power anymore to be a true threat after their original defeat.
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  4. #4
    Also, the scourge may have just been more powerful in the long run anyway, it's possible the scourge would have eventually found a way in regardless. Dar'khan was written in later to help explain it but wasn't part of the WC 3 story afterall.

  5. #5
    Quel'thalas allied with the humans during the troll wars.

    The scourge at the time of invasion was made up of humans as well. Plus, every dead elf adds to the scourge numbers.


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  6. #6
    they were on their own, no help from the humans because the humans were already decimated themselves

    betrayed from within

    every death adds to the scourge's ranks, which were already incredibly overwhelming
    change can't wait.

  7. #7
    The Scourge only did it so quickly because Arthas found someone who could sabotage Silvermoon's greatest defense from within. The Amani were never able to breach the Ban'dinoriel protecting the city, that's why they failed.
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  8. #8
    You'd think with an entire millennia to work with, the Amani would have raised generations and generations of armies worth of trolls to dedicate their lives to studying magic to break down that shield. Considering the considerable power of Loa, it's a little odd they never once managed to ever have one troll do anything of note to that shield. But even if the Amani could have ever dealt with the shield for even a moment, they still had Sylvanas to deal with. The Amani didn't really have any genius tacticians over the course of millennia to deal with someone like Sylvanas... which is a little sad as well. Geez, the Amani really had nothing going for them, huh? Just bullied for so, so so long. That's like, how many grandparents telling their grand-kids over and over about this dumb impenetrable shield and the same one legendary Ranger General of Silvermoon that just kept routing literally any atempt they would have had. She must have been like the Boogeyman to baby Amani. Maybe it's no wonder they never managed to do anything about her if they grew up listening to stories like those and reading about her across their entire history. Yikes.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Maljinwo's Avatar
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    The Amani never bothered with Arcane magic which is how they were never able to penetrate the Magic Shield Silvermoon had
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The Amani never bothered with Arcane magic which is how they were never able to penetrate the Magic Shield Silvermoon had
    Darn elves must have kept destroying their spirit lodges and sanctums before they could train any shamans or priests with purge or dispel. Mostly kidding.. well, maybe that's a little closer to how things actually went.. elf strike forces periodically coming in and raiding structures with knowledge, scouts taking out potential magic threats.. "oh hey did you see Jimtusk, he said he was going to start training to be a shaman yesterday." "Yeah, I saw his head rolling down the street an hour ago with an arrow in it." "Poor Jimtusk." "Rest in peace, Jimtusk."

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Darn elves must have kept destroying their spirit lodges and sanctums before they could train any shamans or priests with purge or dispel. Mostly kidding.. well, maybe that's a little closer to how things actually went.. elf strike forces periodically coming in and raiding structures with knowledge, scouts taking out potential magic threats.. "oh hey did you see Jimtusk, he said he was going to start training to be a shaman yesterday." "Yeah, I saw his head rolling down the street an hour ago with an arrow in it." "Poor Jimtusk." "Rest in peace, Jimtusk."
    The Amani never recovered from the Troll Wars. The elves actually reverse-engineered their magic and used it against them.
    After that, the Forest trolls scattered and it wasn't until Zul'jin came that they were able to unify and become another threat again. Specially since Zul'jin did understand about the runestones and the Sunwell and planned to use this to his advantage but was never able to break any Farstrider for information, specially Lor'themar
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The Amani never recovered from the Troll Wars. The elves actually reverse-engineered their magic and used it against them.
    After that, the Forest trolls scattered and it wasn't until Zul'jin came that they were able to unify and become another threat again. Specially since Zul'jin did understand about the runestones and the Sunwell and planned to use this to his advantage but was never able to break any Farstrider for information, specially Lor'themar
    Dang I'd love to see how elves reverse engineering troll shamanism and faiths went down. That sounds like a potentially very entertaining exchange. "What does the shrunken head do?" "Well first you need voodoo." "Who-do?" "You do." "We need a better translator."

    But anyway, if elves reverse engineered their magic from shamanism and troll faiths, wouldn't that mean at some point there were some primitive-level elf shaman and those that studied Loa? I guess to some extent this explains how Blood Elf priests seem to practice shadow magic so openly in their own streets to brainwash their own people into compliance. Kinda makes me wonder how far deep any of them ever actually went into it. Like, did any elves try cannibalism in an effort to obtain magic and power?

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Dang I'd love to see how elves reverse engineering troll shamanism and faiths went down. That sounds like a potentially very entertaining exchange. "What does the shrunken head do?" "Well first you need voodoo." "Who-do?" "You do." "We need a better translator."

    But anyway, if elves reverse engineered their magic from shamanism and troll faiths, wouldn't that mean at some point there were some primitive-level elf shaman and those that studied Loa? I guess to some extent this explains how Blood Elf priests seem to practice shadow magic so openly in their own streets to brainwash their own people into compliance. Kinda makes me wonder how far deep any of them ever actually went into it. Like, did any elves try cannibalism in an effort to obtain magic and power?
    Pretty sure the elves simply copied their spells and enchantements (Zanza the Restless alludes to the elves stealing troll enchantment and creating bastardized versions called Arcanum) using arcane instead of the elements as the source
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    You'd think with an entire millennia to work with, the Amani would have raised generations and generations of armies worth of trolls to dedicate their lives to studying magic to break down that shield. Considering the considerable power of Loa, it's a little odd they never once managed to ever have one troll do anything of note to that shield.
    The whole troll attitude in wow is questionable in that regard. They where the dominant species once, yes. But they spend the millennia waiting for the world to be handed on a silver plate instead of working to rule it again. They just sat in their cities bathing in past glories and watching their society and power crumble to ruins. From time to time they took some dumb actions to rule the world again like summoning hakkar (multiple times, because third time's the charm i guess?).

    On a serious note though, the barrier was mostly powered by the sunwell. I don't know if any loa is comparable in power to this.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    The whole troll attitude in wow is questionable in that regard. They where the dominant species once, yes. But they spend the millennia waiting for the world to be handed on a silver plate instead of working to rule it again. They just sat in their cities bathing in past glories and watching their society and power crumble to ruins. From time to time they took some dumb actions to rule the world again like summoning hakkar (multiple times, because third time's the charm i guess?).

    On a serious note though, the barrier was mostly powered by the sunwell. I don't know if any loa is comparable in power to this.
    well we have examples in real history of once great civilizations doing the same,mayans and other south american empires

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    The whole troll attitude in wow is questionable in that regard. They where the dominant species once, yes. But they spend the millennia waiting for the world to be handed on a silver plate instead of working to rule it again. They just sat in their cities bathing in past glories and watching their society and power crumble to ruins. From time to time they took some dumb actions to rule the world again like summoning hakkar (multiple times, because third time's the charm i guess?).

    On a serious note though, the barrier was mostly powered by the sunwell. I don't know if any loa is comparable in power to this.
    Trolls are very prone to infighting, which is why most of their societies began to crumble away. The amani did try to retake their land and chances are they could have succeeded by brute force during the troll wars, they had an army that threatened quel'thalas barrier and all, something not even the scourge army was capable of.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    The whole troll attitude in wow is questionable in that regard. They where the dominant species once, yes. But they spend the millennia waiting for the world to be handed on a silver plate instead of working to rule it again. They just sat in their cities bathing in past glories and watching their society and power crumble to ruins. From time to time they took some dumb actions to rule the world again like summoning hakkar (multiple times, because third time's the charm i guess?).

    On a serious note though, the barrier was mostly powered by the sunwell. I don't know if any loa is comparable in power to this.
    Considering Bwomsamdi's connection to the Shadowlands and his masters specifically, now it seems a good a time as any to question just how powerful a Loa can become, and what the most powerful ones actually are. Keeping in mind, the Sunwell is just a single drop from the Well of Eternity, and was reignited by later events with the spark of a single Naaru. Bwomsamdi may not have been the only such Loa with these kinds of connections and powers tied to the Shadowlands especially considering just how numerous the array of Loa the trolls worship. This can be especially concerning to the Sunwell's defense, as the Sunwell was once corrupted by forces of death by the Scourge. So if the Loa like Bwomsamdi are connected to beings that potentially have power sources comparable to Arthas, it stands to reason that the Trolls actually could have had a way to actually do some damage - even if they didn't know it then.

  18. #18
    The Patient Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Considering Bwomsamdi's connection to the Shadowlands and his masters specifically, now it seems a good a time as any to question just how powerful a Loa can become, and what the most powerful ones actually are. Keeping in mind, the Sunwell is just a single drop from the Well of Eternity, and was reignited by later events with the spark of a single Naaru. Bwomsamdi may not have been the only such Loa with these kinds of connections and powers tied to the Shadowlands especially considering just how numerous the array of Loa the trolls worship. This can be especially concerning to the Sunwell's defense, as the Sunwell was once corrupted by forces of death by the Scourge. So if the Loa like Bwomsamdi are connected to beings that potentially have power sources comparable to Arthas, it stands to reason that the Trolls actually could have had a way to actually do some damage - even if they didn't know it then.
    It makes me wonder if Bwonsamdi wasn't 'born yet' when the Troll wars happened. He might not be as old as we think he is

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  19. #19
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Betrayal from within basically.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    It makes me wonder if Bwonsamdi wasn't 'born yet' when the Troll wars happened. He might not be as old as we think he is
    Amani tribe does not worship him though.

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