How do you feel about Andrew Yang's UBI of 1,000 a month for every US Adult

[Mayhem]

Oh yeah, that's why poorer countries have less crime than sweden and countries richer than sweden have more crime. Because being poor makes people commit crime.

This angle that being poor causes crime is pretty much dead. I have no idea why people keep regurgitating it.

Ok, so that is what you are saying, got it. Welp for your children's sake I do hope this never happens to you.

[Orbitus]

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/4/1057/656274





What's that? Hmm. Looks like a blow to the mantra you and others like to repeat.

There's also this: https://www.kriminalvarden.se/global...ngsrapport.pdf

And this: https://www.bra.se/download/18.1ff47...bland_unga.pdf

So, Swedish stuff, proves stuff isn't happening in the US? Thanks, you didn't disprove anything.

[Orbitus]

This idea of American exceptionalism really needs to die.

No, I asked you to prove something, and you can't. You are trying to use Sweden as an example, a country that has pretty decent social safety nets to say that someone desperate that doesn't have any other option, won't resort to crime in the forms of theft or robbery to survive. They are ABSOLUTELY related. If you take away what little they have, they will do anything they can to survive, including selling drugs, stealing, or robbing people. Maybe even more.

If you can disprove it, go ahead and try.

[Mormolyce]

I mean I'd means test it and then it'd basically be regular welfare.

Stop giving poor people money, they can’t even handle there current money situation, why make it even worse

LOL, I think the poor's current money situation is not having enough money.

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Yeah, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

He is right about gender though, it is a far stronger predictor of the categories of violent crime he mentioned than wealth.

[Freighter]

I also made comparisons to South Korea, which largely lacks a social safety net and as such have far more people living in poverty but has far less crime than sweden. But that's too inconvenient to your "b-but American society".

American exceptionalism is just an idea, not real.

Do you know what the difference between these countries and usa is? Both sweden and South Korea have cultures that exercise strong social control and are high trust.

Just going to chip in here because you're comparing to my country.

Some of the stats that people use for comparing are usually highly embellished. Take sex crimes, many don't even bother to report it here because Korean society is pretty misogynist. So, it looks good on paper because not many report them because it's futile and in some cases even outright harmful to you. This is quite misleading if you're trying to make comparisons because you only look at the reported crimes.

[Ghostpanther]

Just going to chip in here because you're comparing to my country.

Some of the stats that people use for comparing are usually highly embellished. Take sex crimes, many don't even bother to report it here because Korean society is pretty misogynist. So, it looks good on paper because not many report them because it's futile and in some cases even outright harmful to you. This is quite misleading if you're trying to make comparisons because you only look at the reported crimes.

That is a really good point. And one which some miss when discussing self defense use of firearms. Which is another topic, but the same principle does apply.

[FreeHongKong]

I mean I'd means test it and then it'd basically be regular welfare.



LOL, I think the poor's current money situation is not having enough money.

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He is right about gender though, it is a far stronger predictor of the categories of violent crime he mentioned than wealth.

No it’s more poor lifestyle choices.

[Mayhem]

I'm not going go make the series of bad choices you have to make to end up so poor that you can't afford food.

Poor people are only poor because of bad choices, stop that classism.

[shimerra]

That is a really good point. And one which some miss when discussing self defense use of firearms. Which is another topic, but the same principle does apply.

And there's also an under reporting when it comes to the violent use and threatening to use firearms. But you only care about the one way don't you?

[NoiseTank13]

Poor people are only poor because of bad choices, stop that classism.

It's only classism when the rich are on the defensive.

[Orange Joe]

Why would they starve to death? there's plenty of animals running around in the woods they can trap and eat.

Do you not know what poaching is?

[Shadowferal]

hmm...going to jail does get you out of bad weather, and free food and medical.
If desperate enough it looks to be an appealing option.

[d00mGuArD]

Turns out people are not buying the "1000 a month for every one, free money here!" and are not voting for Yang.
I don't think most people believe where Yang will find the money for it.
They probably know who will actually pay for it!

It's like those UK guys (labour) on last elections that were promising everything and still lost the election big time.
Most people will simply not believe such blatant lies.... They probably know who will actually pay for it!

[Endus]

Turns out people are not buying the "1000 a month for every one, free money here!" and are not voting for Yang.
I don't think most people believe where Yang will find the money for it.
They probably know who will actually pay for it!

It's like those UK guys (labour) on last elections that were promising everything and still lost the election big time.
Most people will simply not believe such blatant lies.... They probably know who will actually pay for it!

Everyone does.

The wealthy.

This has literally never been a secret; it's the entire point of the proposal.

[Themius]

How will it lower unemployment?

Incentivizing people to not work is not going to make them want to work harder.

I look forward to him providing evidence to back up all of his absurd claims.

Every time this (ubi)has been tested that wasn’t the outcome so what are you basing that on? People didn’t stop working or feel they Didn’t need to

[Machismo]

Every time this (ubi)has been tested that wasn’t the outcome so what are you basing that on? People didn’t stop working or feel they Didn’t need to

Well, I'm basing it off the fact that people were slower to go back to work when the unemployment benefits were extended during the great Recession. Then, when their benefits were about to run out, people were magically able to find work at the last minute.

[Themius]

Well, I'm basing it off the fact that people were slower to go back to work when the unemployment benefits were extended during the great Recession. Then, when their benefits were about to run out, people were magically able to find work at the last minute.

Okay well I rather you base it on actual ubi Pilot programs.

They saved money. Returned to school or paid down bills.

[Machismo]

Okay well I rather you base it on actual ubi Pilot programs.

They saved money. Returned to school or paid down bills.

And those pilot programs are small, and are given specifically to push people to work. "If you do this right, then we can try and do this for everyone..."

Meanwhile, it's trillions of dollars a year.

Bottom line, how much more money would it take for you to stop working, or to work less? I think we can agree that most people would stop working if they won the lottery, right? So, almost everyone has a number. Now, the only question is, what is that number?

[d00mGuArD]

Everyone does.

The wealthy.

This has literally never been a secret; it's the entire point of the proposal.

If people actually bought that, we would expect everyone to be voting for free money.
But i don't think people believe that the wealthy will pay for it. Which is why they don't vote for him

[Mormolyce]

No it’s more poor lifestyle choices.

Okay, quantify that.