The explorers league are such hypocrites

[Minikin]

Bait thread or the typical "Any character from a member race of the Alliance is an Alliance agent acting with full approval, because I say so. Also, damn the Alliance racists for lumping every evil orc into the Horde!" nonsense.

how dare they put orcs in internment camps right after they committed genocide on nearly two planets and destroyed 1.5 of them! wth!!!! alliance is so bad!

[huth]

As to why the Alliance would "tolerate" the two guys in their fold... it's likely because the Alliance had zero idea of what was happening in Tirisfal glades at the time of Vanilla.

And because they're diplomats. They'd get some amount of tolerance even if they were from the Horde. That's kinda their job.

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Cataclysm: "Yeah let's wipe out this entire tribe of Tauren because they don't want us to dig up and ruin their holy lands in search of artifacts!"

Battle for Azeroth: "The goblins are such monsters for attacking us when we extracted a resource of mass desctruction from the sword of a titan! Barbarians!!!

I fail to see how a group of Dwarves not specificially related to the Explorer's League digging up tauren lands matters here. Not all Dwarves are members of the League, and not all members of the League are Dwarves.

[Schattenlied]

Oh and yeah, Genocide is totally justified if no one likes them. Who cares about the Amani anyway. They totally aren't a proud people like anyone else on Azeroth. Being driven from their own lands and butchered.

Well maybe if they didn't try to murder everyone they saw at first sight no questions asked no warnings issued then they wouldn't have been killed off by the Humans and High Elves.

[Feanoro]

how dare they put orcs in internment camps right after they committed genocide on nearly two planets and destroyed 1.5 of them! wth!!!! alliance is so bad!

How dare they not just lay down and apologize for their skulls damaging the orcs' axes?

I fail to see how a group of Dwarves not specificially related to the Explorer's League digging up tauren lands matters here. Not all Dwarves are members of the League, and not all members of the League are Dwarves.

Isn't it funny how one of the Hordies' main charges against the Alliance is racism, but they always lump characters together by race in the crudest manner possible?

[Candy Cough]

yes come back to us when your main faction race has decimated its own planet, invaded another, then gotten another timeline to fix it and wrecked it again. All the while now having two warchiefs who have gone into a whole separate timeline in search of more world ending power. Not to mention making u suckers go on a war thinking its for the horde only to feed you to a hungering maw to gain more power. Also lets forget how Ogmot was infact talking about her "sheep followers" but say instead its about Alleria. Or you know lets also ignore what actual book lore says about what happened in Silithus but continue talking about Gann Stonespire because camp taurajo rings more than what happened at Stonetalon. Oh whats that? you forgot you bombed a convention of hippy druids? Or the march across northern kalimdor to teldrassil with astrannar filled with wisps and at the end of the war just going "but but but it wasnt me it was sylvanas! she made me do it" rings so much like " but but but, me not know, demons made me drink blood!"

honestly id make a paragraph but whats the point, since you couldnt read an actual book you wouldnt be able to read this. Its shameful that the current horde has degenerated into what the alliance was pre bc. whining and whining how the world does them wrong and itsssss juuuusssstttttt sooooooo unnnnffaaiiiiirrr.

The DRAENEI ruined Draenor, not the orcs. The orcs and the ogres literally had no concept og greater evil og that the legion even existed and instead of warning them the Draenei let the legion come to their doorstep and leave it a felshattered rock

[Minikin]

The DRAENEI ruined Draenor, not the orcs. The orcs and the ogres literally had no concept og greater evil og that the legion even existed and instead of warning them the Draenei let the legion come to their doorstep and leave it a felshattered rock

Oh yea the draenei sent orc children coloring books on how to best hold demon blood cups eh.

Pick one.

Either the horde is stupid beyond recognition to always fall for the "ohh nooo my warchief hoodwinked me, pls feel bad for my stupidity" or "yea I keep starting wars like everyone else but my shit stinks far more than anyone elses". Can't have both.

Which sucks for you cuz either your argument ends up failing or the faction narrative you keep pushing makes them look like goofs.

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How dare they not just lay down and apologize for their skulls damaging the orcs' axes?

Isn't it funny how one of the Hordies' main charges against the Alliance is racism, but they always lump characters together by race in the crudest manner possible?

How dare we not make a road out of bones paved across a whole zone just so we can teleport to another planet cuz we fed ours up!!!!

[Candy Cough]

1. Garrosh and sylvanas were both LEADERS OF THE HORDE and were accepted as leaderr until the very end, it was not until that one final straw they were dealt with, they did countless things with no problem

2. arthas was never part of the alliance, and the first action he took that was evil he was already kicked out of his throne.

3. daelin actually was legit, the horde WAS NOT to be trusted, if he had been allowed to do what he did, the world woulda been a lot better off, he was literally just a dude who did not trust the horde, rightfully so, and guess what, even then still killed.

4. garithos again not part of the alliance

5. scarlet crusade, not part of the alliance, they were part of the light, corrupted by the legion, literally not alliance, and the alliance even sends you to kill them.

6. massacre upon the amani? how is that a bad thing? do you forget what they were doing for literally thousands of thousands of years?

also what you talking about retcons?

Lmao you have Zero fucking clue what you are talking about. Zero

1. So was Arthas, Daelin and Garithos
2. Arthas was a part of the ALLIANCE OF LORDAERON. He genocided strathholme.
3. Lmao without the horde Either Archimonde or Deathwing would have destroyed the world.
4. Again, the leader of the remnants of lordaeron of THE ALLIANCE OF LORDAERON.

Lets look at how its built up

Alliance of Lordaeron
Its members was Lordaeron, Dalaran, Stormwind, Gnomeregan, Khaz modan, Quel thalas AND Kul’tiras

After Sylvanas killed Garithos, Quel’thalas was decimated, and Kul’tiras left, the Alliance of Lordaeron was REFORMED into the Alliance. Its a reason why the Alliance still uses the Lordaeron crest as their PvP symbol and on the Skybreaker

Just because Stormwind didnt appear in Warcraft 3 doesent mean they didnt exist. You think they defeated the orcs alone??

5. The alliance is as responsible for the Scarlet Crusade as Horde is for Garrosh and the True horde.

6. Lmao. Same could be said about Gilneas. Neither The Alliance or the horde liked them, only after night elves came to their rescue at the very end. But I guess it doesent matter since Genocide is never a crime unless its against an alliance race

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Oh yea the draenei sent orc children coloring books on how to best hold demon blood cups eh.

Pick one.

Either the horde is stupid beyond recognition to always fall for the "ohh nooo my warchief hoodwinked me, pls feel bad for my stupidity" or "yea I keep starting wars like everyone else but my shit stinks far more than anyone elses". Can't have both.

Which sucks for you cuz either your argument ends up failing or the faction narrative you keep pushing makes them look like goofs.

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How dare we not make a road out of bones paved across a whole zone just so we can teleport to another planet cuz we fed ours up!!!!

...Are you ...Are you serious?

I am just going to assume youre trollung because this is fucking insane to blame the orcs for this

The orcs are stupid axe wielding barbarians and were manipulated by Gul’dan and Dreadlords which are like, I dont know... master manipulators??? Into drinking blood

HAD THE DRAENEI NEVER CAME IN THE FIRST PLACE OR HAD AN OUNCE OF DECENCY TO WARN THE ORCS THEY WOULDNT HAVE DRANK THE BLOOD IN THE FIRST PLACE! THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF WARLORDS OF DRAENOR

[Minikin]

Lmao you have Zero fucking clue what you are talking about. Zero

...Are you ...Are you serious?

I am just going to assume youre trollung because this is fucking insane to blame the orcs for this

The orcs are stupid axe wielding barbarians and were manipulated by Gul’dan and Dreadlords which are like, I dont know... master manipulators??? Into drinking blood

HAD THE DRAENEI NEVER CAME IN THE FIRST PLACE OR HAD AN OUNCE OF DECENCY TO WARN THE ORCS THEY WOULDNT HAVE DRANK THE BLOOD IN THE FIRST PLACE! THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF WARLORDS OF DRAENOR

awesome.

you say orcs are stupid barbarians (hilarious as that is), then say they are manipulated by Guldan! I guess guldan was a hyper IQ pink unicorn that teleported in from planet X eh? you know, i should feel bad. initially i thought this thread was a perfect troll to rile people up, but instead I find you actually believe the stuff that you are posting.

so your original post starts with how its all ohhh sooo hypocritical, but the moment blame goes on your precious faction bias you immediately start blaming other items all the while having items like the scarlet crusade as part of your argument. Do you even know what hypocritical means?

oh and so the point of warlords of draenor was not drinking blood because the draenei should have warned the orcs eh? But you said they are stupid barbarians, what would that have done? Master Manipulator Lord Paramount Guldan who-is-not-an-orc-at-all, would have confounded the poor bastards anyway. I guess if we just PRETEND that even with an alternate timelines the orcs still in the end chose to drink the blood and wrecked Tanan it wont exist right?

i guess Sylvanas sending you out for war making you believe it was about the horde's survival and eventual peace with alliance, but secretly hoping you die out there so she feeds your characters screaming soul to some dude in the maw, seems all so much clear. Its hilarious that an ogre can predict what the horde is about to go through.

i guess you took your pick though. You chose that the horde is stupid instead of warmongering. GG.

[Imperium Romanum]

What exactly is hypocritical of the Explorer's League in these situations? On both circumstances their main goal is making their own surveys. The only difference is that they required aid on the second attempt.

I didn't know research organizations had to be holier than thou, but the whole feeling behind the thread's derailing makes it clear on what the problem is...

[LuminaL]

So when the Horde does that it's fine and all because the Alliance has no right to meddle with Horde affairs nor do they have any right to Silithus, but when the Alliance does that it's wrong and they should be attacked for it?

Someone else is hypocritical here...

becareful there, be very careful, you dont want them to use their superweapon; yea Im talking about camp tauraju.

[Candy Cough]

What exactly is hypocritical of the Explorer's League in these situations? On both circumstances their main goal is making their own surveys. The only difference is that they required aid on the second attempt.

I didn't know research organizations had to be holier than thou, but the whole feeling behind the thread's derailing makes it clear on what the problem is...

If the horde did it the alliance would have thrown a fucking riot but the alliance never take responseability for their actions

[LuminaL]

This comparison doesn't really work, tbh. Putting aside that Garithos, while a xenophobic jerk, didn't actually go out to genocide the remaining 10% of blood elves, there is a fundamental issue with this.

The alliance did not give Garithos orders to kill any bloodelves. Technically, nobody was giving him orders since he was de facto leader of the living people of Lordaeron. He was pretty much a warlord at that point, not a person in the alliance chain of command. Holding other alliance members accountable for his actions is kind of foolish because of that. At worst they are guilty of ignorance by sending him some reinforcements without observers that reported back to him. The alliance, by and large, did not even know what exactly Garithos was doing. And with his forces obliterated, they probably never got an account of what happened at all.

Meanwhile, Garrosh and Sylvanas were explicitly included in the Horde chain of command. They gave orders. The orders were followed. The Horde army cheered for Sylvanas when they marched towards Darkshore. In both cases, the Horde, as in a sizable portion of it, only started to fight back after they committed one atrocity too many, but the populace at large just accepted stuff like Teldrassil.

We really shouldn't consider these issues the same at all. One is a general of an allied nation doing stuff without supervision, the others are official actions ordered by the highest level of government. If Garithos had survived and the alliance had then not persecuted him for war crimes (if they were informed about them) you might have a point, but otherwise, it is a bit of a reach.

And another technicality: since you are comparing murder-sizes between Arthas when he was arguably still working for the alliance and Sylvanas there, you need to do it right. Arthas did not murder the whole population of Stratholme. And no, this isn't me going into the whole 'they were already bound to die by the plague, so it isn't murder' thing. I'm just talking the actual killing here. In both the WC3 mission and the Caverns of Time iteration, a large portion of the city is turned by Mal'Ganis. Naturally, performance in the mission is player-skill based, but it does stop after 100 kills, one way or another. And those kills don't even have to be of un-turned villagers, since players can wait for them to turn. Meanwhile, in the Caverns, Arthas kills only relatively few living people, with most enemies being already turned enemies. The murder count should probably be reduced to about 10k at best.
Still monstrous, obviously. But information needs to be handled correctly.

I also fail to understand why and how people who blame garithos suddenly forget he went there to organize high elves and the moment he blinks high elves become allies with 2 enemy factions, naga and demons.

also if not for the high elves POV people wouldnt blame garithos, he was there to organize high elf troops, but them being so fucking arrogant wanted humans to do everything and they didnt want to lift a finger as much of wiping their asses and since it didnt happen, suddenly garithos is bad guy there.

[Imperium Romanum]

If the horde did it the alliance would have thrown a fucking riot but the alliance never take responseability for their actions

Ah, it's not based on the Explorer's League NPC making a fuss about it, it's more on the player base. Got it.

I think either side is making a riot over the other's cruelty, regardless. It's just that the severe cruelty examples are far less on one side compared to the other. Or, to put it bluntly, the cruelties in plain focus are painted in a specific faction's colour.

[Shaetha]

also what you talking about retcons?

Don't you know? People only cry retcon when they were wrong and it was something that was clarified later.

[Minikin]

Don't you know? People only cry retcon when they were wrong and it was something that was clarified later.

i thought we collectively yelled TrAIToR!! at that point. or am i getting this whole thing wrong....

[Shaetha]

i thought we collectively yelled TrAIToR!! at that point. or am i getting this whole thing wrong....

I see no reason why it can't be both(for different reasons)

[Zuben]

The Explorers' League is a weird faction in that it's often in a neutral role, but it's also Alliance's equivalent to Horde's Reliquary.

[Mardux]

literally not what happened, the goblins were the one extracting the resource, the alliance then came to see whats up and their scouts were killed and any attempt to set up base was met with hostilities.

Speaking of "literally not what happened". Maybe you should at least read the stories before making shit up and looking like a fool.

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Don't you know? People only cry retcon when they were wrong and it was something that was clarified later.

They also tend to hell retcon when things are... y'know... retconned. Crazy thought, right.

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Ah, it's not based on the Explorer's League NPC making a fuss about it, it's more on the player base. Got it.

I think either side is making a riot over the other's cruelty, regardless. It's just that the severe cruelty examples are far less on one side compared to the other. Or, to put it bluntly, the cruelties in plain focus are painted in a specific faction's colour.

That would be because one side's playerbase produces gold-medal gymnastics in order to justify or straight up pretend their bad actions happened.

[Shaetha]

They also tend to hell retcon when things are... y'know... retconned. Crazy thought, right.

Except for the part where every part of the story that you don't experience firsthand is retcon, so it's kind of meaningless to mention. It goes hand-in-hand with a story that has more than one perspective. That was my point. People only complain about retcon when it makes them look at something differently. AKA, when it makes them wrong.

[Makabreska]

Is this yet another attempt of "Alliance started the war", and "Horde did nothing wrong"?