Why are there no new classes in Shadowlands?!

[unbound]

The problem is that every new class comes to some at expense of stealing features from existing classes which I think stinks. But as for some DH's specifically I don't care for that kind of speed in a tank.

It doesn't have to, but Blizz is too lazy to try to introduce anything new. Hence, DH only had 2 specs. New races are just lazy reskins with short stories.

Heck, it is actually rather amusing that Blizz advertised BfA as having all these amazing new races which, in addition to just being lazy reskins, aren't actually a feature of the expansion; they are reputation rewards only like pets and mounts.

[Nuggsy]

Idk about needing new classes but it would be cool if we could flavor existing classes/specs to 'be something else' aesthetically but exactly the same numbers/spell/play style wise. Maybe glyphs that change spell colors like for priests give them a glyph that turns all their gold spells white to be in line with Priestess of Elune stuff? Idk, just spitballing here.

[Ersula]

Because with the 2 active abilities & Passive tree, the Covenant system is essentially a multiclassing system. Really, it's just like the Legion Artifact but now you have some choice. But really, from this point on it makes more sense to just periodically create more specs for the existing classes than make more classes. Maybe an occasional hero class, but apparently now that they start at level 1 there's nothing inherently different about hero classes anymore besides you needing to do something to unlock them.

[Playintrafic]

The problem is that every new class comes to some at expense of stealing features from existing classes which I think stinks. But as for some DH's specifically I don't care for that kind of speed in a tank.

I don't really enjoy the tank spec. But the dps spec is a lot of fun. Wish more specs had a similar more action oriented, aim your abilities style of play.

Funny I didn't enjoy wildstars telegraphed abilities but I love dh despite not having a way to see exactly where your attacks will hit or how far you felrush will move you.

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Off topic, but Fel Rush is weirdly bugged (still is, has been since Legion launch) that you'd use Fel Rush but not move a single inch, in any direction. And sometimes you could Fel Rush and be sent all across the room.

Fel rushed off the mage tower last night and damn near flew into the cathedral district.

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Off topic, but Fel Rush is weirdly bugged (still is, has been since Legion launch) that you'd use Fel Rush but not move a single inch, in any direction. And sometimes you could Fel Rush and be sent all across the room.

Fel rushed off the mage tower last night and damn near flew into the cathedral district.

[Nagawithlegs]

That would kinda make sense and they don't do that at bli$$ard anymore.

Considering how much money that would've made, "Bli$$ard" clearly didn't do it for some reason, a reason that trumped the stupid amount of money they would've made. They have hinted at a death class still happening in the future so...

Imagine calling a company "Bli$$ard" and also complaining that they didn't do something that would've made them money.

[Malix Farwin]

Why do we need a new class every other expansion, though? Is there a point where we have too many classes to balance properly?

Nope because there will always be a spec at the top and a spec at the bottom. If adding new classes wasnt the move, adding a new spec to existing classes would of been nice.

You can compare even FFXIV to WoW and can see that rule and it has far less classes/specs..

[crakerjack]

I'd love to know what percentage of those demanding a new class have actually played every single spec this game has to offer? Specifically in end game content where you have your full toolkit. As someone who has 1 or more characters at max level for every class, I can safely say there are enough options out there to cater to anyone's playstyle. I personally haven't tried every spec, but I'm pretty close to it. It's kind of like that overly materialistic preppy kids you knew back in high school. They're always demanding the new iphone or some new piece of technology, only to look at it a couple years later and think of it the same as their previous phones/technology.

Think about it this way, imagine instead of demon hunters, monks or DK's, how many abilities you have in a pool that you then can apply to other classes. Warriors very easily could have gotten death grip, instead make it some barbaric chain w/ a hook that snags enemies and rips them back towards the warrior. What about roll? That could have been a rogue ability since rogues are elusive and dodge their way through the battlefield. Eye beam? That could have become fire beam where a mage charges a fire beam at enemies infront of them and applies ignite along w/ critting.

Obviously now it's too late to remove these additional classes from the game, but that mindset of applying new/unique abilities to current classes is totally a viable mindset. If people want something new purely for the sake of it being new, then those players shouldn't be listened to in the first place. Enhance shamans went the ENTIRE expansion without any rework. They were expected to get their rework along with shadow priests in 8.1.5, but it fell through.

[goldentforce]

Nope because there will always be a spec at the top and a spec at the bottom. If adding new classes wasnt the move, adding a new spec to existing classes would of been nice.

You can compare even FFXIV to WoW and can see that rule and it has far less classes/specs..

Adding new specs to a classes is just as much work as adding a new class, and theres plenty of specs that are already overshadowed by other specs in the game. It honestly feels like new race/new class is just a hook for some people to buy the game. I get its a breath of fresh air but nobody plays all specs in the game, especially in BFA. And people who say "balance" is the issue for making new classes its not damage balance but gameplay balance. To even make the demon hunter demonology warlock had to be re-imagined, and Im sure for a shadowlands expansion any dark ranger or necromancer would impede heavily on existing classes.

I just think SL is the wrong time for a class, especially with the unpruning and continuation of temporary class design moving forward personally. DH can't even benefit from the unpruning cause they haven't lost anything and were designed in a pruning world. I think its important they get class design right this time, and im sure 100% percent that the next expansion will have a new class, because its such an easy talking and interest point that not having so long would definitely not get max earnings.

[KridenTagg]

I have to admit I was pretty disappointed that we didn't get a new class announcement, especially considering the rumors were strongly hinting towards one. No new class plus a potential lack of content in this upcoming expansion has me hoping that we get a strong story at least. I'm bracing for the worst.

[Malix Farwin]

Adding new specs to a classes is just as much work as adding a new class, and theres plenty of specs that are already overshadowed by other specs in the game. It honestly feels like new race/new class is just a hook for some people to buy the game. I get its a breath of fresh air but nobody plays all specs in the game, especially in BFA. And people who say "balance" is the issue for making new classes its not damage balance but gameplay balance. To even make the demon hunter demonology warlock had to be re-imagined, and Im sure for a shadowlands expansion any dark ranger or necromancer would impede heavily on existing classes.

I just think SL is the wrong time for a class, especially with the unpruning and continuation of temporary class design moving forward personally. DH can't even benefit from the unpruning cause they haven't lost anything and were designed in a pruning world. I think its important they get class design right this time, and im sure 100% percent that the next expansion will have a new class, because its such an easy talking and interest point that not having so long would definitely not get max earnings.

You didnt really address anything or said nor did you formulate a counter argument. You are saying "I just think SL is the wrong time for a class," with no valid reason to support your argument. Why exactly did you reply to me if you were going to do the bare minimum. A lot of your arguments make no sense because they already said class changes were going to be small going into SL, all specs are watered downed, and classes come with mroe than 1 spec so how would adding a spec to an existing class be " just as much work as adding a new class". You are just saying words and they don't actually make sense.

They done more in other expansion. Heck MoP they completely revamped SEVERAL Classes while also adding a New Class with THREE Specs. That kills your whole argument right there.

Edit: Heck Legion saw a major overal of classes as well on TOP of the Artifact system while STILL adding a new Class.

[goldentforce]

You didnt really address anything or said nor did you formulate a counter argument. You are saying "I just think SL is the wrong time for a class," with no valid reason to support your argument. Why exactly did you reply to me if you were going to do the bare minimum. A lot of your arguments make no sense because they already said class changes were going to be small going into SL, all specs are watered downed, and classes come with mroe than 1 spec so how would adding a spec to an existing class be " just as much work as adding a new class". You are just saying words and they don't actually make sense.

They done more in other expansion. Heck MoP they completely revamped SEVERAL Classes while also adding a New Class with THREE Specs. That kills your whole argument right there.

Edit: Heck Legion saw a major overal of classes as well on TOP of the Artifact system while STILL adding a new Class.

So to clarify my point, I understand the appeal of the new but I don't think it's realistic with the amount of tasks they are taking on this time. I think BFA was the biggest failure in class design and changes yet, and I think it's a result of temporary gameplay design made in legion. You had the negative result of artifacts and legendaries in addition to just a straight system failure replacement in azerite. I think they thought they could get away with little class design and got punished for it, had to panic and make classes work in a couple weeks late in BFA, and was a huge problem to BFA.

My issue is I don't know if they learned the lesson on temporary gameplay design because it is continuing with conduits/covenants/legendaries for SL. Unpruning is nice but it doesn't completely fix the issues and giving back what was taken isn't the same as fixing the broken classes. They haven't said they are revamping any specs or the level of class changes in general, and I'm already worried that the core work isn't being done to an acceptable level.

Now at why I don't think a new class is the right time despite many other expansions having a lot of class changes is that this expansion is when so much of the game failed across the board. The gearing system and expansion features completely failed in azerite, warfronts, and islands. The m+ , world quests, war campaign, and most of end game content were worse versions of the legion systems and they didn't really iterate. In addition the background of blizzard isn't the same with the staff cuts and Corona now, I think so much of the game needs to be done right this time that every system needs more work especially the overall end game experience that I'm worried in general on changes to base classes outside of the unpruning (which is an easy community win ) that them designing a whole new class that could step on the feet of other specs and need class changes is just too many fronts to work on.

Mop isn't really fair in my opinion because it was really the last expansion following the iterative flow of previous expansions in terms of how the overall game played, and rode a relative high in terms of the games overall performance and need of change that a new class wasn't that much of a toll. Even though, the monk is one of the least player classes and had many changes done after. Legion on the other hand is a much more fair critical argument because so much of the game changed in terms of the temporary gameplay system, what wows endgame looked like, and them "revisualizing" classes after some pruning work out in wod. My guess is they still had a lot of team members in the background and knew that if this expansion didn't succeed wow could just die, they tried as many player friendly moves such as a new class to pull people back in, and it was only 2 specs which is certainly less work, and specs are way more bare in the legion form. I think shown by the result of legion and bfa, and success of classic and microtransactions the same fear isn't there for SL despite bfa being one of the worst expansions.

I'm personally worried about classes in general because it feels like the temporary design system is something they are holding onto that hearing there was no new class didn't really bother me because I don't think the current game design of classes is in the best of place that a class designed in this space could suffer. I brought up the example of demon Hunter because the demon Hunter one isn't the most deep class and has a really thin kit, and with the unpruning beefing class kits, is the demon Hunter going to get new stuff to act similarly to the goal of the unpruning. I doubt it because it seems like the unpruning is less class design and more of a goal to win over players with more class thematic tools and isn't that hard cause the spells were already made and just have to be readded. I'm unsure how much room they have to take on more projects because it seems like the whole endgame experience is being looked at for SL , and compared to most expansions, shadow lands blizzcon had very little to show and more to talk about, that I don't know how much of the work they could even show at that point, let alone show a new class. I think there's a lot of work needed for SL and I don't think a new class really helps outside of something people would want to try as something new. I think it's better a new class is added when the game is more stable in terms of overall game design which is hopefully next expansion, and I would rather they make the game as enjoyable as possible and fix current problems than add something new and have design time on a class that doesn't help make the game as better as other dev time could, such as on specs and classes people already have attachment to.

[Rogue Karl]

You can argue there are to many classes as it is.

[Kurrelurre]

You can argue there are to many classes as it is.

Problem is if you want to add new flavors without new class you would have to give 4 specs, or remove one.
So maybe they should just make the Battlemage (tank) mage specialization and take away Arcane.
Then they could take away arms from warrior and do the Barbarian.
Lock demo then has to be replaced with Necromancer.
Then say goodbye to Enchancement shammy and welcome the Witchdoctor.
Finally, Rogue Subtlety unfortunately has to go; and make way for the Alchemist, a potionslinging healer.

[Rogue Karl]

Problem is if you want to add new flavors without new class you would have to give 4 specs, or remove one.
So maybe they should just make the Battlemage (tank) mage specialization and take away Arcane.
Then they could take away arms from warrior and do the Barbarian.
Lock demo then has to be replaced with Necromancer.
Then say goodbye to Enchancement shammy and welcome the Witchdoctor.
Finally, Rogue Subtlety unfortunately has to go; and make way for the Alchemist, a potionslinging healer.

I honestly think it would be better to make existing specs differ from one another more currently. Some classes get it right but on the whole things feel to samey for my taste.

I also can't really see many opening for dps roles left that the engine could support well without then being copy pasted from another class. I know mechanic was spammed for a while as a new class but I can't see how you can balance turrets without them being op or worthless.

[Malix Farwin]

The thing is though, all those points were due to design choices made in BFA and not other expansions. Removing those things do not exactly take a lot of time. In fact what actually takes a lot of time and energy when designing a new Class is the resources it uses. It actually takes more effort to fix a class than to introduce a new one because when making a new class you do not have to factor in things players like about a current class and can build it from the ground up. Ignoring MoP we could use Legion as an example with Demon Hunter. The Artifact System took much more work than the current temporary system we have in place(azerite armor) but each and every spec in the entire game needed weapons tailored specifically for them and on top of all that they were able to make a new class whos weapons also needed to do the same thing.

The things they have to fix because of BfA on top of the systems they have in store for Shadowlands fails in comparison to the things they had to do going into Legion but they still pulled off a new Class. Then of course you still have to bear in mind that that are unpuning, this is NOT making that much of impact on classes. Fire mages being able to use a frost spell doesnt mean they will suddenly start using them in their rotation or Shadow Priest getting Flash Heal back doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things. Even if it were to grand them some power in PvP they would just be tuned down to where it didnt matter for balance reason. Class work overall will be less than what we saw in Legion(and possibly as bad if not worse than BFA) and the rental system they have planned is weaker than Legions but they managed to add a new class into it.

When they say they will not be many Class changes in Shadowlands and they show off covenant abilities that are meh how could you expect them to do the work on classes that would warrant not having a new Class or spec when literally the last xpac did way more work on both.

I mean its pretty obvious why 1 xpac was successful and 1 wasnt.

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You can argue there are to many classes as it is.

I'd disagree. If you wanted to make that argument then you would think vanilla number of classes are too much. But i mean people who typically say one liners like this cant explain "why" they believe this is true in the first place.