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  1. #41
    I, personally, liked WoD because I am raider first and WoD had excellent raids AND I could just raidlog too. Which of course was an issue for a sizeable chunk of the population, as the world aside from initial experience ended up being meaningless.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    The problem with WoD was, that somewhere during Mists the majority of the developer A team who were responsible for WoW were moved to develop what was then published as Overwatch.

    The WoW team in turn got a lot of devs from the failed Diablo3, which explains the increased "Diablofication" of WoW. The new devs were more or less just thown into the cold water, thus couldn't deliver the usual amount and quality of content a seasoned WoW dev could.
    Gonna need something that remotely resembles a source on that, buddy.

    Why they are still bad at delivering polished quality content remains a mystery.
    "I don't like it therefore it sucks." Nice opinion.

  3. #43
    Banned Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Steward View Post
    What was cut was a big enough issue on its own, but how they dealt with it only magnified the problems. I was thinking of Tanaan. At the announcement it was on the world map, and that was where they said Farahlon would be coming in a later patch. The announcement that Tanaan would not be in-game at launch came months later, and then they tried to turn around and say that had always been the plan. Ok... so why didn't you say so in the same conversation where you revealed the map and told us Farahlon was coming in a later patch? If you knew Tanaan would ALSO be coming in a later patch wasn't that the exact time to say so? Or did you mess up, and hope in all the uproar about Farahlon getting cut, faction hubs changing to Ashran, Garrisons no longer being able to be placed in any zone, and so on that nobody would notice being deliberately dishonest about Tanaan?

    I mean in the grand scheme of the expansion this is a minor thing, but it's a great example of the dishonest/misleading communication an unhappy playerbase was getting on top of features getting cut left and right.
    I really "liked" the whole "we neve rpromised you getting karabor and bladespire" when in the presentation for wod that wa sone of the big fucking features...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Cool how some people can answer with 10 lines to something incomprehensible as:

    "Why did WoD fail so hard even though Siege of Orgrimmar lasted for 2 years?
    Like how does that work? "

    This is nonsensical. What does that even mean?
    Well it means they had shitton of time when they weren't developing any more content for MOP so that's supposedly the time they were supposed to develop more content for WOD... which didn't happen. Also it was 1 year not 2 but w/e.

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    They'll never admit it but I firmly believe they saw how quickly WoD shed its initial surge in subscribers and left the expansion on terminal life support while they refocused their creative efforts on making sure a rise/fall in subscribers like WoD's never happened again.
    WOD had a massive sub drop off because of 1) technical mega fail where the game was unplayable for a week, lags, dcs, garrisons not loading, and so forth, 2) 6.1 being a patch with nothing in it except belf models (ok there were some skimpy amounts of quests but not much) 3) missing at least 1 major patch and 1-2 minor patches to be a full fledged expansion.

    If there was a proper mid xpac patch with Shattrath hub + raid and Farahlon, but no, we got half an expac for a price of one.

    You could say it was a self fulfilling prophecy, people left due to no content, so even less content was developed?

    There's also the problem of dealing with technical debt: phasing / garrison tech and new models were coming behind schedule, both with bugs, it was a bumpy road for them. Basically the same thing that crippled Anthem, EA told Bioware to develop on an engine that was lacking so they spent more time fighting with the tech than actually developing the game, so it came out poor and unfinished and content starved.
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2019-12-05 at 10:48 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Gonna need something that remotely resembles a source on that, buddy.
    That's Blizzard history for anyone who cares to know it. Jeff Kaplan and Chris Metzen are prominent examples, also they took most of the character animation team.


    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    "I don't like it therefore it sucks." Nice opinion.
    The poorly designed features and bugs all over the place speak volumes. WoW never really had polished content after MoP.
    If they have to completely overhaul a core system of an xpac (HoA) mid xpac, I'd say they haven't thought the whole thing through to begin with. Things of this scale never happened with the old dev team.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    I'm not sure that you mean. WoD actually had an incredible succes when it first launched, it was after the first quarter that subs started to go rapidly:

    People were excited for WoD because they were tired of MoP's theme and wanted to see WoW return to its roots, and WoD was generally seen as a TBC 2.0
    It didnt have "Incredible success it quite literallt matched MoP numbers at launch and quickly dropped off. Xpacs spike numbers at launch much like BfA did.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Well it means they had shitton of time when they weren't developing any more content for MOP so that's supposedly the time they were supposed to develop more content for WOD... which didn't happen. Also it was 1 year not 2 but w/e.

    WOD had a massive sub drop off because of 1) technical mega fail where the game was unplayable for a week, lags, dcs, garrisons not loading, and so forth, 2) 6.1 being a patch with nothing in it except belf models (ok there were some skimpy amounts of quests but not much) 3) missing at least 1 major patch and 1-2 minor patches to be a full fledged expansion.

    If there was a proper mid xpac patch with Shattrath hub + raid and Farahlon, but no, we got half an expac for a price of one.

    You could say it was a self fulfilling prophecy, people left due to no content, so even less content was developed?

    There's also the problem of dealing with technical debt: phasing / garrison tech and new models were coming behind schedule, both with bugs, it was a bumpy road for them. Basically the same thing that crippled Anthem, EA told Bioware to develop on an engine that was lacking so they spent more time fighting with the tech than actually developing the game, so it came out poor and unfinished and content starved.
    While everything you're saying is true, the graph only shows the first quarter of WoD. We have no idea exactly how bad it got (though I don't think it's a conservative estimate to say it continued the downward trend). I think that's the exact Blizzard HQ pressed the "Oh shit" button and from the ashes of what WoD was supposed to be, we got the much more casual-friendly Legion.

  8. #48
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    What is it like, living on a planet with a 7-month year?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    That's Blizzard history for anyone who cares to know it. Jeff Kaplan and Chris Metzen are prominent examples, also they took most of the character animation team.
    "Everybody who cares already knows the story" isn't a source.

    The poorly designed features and bugs all over the place speak volumes. WoW never really had polished content after MoP.
    If they have to completely overhaul a core system of an xpac (HoA) mid xpac, I'd say they haven't thought the whole thing through to begin with. Things of this scale never happened with the old dev team.
    All of WotLK's initial raid content was cleared in the first week of its launch. The only remotely difficult encounter was Sarth 3D and even that was a bit of a snooze fest. I really don't know how you can say everything post-WoD "lacks polish" when one of Blizzard's most universally revered expansions had almost zero content at launch.

  10. #50
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Well it means they had shitton of time when they weren't developing any more content for MOP so that's supposedly the time they were supposed to develop more content for WOD... which didn't happen. Also it was 1 year not 2 but w/e.
    So where is the "Why did Cata fail so hard, when ICC lasted 2 years" thread? (I know that ICC lasted "only" 13 months, but OP didn't care to be precise, just threw out his claims for a nice bait and boy did it work)


  11. #51
    It lasted for 1 year and 2 months but I think much of failure of WoD had to do with how the garrison was implemented and that there was a general lack of things to do in the open world.

  12. #52
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    Time travel and ruining any sense of the story made ppl cba anymore, it was beyond confusing. Combine it with refreshing the questfinder to hop into raids doing the daily quests made it mindnumbingly boring

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So where is the "Why did Cata fail so hard, when ICC lasted 2 years" thread? (I know that ICC lasted "only" 13 months, but OP didn't care to be precise, just threw out his claims for a nice bait and boy did it work)

    Well tbh with Cata I'd attribute it to the massive workload that was world revamp, both graphical and all the questing experience 1-60. So yeah, it's a legit question with a legit answer.

    That's why every time there's a thread popping about world / levelling revamp or "WOW2" I always think "fuck no" (especially the overused idea about "open world sandbox game with action combat"), it would do much more damage than benefit.

  14. #54
    In WoD they tried to cut costs by having only two raid tiers, and dungeons were utterly irrelevant.

    There were also a few systems that people had tolerated in MOP but were wearing thin by WoD. The legendary questline, where you inevitably ended up spending 2 months running LFR on your alts in order to catch up on the legendary, was a huge grindy waste of time to make up for the irrelevance of dungeons. People dealt with it in MoP but by WoD they were done. Similar story for Tanaan, which was basically a far worse version of Timeless Isle.

    They also split the playerbase irreversibly by removing flying. Whether or not you think the move was a good one for gameplay, it was a disaster for the community. The people advocating that flying be removed were few and far between in MOP. By removing it, they created a basically permanent split between those who like flying and those who hate it that causes debate to this day. Adding in Pathfinder was terrible too. I had leveled in dungeons and had to go back and do the pointless loremaster crap.

    WoD was also when the story really jumped the shark. The whole "there are infinite worlds but finite Sargerases" thing etc. just got whittled down to "don't think too hard about this, it's nonsense". Then suddenly Grommash on our side yelling "Draenor is free"? Cata and MoP had basic, fine storylines. WoD's was silly, and everything since has been silly too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    WoD was also when the story really jumped the shark. The whole "there are infinite worlds but finite Sargerases" thing etc. just got whittled down to "don't think too hard about this, it's nonsense". Then suddenly Grommash on our side yelling "Draenor is free"? Cata and MoP had basic, fine storylines. WoD's was silly, and everything since has been silly too.
    OP Pandas and Generic Bad Guy Gets Corrupted By An Old God (Again) is okay BUT I DRAW THE LINE at time travel."

    Okay, you do you dude.

  16. #56
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    wow im glad i did not play that for 2 years.

    SoG is pure garbage

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Steward View Post
    Blizzard also opened WoD by lying about what zones were going to be included, then lying about lying about it, so it didn't exactly get off to a great start.
    stuff got cut out,happens everytime,if im not mistaken vanila had by far the most cut content and no1 complains,wrath had some,cata had a bunch etc

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    OP Pandas and Generic Bad Guy Gets Corrupted By An Old God (Again) is okay BUT I DRAW THE LINE at time travel."

    Okay, you do you dude.
    garrosh wasnt corrupted,and atleast mop had consistant content and the lore was atleast in universe and made sense

  18. #58
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    Soo didnt last 2 years...
    14 months is not 2 years...
    hellfire citidal lasted just as long.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  19. #59
    The Lightbringer Eugenik's Avatar
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    WoD was an end to another generation of WoW. WoD wasnt bad, it was the last time PvP was good.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

    Eugenik - Tchondrius

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Steward View Post
    Blizzard also opened WoD by lying about what zones were going to be included, then lying about lying about it, so it didn't exactly get off to a great start.
    no they didnt lie.
    they spoke their implications
    and sadly that didnt make it.

    by your logic they lie every single expansion.
    no, they REALLY want it to be in the game, thats why they tell us.
    but it doesernt allways make it

    vanilla, outland, necromancers, demon hunters, dragon isles.
    Demon hunters literally were on the box, and dragon isles at the announcement.

    wotlk runecrafting, ariel pvp combat, which literally made it onto the box, i have mine right here, always laugh, that even to this day we don't have aerial pvp.

    cata, path of titans

    mop upgraded guild levels

    wod farahlon, tower of time, ogre empire

    legion the island thingy cant remember name

    bfa... actualy idk? i dont think anything we learned about gut cut.

    shadowlands... umm yeh


    those are just the ones i can think off off the top of my headf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

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