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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    OP Pandas and Generic Bad Guy Gets Corrupted By An Old God (Again) is okay BUT I DRAW THE LINE at time travel."

    Okay, you do you dude.
    Sure. How can you not see that a time travel/infinite universes storyline causes massive consistency issues that don't exist in a storyline that basically says, "primitive civilization discovers new continent." I'm not saying it was amazing, but it wasn't silly. Wod's storyline was silly, and Legion doubled down by adding in tons of spaceships with a planet sized big bad.

    Surprised that you can't see how the two are totally different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  2. #62
    1) Wasted development time on garrison options that didn't make it into the game (multiple locations for building)
    2) Scrapping the opening scenario
    3) (Re)moving the originally planned capitals

    Mismanagement overall. No wonder Tom Chilton left the team since he was the lead at that time. Hazzikostas took his position for the Legion development and "maintaining" WoD.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    2 - WoD lacked patches. What if Legion ended after Kil'jaeden's defeat and we skipped straight to BfA? That's less content updates per xpac, making the game more expensive since you would need to buy the next expansion to continue at max lvl.
    There was meant to be a mid-tier patch with a Shattrath raid which would have actually connected the Legion bit of the expansion to the Orc bit. It's more like if instead of Tomb of Sargeras we got the Legionfall campaign and then a cutscene following Kil'jaeden back to Argus with Illidan disenchanting him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada

  4. #64
    Brewmaster Oakshana's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
    Currently 47°, -122° ... Originally 53°, -9°
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I think their implication is that the SoO being out for so long should have meant that WoD should have had more work done on it.

    As I said in my post above (refer to it for more detail,) a lot of work WAS done on WoD. It's just that a lot of that work was ultimately for naught.
    100% true. And 100% of it was annoying and frustrating. Somewhat (for me at least) for the cut content, but I think a bit part of the anger was because it was a very strong example of how the devs and designers just simply were not listening to their playerbase and it was the first significant time they flipped us all the bird and shoved what they wanted down our throats.

    I think also this was the point that Ghostcrawler departed and Ion took over? Which speaks volumes.

    But, on topic... yeah. Pretty much most end game raids since Wrath have lasted nearly, if not, a year. But that 2 years comment from OP is nonsense.

  5. #65
    How does your crazy math come up with SOO lasting 2 years?

  6. #66
    WoD was the worst expansion, IMO. The first "content" patch was absolutely laughable. The expansion started off promising, then making the garrison one of the prime focuses was where shit went terribly wrong. I felt that Highmaul was actually one of the better introductory raids out of all the expansions if not the best of them all. The story line began good and eroded almost immediately with the garrison patch. Players were bored and didn't want to play "mobile" in an MMO so they unsubbed. I want the dumb ass mission table concept that has been lingering around since WoD removed. It's tedious and now it's extremely unrewarding to boot.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshana View Post
    Didn't ICC also last roughly a year?
    I went and looked into each expansion. Here's how long each was from last raid to launch of next expansion.

    Classic -> BC: Naxxramas for ~7 months.
    BC -> WotLK: Sunwell for ~8 months.
    WotLK -> Cata: Icecrown Citadel for ~12 months. Ruby Sanctum for ~6 months, but I wouldn't count that as a tier.
    Cata -> MoP: Dragon Soul for ~10 months.
    MoP -> WoD: Siege of Orgrimmar for ~14 months.
    WoD -> Legion: Hellfire Citadel for ~14 months.
    Legion -> BFA: Antorus for ~9 months. (patch came out earlier, but raid wasn't open until later)

    If you're more interested in the length of things, I made a google sheet a little bit ago that shows number of days between raids/expansions/tiers/final tier-xpac launch. Whenever I get curious about stuff, I add more tabs to the bottom and add more data to it.

  8. #68
    WoD was a great expansion if you liked PvP. There were some balance issues here and there but overall I enjoyed it more than Legion and BfA.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Sure. How can you not see that a time travel/infinite universes storyline causes massive consistency issues that don't exist in a storyline that basically says, "primitive civilization discovers new continent." I'm not saying it was amazing, but it wasn't silly. Wod's storyline was silly, and Legion doubled down by adding in tons of spaceships with a planet sized big bad.

    Surprised that you can't see how the two are totally different.
    ...I don't. The issue I have is that WoW's story has always been second string to the content itself so disliking WoD for "jumping the shark" when the story up to that point wasn't exactly anything to write home about seems a bit disingenuous. But, like, that's just my opinion man.

  10. #70
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    WoD didn't fail, merely its patch cycles did fail. WoD could have been great, if not for content cut. There are detailed vids about this on Youtube.

    1 thing was done right in WoD that perhaps many players did miss, its called PvP. WoD was totally a PvP addon. I do not think Ashran was great, but the classes played fluently in PvP, there was meaningful pvp gear and vendors, stuff died, too - unlike in MoP everything, but s12 rogues were immortal.

    Whats not so cool, besides time shenigan time traveller lore, and lack of content patches, and gutted content from the get go, was the pruning.

    It certainly wasn't the best addon, but its not the worst for me all things considered. If i would only do PvE WoD would be the worst addon, ofc.

    It could have been much better, if blizz decided to bring cross realms sooner into endgame zones, because that way, Draenor was empty, it wasn't just a garission issue. You never met a player of the opposing faction in Draenor.(unlike cross realm mirror planet outland,still huge battles between faction armies at the dark portal at the time)

    Actually, if done right without the huge content cuts, WoD could have been one of the best addons. The potential was there, but blizzard wasted it.

    Also i want add those graphs how many subs an addon had during its lifecycle won't really give much good information.

    MoP started out rather weak, the best thing here were the class changes that were done rather well in most cases(not rogues, but druid, lock, spriest)

    But the content was rather uninteresting, ToT and SoO certainly changed that, that was high quality content and very enjoyable on par with what we saw with ulduar and ICC in wrath.(ofc garrosh cannot replace arthas, tho, but SoO was fun)

    So, ultimately, the question is fully answered here, why wod failed hard:

    Its a pity, really, but thats how it is.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2019-12-06 at 12:33 AM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Cool how some people can answer with 10 lines to something incomprehensible as:

    "Why did WoD fail so hard even though Siege of Orgrimmar lasted for 2 years?
    Like how does that work? "

    This is nonsensical. What does that even mean?
    Reading comprehension.

    If SoO lasted for over a year, why did WoD feel so rushed and content-dry? They had plenty of time to make more content by stretching the end of MoP out as long as they did.

    That isn't hard to understand imo.

  12. #72
    Because WoD had absolutely zero things to do in the world other than the worthless Apexis dailies, even Taanan offered nothing of value past a week. (Other than a few mount drops)

  13. #73
    Wish Blizzard would just admit what went wrong during WoD's development.......stop being so secretive(or just proud of that shit). Like all they have to do is confirm the development was a mess.....not reveal anything else.

    Any ex employees who worked on WoD......spill the beans.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    It had a different feeling. with garnision everyone was sitting alone in garnision instead of main city.
    Far to many World Quest and then they announced it as no fly addon

  15. #75
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Steward View Post
    Blizzard also opened WoD by lying about what zones were going to be included, then lying about lying about it, so it didn't exactly get off to a great start.
    Add the whole flying drama to that, and you have a recipe for disaster.
    "This world is a prison!"

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    SoO only lasted 1 year 1 month, not 2 years. In WoD, HFC also lasted 1 year 1 month, but there was no content before HFC for about a year also. 6.1's "Content Patch" was Twitter Integration and no content.
    Point of fact though, we the players expect the minor version (1.x) patches to be "content" patches even though in Vanilla a few patches had no content like we expect (Patch 1.4 had a few class-specific quests and 1.10 was "weather"). Blizzard happens to have lined up with that for the most part though with minor patches usually containing a raid at minimum. So we have come to expect it.

    Blizzard follows semantic versioning though which means the things they added in Patch 6.1 are correctly part of a minor version as they " functionality in a backwards compatible manner". This also explains why Azerite would not be scrapped until 9.0 regardless because major versions are where one makes "incompatible API changes".

    It was not until Legion they started to break with Sem Ver with things zone scaling being added in Patch 7.3.5 because x.y.z patches are for backwards compatible bug fixed

  17. #77
    WoD is one of my favorites merely because leveling content (huge jump in quality), beautiful zones/music, interesting initial garriAshran (fun with a premade), and Tanaan. It recaptured that Warcraft vibe that I wanted back and instantly fell in love.

    It's also one of my least favorite because of the massive amount of scrapped content (Shattrath raid, southern ogre area, faction capitals, etc), thrown away story, garrison madness, and shit patches. It's such a weird spot to both like and dislike this expansion.

    Also, the scrapping of content and lackluster patches was due to them wanting to move to yearly expansions, not the drop (there's always been a drop). But they found out they still couldn't do that and finally stopped saying that's their goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephi5315 View Post
    "A delayed game can be good, but a rushed game will always be bad." - Shigeru Myamoto
    That isn't the quote, it's "A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is bad forever." Further, this doesn't apply to a online PC game, which Miyamoto gave clarity in a Star Fox Zero interview. WoD had high review ratings and was universally liked. It was the end game and announced patches that created the drop off. It's similar to BFA except BFA had terrible systems and a focus on story without proper story progression.

  18. #78
    WoD "failed" because there was no incentive to run dungeons, ever, after your initial gear runs.

    PvP was killed halfway through the expansion with the forced introduction of PvP stat templates; this killed twinking AND max level PvP instantly. Your gear, and all of the effort put into getting it, was nullified utterly.

    Mythic raids were amazing, but the class balance was so absurdly unbalanced it was literally impossible to progress against certain bosses if you did not have a certain quota of class/specs. Blackrock Foundry was a perfect example of this, where Aspect of the Fox wasn't just encouraged, it was completely MANDATORY for some bosses. Not just one, but two at the absolute minimum, with 3 as an ideal. We lost 2 hunters to real life the first night of Kromog progression and got stuck for over a month until one more could come back. Imagine trying to do Blackhand with just 1. (Even dumber so was that Aspect of the Fox was removed, and encounters were not rebalanced around this.)

    I actually really liked Warlords of Draenor's dungeons and raids, but the reward for investing yourself to anything but your mission table was practically nothing.

  19. #79
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Because it had nothin other than raiding as content.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  20. #80
    High Overlord Ivank0v's Avatar
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    Apr 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    wotlk runecrafting, ariel pvp combat, which literally made it onto the box, i have mine right here, always laugh, that even to this day we don't have aerial pvp
    Don't forget about new dance moves.
    Be polite. Be professional. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    Most of you are morons.

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