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  1. #121
    For me, WoD started so poorly, the bad taste in my mouth just lasted the entire expac. The 1st 2 weeks, the game was literally unplayable, crazy long queues, when you got to character list, game crashed. I persnally loved garrisons, I made so much gold, I couldn't believe they let it go so long before nerfed it to the ground, some days I was making 75k gold a day for logging in on 11 toons for 5 minutes each. Doesn't sound like much to some, but it adds up fast.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Except the heirlooms interface; the trader/raid quest/Harrison quest/profession quests in your garrison; the music box and the rolls to hunt down; new follower missions including for the BRF raid; numerous class changes; a follower for completing the ring questline; new battle pets in BC raids; item fixes to make transmog easier, etc.

    Yeah. It was literally nothing but Twitter. /s
    I shouldn't have used the word "literally" but I don't need to defend my stance. There is no argument for 6.1 being anything but a complete and utter failure of a major patch. It should have been a 6.0.x patch. Blizzard had implemented system changes involving integrations/new UI/updated models/etc. in 0.0.x patches before. They should have done it again. People all over the place were talking about how they were quitting WoW because they weren't going to pay $15/mo for that to be a major patch. A few people were even worried that Blizzard was running out of content "clearly" so they should quit before the game starts sucking even more.

    It being a minor patch wouldn't have changed how much content WoD got, obviously, but some psychological thing in people's heads ticked when a major patch came out and that is what it was.

  3. #123
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    Garrisons was the primary focus of the game, outside of your weekly raid there was very little to do once you had finished your garrison
    And half of the raiding content was cut on top of that... WoD had all the hallmarks for potential yet failed to deliver due to development resources being siponed away from it as it launched. What we ended up with was Legion; and tbh, aside from the Legiondaries issue, was much better conceptually than it had any right to be.
    Fod Sparta los wuth, ahrk okaaz gekenlok kruziik himdah, dinok fent kos rozol do daan wah jer do Samos. Ahrk haar do Heracles fent motaad, fah strunmah vonun fent yolein ko yol
    .

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    The excuse they gave was that they increased the development team a massive amount and had to teach everyone the Blizzard software since it's unique. The reality is that they scrapped the initial idea behind Warlords and ended up having to build the expansion over 7 months(the first iteration of alpha was actually bare of almost everything).
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    What? WoD did great.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Mferna View Post
    There’s a lot more to do then there was in WoD besides raiding. Mythic plus are actually enjoyable content, and PvP is lit too. The rest of the features are pretty pointless. But I feel like most people who bash the game for having nothing to do, don’t do mythic + content and it’s a huge part of endgame for a lot of ppl.
    i dont bash the game, i just said theres nothing for me personaly to do, im alrdy 445+, have bis traits for all 3 warlock specs, ever since i capped neck at 70 like 2 months ago there was nothing for me to do except raids and paragon cache farming

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    OP Pandas and Generic Bad Guy Gets Corrupted By An Old God (Again) is okay BUT I DRAW THE LINE at time travel."

    Okay, you do you dude.
    Please it wasnt just time travel. It was dimensional hopping that in turn has forever fucked up wow lore, certainly made the Legion absolutely fucked. There should be a demonic version of every character

  8. #128
    Mechagnome Wolfrick's Avatar
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    These where the biggest issues with Warlords of Dreanor:


    1st:
    Time travel... Altered dimention timeline.... its very hard to understand and be engaged with as a human, since we are time based creatures and in every situation people make a Time travel/altered dimention timeline 100 or even 1000 Questions come to our minds.... What if.... but why... ecc... This pulls people away from the story and make it feel fake or just wrong.

    2nd:
    The Legion expansion was suppose to be after Mist of pandaria... but for some stupid reason they did the WoD expansion that felt very out of place... that also aliented people.

    3rd:
    Making it seem that TRAVELING BETWEEN ALTERED TIMELINE DIMENTION WORLDS... is like taking a portal from Darnasuss to Storwind.... JUST BLOWS peoples mind.... it just falls back to the..... what... why... category that again pulls people out of the story.

    4th:
    it showed that they had not a clear path for witch expansion they wanted to launch (WoD or Legion) so they had not work that much on either... that showed later into the expansion...

    5th:
    at some point blizzard jsut abandon the exampsion leaving it to Rot... that is very sad... this with all its mistakes and fails... we could have had some amazing raids and story developents

    6th:
    How they forced everyone to make and control a GARRISON... that was such a huge mistake.... Garrisons should just have been an altered progression to do while leveling or at max level... not forcing everyone single person to build up a base.... alot of WoW players love to be the Lone Wolf of the story or just beeing a mercenery.... so this made people feel realy bad about the Garrisons...


    My personal idea:
    Blizzard should have rolled with Legion right after Mist of Pandaria.... Time Travel should just be used in dungeons or raids... with the Bronze dragon flight, since with that, we can pull in and out fast... making it just a small small part of the main story.

    They had the idea to go back and revamp Outland and ressurect all of the old warlords of dreanor... if you ask me that would have been a way better idea and we would not have an entire Alterened timeline world problem on our hands.

    Just think about it, Fel Ressureceted Warlords and a fel Horde, with a revamped outland, pushing forward the story on that broken world, would have been amazing.
    Last edited by Wolfrick; 2019-12-06 at 09:10 AM.
    One learns most when teaching others.

  9. #129
    Mechagnome Depakote's Avatar
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    Warlords of Draenor did fine. In my opinion it was the last of the good expansions. These past two have been quite bad.

  10. #130
    Because garrison was the worst feature ever in the history of WoW.

  11. #131
    Banned Wyrt's Avatar
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    They scrapped way too much stuff to try to make garrisons work and it was not at all worth it.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    I shouldn't have used the word "literally" but I don't need to defend my stance. There is no argument for 6.1 being anything but a complete and utter failure of a major patch. It should have been a 6.0.x patch. Blizzard had implemented system changes involving integrations/new UI/updated models/etc. in 0.0.x patches before. They should have done it again. People all over the place were talking about how they were quitting WoW because they weren't going to pay $15/mo for that to be a major patch. A few people were even worried that Blizzard was running out of content "clearly" so they should quit before the game starts sucking even more.

    It being a minor patch wouldn't have changed how much content WoD got, obviously, but some psychological thing in people's heads ticked when a major patch came out and that is what it was.
    Sorry for the nitpick. When people practice hyperbole I can't help but poke holes in it.

    You seem to have forgotten the weather and voice chat patches. We've had major patches with less than 6.1 gave us. We've had major patches that were virtually nothing but a system no one used or hardly noticed, and the ineviatable class balances. Imagine a major patch about the new water we got in MoP.

    As for the whole paying $15/month for a major patch. My standing is that you don't pay your sub for the latest patch. You pay for the game as a whole, all the content everywhere and the social aspects of it. When I hear people complain that the latest raid or dungeon or zone isn't "enough" to justify them paying a sub it honestly boggles me. Like at the end of MoP the way people were carrying on about SoO I was wondering if they'd all selectively forgotten there was more to WoW than their respective Shrine, the raid, and the space between them.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    Why do you care what happened years ago when the current meta is as shitty as they get.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Because garrison was the worst feature ever in the history of WoW.
    Thats a big lie, many of us made so much gold with that feature that we never paid real money for a sub ever again and bought every shit imaginable in game ranging from alt boosts to the coolest mounts.

    If you look at garrisons generically they re bad, but in reality most players wasted the garrison potential by just thinking its player housing with some twists they never took time to explore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    They scrapped way too much stuff to try to make garrisons work and it was not at all worth it.
    I ll repeat myself: Garrisons per se were bad game, garrisons as a method to become filthy rich and invest in your wow future were the best shit ever invented. Just imagine having 10s of alts in connected realms farming gold missions for the mere effort of levelling some toons and spending an hour a day sending missions for so much gold that it still pays the subs today.

  14. #134
    Speaking purely from a lore perspective, they tried to turn player housing into a gimmick instead of a purely cosmetic thing and THEN abandoned almost an entire patch of content which lead to not only a missing raid tier but vital story to make the expansion make sense. NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO HAVE A MECHANIC OR HAVE TIMED MISSIONS, SOME CONCEPTS ARE PURELY COSMETIC. Look at pretty much every other MMO with player housing of some kind, it doesn't factor into your primary gameplay and is purely for self-expression. It was a bad idea from the start to put soooo much resources into a system that has no business being tied to gameplay in the slightest. Another theory I've heard was that WoD and Legion were being made at the same time to the point where they could have put Legion first then WoD or WoD first then legion.

    So basically they wasted resources they didn't need to on trying to make player housing a mechanic instead of just a place to chill at if you wanna RP or just have something you can customize yourself.


    Slightly offtopic:

    Losing that raid tier for me at least, ruined the entire narrative of WoD which was only exacerbated by the story almost changing on a dime with Grom being sold as the big bad of the expansion. The story was a fucking mess and it shows, especially with the final patch with Grom doing an entirely undeserved character flip out of nowhere because "GULDAN BAD". For a game called "World of WARcraft", everyone seems to just be holding hands and singing kumbaya even after they had been actively enslaving and murdering people months, days or even WEEKS prior. Then they tried to turn the victims (Draenei) into the oppressors while blatantly ignoring their horrific acts. MoP is probably the most cohesive expansion we've had alongside wotlk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  15. #135
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    There was a very clear design paradigm shift going into WoD, moving away from many core MMORPG-designs, and instead moving into more short-term burst design and more focus on "action".
    It also very clearly cemented the play-the-patch mentality the game devs has been stuck in ever since.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The biggest challenge of WoW is designing for the many different audiences that play the game.
    Yeah, you're trying to satisfy players who doesn't even enjoy playing RPGs, and thus you're alienating those who do.

  16. #136
    Banned Wyrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I ll repeat myself: Garrisons per se were bad game, garrisons as a method to become filthy rich and invest in your wow future were the best shit ever invented. Just imagine having 10s of alts in connected realms farming gold missions for the mere effort of levelling some toons and spending an hour a day sending missions for so much gold that it still pays the subs today.
    Garrisons were basically Blizzard approved gold farming bots and it was bad for the game.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Except the heirlooms interface; the trader/raid quest/Harrison quest/profession quests in your garrison; the music box and the rolls to hunt down; new follower missions including for the BRF raid; numerous class changes; a follower for completing the ring questline; new battle pets in BC raids; item fixes to make transmog easier, etc.

    Yeah. It was literally nothing but Twitter. /s
    Tbh the biggest "feature" was the belf models.

    But they were somewhat behind schedule, if they released stuff from 6.2.5 or what was the patch number (mythic dungeons, timewalking etc.) as a part of 6.1 it would give players something to do outside of raids and diminish the feeling of drought. That patch (timewalking / mythic0) was a good idea, but little too late to save the xpac.

    And shipyard was just horrible. Even people who liked Garrisons, I don't think they liked the tacked-on worse "garrison lite" that was shipyard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantoro View Post
    For me, WoD started so poorly, the bad taste in my mouth just lasted the entire expac. The 1st 2 weeks, the game was literally unplayable, crazy long queues, when you got to character list, game crashed. I persnally loved garrisons, I made so much gold, I couldn't believe they let it go so long before nerfed it to the ground, some days I was making 75k gold a day for logging in on 11 toons for 5 minutes each. Doesn't sound like much to some, but it adds up fast.
    Agreed, the game being unplayable at launch probably scared off a lot of people who traditionally buy the box, sub at the start of xpac and then hibernate until big content drop.

    I know people who take time off work for xpac launches and this one, they just couldn't play. Myself I spent first 3 days doing nothing but herbing in Talador after the initial scenario, due to massive lag and garrisons not working, so unable to pick any quests as all of them started in garrisons. It was so bad they had to give an apology and 7 day free game time compensation, which they haven't since wotlk, and never afterwards either. I can only imagine how many people ragequit and uninstalled in frustration, maybe even tried a refund.

    Sad part is after everything was fixed, I actually had a blast levelling in WOD, my favourite levelling experience of all xpacs. But it was all ruined by technical meltdown on the Blizzard side.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfrick View Post
    [B][I][U]These where the biggest issues with Warlords of Dreanor:
    Really? Lore Issues? Thats what you think is the major drive for regular players of the game not happy with something?

    Are you serious?

    Garrison/HOUSING was a community feature, begged for years to the DEV team and blizzard delivered. They delivered the feature so successful, that it showed why the whole concept is stupid in the first place. Isolating players appart from each other in a MMO is not really smart.

    Zero alternative gearing, Zero raid-alternative content and garrison's, the main factor the game felt dead everywhere, did a lot of harm to this MMO in the last half of the expansion. LEGION just had to do EVERYTHING different and it was allready a success story.
    LEGION gave us:
    => GRIND for alternative EVERYTHING, legendarys, gearing, collectables
    => no more housing, meaningless class halls (WIN WIN)
    => M+ as the direct alternative to raiding, not only a gearprogression alternative but true PvE content alternative

    LEGION was basicly the biggest FU to raiding as the only core feature of the game and another big FU to player housing from blizzard and it blow up, more regular players as ever in the history of the game and more game time spend per player. The polar opposite of WoD.

    Lore issues? Get real.
    Last edited by Ange; 2019-12-06 at 11:49 AM.
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  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    It also very clearly cemented the play-the-patch mentality the game devs has been stuck in ever since.
    Huh? That was a thing basically since wotlk, or cata the latest.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Steward View Post
    I clarified this in a later post. I was talking here about Tanaan, which was included on the map at the Blizzcon announcement when they were covering Draenor, which is also where they said Farahlon would be coming in a later patch. Months later it was announced that Tanaan would not make it into launch. The issue is they then turned around and said this was always the plan, Tanaan was always going to be coming in a later patch though at the announcement they made no such statement.

    If that was the case, when they had the world map up and were talking about Farahlon coming later why didn't they ALSO mention Tanaan? Either A) Tanaan was never planned to be playable at launch and they just didn't tell us despite talking about another zone on the world map also not planned for launch, which was misleading, then feigned surprise when nobody knew the thing they didn't tell us and got upset about it. Or B) Tanaan was planned for launch, had to be delayed, and instead of adding one more thing to the list of things being scrapped/altered they lied about the delay saying it was always the plan.

    As I said, in the grand scheme of the expansion this is minor, but this sort of either misleading or false communication to your playerbase does not win you any fans.
    I simply dont see a beneficial reason for lying willfuly about taanan,all it does is make them look bad,thinking taanan is a launch zone wont sell extra copies

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