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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Zero alternative gearing,
    Apexis gear was meant to fill that gap, but it was flawed for 2 reasons, 1 the items cost way too much for their value so it wasn't viewed as worth grinding (contrary to nethershards, argunite, mana pearls etc.), and 2 the quests to obtain apexis were generic, lazy, copy pasta afterthought with no variety, just go there fill the bar, every single one of them.

    That's why everyone was so happy about world quests, they gave catch up / casual gear quickly, and they had decent variety of types. Obviously they aren't perfect, as seen with the war on WQ addons Blizzard started because they suddenly found out people are finishing their daily batch "too fast" when hopping into groups.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Garrisons were basically Blizzard approved gold farming bots and it was bad for the game.
    Many things are bad for the game with vicious, slanderous forum comments being the #1.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    I'm not sure that you mean. WoD actually had an incredible succes when it first launched, it was after the first quarter that subs started to go rapidly:

    People were excited for WoD because they were tired of MoP's theme and wanted to see WoW return to its roots, and WoD was generally seen as a TBC 2.0
    It had both the steepest increase and steepest decrease in subscribers. What does that say about WoD? People were excited for the new expansion, because of how it was marketed. The final product, however, was disappointing and they left again.

    I know I did. But I've had that with every expansion since MoP. Cataclysm and MoP are far inferior to WotLK, but compared to the more recent expansions, they were glorious.

    The reason why raids last so long is because Blizzard is lazy.
    Last edited by Statix; 2019-12-06 at 11:56 AM.
    Statix will suffice.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Obviously they aren't perfect, as seen with the war on WQ addons Blizzard started because they suddenly found out people are finishing their daily batch "too fast" when hopping into groups.
    I don't think to fast was the main issue for blizzard. Questing in raids or even groups is a prohibited thing since vanilla. It gets nerfed/hotfixed pretty fast if the majority is using it. Since WQ are the main/basic content for everyone (majority), the reaction from blizzard to prohibit addon cheese was to be expected and surprised not even the addon authors that much.

    Questing passivly from flying mounts was not really a good thing and the only outcry I remember with its nerf was from the boost-buying extrem casual crowd, that is not playing the game either way, so I couldnt care less.
    Last edited by Ange; 2019-12-06 at 11:58 AM.
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  5. #145
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Many things are bad for the game with vicious, slanderous forum comments being the #1.
    I don't see any significant difference between having a bot farm gold for you while you AFK or having an NPC farm gold for you while you AFK other than the latter was approved by Blizzard.

  6. #146
    They tuned up the raid content from Siege to WoD. More casual/mediocre guilds who had a place in Siege, in Flex and them Normal mode, had no place in WoD until HFC.

    The devs never seem to be able to learn the lesson that when they exclude players, they stop playing.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The devs never seem to be able to learn the lesson that when they exclude players, they stop playing.
    And how do you explain the cruel difficulty in mythic raiding with LEGION/BFA while player participation for every other content is peaking new records?

    If raiding difficulty was significant to player activity/sub-time LEGION and BFA should have been much, much worse. But they were not. LEGION and BFA showcase how much alternative content to raiding matters and how litte the actual raid quality means for the majority of the players.
    Last edited by Ange; 2019-12-06 at 12:04 PM.
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  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    And how do you explain the cruel difficulty in mythic raiding with LEGION/BFA while player participation for every other content is peaking new records?
    I explain that statement by you making shit up.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  9. #149
    The Patient
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    Remember patch 6.1?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Kantoro View Post
    I persnally loved garrisons, I made so much gold, I couldn't believe they let it go so long before nerfed it to the ground, some days I was making 75k gold a day for logging in on 11 toons for 5 minutes each. Doesn't sound like much to some, but it adds up fast.
    75k is a small number in todays 150k/week/toon from WQ/paragon RAW GOLD only, with TRANSMOG missions, basicly passive farming for the most lucrative items to sell.

    Since WQ's are not needing your full attention to the game and with multiboxing so widespread, you min-max your daily gold grind, while watching a single episode from your favourite show.

    But it works out for blizzard. The threshold to min-max world quest is slightly above what the garrison crowd was able to do, so its not widespread, as you can see from the huge outcry because of the brutosaur removal.
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  11. #151
    Everything went down when we recieved Twitter integration patch 6.1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also Garrisons were the start of WoW economy transitioning into Venezuela

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    Siege didn't last for 2 years. Problem with WoD was it had very little content. If you were a raider, the only time you stepped out of your garrison was to raid. rest of the time you were in there. no outdoor world content like we have in Legion and BfA. No Mythic+. If you didn't raid and just did LFR then you stayed in your garrison. If you pvp'd you were at Ashran or doing instances.... from your garrison. The content itself was fine; there just wasn't enough of it.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I simply dont see a beneficial reason for lying willfuly about taanan,all it does is make them look bad,thinking taanan is a launch zone wont sell extra copies
    Well I mean I don't see a beneficial reason for either option, but it has to be one of those two. They either mislead us about it for months, or lied about it. Both are bad, both are pointless, and I don't understand the reason for either. But here we are.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    I don't think to fast was the main issue for blizzard. Questing in raids or even groups is a prohibited thing since vanilla.
    Well they said themselves in a statement that people took only few seconds for what was meant to take them few minutes, and it was considered a pacing issue.

    Questing in groups existed in vanilla and still exists on classic. Not raids, 5 man groups. It was always the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    And how do you explain the cruel difficulty in mythic raiding with LEGION/BFA while player participation for every other content is peaking new records?
    1. Raiding stopped being the only source of end game gear
    2. Raiding gear and other rewards aren't even that much better than other sources of rewards
    3. Raiding requires much more grinding since introduction of AP, then legion leggos and bfa essences
    4. Raiding is tuned around the populace having higher ilvl from the get go due to all the other sources of gear floating around, which means you can't outgear it as hard as you could let's say in wotlk, where the difference between entering a raid and exiting was massive in gear.
    Edit: forgot to add there's no tier sets, BFA raid transmogs are ugly, and half the raids didn't even have a mythic mount in BFA...

    So yes, raiding lost on attractiveness, while gained on extra steps required to be considered "ready" for it. No wonder people are quitting raiding.

    Imo m+ shouldn't be nerfed, since it's popular and no point pulling the rug from under people's feet, but raiding should be adjusted to either have less hurdles to "grind" for it, or having better rewards, or being easier (m+10 is easier than heroic raid despite rewarding the same ilvl). Since better rewards would create outcry about wow being "raid or die" again the only other solution is reduce barriers to entry, logistics and difficulty tuning of raiding to match other content.

    But they obviously won't do it, because they wanna design raids as something people will bash their heads against for months, while m+ apparently it's fine to be steamrolled for gear and expected to be repeated ad infinitum, while if raids were steamrolled apparently nobody would replay them... logic.

    Well, putting the gear cut off in m+ at 15 up from 10 in 8.3 is at least a step in a correct direction. Nobody cares if +25 is uber hard if it rewarded the same gear as +10 that is easier than heroic raid. And there is no in-game reward for anything above 15. It's only on 3rd party websites.
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2019-12-06 at 01:36 PM.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Tbh the biggest "feature" was the belf models.

    But they were somewhat behind schedule, if they released stuff from 6.2.5 or what was the patch number (mythic dungeons, timewalking etc.) as a part of 6.1 it would give players something to do outside of raids and diminish the feeling of drought. That patch (timewalking / mythic0) was a good idea, but little too late to save the xpac.

    And shipyard was just horrible. Even people who liked Garrisons, I don't think they liked the tacked-on worse "garrison lite" that was shipyard.
    Well, the person I was quoting to specifically said "content" so I was looking at things you could do/gather/collect/etc. Learn and upgrade the heirlooms, new quests, music rolls to hunt, missions to do, new follower, new pets, new mogs to learn. Also a bit of clarification about your mythic0 statement. I thought all the WoD dungeons were available with mythic mode from the beginning, but your statement to me reads that they were added in 6.2.5?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Siege didn't last for 2 years. Problem with WoD was it had very little content. If you were a raider, the only time you stepped out of your garrison was to raid. rest of the time you were in there. no outdoor world content like we have in Legion and BfA. No Mythic+. If you didn't raid and just did LFR then you stayed in your garrison. If you pvp'd you were at Ashran or doing instances.... from your garrison. The content itself was fine; there just wasn't enough of it.
    I only had one toon and I had plenty to do. Garrison chores like gathering work orders, garden, and mine. Hop around to find the trainer, Harrison quest, and bounty quest. Restock my barn. Beat each pet tamer in each zone while cycling around doing said Harrison/bounty quests. Do my random heroic for points. Do all the M0s over the course of the week. Do challenge modes. Do the apexis quests. Do archaeology. Farm the outdoor elites that drop order resources. Hunt for rares that drop mounts. Grind reps. Then Tanaan added several more hours of things to do in the form of mini bosses, more apexis quests, more than a dozen pet battles, baleful farming for alts. I honestly and truly boggle when I see people say there wasn't enough content in WoD. The only conclusion I can come to is they disregard things they don't want to do as "not content" so they can complain what's left isn't enough.
    Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way.

    Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  16. #156
    Probably because they cut an entire raid tier out of it, and expected us to stay subscribed anyway.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Also a bit of clarification about your mythic0 statement. I thought all the WoD dungeons were available with mythic mode from the beginning, but your statement to me reads that they were added in 6.2.5?
    Pretty sure dungeons were released in the version of normal, heroic (required proving grounds silver to queue) and challenge mode. Mythic was added later.

    According to my search it was added with HFC patch so 6.2 in June 2015
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.2.0

    There was no 6.2.5 apparently, there was:
    6.2.2 in september which added flying, merc mode for pvp, timewalking badges and some darkmoon toys
    6.2.3 in november with more timewalking dungeons, timewalking mount, heirloom trinkets from mythic0, valor upgrades and x-realm mythic
    6.2.4 in march that was just technical fixes

  18. #158
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    WoD was more than capable to be the biggest expansion. Draenor is, literally, a whole other planet, a rich one. An amazing one in fact.



    WoD should have lasted a whole extra year and have the corresponding extra 3 MAJOR content patches. But instead they made it a quick, smaller expansion.

    So much was left behind with it and, obviously, it is all lost now.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I don't see any significant difference between having a bot farm gold for you while you AFK or having an NPC farm gold for you while you AFK other than the latter was approved by Blizzard.
    The difference is one is a game mode and the other is straight up cheating to gain unfair advantage.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Like how does that work?
    Basically, the were two big problems with WoD.

    Firstly they designed the expansion with the expectation players would be able to fly at max level but then opted to remove that feature. This made the max level experience SIGNIFICANTLY worse than it should have been as everything was tedious/time consuming compared to in previous expansions. It made a lot of content too laborious to be worth doing which added to the fact there was very little content in the first place caused massive issues.

    The funny thing is, when they finally added flying it instantly made WoD a significantly better expansion, if it had been in at launch it would probably be looked back on much more fondly, or at least a lot better than Cata.


    Secondly, they removed 10m mythic raiding and that had a big negative impact on the raiding scene. You see back in MoP/Cata/WotLK you only needed 10 people to raid at the max difficulty level (albeit in WotLK it gave lower quality loot than 25m), there were two options you could either raid as a 10m group (the playerbase's preferred format) or in a 25m group (Blizzards preferred format).

    The problem with this was that 10m was slowly killing off 25m and rather than let that happen Blizzard stepped into save it, removing 10m and dropping 25m to 20m (with the intention that 10m groups would merge). The change did not go down well, many players opted to simply stop raiding mythic rather than bend to Blizzard's will and as a result the mythic playerbase shrank by 2/3 over a time period where the total playerbase only shrank by 1/3, the repercussions of this are still being felt today.


    So yeah that's basically it, two massive changes that both negatively impacted the game leading to what is considered one of the worst expansions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I don't see any significant difference between having a bot farm gold for you while you AFK or having an NPC farm gold for you while you AFK other than the latter was approved by Blizzard.
    You are correct.

    It's in the same vein that buying gold for real money off a website or eBay was a bannable offence but buying gold for real money off Blizzard is fine :P

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