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  1. #161
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    there wasn't even dailies in WoD, just a single daily, and while lvling was amazing it was also short, u can pretty much be done with max 2 toons to lvl
    sadly it was best time to make gold for zero effort, my friend had 11 toon with max garrison, he was generating sh8tload of gold for just 10 min login and logout

    blizz stopped release numbers because FF14 beat them in subs imo
    1. wod had tons of dailies, the inn had atleast 5-6, the gairrson inn itself had 4-5 depending on the day, then buildings themselves had specific dailies, pair that with all the "daily stuff" you had to do in the garrson, mine, herb, buildings, missions, then tanaan was FILLED with dailies.

    2. lol got any source on "FF14 beat them in subs" cause FF14 only last year passed 1 million cocurrent subs. and wow does not have less then 1 mill, nor has it ever, it would have been VERY obvious, but hey if you have a source to show wow has less then 1 mill subs go ahead, otherwise i will keep calling you a liar.


    3. you say "blizz stopped release numbers because FF14 beat them in subs imo" yet when wow stopped reporting sub numbers was september 2015, at 5.5 mil subs. so unless you say FF14 had more then 5.5 mil subs in 2015. which is funny ff14 only got 16 million players TOTAL in its entire lifespan (since 2010), may this year... which wow got... in Burning crusade... And had reached 100 mil by mop. 2 years ago people were debating if the active sub count for FF14 was 400k or 800k. you really think it was 5.5 mil in 2015?
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2019-12-06 at 06:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  2. #162
    WoD was abandoned in favor of Legion. None of the issues of WoD could be addressed in WoD because the game was essentially left 50-60% complete. That's likely the only reason it's considered a "failure", as if they'd been able to address the biggest gripes in 6.2 and 6.3 then people would have been fine.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I only had one toon and I had plenty to do. Garrison chores like gathering work orders, garden, and mine. Hop around to find the trainer, Harrison quest, and bounty quest. Restock my barn. Beat each pet tamer in each zone while cycling around doing said Harrison/bounty quests. Do my random heroic for points. Do all the M0s over the course of the week. Do challenge modes. Do the apexis quests. Do archaeology. Farm the outdoor elites that drop order resources. Hunt for rares that drop mounts. Grind reps. Then Tanaan added several more hours of things to do in the form of mini bosses, more apexis quests, more than a dozen pet battles, baleful farming for alts. I honestly and truly boggle when I see people say there wasn't enough content in WoD. The only conclusion I can come to is they disregard things they don't want to do as "not content" so they can complain what's left isn't enough.
    And that is true but those things do have a finite time on them. Eventually you reach a point where you don’t need to do more archaeology, or farm apexis because there’s nothing to do with them. As I said, there was content and it was good just not enough. There should always be a reason for you to go out and about in the world and in WoD that was lacking.

  4. #164
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. wod had tons of dailies, the inn had atleast 5-6, the gairrson inn itself had 4-5 depending on the day, then buildings themselves had specific dailies, pair that with all the "daily stuff" you had to do in the garrson, mine, herb, buildings, missions, then tanaan was FILLED with dailies.

    2. lol got any source on "FF14 beat them in subs" cause FF14 only last year passed 1 million cocurrent subs. and wow does not have less then 1 mill, nor has it ever, it would have been VERY obvious, but hey if you have a source to show wow has less then 1 mill subs go ahead, otherwise i will keep calling you a liar.


    3. you say "blizz stopped release numbers because FF14 beat them in subs imo" yet when wow stopped reporting sub numbers was september 2015, at 5.5 mil subs. so unless you say FF14 had more then 5.5 mil subs in 2015. which is funny ff14 only got 16 million players TOTAL in its entire lifespan (since 2010), may this year... which wow got... in Burning crusade... And had reached 100 mil by mop. 2 years ago people were debating if the active sub count for FF14 was 400k or 800k. you really think it was 5.5 mil in 2015?
    1- pre-tannan era claim it had tons of dailies is questionable, and the 'daily' from building was just go a hc dungeon and do jc one, they were still useless (also jc one did give good gold)
    2- no there is no source, but blizz stop showing sub after making it standard for over 12 years (at that time) means they know they are losing and not want to show how bad it is
    3- never played FF14 to know if they beat wow or not, i do know that FF14 1.0 was sh8t, only 2.0 was actually good, as for the debate u talking about, neither side confirm anything but it is debatable (ironic that even there they glimpse about the leak security disaster and also just focus on sub numbers...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niroshi View Post
    WoD was abandoned in favor of Legion. None of the issues of WoD could be addressed in WoD because the game was essentially left 50-60% complete. That's likely the only reason it's considered a "failure", as if they'd been able to address the biggest gripes in 6.2 and 6.3 then people would have been fine.
    wod was abandoned before it was even released, after they finished horde capital of the Ogre stornghold (don't remember its name, that big base in Frostfire ridge on south left side) they still didn't make it our capital because they didn't bother make the alliance one, then they abandoned the idea of moving garrison after they already made ground work for it (i think they finished gorgond one before scrap project), then they gave a brief taste of BRF yet not release it until way later in 6.1 the comical 'major' patch selfie patch, there is also that island they heavily promoted that was never introduced in game, just a shipyard mission
    and wtf was that shipyard, that part i admit i'm not sure but didn't they promise a naval war akin to the scenario in MoP ?
    tldr: they scrapped a lot of half or even 1/4 ideas that were going to be made for game, and as already mentioned it was heavy publicized as TBC 2.0 which ended zero relation to it
    unpopular opinion but i did like patch 6.2, maybe because i had zero expectation but 6.2 was 'better' than i expected

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    or farm apexis because there’s nothing to do with them.
    didn't apexis shards drop like crazy and u easily cap them very fast in first place?
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  5. #165
    In general for questions like these it is important to remember that, at least from how the devs talk about it, the expansion are made by the conveyor belt principle.
    There isnt a large nebulous team of "expansion developers" there are many separate teams that work on wildly different things, from my guess roughly split into 3 sections.

    You have a writing team, who are working on the expansion far before it sees the light of day. This team might be the closest one to an all-encompassing team, but even then theyt are probably the one working with the longest timespan. I have no doubt that they are currently discussin possible locations for 9.2 and beyond.

    Secondly you have the world design team, who definitely work far ahead. As was shown at Blizzcon they are already mostly done with the initial zones coming for Shadowlands with the possible exception of the Maw, since they didnt show it. So in general we can assume they work about 1 year ahead of us.

    Then there is the team designing how the zone will be to play, and how the levelling will work in it. Deciding where to put mobs, NPCs and quests. And figuring out how to best bring across the vision the writing team and the world design team had in mind.


    Putting this all together we can make a reasonable timeline of how Blizzard operates, and it is also fairly easy to see how this means that even if a raid lasts a year, and the team in theory has all that time to work on a new expansion, they are still under time pressure.
    WoD was simply a victim to time and Blizzard falling behind. Even beyond that, adding a whole bunch of new devs is problematic for efficiency, since you need to dedicate time, and more importantly other developers to make sure they know how to use their homebrew software, and that their work is at an acceptable level.

    WoD quite simply hit the wall, and instead of falling behind Blizzard cut the knot and sacrificed developing WoD to make sure Legion was as close to perfect as possible.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    I'm not sure that you mean. WoD actually had an incredible succes when it first launched, it was after the first quarter that subs started to go rapidly:

    People were excited for WoD because they were tired of MoP's theme and wanted to see WoW return to its roots, and WoD was generally seen as a TBC 2.0
    One of the reasons people often ignore is the story, Wod had the possibility to write an amazing story, and the story from the beginning was actually pretty good, the starting zones are amazing, but after that it came downhill, of course that is not the only reason, but I believe it is one of the reasons.

    The ending of Wod was probably the worst ending of all wow expansions, Grom had no business standing where he stood, saying what he said.

  7. #167
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    1- pre-tannan era claim it had tons of dailies is questionable, and the 'daily' from building was just go a hc dungeon and do jc one, they were still useless (also jc one did give good gold)
    2- no there is no source, but blizz stop showing sub after making it standard for over 12 years (at that time) means they know they are losing and not want to show how bad it is
    3- never played FF14 to know if they beat wow or not, i do know that FF14 1.0 was sh8t, only 2.0 was actually good, as for the debate u talking about, neither side confirm anything but it is debatable (ironic that even there they glimpse about the leak security disaster and also just focus on sub numbers...)
    ?
    1. yeah no, at level 1 it had 2 quests, 2 it had 3, and then 3 it had 5 each day...

    2. "12 years" i didnt know november 2004 to september 2015 was 12 years... odd... and no, they stopepd reporting cause it was just pointless.

    3. and oh look you completly pretend you didnt say "wow stopped putting subs cause FF14 beat it, and so ff14 has been the king since" which was just 100% false.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    They gutted the expansion of key features (shattrath raid, farahlon).

    Exchanged the should-have-been final boss (grommash) with recycled archimonde. Then we become friends with grommash in the end which literally makes no sense.

    The 6.1 selfie patch, literally the worst patch in the history of wow.

    Garrisoncraft removing people from the world.

    Lack of dailies or any meaningful content to do out in the world.

    Last but not least, the fact that it only had 2 raid tiers.
    Well raid tiers aside and frankly a good way to highlight why they were so bad on account they were the only content "to" do aside from farming apexis and bg's...

    Basically, MoP still had a legit tonne of content to do outside of SoO, you had Isle of Thunder, Dino Isle, Timeless Isle, you had 4 Raid Tiers, you also had world pvp, world pve, daily quests that actually came in more than "one" per day.

    There was still alot in MoP that actually felt relevent, even if it was a soft introduction to some of the core features id call insidious and damaging over time (Bonus rolls/titanforging, rng heavy loot rewards)

    MoP ultimatley did what WoD could not, it kept an idea to the point and managed to deliver a consise story, Pandaria's story ended after ToT and SoO worked as a good epilogue since it was being built up since 5.1

    Alot of the story just did what most current wow expansions cant (save maybe legion) remain consistant and keep its theme to the end.

    The one thing MoP did wrong? Garrosh surviving MoP, a 5.5 patch was promised that basically became warcrimes as a novel, and imho, no content that should be in game should -ever- be turned into a book.

    That, was the only mistake.

  9. #169
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    The one thing MoP did wrong? Garrosh surviving MoP, a 5.5 patch was promised that basically became warcrimes as a novel
    Did they talk about something like that ? I don't remember at all any hint about transition of mop to wod by in-game representation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. yeah no, at level 1 it had 2 quests, 2 it had 3, and then 3 it had 5 each day...

    2. "12 years" i didnt know november 2004 to september 2015 was 12 years... odd... and no, they stopepd reporting cause it was just pointless.

    3. and oh look you completly pretend you didnt say "wow stopped putting subs cause FF14 beat it, and so ff14 has been the king since" which was just 100% false.
    for f8ck sake...
    1- i don't know exact number, but as literally everyone here said they were all sh8t and didn't matter, useless
    2- 11 years 5 months 4 days and 10 hours, no idea about seconds go count them urself
    3- i did say imo blizz sensed that FF14 beat them so they stopped it, never claimed it was official, and it doesn't make sense after u make the standard to publish ur sub numbers to stop to after massive of over half ur sub numbers unless u just hiding the fact u are bleeding horribly with no future sight of any remedy soon
    what is fact is wow became fraction (sadly) of its former far better days, specially in wrath where everywhere u stumble with wow players irl, now there are gamers who don't even know wow still exist sadly, after it was envy of everyone and reason why console gamers bought pc
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    "Everybody who cares already knows the story" isn't a source.



    All of WotLK's initial raid content was cleared in the first week of its launch. The only remotely difficult encounter was Sarth 3D and even that was a bit of a snooze fest. I really don't know how you can say everything post-WoD "lacks polish" when one of Blizzard's most universally revered expansions had almost zero content at launch.
    It's public knowledge, not a secret. If you watch some of the dev interviews from that time, they even say it - new devs had to be trained in WoW matters. No tinfoil hat attached.

    Quantity doesn't equal quality ("polish"). MoP was the last high quality WoW xpac. Legion had some good stuff, but the constant balancing issues connected with Legendaries and M+ progression, the AP grind/AP progression stuff ruined it somewhat. Sometimes, less is more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niroshi View Post
    WoD was abandoned in favor of Legion. None of the issues of WoD could be addressed in WoD because the game was essentially left 50-60% complete. That's likely the only reason it's considered a "failure", as if they'd been able to address the biggest gripes in 6.2 and 6.3 then people would have been fine.
    Yeah, and that, too. WoD was an xpac they just gave up on from the start. Should've given us our $$$ back. Is this even legal? Advertising a product you're not delivering on later? Sounds like a scam.

  11. #171
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    Did they talk about something like that ? I don't remember at all any hint about transition of mop to wod by in-game representation?

    - - - Updated - - -


    for f8ck sake...
    1- i don't know exact number, but as literally everyone here said they were all sh8t and didn't matter, useless
    2- 11 years 5 months 4 days and 10 hours, no idea about seconds go count them urself
    3- i did say imo blizz sensed that FF14 beat them so they stopped it, never claimed it was official, and it doesn't make sense after u make the standard to publish ur sub numbers to stop to after massive of over half ur sub numbers unless u just hiding the fact u are bleeding horribly with no future sight of any remedy soon
    what is fact is wow became fraction (sadly) of its former far better days, specially in wrath where everywhere u stumble with wow players irl, now there are gamers who don't even know wow still exist sadly, after it was envy of everyone and reason why console gamers bought pc

    your the one who said it mate.

    their last report was september 2015, game launched 2004 novebmer, not 5 months.

    3. no, ff14 had not beat them, not even close, again it only reached 16 million total players this year. took them 9 years.
    wow in 9 years got 100 million, so no, not even close.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  12. #172
    because it was a glorified patch to set up the real expansion?

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    It's public knowledge, not a secret. If you watch some of the dev interviews from that time, they even say it - new devs had to be trained in WoW matters. No tinfoil hat attached.
    At no point in any dev interview has anybody ever came out to say that WoD's development team was moved to work on Overwatch. Some of WoW's core team DID move to Project Titan from which Overwatch was eventually born but this move happened while WotLK was still around. You are incorrectly taking publicly available information (Blizzard moved staffing to work on Project Titan) and conflating it with a conspiracy theory that because Overwatch was released while WoD was around that they MUST have borrowed from the WoW team. The reason I've repeatedly asked you to clarify your claims is because you're literally making shit up. Knock it off. Thanks.

    Yeah, and that, too. WoD was an xpac they just gave up on from the start. Should've given us our $$$ back. Is this even legal? Advertising a product you're not delivering on later? Sounds like a scam.
    Yes, because obviously Blizzard endeavored to half ass WoD from the beginning! Let's start a class action lawsuit against Blizzard three fucking expansions later!

  14. #174
    it was the dream expansion for people who just wanted to login and raid.

    everyone else had nothing to do

  15. #175
    Bloodsail Admiral Evaddon's Avatar
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    Because they gave up on the Expansion and started working on Legion? 6.1 was a joke patch giving us a camera, blood elf models,and twitter interrogation people hardly use and no one wanted. This was the nail in the coffin to the expansions terrible endgame systems and features..WoD was great up until endgame, WoD had the worst endgame to date

    The launch of WoD other then various bugs and issues, was fantastic. WoD still has one of the best leveling experiences and questing experiences to date.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    They cut corners left and right, who knows why, official excuse was "we hired a lot of people and had to train them" but they could you know... train them by making them do some job?

    WOD had tons of scrapped content like Bladespire / Karabor capitals, Farahlon, Southern Ogre Continent, Kargath mini-raid and he was lumped into Highmaul, Shattrath raid, Yrel story arc, Doomhammer proper story arc, Tess Greymane story, reps were an afterthought, apexis gear was way too overpriced trying to mask lack of content with extended grind (a theme we will see time and time again afterwards), ability to put your Garrison in any zone of your choice was removed and put into static spot, promised ideas of decorating Garrisons with trophies from slain rares and raid bosses removed and replaced with 3 monuments, racial customization in buildings and followers never happened all we got was a handful of guards, Blood Elf models were delayed until 6.1 and a lot of other ones had to be tweaked, from female Draenei faces to female Orc and Troll animations, Goblins & Worgens delayed until BFA lol...

    I could go for ages.

    The suspected reason why WOD was abandoned was that they tried to develop WOD & Legion parallelly to transition into "yearly expansions" (cashing in on box sales when subs jump to 10 mil on launch only to drop to 3-5 mil after was a lucrative perspective if you could double the frequency), but failed so hard that they finally realized best they can do is keep the 2-year expac cycle we had since basically tbc / wotlk.
    It's funny because WoD and Cataclysm are my two least favorite expansions and arguably among the worst, and I always wonder how different they'd have been if Blizzard didn't cut a tremendous amount of content from the both of them. Would they be middle of the pack or among the best?

    It's interesting to think about.

    (and no I'm not counting BFA among the worst yet because it still has life)

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Wha... Am I reading this correct? Not only do you think that BfA was supposed to come before Legion but that Shadowlands is underdeveloped with no "fallback"? (what)
    Yes.

    /10char

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
    Yes.

    /10char
    Well, uh, thanks for clarifying I guess.

    Hey, um, can you pick up premium TV channels with that tin foil hat?

  19. #179
    Would've rather had 2 more years of SoO than what we ended up getting with WoD.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    Would've rather had 2 more years of SoO than what we ended up getting with WoD.
    I promise you: You wouldn't.

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