Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Blizzard wanted M+ and raiding to be alternative paths of progression. Unfortunately they ran into the same problem as they did when they introduced arenas in TBC.

    They can't balance the classes around raiding because it will affect M+. They can't balance the classes around M+ because it will affect raiding.
    There are sizeable raiding-exclusive and m+-exclusive populations. They can't prioritize one over the other because it will cause subscriber losses in the long run.

    Raiding can't award powerful items because it will make raiding mandatory for M+ players. M+ can't award powerful items because it will make M+ mandatory for raiders. This is also why tier sets don't fit into the current design paradigm. When they tried to have unique and powerful rewards from different forms of content, Shadowmourne in WotLK arenas happened.

    There is an answer to this but no one wants to hear it. Templates for M+ and raiding. But since WoW's carrot on a stick is gear progression, most people won't stick around if you remove tangible gear rewards. If people don't feel their characters get stronger they'll start asking, what's the point of doing this? This is especially true in modern WoW's gear-centric RNGforged / corrupted design.

    Once the momentum from Legion wears off and more and more people realize that the current design is boring and unbalanced, participation will plummet. This is exactly what happened with arenas and rated PvP in general. Once people realized that Blizzard would never sacrifice raid balance in favor of PvP balance, they left. The initial hype from TBC sustained it into MoP but in WoD participation just got destroyed and never recovered. And back during the TBC-WoD period there was a much higher population to sustain continued arena participation.

    Remember when Arena World Championship was Blizzard's big event? Nobody gives a shit about that anymore. It's all about the Mythic Dungeon Invitational now. But it can only last so long until bad balance starts to drive people away. The writing is already on the wall with some meta classes (looking at you, rogues) being almost mandatory.

    This is a classic example of "try to please everyone and you won't please anyone". Except, well, people who play casually. Now is a great time to play casually. You have tons of different content to try and the problems don't become apparent until you reach the very top level. But the parallels between arena's decline and M+ are definitely there. M+ has already become more exclusionary and elitist compared to its Legion iteration.

    Tl;dr: Ion, you can't have both tight tuning and different forms of endgame content. Pick one. Super-competitive e-sports with tight tuning or casual gameplay with a variety of game modes. Can't have both.



    So... Like..... Make mythic+ gears only usable for only Mythic+ and cannot be used for raiding purpose. Mythic vendors it with some unique currency or something.

    Raiding gear'd up shouldn't be used for mythic+ purpose. Like negate or something to make it weaker for mythic+ or something. IDK something like that.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    WoW thrives as a social experience. I blacklist people with this attitude right here.
    Because a "social experience" matters when you're just trying to complete a fucking dungeon? Lol. Would you support a queue for M+?

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaanm4n View Post
    There is a way more easier solution - just have sets for each aspect of the game with set bonuses
    M+ set gives u bonus in dungeons
    Raiding set gives u the bonus in raiding
    PvP /BG - set gives u a boost in BGs & open world pvp
    Arena set gives u bonus in arenas

    Yes it sounds tedious but man will it help the game so much imo. Anyway on topic i disagree with the template thingy.. hated in bgs and im sure ill hate it in pve too
    Yeah, I sure look forward to having to lug around at least 3 sets per spec, plus offpieces like trinkets. That sounds like tons of fun.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Yes, having no "lock out" on M+ does allow you to do this in a more repeatable fashion than M+
    Im confused. What are you saying here?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    So... Like..... Make mythic+ gears only usable for only Mythic+ and cannot be used for raiding purpose. Mythic vendors it with some unique currency or something.

    Raiding gear'd up shouldn't be used for mythic+ purpose. Like negate or something to make it weaker for mythic+ or something. IDK something like that.
    I have been a fan of this idea for a while. I want people to have meaningful progression in whatever their chosen pursuit is - open world, PvP, Raids, M+.
    As with you, i dont really have a silver bullet solution, and im aware when they tried this with pvp power and resilience, it didnt really work out, but i still think its the best way to go.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Yeah, I sure look forward to having to lug around at least 3 sets per spec, plus offpieces like trinkets. That sounds like tons of fun.
    Why would you have to "lug it around"? Banks are a thing for a reason. I just dont see a problem at all.

  5. #185
    FFXIV doesn't have M+ and their dungeons become stale as fuck as a result. OP plz

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post

    Why would you have to "lug it around"? Banks are a thing for a reason. I just dont see a problem at all.
    Keep my offspec sets in the bank, that also sounds great. Won't be annoying at all when I tank a M+ and forget to dredge my shit from the hundred+ items stored there.

    Plus I dislike the concept of an item being good in place X and terrible in place Y for reasons. I disliked that with Benthic gear and I would hate that with these sets that only solve a "problem" that exists in the head of some people who can't handle that raids aren't the exclusive be-all and end-all of PvE anymore.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Keep my offspec sets in the bank, that also sounds great. Won't be annoying at all when I tank a M+ and forget to dredge my shit from the hundred+ items stored there.

    Plus I dislike the concept of an item being good in place X and terrible in place Y for reasons. I disliked that with Benthic gear and I would hate that with these sets that only solve a "problem" that exists in the head of some people who can't handle that raids aren't the exclusive be-all and end-all of PvE anymore.
    These are two key factors of your argument, and they are both gross exagerations. First off, gear sets exist - you click on the bank, and then you click on your gear set, and it auto equips everything. Either you are completely aware of this, but intentionally ignore this fact to make it seem like some arduous task that would drain your energy, when it is infact literally 2 clicks of the mouse. Or, you are not aware of this, in which case im really not sure you should be talking about the design of the game at all.

    Same goes for the use of the word "terrible". No one mentioned that word, you used it to exaggerate the gap between gear sets. You intentionally make it sound like the gap between sets would be 50% or something extreme, when in reality we all know it would be 5-10% at absolute most.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Blizzard wanted M+ and raiding to be alternative paths of progression. Unfortunately they ran into the same problem as they did when they introduced arenas in TBC.

    They can't balance the classes around raiding because it will affect M+. They can't balance the classes around M+ because it will affect raiding.
    There are sizeable raiding-exclusive and m+-exclusive populations. They can't prioritize one over the other because it will cause subscriber losses in the long run.

    Raiding can't award powerful items because it will make raiding mandatory for M+ players. M+ can't award powerful items because it will make M+ mandatory for raiders. This is also why tier sets don't fit into the current design paradigm. When they tried to have unique and powerful rewards from different forms of content, Shadowmourne in WotLK arenas happened.

    There is an answer to this but no one wants to hear it. Templates for M+ and raiding. But since WoW's carrot on a stick is gear progression, most people won't stick around if you remove tangible gear rewards. If people don't feel their characters get stronger they'll start asking, what's the point of doing this? This is especially true in modern WoW's gear-centric RNGforged / corrupted design.

    Once the momentum from Legion wears off and more and more people realize that the current design is boring and unbalanced, participation will plummet. This is exactly what happened with arenas and rated PvP in general. Once people realized that Blizzard would never sacrifice raid balance in favor of PvP balance, they left. The initial hype from TBC sustained it into MoP but in WoD participation just got destroyed and never recovered. And back during the TBC-WoD period there was a much higher population to sustain continued arena participation.

    Remember when Arena World Championship was Blizzard's big event? Nobody gives a shit about that anymore. It's all about the Mythic Dungeon Invitational now. But it can only last so long until bad balance starts to drive people away. The writing is already on the wall with some meta classes (looking at you, rogues) being almost mandatory.

    This is a classic example of "try to please everyone and you won't please anyone". Except, well, people who play casually. Now is a great time to play casually. You have tons of different content to try and the problems don't become apparent until you reach the very top level. But the parallels between arena's decline and M+ are definitely there. M+ has already become more exclusionary and elitist compared to its Legion iteration.

    Tl;dr: Ion, you can't have both tight tuning and different forms of endgame content. Pick one. Super-competitive e-sports with tight tuning or casual gameplay with a variety of game modes. Can't have both.
    Templates isn't the only solution. Remember resilience? And I'm not sure why you would say that templates means you can't have gear progression either.

    If this became a big enough problem they would build gear that gets a bonus in the type of content it's intended to be used in, so that there was less overlap between m+ and raid gear.

    But it's not that big a problem. The reason is that m+ isn't really standalone content that compares to raiding. It's much easier to max out and you don't need perfect setups to do it. Perfect setups work better obviously, and I'm generally one who would like to see more homogenization between tanks and healers so that balance is less of a problem, but the problem isn't big enough that they need to rebuild their whole gear system.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    These are two key factors of your argument, and they are both gross exagerations. First off, gear sets exist - you click on the bank, and then you click on your gear set, and it auto equips everything. Either you are completely aware of this, but intentionally ignore this fact to make it seem like some arduous task that would drain your energy, when it is infact literally 2 clicks of the mouse. Or, you are not aware of this, in which case im really not sure you should be talking about the design of the game at all.

    Same goes for the use of the word "terrible". No one mentioned that word, you used it to exaggerate the gap between gear sets. You intentionally make it sound like the gap between sets would be 50% or something extreme, when in reality we all know it would be 5-10% at absolute most.
    It's not finding the items that would annoy me, but having to go to the bank. This game is enough of an inventory management simulator sometimes, I really don't want to start juggling dozens of items more, and I don't even PvP even. Separate sets for arenas and BGs? What the fuck kind of joke is this. Imagine a Druid or Shaman who uses 3 specs to some degree and engages in raids, M+ and arenas. That's up to 9 fucking different sets to farm and maintain. Even if just 2 specs that's 6 sets. It was annoying enough when you didn't get your 4pc or BiS Azerite armor early in a tier/season before, now multiply that sixfold.

    5-10% gap IS terrible if you're pushing content. Ask a Mythic raider or +20 key pusher if they want to do 5-10% less DPS or healing, they'll scream bloody murder. And for the rest, it just feels bad to perform below par in an activity because you haven't farmed enough of that particular activity. Gear should be gear. It shouldn't be harshly divided in M+ gear, raid gear, open world gear, BG gear, and arena gear.

    Blizzard tried to segregate gear like that, t'was called Resilience and it was horrible as well. The only time it kinda worked was in WoD when they made PvP gear have Mythic ilvl against players but Heroic against mobs, but even that was meh and only acceptable because it was PvP versus PvE. If you segregate gear like that, you just encourage people to tunnel one facet of the game and completely ignore the rest. Yeah, some people may want to raidlog, but the rest of us like more than one activity, and I sure as fuck don't want to be crippled in M+ because I don't spend my life running it, all in the name of satisfying the snowflake syndrome of people who think the best gear should come from raids and only ever from raids.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    These are two key factors of your argument, and they are both gross exagerations. First off, gear sets exist - you click on the bank, and then you click on your gear set, and it auto equips everything. Either you are completely aware of this, but intentionally ignore this fact to make it seem like some arduous task that would drain your energy, when it is infact literally 2 clicks of the mouse. Or, you are not aware of this, in which case im really not sure you should be talking about the design of the game at all.

    Same goes for the use of the word "terrible". No one mentioned that word, you used it to exaggerate the gap between gear sets. You intentionally make it sound like the gap between sets would be 50% or something extreme, when in reality we all know it would be 5-10% at absolute most.
    5-10% is a lot when you're a player who likes to always be performing at their best. Artificial restrictions like this would discourage a player like me from doing this content. Right now, I can do both and I'm happy that I can do both. Raiding doesn't suffer from this nor does M+. But with a system where gear is tailor fit for each type of content, now I have to worry about investing time into both types of content to get the same sense of accomplishment I do now. Rather than commit myself to that, I'd probably just avoid one type of content all together. So now you have a player who easily would have been able to do both types of content having to consciously decide where to hone my efforts. On the scale of a single player this may seem insignificant but if you were to expand this to 10-20% of the current endgame content playerbase and suddenly that wait for a tank on your M+ PuG goes from manageable to not even worth the effort.

    Obviously, it's possible I'm grossly over estimating the amount of people who care about their performance the way I do; however, I still don't think a system like this would serve to do much other than further segregate an already fairly fragmented playerbase. Imo, the problem it's looking to solve -- gear is boring -- isn't nearly as bad as the other problems this type of solution creates.

  11. #191
    As a ce player i hate M+ since day one.
    If it wasn't for the weekly cache, i wouldn't step foot it them, ever.
    c

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    It's not finding the items that would annoy me, but having to go to the bank. This game is enough of an inventory management simulator sometimes, I really don't want to start juggling dozens of items more, and I don't even PvP even. Separate sets for arenas and BGs? What the fuck kind of joke is this. Imagine a Druid or Shaman who uses 3 specs to some degree and engages in raids, M+ and arenas. That's up to 9 fucking different sets to farm and maintain. Even if just 2 specs that's 6 sets. It was annoying enough when you didn't get your 4pc or BiS Azerite armor early in a tier/season before, now multiply that sixfold.

    5-10% gap IS terrible if you're pushing content. Ask a Mythic raider or +20 key pusher if they want to do 5-10% less DPS or healing, they'll scream bloody murder. And for the rest, it just feels bad to perform below par in an activity because you haven't farmed enough of that particular activity. Gear should be gear. It shouldn't be harshly divided in M+ gear, raid gear, open world gear, BG gear, and arena gear.

    Blizzard tried to segregate gear like that, t'was called Resilience and it was horrible as well. The only time it kinda worked was in WoD when they made PvP gear have Mythic ilvl against players but Heroic against mobs, but even that was meh and only acceptable because it was PvP versus PvE. If you segregate gear like that, you just encourage people to tunnel one facet of the game and completely ignore the rest. Yeah, some people may want to raidlog, but the rest of us like more than one activity, and I sure as fuck don't want to be crippled in M+ because I don't spend my life running it, all in the name of satisfying the snowflake syndrome of people who think the best gear should come from raids and only ever from raids.
    Again, your argument is completely idiotic. If you care about the content and a 5% gap in performance so much, you would get the right gear. Jesus Christ how is this hard for you to understand? Who the hell starts at m+20? Lolol, do you not realise how stupid that is to say? If they are running enough m+ to be doing a +20 or higher, they will already be decked out in m+ gear.

    I am honestly gobsmacked that you can't understand such a simple concept.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    For me, the fix would be really simple:

    Dungeon gear with an item level above baseline mythics can't be worn in raids.

    Raid gear can't be worn at all in mythic+ dungeons.

    PvE gear can't be worn at all in PvP and vice versa.

    Bring back gear sets with different bonuses for all of these activities. Enable players to say "my endgame is pvp/mythic+/raiding" instead of having it all be complementary to each other.
    And here is what I think is the problem. Gear. Loot. It is all about who gets what from doing what.

    Personally, I rather not carry multiple sets of gears around.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Again, your argument is completely idiotic. If you care about the content and a 5% gap in performance so much, you would get the right gear. Jesus Christ how is this hard for you to understand? Who the hell starts at m+20? Lolol, do you not realise how stupid that is to say? If they are running enough m+ to be doing a +20 or higher, they will already be decked out in m+ gear.

    I am honestly gobsmacked that you can't understand such a simple concept.
    I'm running +15s and barely have any M+ pieces at all in either of my gearsets, only one Azerite piece in my tank set and a weapon in my DPS one. Guildies who do run +18/19/20s have maybe 3 or 4 M+ pieces max, the rest is all raid (and Benthic in EP obviously) gear. So no, we wouldn't be, we would have to farm an entirely separate gearset to perform at the same levels we do right now. Transitioning from one type of content to the other shouldn't inflict that much of a handicap. And if the M+ set bonus is easy to get so much so that you don't need to farm it, then what's the point of it existing in the first place?

    You're insisting on a model that increases farming requirements (potentially by a lot, especially for multiple specs), clog up player bags, creates artificial barriers between content that is similar enough, and would perhaps foster even more toxicity than now ("LFM +10, have full M+ gearset or get fucked"). And what's the gain, exactly? That a few raiders don't have to touch icky ugly M+ ever? Be still, my heart, as if the game doesn't already bend over backwards for us raiders.

    Also noticed you stay fixated on the 5% point and completely ignore the other arguments in favor of insults. That's not exactly inspiring confidence.

  15. #195
    Mechagnome Mask's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Ironforge
    Posts
    690
    The solution is to have unique and desirable loot from each of M+, arenas, and raiding. If people want to do all 3 pillars of play to get their choice from absolutely every cool item in the game then let them. Don't make it a requirement to progress, but also don't make it useless for the people who want to explore the whole game in every way.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I'm running +15s and barely have any M+ pieces at all in either of my gearsets, only one Azerite piece in my tank set and a weapon in my DPS one. Guildies who do run +18/19/20s have maybe 3 or 4 M+ pieces max, the rest is all raid (and Benthic in EP obviously) gear. So no, we wouldn't be, we would have to farm an entirely separate gearset to perform at the same levels we do right now. Transitioning from one type of content to the other shouldn't inflict that much of a handicap. And if the M+ set bonus is easy to get so much so that you don't need to farm it, then what's the point of it existing in the first place?

    You're insisting on a model that increases farming requirements (potentially by a lot, especially for multiple specs), clog up player bags, creates artificial barriers between content that is similar enough, and would perhaps foster even more toxicity than now ("LFM +10, have full M+ gearset or get fucked"). And what's the gain, exactly? That a few raiders don't have to touch icky ugly M+ ever? Be still, my heart, as if the game doesn't already bend over backwards for us raiders.

    Also noticed you stay fixated on the 5% point and completely ignore the other arguments in favor of insults. That's not exactly inspiring confidence.
    OK first off, no one is "insisting on" anything, i am suggesting an alternative to the current system. Every time you reply you use EXTREME exaggeration in every respect. Honestly, your argument is almost entirely formed from fallacies. Since when has M+ been "close enough" to mythic raiding? The two have almost nothing in common. And you keep only focusing on M+ and Mythic raiding, while ingoring the FACT that the majority of players don't do either.

    You seem to have an extremely self centered view of how things should be, while ignoring the overwhelming majority of the player base. You seem to fail to understand basic concepts, and think using "me and my guildies" while again ignoring the overwhelming percentage of the player base who is not you, or your guildies.

    You alos rely on completely fabricated "potential" outcomes of this model that im apparently "insisting" on - while ignoring all potential benefits of such a system. It would be much easier to identify a players ability just by inspecting them, for example. The number of high score M+ players that have come to a pug raid and performed absolutely terribly is amazing to me - but at the end of the day, despite you idiotically claiming they are "close enough" (lol, cant get over that comment), they are entirely different forms of content.

    Your argument boils down to this:

    you want to be able to perform at the same lvl in all content, simply because you raid
    you think it will clog everyone's bags up
    ...
    .
    that's it really.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    OK first off, no one is "insisting on" anything, i am suggesting an alternative to the current system. Every time you reply you use EXTREME exaggeration in every respect. Honestly, your argument is almost entirely formed from fallacies. Since when has M+ been "close enough" to mythic raiding? The two have almost nothing in common. And you keep only focusing on M+ and Mythic raiding, while ingoring the FACT that the majority of players don't do either.

    You seem to have an extremely self centered view of how things should be, while ignoring the overwhelming majority of the player base. You seem to fail to understand basic concepts, and think using "me and my guildies" while again ignoring the overwhelming percentage of the player base who is not you, or your guildies.

    You alos rely on completely fabricated "potential" outcomes of this model that im apparently "insisting" on - while ignoring all potential benefits of such a system. It would be much easier to identify a players ability just by inspecting them, for example. The number of high score M+ players that have come to a pug raid and performed absolutely terribly is amazing to me - but at the end of the day, despite you idiotically claiming they are "close enough" (lol, cant get over that comment), they are entirely different forms of content.

    Your argument boils down to this:

    you want to be able to perform at the same lvl in all content, simply because you raid
    you think it will clog everyone's bags up
    ...
    .
    that's it really.
    As if gear was ever a foolproof indicator of skill. Why do you believe RIO or more detailed pug requirements exist in the first place? Your only stated benefit is lackluster at best.

    And yeah, I'm speaking for myself and the people I know, and not for "the overwhelming majority of the playerbase", unlike some. I'm quite comfortable with that, and if your only reaction to such a thing is to try and paint me as some unreasonable idiot, then have it your way but I see no reason to waste further time with you discussing a bad idea.
    Last edited by Jastall; 2019-12-09 at 07:19 AM.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    You don't 'have' to unless you're pushing for world firsts, and people that push for world firsts are always going to push things to the limit. You don't have to optimize every aspect of play. It is perfectly viaable to raid without touching M+ and vice versa.
    It's the exact opposite and people keep falling in this trap.
    If you go world 1st, you don't need M+. You are going to clear the raid on Week 1, maybe 2. So 1-2 chests max.
    How much M+ 440 gear do you think Method had when they progressed EP Mythic? Almost nothing, they played with previous tier gear.

    The rest of the suckers of the mythic raiding "scene" are steadily farming the 440 gear to help them boost the HC gear raid, to be able to at least do a 5/8 or 6/8 before the next patch.

    So I hope I am clear: the slower you progress in mythic, the more you need the M+ for gearing.

  19. #199
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Strasbourg
    Posts
    1,062
    Katie N
    I should have to collect 16 sets to play the game?
    How about returning "2-active-builds system", which initially assumed 1 PvP build and 1 PvE build (as an option for especially lazy: raid vs lvling)

    All because class design is in the @$$ and they decided to give everyone opportunity to change specs to left and right without brain, they couldn't balance stuff, they couldn't organize normal working system since "times", therefore you have too many freedoms in current design (as an options, not as choices), and that’s why your eyes goes round in different directions, you want everything and without any problems, this won't happen.

    Offhand: return linear PvE progress (no M+ and multi-difficulties system in form in which it's now), return PvP/PvE rating characteristics (res/hit, etc., any automaton&scaling goes to hell), rework system of classes and talents to digestible one (and not this nonsense which is now) and leave 2 active builds (it's your problems, how you will use them - heal/tank, dd/heal, quests/raid, PvP/PvE, that shouldn't concern devs). That's all. Now you have limitations, and need to make choice in connection with this, you have motivation for progress, and 2 ways to follow it, everything is simple and no idiotic all-forgiveness and permissiveness

    Once upon a time, friend even laughed about new system just in this vein (see highlighted part):
    - (17.03.2016) -
    Problem isn't even in fact that it will be expensive:
    - tl;dr - <url>
    (some words in russian <url>)
    Problem is that current talent system (and they are not in classic sense of talent, it's just perks) is generally stupid

    things like this <1>, <2>+<3>+<4>, <5>, <6>, <7>, <8>, controversion <9> are aftermath part of your new perk system

    System worked and was justified only if there were trees <url> and player could create something "hybrid"/universal/specific (<url> <url>) of a set of points that he had. But now (in new) we are faced with a system which simply doesn't have specializations (+ talents went full only specific), but only classes (there is no anything in common now between two specializations of class (it's not for gameplay, but only for set of spells)), but still there is no "talent-trees", there is only perks (which aren't clear for what we even get in terms of role-play <url> <url> <url>) Fee for "class" change in general shouldn't be charged because for the game it's forbidden to change it

    Btw, talent - this is what you get from mother nature, and you have work for open (developing) it in a certain direction, and then develop it more, but ability - something that you can learn somewhere (also there wasn't any "unnecessary stats" before and even spirit and intellect give something for warriors <url>)
    First post here.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-05-15 at 08:35 AM.
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by DeusX View Post
    It's the exact opposite and people keep falling in this trap.
    If you go world 1st, you don't need M+. You are going to clear the raid on Week 1, maybe 2. So 1-2 chests max.
    How much M+ 440 gear do you think Method had when they progressed EP Mythic? Almost nothing, they played with previous tier gear.

    The rest of the suckers of the mythic raiding "scene" are steadily farming the 440 gear to help them boost the HC gear raid, to be able to at least do a 5/8 or 6/8 before the next patch.

    So I hope I am clear: the slower you progress in mythic, the more you need the M+ for gearing.
    Mythic+ is the soft nerf to raid bosses. You get gear in M+ that you would've gotten from getting your shit pushed in on every boss past ashvane.
    That's why a lot of mid/low tier mythic raid guilds can afford to extend their lockout almost indefinitely. I can't say whether or not getting guaranteed (almost) mythic gear every week is a good thing for everyone, but it's surely a decent thing for the mom+pops guilds that want to progress, in my opinion.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •