Yeah, better use statistics with a huge blind spot, right?
Funny you say that.
Despite that fact i wrote an entire paragraph on "this is not about the difficulty".
Again, your statistic simply leaves out the fact that players might not do dungeon because they hate it.
Let alone if they deplete the key.
Because this a requirement for the achievement that you are using as proof.
Then you look for other people.
You can even achieve Ilvl 400 within days of playing without even entering a single M+, which suffices for M+10.
Then you don't go into the dungeon where the terrible rings drop and go where the good ones are...?
I don't think the crowd that doesn't raid mythic seriously cares whether they get those Azerite pieces within week one or two.
It's just one of those things like AP, where the most efficient thing is to simply use those super efficient weekly rewards than just playing the game.
That even assumes that you play with Font correctly, whereas most M+ trinkets are pretty straightforward.
The absolute gain is your dps result.
I would say that matters.
So yeah, i stand by it, sockets on rings are at the end of day not more valueable, because the value of a socket is not dependant on the slot it is on.
Two items on five people...so you got still a 40% on an item, sounds pretty good to me.
Too bad that WoW is a progression based RPG where gear / power is the core of the reward system.
I wouldn't give a hoot about M+ if it wasn't the most efficient one and one of the primary reasons why you ditch your entire gear within days whenever a new patch comes out.
Gear as a progression system is absolutely broken, M+ is one of the major culprits on that front, both in design and in terms of rewards.
And in the light of recent class changes, they're also balancing classes around M+, so yeah, "good" for those people who want to play Resto Druid outside of M+.
The fact that they even design future systems such as the Covenant racial abilities primarily towards M+ doesn't make me exactly happy either.
Considering we're talking about people who are below mythic, they don't look at 2k dps the same way a mythic raider does.
Organization is most certainly a factor.
But raiding requires more people and are far harder to carry someone through that due to that.
Yeah, because they're far easier to organize and on top of that even if you deplete key you're rewarded with End of Dungeon + Weekly reward, whereas in a raid, if you do not kill a boss, you are not getting anything.
The lack of a lockout makes it easy enough for anyone that can clear M+10 to complete their progression within days unless they also have the intention to also enter Mythic raids.
Blizzard obviously doesn't want that people complete their progression that fast, so they implemented systems like Titanforging and the weekly chest so people could still get technically an upgrade.
And especially Titanforging is not good for the game, yet M+ basically requires it to function.
Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-12-06 at 11:12 PM.
I mean, are there major differences in group setups? The classes you see topping meters in raids are essentially the ones doing it m+. Perhaps you don't see locks or hunters up high, but DHs, rogues and mages are essentially the ones pulling the weight.
TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.
Ah yes, the latest solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Your entire analogy falls flat on its face the second you consider the amount of overlap there is between M+ and raiding. If anything, shit was actually worse in MoP and WoD when CModes were a thing because then raiding trinkets actually DID have a huge impact on balance.
and i said that arenas past wrath had more problems than in wrath.. but it was still pretty good in cata and mop
you're being daft, you said that they made changes because of pvp and your only explanation is that it has to be because of pvp because if affected pvp more, but it doesn't matter which part of the game was affected because blizzard almost never make major changes to the game because of pvp.. also it had a lot of impact on pve.. all healers having dispel is a major pve change because now you can bring every healer to the raid and you don't need to bring a certain class simply for dispel, same with kicks and almost every single other change. Just because at the end of the day it affected pvp more doesn't matter.. also these changes actually made pvp worse more often than not(yes, giving every healer dispel, making dispel have a cd, giving rets kick and all the other changes they've made to the game since wrath made pvp much worse)
also source for what? that they dropped WoW? well you answered it yourself cuz now only Blizzard are hosting tournaments
Getting a carry in a M+ is significantly easier than getting carried in a raid. All you have to do is list yourself as MY KEY YOUR CARRY and you can easily run 10+ keys. I did it on an alt of mine and while you do have to work through a few low level keys at first, if you're willing to put the 'effort' into making your own group then it's very easy to get carried.
In a raid, the only thing you can really try to offer is a specific boss lockout, which doesn't give you nearly as much bargaining power.
The problem with raiding, m+ and pvp is they don’t have separate paths of progression. The gear is exactly the same for all 3 forms of content.
The need to make the gear progression separate and specialized for each type of content.
This can be done with resilience returning for pvp.
M+ can get set items and legendaries specialized for 5 man content. Imagine if hunters and shamans got a 2 piece set that gave them something similar to the rogues shroud. This would remove the “requirement” of needing a rogue and give other classes a different option in gearing that could be interesting. This could easily be expanded on to give make m+ gearing interesting and unique compared to pvp and raiding.
If blizzard expanded on gearing to give unique rewards based on content they could fix a lot of these problems. This could also be used to give casual or collectors gearing options for them. Like speed sets for running older content.
Ew. The problem with activity-specific gear is that it very incorrectly assumes that certain players only ever engage in certain types on content. I'm pretty sure that's the precise reason Resilience was removed in the first place. Yeah, it'd be great for the players who only ever do that single type of content but part of the beauty of the current system is that M+ and raiding are symbiotic. Putting back things like Resilience then adding another set of gear for M+ would serve only to further fracture the playerbase and engagement in all three activities would almost surely plummet.
That's your own problem though, not the games, since you are forcing yourself to do content you don't like. If progression required me to play 10 Pet Battles Trainer battles a day, I simply just wouldn't do it. As I said if you feel a videogame is forcing you to do something you likely are weak willed or in many People's cases an idiot.
Neither is mutually exclusive though.
You do realise that there where Templates in PvP right in Legion for example and most people didnt like it. BFA is what? ILvL scaling in PvP atm? Still shit....
And im sorry but do you really want Templates for everything? I mostly wont, having Blizz dictate Stats is the stupidest thing that could happen. People are still shitting on them because of the removal of Reforging because their itemization is abysmal and that did happen when? WoD right? so around 5-6 Years ago . Now imagine what will happen when Gear is even less important because it does shit all, more people would prob quit then anything else.
It´s an MMO with loot, so to get rid of one problem and make a change to Templates you prob have to remove the whole loot thingy in terms of Gear and i dont know if a Player would really like that. How will you determine if you got Stronger? Some minor number chance in a UI would prob not be satisfying compared to getting that nice Weapon which has 30 more Ilvl then your current one after Weeks and Weeks of lets say M+.
It´s a 15 Year Old Game, change is good yes but i think that changing this "fundamental" system of WoW ,that existed from the very beginning, would do more damage then good.
Resilience was removed because Blizz could never figure out what to do with it, as it went through I think 3-4 changes in BC alone, let alone its other changes over time. It was actually an amazing bear tank stat at one point, because it would allow bears to reach crit cap without having to stack defense rating. In reality, we still have resilience on our gear in BfA in the form of Versatility, which basically accomplishes what most versions of resilience/PvP power did: flat damage gains and damage reduction.
As I mentioned in a previous post, having stuff drop in different types of content isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if it is semi-tailored to the content. We already have this in BfA with Essences, where even mythic raiders are using essences only obtainable in M+ and PvP. You don't have to obtain these necessarily, but the bar is usually set low enough that you don't have to constantly do the activity to get what you need (rank 4 is the exception, but it's purely cosmetic). Even then, you'll do pretty well with generic Essences.
“Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
“It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
Some distinction is fine but the guy I quoted seemed to envision a version of WoW with raid specific gear, PvP specific gear and M+ specific gear. And while there are obvious benefits for players who only engage in one of those activities, unless the bar is set so low it doesn't really matter... all you effectively do is force players to carry even more gear in their bags and isolate/segregate the playerbase even further. I just can't see something like that panning out very well in practice.
That’s not true, even when there was resilience u were required to raid if u wanted to min-max your character. U can have content specific gear that overlaps for the min-maxers. While giving those players who only want to do one type of content unique and rewarding items.
Gear is boring now, it’s all the same. You don’t get excited seeing geared out characters anymore. The game has become completely soulless. It’s part of the reason I was against blizzard removing the dh powerleveling thing. It was something unique and cool, and players put a lot of time and effort into building their character for. It would have solved itself on the long run anyways, should have just let players enjoy their fun.
When resilience was around wow was at its best. A lot of people raided and did pvp. Just because resilience was removed doesn’t mean it was a good idea.
Last edited by Nfinitii; 2019-12-07 at 11:17 AM.
Since when does Blizzard give a flying F**** about player having fun?
Getting Gold trough old Raids? Nah cant be, People could think its mandatory so get rid of it
Quick level trough the Game esp. WoD with the MoP Exp Flask? Cant have that get rid of it
Classes being fun? But there are to many Buttons!! Get rid of it
10 Man raiding? So hard to Balance! Get rid of it (fun fact Flex works just fine so there never was a need to remove 10 man raiding in my opinion)
Gear thats means something and you can work towards a goal and customize it so it plays into the strengths of your Class/Specc? Get rid of....wait nah just remove the Customization and throw it at the Players like it is for free!
So many things over the Years i prob only remember a tiny portion of it.
Good thing is different People enjoy different things, but things that we enjoy and Blizz thinks they are not good for the Game will always be removed or well should we call it "reworked"? (someone remember the " we dont want you to play Demonology atm" Quote from Ion?^^)
And yet in Wotlk, you still had 10man encounters that required dispels and Interrupt and people could still do them.
PvE would've been just fine without these changes, because even in Wotlk that wasn't an issue for people.
In Wotlk, enough Classes had interrupts that you had at least 2-3 of them, a raid without interrupts would have consisted out of:
Paladin
Hunter
Priest
Non Feral Druids
Doesn't sound like a common setup.
Same goes for dispels, if you just had a single priest, paladin or warlock you were absolutely fine, that wasn't a problem.
You can keep pointing at "muh PvE" but that doesn't change the fact that these were non issues even in 10man raids, but were a big deal in PvP.
Your explanation that it was a big deal for PvE is just flat out wrong, because they removed the dispels from non healing classes.
Previously, if an encounter had a magic debuff, any Paladin, Priest or Warlock could dispel it, you didn't have to bring a "specific" healer, just one of three specific classes.
Because let's be clear on that, the removal of the regular magic dispel from Priest / Paladin wasn't a PvE specific change either, unless you want to tell me that SP and Prot / Ret were super OP in PvE because they had magic dispel, which they weren't.
That would mean they wanted the monopoly on WoW E-sports, not they're ditching it.
If they ditched it, they wouldn't host tournaments themselves.
These two things are very different.
Or the video game is just poorly designed and puts its rewards into the wrong place.
Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-12-07 at 12:41 PM.
Yeah I would like to c gear tailored to the content you do. And there will most likely be some overlap like there was in the past. Currently it doesn’t matter where u get ur gear, b/c it’s all the same bland old shit.
It’s not like carrying multiple sets is a problem. I used to carry multiple sets back in the day, a tanking set, pvp set, raiding set. Healing, dps and pvp sets on alts. I’m sure most players carry a lot of gear with them now b/c of how the azerite system works. And the new corruption mechanic is going to force players to hold onto gear, b/c u don’t want ur corruption to get to high so u will want some none corrupted gear to replace ur corrupted gear when u get new pieces.
Ur not going to segregate the player base with specialized gear for content, if someone doesn’t want to raid they won’t raid. And the min/maxers will still do all the content as long as there is some overlap between gear sets. I’m ok with someone’s bis being a mix between m+ and raid gear.
Gear is not exciting to me in its current iteration.
it's like you cant even read.. first of all blizzard said that in 2010, secondly it's other organizations that dropped it because of it, Blizzard never said that there will be no blizzcon tournament, they do tournaments for every single game they have besides primarily pve games like diablo. Yeah they started to care about WoW eSports a bit more as of late, but that's too little to late, because they've already ruined the game and pvp participation is shit
also you keep saying that what matters the most is how things were before and what was affected by change the most and the thing that was affected the most must be the reason why things were changed, but its not the case.. it's just not