Stadia and WoW.

[Shelly]

No, not "is WoW coming to Stadia" but rather I wonder how much Blizz is looking at what's being done with Stadia, especially as Google iterates on the platform to make it better.

I mean for the most part WoW isn't handled locally on your computer. You download a bunch of art files and sounds and then it's just down to input lag.

So what would be the downsides and upsides for WoW (or any MMO really) to swap to a streamed game?

Pros:
Protection from Data-mining.
Protection from weird addons that you might not want.
Players all get to play on the "best" settings.
Wider audience where you can basically have people spend $75 on a bluetooth keyboard and mouse with a dongle like a fireTV or chromecast rather than $400+ PC.

Cons:
Lack of addons - specifically in WoW - would be contentious since much of the audience requires those addons to perform at all. (Tell your guild you don't use weak auras and have a stock UI and see what response you get.)
Might require even heavier sharding for zones with multiple things going on and huge numbers connected. Think Crystalshard Dalaran levels of lag.
Less input for UI enhancement without a large modding community to draw inspiration from.

So is a possible WoW streaming service in the offing? Would you be willing to sign up for it? Would you expect to pay the same for it or would expect to pay more or even less?

[crakerjack]

What's wrong with a stock UI?

[glowpipe]

the faster stadia dies. The better for gamers

[Shelly]

What's wrong with a stock UI?

To me? Nothing.

However running stock puts you in the deep minority. Most players don't like it because it's not good about reminding you to use things the way weak auras is, doesn't have a 3rd row slot for stacking things, takes up a lot of room and from what I understand the mouseover macros for healers are rather clunky unless worked into a healing specific UI.

[Mirishka]

No, not "is WoW coming to Stadia" but rather I wonder how much Blizz is looking at what's being done with Stadia, especially as Google iterates on the platform to make it better.

I mean for the most part WoW isn't handled locally on your computer. You download a bunch of art files and sounds and then it's just down to input lag.

*snip*

An MMO streaming over a service like Stadia sounds like a trainwreck waiting to happen. No thanks.

[Raelyn]

No, not "is WoW coming to Stadia" but rather I wonder how much Blizz is looking at what's being done with Stadia, especially as Google iterates on the platform to make it better.

I mean for the most part WoW isn't handled locally on your computer. You download a bunch of art files and sounds and then it's just down to input lag.

So what would be the downsides and upsides for WoW (or any MMO really) to swap to a streamed game?

Pros:
Protection from Data-mining.
Protection from weird addons that you might not want.
Players all get to play on the "best" settings.
Wider audience where you can basically have people spend $75 on a bluetooth keyboard and mouse with a dongle like a fireTV or chromecast rather than $400+ PC.

Cons:
Lack of addons - specifically in WoW - would be contentious since much of the audience requires those addons to perform at all. (Tell your guild you don't use weak auras and have a stock UI and see what response you get.)
Might require even heavier sharding for zones with multiple things going on and huge numbers connected. Think Crystalshard Dalaran levels of lag.
Less input for UI enhancement without a large modding community to draw inspiration from.

So is a possible WoW streaming service in the offing? Would you be willing to sign up for it? Would you expect to pay the same for it or would expect to pay more or even less?

When was the last time anyone brought a PC for $400 that could play games?? 1999??

[LordVargK]

Sooo, little Pros for the consumer (best settings doesn't mean much if you are capped by your bandwidth)? And not really Pros for Blizzard, as they would have to create a HUGE infrastructure or rent servers, which would cost them millions if not billions of Dollars with no real benefit, as very few people would tolerate a increase in Sub costs for a 15 year old game.

Also no Addons would be a reason for me to never touch WoW again. Addon support is something very special about WoW and the lack of Addons (particulary DPS-Meters) kept me from playing other MMOs in the past. Yes, you could call me a damage whore, but I would describe myself as a min-max enthusiast. Games where I can't measure my effiency are not really worth playing for me.

As for a future MMO: It's very, VERY risky. The upfront costs of an MMO are really high as is and to set up an streaming system would break the financial limit of all companies. It's no coincidence that only the biggest whales on the market invest in streaming games. And it's not even remotely sure if that pays off.

When was the last time anyone brought a PC for $400 that could play games?? 1999??

Well, to play WoW you don't need that much. 100€ AMD processor, 100€ AMD graphics card, 100€ for cheap mainboard and Ram and 100€ for Power, HDD and Case is really all you need to play WoW on low/medium settings.

[Shelly]

No. Just no. Stop having stupid ideas like this.

How so?

When WoW launched it was able to capture a huge audience by simply being playable on potato level computers.

As WoW updates with each expansion the system requirements continue to grow as the art increases in fidelity and they do stuff like add greater draw distance.

WoW is still processor bottlenecked which can limit even exceptionally good computers.

Going to a streamed game makes a lot of sense, it allows the game to be shown the way the devs want it to, it gives the devs specific hardware to program to rather than trying to match a spectrum of systems and for a game like WoW where you technically don't own anything anyway it makes sense to me at least.

[MoanaLisa]

Stadia is something like $10 a month. That on top of $15/month to play WoW? That seems very unlikely to be a success. Blizzard has zero reason to give any part of their subscription fee to Stadia so likely the cost to play goes up.

edit: Forgot the $130 to start up on Stadia. Given how many people here only seem to play one game or that the vast majority of their gaming time goes into WoW, I don't see this happening at all.

[RaZz0r]

The biggest problem with " game streaming " is that the internet infrastructure just cant handle it.
Especially in the US where a lot of ISP's have a massive monopoly where they get away with selling really overpriced shit connections.
As they are the only provider in some areas or just really bad connections overall where they stuck to like 10Mbps down and even less in up.

Which just wont work for games streaming so unless ISP's stop being greedy and want to provide a good service for there customers.
Combined with upgrading the old copper cables with fiber connections world wide which just wont happen at least not within the next 10+ years.
Considering the US is still trying to turn the internet to a cable tv subscription where you need to pay extra to gain access to various websites.
And that is already the reality in some places.

So unless it becomes the ONLY option then fuck no the con of no addons alone is enough to put me off as addons is not optional in mythic raiding.

[Shelly]

Sooo, little Pros for the consumer (best settings doesn't mean much if you are capped by your bandwidth)? And not really Pros for Blizzard, as they would have to create a HUGE infrastructure or rent servers, which would cost them millions if not billions of Dollars with no real benefit, as very few people would tolerate a increase in Sub costs for a 15 year old game.

Also no Addons would be a reason for me to never touch WoW again. Addon support is something very special about WoW and the lack of Addons (particulary DPS-Meters) kept me from playing other MMOs in the past. Yes, you could call me a damage whore, but I would describe myself as a min-max enthusiast. Games where I can't measure my effiency are not really worth playing for me.

As for a future MMO: It's very, VERY risky. The upfront costs of an MMO are really high as is and to set up an streaming system would break the financial limit of all companies. It's no coincidence that only the biggest whales on the market invest in streaming games. And it's not even remotely sure if that pays off.

I'm only looking at the future and for WoW, where you have an established audience and those funds it could be pretty tempting. Especially if it allowed the audience to expand.

Best settings could mean a lot for players, I remember the last time I upgraded my PC just before Legion and thinking to myself how much prettier the game was.

Whether or not the price increases is also purely speculative.

I agree that the loss of addons would suck. I also like my DPS meter, mostly because it lets me gauge improvement.

However when it comes to WoW, and any MMO, we don't really own our characters. So it seems the one genre that is most amicable to a server only swap.

- - - Updated - - -

Stadia is something like $10 a month. That on top of $15/month to play WoW? That seems very unlikely to be a success. Blizzard has zero reason to give any part of their subscription fee to Stadia so likely the cost to play goes up.

My thought was that WoW would probably create their own in-house streaming service that would use a chromecast or firestick, much the same as how Netflix, Hulu and Youtube do.

[agentsi]

No, not "is WoW coming to Stadia" but rather I wonder how much Blizz is looking at what's being done with Stadia, especially as Google iterates on the platform to make it better.

I mean for the most part WoW isn't handled locally on your computer. You download a bunch of art files and sounds and then it's just down to input lag.

So what would be the downsides and upsides for WoW (or any MMO really) to swap to a streamed game?

Pros:
Protection from Data-mining.
Protection from weird addons that you might not want.
Players all get to play on the "best" settings.
Wider audience where you can basically have people spend $75 on a bluetooth keyboard and mouse with a dongle like a fireTV or chromecast rather than $400+ PC.

Cons:
Lack of addons - specifically in WoW - would be contentious since much of the audience requires those addons to perform at all. (Tell your guild you don't use weak auras and have a stock UI and see what response you get.)
Might require even heavier sharding for zones with multiple things going on and huge numbers connected. Think Crystalshard Dalaran levels of lag.
Less input for UI enhancement without a large modding community to draw inspiration from.

So is a possible WoW streaming service in the offing? Would you be willing to sign up for it? Would you expect to pay the same for it or would expect to pay more or even less?

I don't think you know how computers work.

WoW takes an immense amount of CPU processing and a decent amount of GPU processing as well. To run at 4k, my GPU can barely do 60fps in raids, but open world is not a problem. But to make such a statement that wow isn't handled locally, is honestly, fucking idiotic. Again, it requires much more than could ever be handled over a streaming device. I can't tell if this is genuine ignorance because of the clear lack of tech knowledge, or just someone fumbling through the internet looking for a bite.

[GreenJesus]

I'm only looking at the future and for WoW, where you have an established audience and those funds it could be pretty tempting. Especially if it allowed the audience to expand.

Best settings could mean a lot for players, I remember the last time I upgraded my PC just before Legion and thinking to myself how much prettier the game was.

Whether or not the price increases is also purely speculative.

I agree that the loss of addons would suck. I also like my DPS meter, mostly because it lets me gauge improvement.

However when it comes to WoW, and any MMO, we don't really own our characters. So it seems the one genre that is most amicable to a server only swap.

- - - Updated - - -



My thought was that WoW would probably create their own in-house streaming service that would use a chromecast or firestick, much the same as how Netflix, Hulu and Youtube do.

But why? I feel like porting to console would be a better first move rather than doing this whole streaming nonsense. If they haven't ported the game to console yet (like ESO or FF14 or Monster hunter) then what makes you think they would want to do stadia?

[MoanaLisa]

My thought was that WoW would probably create their own in-house streaming service that would use a chromecast or firestick, much the same as how Netflix, Hulu and Youtube do.

That many GB-size client on your PC is doing a lot of work. There's more going on locally than you seem to think.

[Shelly]

That many GB-size client on your PC is doing a lot of work. There's more going on locally than you seem to think.

WoW is 84.5gb, AC: Odyssey is 46gb, Cyberpunk 2077 is expected to be at least 80gb.

- - - Updated - - -

But why? I feel like porting to console would be a better first move rather than doing this whole streaming nonsense. If they haven't ported the game to console yet (like ESO or FF14 or Monster hunter) then what makes you think they would want to do stadia?

I only used "stadia" as that's the only games-as-streaming-content service that I know of. I'm not talking about them porting it, I'm talking about them using streaming devices to allow WoW to be played with no computer.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think you know how computers work.

WoW takes an immense amount of CPU processing and a decent amount of GPU processing as well. To run at 4k, my GPU can barely do 60fps in raids, but open world is not a problem. But to make such a statement that wow isn't handled locally, is honestly, fucking idiotic. Again, it requires much more than could ever be handled over a streaming device. I can't tell if this is genuine ignorance because of the clear lack of tech knowledge, or just someone fumbling through the internet looking for a bite.

Games as streaming services like Stadia are attempting to offload that GPS and processing power to servers rather than a local computer. Seems like WoW or any other server based game would be ripe for a streamed market option.

[MoanaLisa]

WoW is 84.5gb, AC: Odyssey is 46gb, Cyberpunk 2077 is expected to be at least 80gb.

OK. If all you took away from that was the size of the client without consideration of the game genre and type then I don't know how to explain it to you. Suffice it to say that Assassin's Creed and Cyberpunk 2077 are not MMORPG's.

Regardless, I don't see how playing WoW on a TV or monitor without a computer involved would ever be a pleasant experience. As I said before, there's a LOT more going on locally than you seem to think.

[Shelly]

OK. If all you took away from that was the size of the client without consideration of the game genre and type then I don't know how to explain it to you. Suffice it to say that Assassin's Creed and Cyberpunk 2077 are not MMORPG's.

Regardless, I don't see how playing WoW on a TV or monitor without a computer involved would ever be a pleasant experience. As I said before, there's a LOT more going on locally than you seem to think.

You're the one that brought up size, I merely gave comparisons. I also outlined multiple users connected at a single time as one of the cons.

How would you find it impactful to your gaming experience? Especially if they somehow found a way to make addons work?

Like I can think of quite a few nights where I'd much prefer to be playing on my couch rather than sitting at my computer. I can also say that there's a lot more people like me to which a computer or gaming console is a significant and sometimes multi-year investment that requires specific budgeting and saving for than those able to just drop a dime on a game ready PC or console. Meanwhile something like a chromecast ultra or equivalent isn't too hard to budget out over a month or even as an impulse purchase.

[Alvito]

Unless something has changed Blizzard doesn't allow cloud based gaming services, unless they change their mind on that Stadia is doa with Blizzard. Stadua on the other hand has plenty of it's own hurdles. The lack of unique games and low player bases for games it does support. As things stand now Stadia doesn't offer much in the way of a hook to get people to use it.

[clevin]

Like I can think of quite a few nights where I'd much prefer to be playing on my couch rather than sitting at my computer.

Laptops. That's how I game.

AS for the rest, there's no incentive for Blizzard to do this. Everyone who cares to has or can buy a modest PC that will run WoW. It's just not a consideration because if someone can't afford to spring for a $500 Dell from Best Buy or the local equivalent they're probably not in a place where spending $15/month is easy either. More bluntly, it's not going to gain them customers, so why bother?

[munkeyinorbit]

the faster stadia dies. The better for gamers

When have game publishers done anything for gamers? Services like stadia are coming and there's nothing you can do about it.

I predict that the next generation of consoles may be the last as it is very expensive to sell consoles and infrastructure is improving all the time. In my country most people have gone from 8 Mbit connections to upto Gbit connections in 5 years.