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  1. #161
    I am Murloc! Thwart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    The bigger picture is if the police could have avoided innocents being killed. If the robbers opened fire first in that traffic jam, then sure the police had to follow suit and put them down asap to minimize civilian casualties. If the police opened fire as soon as they were able, I'd say they hold some responsibility for the civilian casualties.
    The first rule of firearm use in a real life situation is the determine if it is safe for others behind and around your target. Consider it in the sense of what if an armed civilian was firing to stop this bad guy and accidentally shot bystanders. What do you think would happen in this situation? Police are just as responsible for every shot they take as a civilians. Watching the video, I saw the side of the UPS truck covered in bullet holes. Obviously a lot of police officers there need a LOT more range time. That spread would be measured in feet if not yards. It's amazing not more were injured with the kind of uncontrolled shooting.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Yeah sure. It's much better to have it be determined by some guy on the internet.
    Interesting that you’re so eager to believe the police, who have lied before. I remember the Laquan McDonald case. They lied, and these police officers will probably lie too.
    change can't wait.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    The issue as I saw it was the police approaching them in heavy traffic prompting them to start shooting.
    Sure, I could see that. Hostage situations have few right answers but many wrong ones.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Interesting that you’re so eager to believe the police, who have lied before. I remember the Laquan McDonald case. They lied, and these police officers will probably lie too.
    I'm not eager to believe anyone. I'm just not in a hurry to jump to conclusions.

    And "the police" are not a hive mind. There are good cops and there a bad cops. Assuming every cop is bad is just as foolish as assuming every cop is good.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    That's yet to be determined. We don't know who shot the driver or the bystander.
    It's safe to say the police killed the hostage. You can see in the video I linked earlier to you that the hostage and robber slumped out of the truck next to each other dead. Given how wildly the bullets from the police were flying it'd be impossible to believe that none of their bullet hit the hostage as they were also slamming into the robber.

    They filled that truck with bullet holes. There's no chance they didn't hit the hostage that was right next to the robber.

    As for the bystander it's far more likely that the police were the ones that shot them than the robbers. You have 2 robbers shooting at the police versus over a dozen police spraying the truck with bullets. The numbers makes it more likely that it was the police than the robbers. At least that one doesn't have 100% odds of police killing them I suppose.
    Im going to get very unpleasant depending on how motivated your stupidity ends up getting me, so... don't?
    SoundOfGuns trying to look intimidating.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I don't see anything in the story that suggests that LEO's were using innocent bystanders as cover.

    As for the rest of it...it's always tricky when there are hostages involved. You engage with the suspects and there's a good chance the hostage will be killed....but if you let them get away with the hostage and it's almost certain that he will be killed. And as soon as the suspects start opening fire... there's no more time for weighing all the options.
    You can see it in the video. Cops hiding behind people in their cars.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Thwart View Post
    The first rule of firearm use in a real life situation is the determine if it is safe for others behind and around your target. Consider it in the sense of what if an armed civilian was firing to stop this bad guy and accidentally shot bystanders. What do you think would happen in this situation? Police are just as responsible for every shot they take as a civilians. Watching the video, I saw the side of the UPS truck covered in bullet holes. Obviously a lot of police officers there need a LOT more range time. That spread would be measured in feet if not yards. It's amazing not more were injured with the kind of uncontrolled shooting.
    The shift to police using AR15's is one I don't really oppose in and of itself, but frankly there's a lot more situations where a cop needs a bolt action 308 from 100yds, not rushing a paper thin UPS truck and spraying rounds at it. Though really, a nice AR10 also could fill both roles. I'm not saying they had a lot of options, but just... ugh.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  8. #168
    Very informative blog! I find out much good info.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-c...eaths-n1096871

    Story: Two suspects rob a jewelry store, alarms are triggered and police pursue as they should. The suspects hijack a UPS truck with the driver inside, leading on a 20-mile chase. The chase stops when the suspects get stuck in traffic. Theres innocent bystanders everywhere and one hostage in the truck. Almost 100 cars are on call, they have the truck surrounded, literally.

    Suddenly shots ring out. from all over. LEOs are using bystanders for cover, bystanders are trying to get out crossfire, some officers are standing in the crossfire. LEOs shooting from one side are shooting straight through the other. Its chaos. The chaos stops. Suspects are killed, UPS is killed, so is a bystander in a separate car. There are multiple videos of featuring angles on the internet, none of them look good.

    How do you think law enforcement should handle situations when there are multiple innocent bystanders involved?
    The police should have just let them fire randomly into the crowed allowing them to kill innocent people and do nothing, so instead of getting criticized for stopping them they could have been criticized of doing nothing.

  10. #170
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    The police should have just let them fire randomly into the crowed allowing them to kill innocent people and do nothing, so instead of getting criticized for stopping them they could have been criticized of doing nothing.
    They only open fired cause they were backed into a corner. They could have easily followed at a distance and tried in a less populated area....


    but that would require thinking.....
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.

  11. #171
    I think the real issue is that officers actually put bystanders in the path of fire. It wasn't just a matter of them being fired upon in a crowd, but actually getting the crown involved.

    These videos will surely be played in departments for years to come, and they will have a great many "lessons learned."
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

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