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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    not with this engine it cant
    it can and it was.. back in wrath

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    According to arenamate.net there are less than 2000 people above 1.8k rating in the EU. And many hardcore PvPers have several alts they play. At this point arena is just a ye old boys' club and there's absolutely no fun to be had in it for new players. Actually I doubt new players even entertain the thought of doing arena, not after sitting in LFG for hours just to get 1 or 2 games that end in raging after a single loss.
    well thats because pvp is in the worst state its ever been.. by a lot

    just like the whole game tbh, but especially pvp

    they need to stop removing and abandoning things that they ruined themselves and instead fix them..
    Last edited by Craaazyyy; 2019-12-07 at 08:32 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    well thats because pvp is in the worst state its ever been.. by a lot

    just like the whole game tbh, but especially pvp

    they need to stop removing and abandoning things that they ruined themselves and instead fix them..
    Honestly I can't even begin to imagine the crazy extensive kind of tuning and fixes they would have to apply to arena to reinvigorate participation. They'd have to completely rebrand it and remarket it as a feature. Funnily enough iirc they wanted to do that during WoD alpha with "gladiator trials" (am I remembering it correctly?) but they abandoned development, just like with other WoD features.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Honestly I can't even begin to imagine the crazy extensive kind of tuning and fixes they would have to apply to arena to reinvigorate participation. They'd have to completely rebrand it and remarket it as a feature. Funnily enough iirc they wanted to do that during WoD alpha with "gladiator trials" (am I remembering it correctly?) but they abandoned development, just like with other WoD features.
    well yeah at this point its pretty much gone at least on retail, simply because many players just wont believe that the changes they've made are actually good in reality

    what can save pvp participation is tbc/wrath servers, but that would have nothing to do with retail

  4. #44
    Lol i dunno why y'all acting like it's some sort of mystery.
    Prior to legion, you either raided or pvped for gear. Now you don't have to do either. PvP was always very niche

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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    Which is a perfectly fine thing to have in the game.
    strongly disagree. get good to get gear

  5. #45
    How to fix PvP in two easy steps:

    1. Add PvP vendors back, let us chose the items we want to buy first instead of this RNG hell. By all means lock items behind rating brackets if that makes it "feel more special".

    2. Add soloQ, both for Arena and RBGs. Have them on different ladders than full premades and PvP would thrive.

    These two simple changes would get me back in a heartbeat, and so would most of my friends who have also quit.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Games should be designed with gamers in mind, not primadonna streamers and e-sports announcers.
    Yes, you know this, and I know this... but you have to remember Acti-blizz is a business, and if it doesn't generate a lot of profit, it tends to get backburnered, or completely forgotten.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    strongly disagree. get good to get gear
    Yeah. People with higher ratings should get vendors with better gear. Simple.

  8. #48
    Stood in the Fire pinelakias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    "I want a gear vendor to reward me for losing 10 games every week, please"
    Always better than being rewarded something completely idiotic and useless for winning 10 games every week. The one rewards both sides of players for actually playing the game, the other rewards none of the players for... well, playing the game is kind of exagggerating nowadays :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Yes, you know this, and I know this... but you have to remember Acti-blizz is a business, and if it doesn't generate a lot of profit, it tends to get backburnered, or completely forgotten.
    Then they should expect that more and more players will leave the game. Retail has already lost hundreds of thousands of players to vanilla, a 14-year old game which we already played, even though most of us agree that TBC was a better game overall than vanilla and we would drop it in a heartbeat if blizz announced the TBC server. If they wanna keep this up, then they should also accept that, in the end, the only ones playing retail wow are going to be the streamers and the ones who will accept any kind of sh!t :P
    The man in the mirror is watching. Study hard and work harder! Always be civil and care about others!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Yeah. People with higher ratings should get vendors with better gear. Simple.
    Players with high ratings aren't on the forums complaining about gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinelakias View Post
    Always better than being rewarded something completely idiotic and useless for winning 10 games every week. The one rewards both sides of players for actually playing the game, the other rewards none of the players for... well, playing the game is kind of exagggerating nowadays :P

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    Then they should expect that more and more players will leave the game. Retail has already lost hundreds of thousands of players to vanilla, a 14-year old game which we already played, even though most of us agree that TBC was a better game overall than vanilla and we would drop it in a heartbeat if blizz announced the TBC server. If they wanna keep this up, then they should also accept that, in the end, the only ones playing retail wow are going to be the streamers and the ones who will accept any kind of sh!t :P
    there's literally an order in which you get stuff via the caps.
    But i mean of course you don't know what you're talking about.

  10. #50
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    what's the smallest BG, 10v10? how would Announcers pay attention to all of that, let alone make calls on it? I mean, look at their latest "Esport" Overwatch, 6v6 seems like the largest anyone 1 or 2 people can call play by play on.
    Lol Announcers, when i watched streams of wc3 ladder brackets back in the day, no one needed announcers, it was fun to read the chats between players, how they talked to each other, sometimes not very friendly at all. All the fake professionalism needs to go, its a game for gods sake.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    how about no lol. I don't want to farm 2 entire sets of gear just to do M+ and play some random BGs every now and then. a vendor similar to the azerite vendor would be perfectly fine we don't need separate gear for PvE and PvP again that shit fucking sucked
    How about yes. I don't want to do Mythic+ or raids and have people have an advantage over me because they do those two aspects of the game that does not appeal to me. You can do your "random BGs now and again" and get the PvP set. It would only require you to do some form of PvP. If you don't want to PvP, you don't need a PvP set.

  12. #52
    They really do need a solo queue system for RBG. I never bothered with RBg because it was either "link 2400 achieve" or "YOLO" runs with a bunch of carries the raid leader brought in. Or it takes an hour to set it up with people leaving while setting up the group. It was never worth the hassle. I guess the problem is how they set up the comps. Do they require 1 tank and 3 healers? Or no tank? Have a role requirement at all? Etc. If you already have 1 holy paladin will the system not give you a second one since you only really need 1?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Lol Announcers, when i watched streams of wc3 ladder brackets back in the day, no one needed announcers, it was fun to read the chats between players, how they talked to each other, sometimes not very friendly at all. All the fake professionalism needs to go, its a game for gods sake.
    This. These kids wearing suits while watching a video game just feels so fake. Let the casters wear some cool t-shirt that shows off the video game or something.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2019-12-09 at 06:44 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    How about yes. I don't want to do Mythic+ or raids and have people have an advantage over me because they do those two aspects of the game that does not appeal to me. You can do your "random BGs now and again" and get the PvP set. It would only require you to do some form of PvP. If you don't want to PvP, you don't need a PvP set.
    or we can just have gear that works in both PvE and PvP? like we already do right now??????

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    or we can just have gear that works in both PvE and PvP? like we already do right now??????
    Sure. Let's have Mythic raid quality gear drop in PvP and I'm all for that. Then you will hear the PvE people cry about it. Taking stats from the DPS stats and putting it into a PvP only stat was the way Blizzard did it without devaluing PvE gear.

    The problem right now is that the top end gear is A) Obtainable from PvE exclusively and B) the top end PvP gear is exclusive to those who are highly rated. PvP gear should be widely accessible so everyone who spends time doing PvP are on equal footing. Rewards for high rating should be cosmetic (transmog, mounts.) If they accomplished this without a PvP dedicated stat then I am fine with that.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    the top end PvP gear is exclusive to those who are highly rated. PvP gear should be widely accessible so everyone who spends time doing PvP are on equal footing. Rewards for high rating should be cosmetic (transmog, mounts.)
    top end PvE gear/transmog is also only obtainable to people who are top level PvEers (mythic raiders)? don't understand what you're getting at sounds like you suck at pvp.

    if you want people in pvp to be on equal footing then we should bring back templates

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    top end PvE gear/transmog is also only obtainable to people who are top level PvEers (mythic raiders)? don't understand what you're getting at sounds like you suck at pvp.

    if you want people in pvp to be on equal footing then we should bring back templates
    2700 in arenas and 3100 in RBGs when I last played PvP. Granted, I have not PvP'd this expac. Maybe I am misinformed on the current reward structure. Last I played there was a rating requirement 2100, 2200 on certain gear pieces that was a barrier to lower rated players. I always thought that was unfair to someone who was 1900, 2k that would be matched against 2100 teams.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    2700 in arenas and 3100 in RBGs when I last played PvP. Granted, I have not PvP'd this expac. Maybe I am misinformed on the current reward structure. Last I played there was a rating requirement 2100, 2200 on certain gear pieces that was a barrier to lower rated players. I always thought that was unfair to someone who was 1900, 2k that would be matched against 2100 teams.
    if you ask me I don't think gear should be a factor in pvp at all for that same reason, it should be about skill and nothing else with rewards entirely cosmetic (at the very least for arena). I think we should go back to legion's templates and maybe try to improve them a bit. I don't think pvp stats are necessary for this because they're a barrier and keep people out of casual pvp

  18. #58
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    top end PvE gear/transmog is also only obtainable to people who are top level PvEers (mythic raiders)? don't understand what you're getting at sounds like you suck at pvp.

    if you want people in pvp to be on equal footing then we should bring back templates
    The ability and gear template is still active, just the stat template was removed.

    Stat templates were very frustrating back in legion. You got extremely nerfed by playing a rogue in pvp. Your sucky stat got increased and your best stat lowered, and all your abilities did considerably less dmg, while a frost dk was so bad on its own in pvp, that he got almost unnerfed and even a hp increase by said template.

    So instead of gear and ilvl the template dicated whats best in pvp and who got the unlucky straw, thats hardly a better design?

    in addition, you could run around naked in pvp instances and get away with it....very immersive for a rpg, that used to focus on gear.

    Also imagine the rpg aspect of changeing gear sets, trinkets and so on, but having no effect at all due to a brainless template, made by a person who thinks whats best in pvp that probably hardly plays the game at all.

    If done by professional pvp players, this might work in a competetive strategy game in a tourney mode, but not in the general pvp day to day use of a mmorpg.

    I am sure, a design around pvp stats was the better deal and i am sure different class sets for pve and pvp made the game more enjoyable and diverse, too?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    The ability and gear template is still active, just the stat template was removed.

    Stat templates were very frustrating back in legion. You got extremely nerfed by playing a rogue in pvp. Your sucky stat got increased and your best stat lowered, and all your abilities did considerably less dmg, while a frost dk was so bad on its own in pvp, that he got almost unnerfed and even a hp increase by said template.

    So instead of gear and ilvl the template dicated whats best in pvp and who got the unlucky straw, thats hardly a better design?

    in addition, you could run around naked in pvp instances and get away with it....very immersive for a rpg, that used to focus on gear.

    Also imagine the rpg aspect of changeing gear sets, trinkets and so on, but having no effect at all due to a brainless template, made by a person who thinks whats best in pvp that probably hardly plays the game at all.

    If done by professional pvp players, this might work in a competetive strategy game in a tourney mode, but not in the general pvp day to day use of a mmorpg.

    I am sure, a design around pvp stats was the better deal and i am sure different class sets for pve and pvp made the game more enjoyable and diverse, too?
    I like PvE trinkets being a thing in PvP honestly. I know a lot of people did not, but I thought it was always flavorful and added some variety / spice. I don't think PvE sets and set bonuses should be impacting PvP, at least not rated. I can see the flaw with stat templates. I think gear should matter to a degree. What I am arguing is that the accessibility of the gear should be where its accessible to anyone who wants to do rated pvp so that you don't have people with 30 ilvl differences fighting each other because there is rating requirements preventing them from getting on 'even grounds.'

    I honestly haven't pvp'd since I think MoP and have not done it hardcore since Cataclysm. My knowledge of the systems is dated. However, I found the system they had for the first couple seasons of BC was the best for PvP, and many of my friends I did PvP with as a PvP centric player for multiple expansions tended to have similar opinions. I have tried to get these guys back into the game so I can PvP with them again but they don't want to run on the gear treadmill to be competitive. Most of them don't like PvE either. The PvP design decisions drove off a lot of players, and honestly they're a very small minority now I think.

  20. #60
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    I like PvE trinkets being a thing in PvP honestly. I know a lot of people did not, but I thought it was always flavorful and added some variety / spice. I don't think PvE sets and set bonuses should be impacting PvP, at least not rated. I can see the flaw with stat templates. I think gear should matter to a degree. What I am arguing is that the accessibility of the gear should be where its accessible to anyone who wants to do rated pvp so that you don't have people with 30 ilvl differences fighting each other because there is rating requirements preventing them from getting on 'even grounds.'

    I honestly haven't pvp'd since I think MoP and have not done it hardcore since Cataclysm. My knowledge of the systems is dated. However, I found the system they had for the first couple seasons of BC was the best for PvP, and many of my friends I did PvP with as a PvP centric player for multiple expansions tended to have similar opinions. I have tried to get these guys back into the game so I can PvP with them again but they don't want to run on the gear treadmill to be competitive. Most of them don't like PvE either. The PvP design decisions drove off a lot of players, and honestly they're a very small minority now I think.
    Yeah, TBC was the best in terms of PvP, but then again, i just started with wow in the middle of s2 and i happen to be a warlock, too.

    created later a rogue and mage and what can definatley be said, is, that TBC was the best pvp addon for pure DD classes, they did the most dmg and burst and the cc was more of a big deal, too.

    Could also say MoP and WoD were good PvP expansions, but in MoP, while a fresh class design that actually worked(unlike legion) people stopped to die, but then again i played a Hdruid which were ridiculous with symbosis, kinda adding another def cd like pala bubble or mage iceblock to my my own arsenal of immortality.

    And in WoD stuff died quickly again, but there was that nasty pruning.

    TBC got it right, arena felt fresh and new, too, no balance around healers or 3vs3. And most importantly random bgs did reward you with actually good gear for your effort and time and it lacked disgusting bg design, isles with machines and other distracting nonsense. ;>

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