Thread: PVP ruined PVE

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    If you have played then you surely remember that the first 2 seasons were SHIT GEAR that couldnt even get you invited in an HC dungeon.
    Again, spec reliant, but this is false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Weird take but I kinda miss the days when PvP gear was useful in PvE. BiS it should not be but it gave more options for farming gear.
    Sure, multiple gearing routes is always good if it's balanced moderately well - it was my counter argument to whiney guildies at the start of MoP complaining that they *had* to do dailies *every day* or they were failing to play WoW properly; I'd just point out that some of my BiS items were gated behind weeks of Arena so they could shut the fuck up and not do the dailies if it was just too stressful, the raid loot which was better would drop within a few weeks anyway :P
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  2. #42
    It is an empirical fact that it ruined PvE in a lot of ways, this is why they should have separated the two game modes expansions ago creating unique versions of each class for PvE and PvP respectively.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    It is an empirical fact that it ruined PvE in a lot of ways, this is why they should have separated the two game modes expansions ago creating unique versions of each class for PvE and PvP respectively.
    LMAO, I love forums. "It is an empirical fact" = "This is totally just my opinion but it's really really important that you agree with me".

    My "empirical fact" is that the game is better when you have to make choices involving tradeoffs and you can't be optimized for every single kind of content you want to do.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    Elitists ruined the game, top elitist now game-director. 1+1=2

    /thread
    Yeah but Ion was an elitist raider, shouldn't he have been pushing fornPvE changes that ruin PvP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    The pvp ranks you describe always belonged to players who never interacted with pve so your argument is completely redundant. No "free epics" were ever given its a known fact that pve gear was always better for both scenarios and was only surpassed in pvp by items with resilience which was useless for pve.

    The only thing one can "accuse" pvp of is the changes in skills to prevent one shots but even that was never an issue for pve players.
    Arena epics won out because they were so easy to get with no RNG issue, especially for more casual guilds who could get S2/3 gear while they were still in T4/5 content. The season 2 staff with all its crit and hit was an awesome item for destroyed 'locks.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by dontruinwow View Post
    Don't know if others share the same opinion, but I think the GCD change is game breaking for PVE. I understand if they only applied it to PVP, but to me, the overall effect it's been having on the game is too big to simply accept as a "balancing act". The gameplay itself feels broken. Why not just apply it to PVP only? Win win.
    It was done more for PVE I think. I also hate it, but it has basically nothing to do with PVP.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    LMAO, I love forums. "It is an empirical fact" = "This is totally just my opinion but it's really really important that you agree with me".

    My "empirical fact" is that the game is better when you have to make choices involving tradeoffs and you can't be optimized for every single kind of content you want to do.
    Except many developers have already conceded to it being a major downfall including ones that worked on WoW for years, it is a fact.

    Most people can learn multiple versions of the same class, you are not giving people enough credit if that is where the issue lies, and forcing someone to play a way that was an afterthought in the first place of a minority of the user base is a poor idea. PvP was popular in small bursts throughout WoW's history but was never what the majority of people who play the game do.

    I do like PvP but like in Guild Wars it should be separate from the main game progression both ability and talent wise and they should be balanced separately.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    it was the other way around 99% of the time
    Depends how you see it I guess. Not saying I don't hear what you are saying.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Wrath of The Bolvar too big for this forum. 10.0 confirmed?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    GCD change was to slow the game down a bit and stop people from relentlessly stabbing at keys. I don't know how much it affected the latter but the change itself didn't have anything to do specifically with PVP.

    The fact is that most of the player population for WoW isn't interested in doing mythic raiding or high-level mythic+ where a quicker GCD matters a lot more.

    There's a lot of ways that adjusting abilities for PVP has impacted PVE abilities badly but this isn't one of them.
    So why break the game’s most important part when they could have simply just removed macroing or nerfed it instead?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Except many developers have already conceded to it being a major downfall including ones that worked on WoW for years, it is a fact.
    LMAO. Ok buddy. So your logic is that if someone at Blizzard has the same opinion as you regarding a subjective premise, now it's a fact? Are they somehow gods of infallible game design? How about when two people at Blizzard have different opinions? Does reality just come crashing down around us since mutually exclusive facts are an impossibility?

    It is not a hard concept to differentiate facts from opinions. I suppose that in your mind, doing so makes your internet arguments seem less weighty. The irony is that not understanding the difference actually just makes you sound like a dumbass and you are not going to convince anyone who doesn't already hold your same position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dontruinwow View Post
    So why break the game’s most important part when they could have simply just removed macroing or nerfed it instead?
    What do you mean? What is the game's most important part?

    The thing I don't think you're understanding is that the change wasn't for PvE or PvP as opposed to the other, it was to fix (as they saw it) the pacing of the game across all play.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    What's cancer is blizzard trying to balance the 2.
    This is true, if Blizz had just balanced them separately FROM THE START, I probably wouldn't hold such disdain for PvP.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    LMAO. Ok buddy. So your logic is that if someone at Blizzard has the same opinion as you regarding a subjective premise, now it's a fact? Are they somehow gods of infallible game design? How about when two people at Blizzard have different opinions? Does reality just come crashing down around us since mutually exclusive facts are an impossibility?

    It is not a hard concept to differentiate facts from opinions. I suppose that in your mind, doing so makes your internet arguments seem less weighty. The irony is that not understanding the difference actually just makes you sound like a dumbass and you are not going to convince anyone who doesn't already hold your same position.

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    What do you mean? What is the game's most important part?

    The thing I don't think you're understanding is that the change wasn't for PvE or PvP as opposed to the other, it was to fix (as they saw it) the pacing of the game across all play.
    Do you have references? Ion himself said it was about macros. If it was truly about the pacing, at least either put less abilities on the GCD or make it shorter. As it is gameplay is not fun as it used to be. I mean taking away fun from the game is basically breaking it. Why do people play anyway? To have fun or to be slowed down while having fun? Makes no sense to me.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by dontruinwow View Post
    Do you have references? Ion himself said it was about macros. If it was truly about the pacing, at least either put less abilities on the GCD or make it shorter. As it is gameplay is not fun as it used to be. I mean taking away fun from the game is basically breaking it. Why do people play anyway? To have fun or to be slowed down while having fun? Makes no sense to me.
    You are the one claiming that the change was made for PvP .... seems like you should be providing references. I remember what Ion said and it is not what you are claiming. He did not say it was about PvP or macros. He gave an example of a warrior using a macro to fire off a bunch of non-GCD abilities and how that highlighted a problem with how that highlighted something they didn't like. They wanted abilities to be good enough to use independent of a macro bundle. He also said they were working through the problem of it not feeling good to activate something and then wait to do attacks. I don't think this has really ever been resolved and I personally think they put too many things on GCD, as do a lot of other people.

    According to what you're saying, the faster they make it the better. So why is there any GCD? Why aren't we all mashing our keyboards as fast as we can? Why would you want to be slowed down by having any ability on a GCD, or at least one as long as it is? I'm not actually asking questions, I'm being rhetorical. You are stating an opinion as fact and I don't think you understand game design. An MMO is going to be designed with different considerations than a FPS. Not everyone thinks it is fun to play a game that is defined by your twitch reflexes and latency, nor is every game's architecture or long term interest best served by that paradigm.

    In summary, you make two claims that I completely disagree with:
    #1. The GCD changes were made because of PvP.
    #2. In the MMO WoW, faster would always be better.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Depends how you see it I guess. Not saying I don't hear what you are saying.
    well it doesn't depend on anything, it's just a fact.. 99% of changes that have been made to the game were made because of PvE

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    I don't think this has really ever been resolved and I personally think they put too many things on GCD, as do a lot of other people.

    In summary, you make two claims that I completely disagree with:
    #1. The GCD changes were made because of PvP.
    #2. In the MMO WoW, faster would always be better.
    It looks like we do agree on something after all.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    I don't think this has really ever been resolved and I personally think they put too many things on GCD, as do a lot of other people.

    In summary, you make two claims that I completely disagree with:
    #1. The GCD changes were made because of PvP.
    #2. In the MMO WoW, faster would always be better.
    It looks like we do agree on something after all.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    The game was/is largely funded by casuals though. Guess who wins in corporate terms.
    Funny because WOW starts to lose subs when they tune the game for grandmas. Guess Ghostcrawler was right all along.

  17. #57
    the GCD change is the single worst thing that has been implemented into the game, even worse than LFR (but not by much, that game mode is just cancer)

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    I don't think this has really ever been resolved and I personally think they put too many things on GCD, as do a lot of other people.

    In summary, you make two claims that I completely disagree with:
    #1. The GCD changes were made because of PvP.
    #2. In the MMO WoW, faster would always be better.
    It looks like we do agree on something after all.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    well it doesn't depend on anything, it's just a fact.. 99% of changes that have been made to the game were made because of PvE
    False. Its a fact that changes to PvE was made because they had to fix something for PvP. Big difference. Now with the fixes for how powerful abilities are, how much main stats etc can be reduced for PvP this became better when they started it in Legion. Now they don't have to fix stuff for PvE as much because stuff is too powerful or too weak in PvP. Before they always had to do that.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Wrath of The Bolvar too big for this forum. 10.0 confirmed?

  20. #60
    A slower paced game will always be easier to balance.

    That said, a talented dev team can make balance work with faster gameplay.

    Wow feels slower than it ever has before in retail and it’s pathetic and bad dev work

    Why they won’t revert the gcd, which id wager over 90% of wow fans hate, is beyond me

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