View Poll Results: Voters Right Act - Should Felons be allowed to vote?

Voters
90. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    54 60.00%
  • No.

    12 13.33%
  • Depends on the circumstances, but mostly, Yes!

    15 16.67%
  • Depends on the circumstances, but mostly, No!

    9 10.00%
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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I never understood the positive side of not allowing citizens to vote, felons or not.

    What is the gains here?
    Earlier in the thread, I wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    As with any question about who should vote, I think we first need to establish what exactly the goal is of enfranchisement. Are we trying to choose the "best" candidates for positions? Is it that maximal civic engagement leads to a better, more stable society even if the actual candidates chosen aren't optimal? Or is it simply that maximizing the number of people voting is a terminal good?

    Most of these conversations seem to assume that we're all basically on the same page with what the goal is, but I don't think that's the case at all.

    Personally, I have no desire to see felons voting. I'm inclined towards some combination of thinking we're trying to choose the best candidates via process and that people have some sort of core right of self determination. I doubt that including the felon vote will improve the quality of candidates and think felonies permanently costing someone part of their self determination is an acceptable form of punishment. I don't feel particularly strongly about that for people who are released and reintegrated into society though - I'd be fine with people who have reestablished themselves as worthwhile human beings getting their full franchise back.
    So I'd ask the same inverted - shat do you see as the upside of having felons vote? Does it improve the quality of the electorate, of the candidates, of the ruling class? Is maximizing the number of people voting, regardless of their cognitive or ethical abilities, just a terminal value for you?

    I suspect most people, including me, just have some sort of instinct on the matter. Those that are in favor have an inclination towards what's most fair to everyone, those against have an inclination to say that some people have no legitimate stake in the society and don't deserve input.

  2. #102
    Herald of the Titans Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I never understood the positive side of not allowing citizens to vote, felons or not.

    What is the gains here?
    As I see it, democracy is short-sighted, the politicians do what they can to stay in power and that means short-sighted goals to satisfy people so they get re-elected next election. It's almost impossible to have any long-term project spanning decades in a democracy because people will grow impatient and vote someone that would destroy it.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Earlier in the thread, I wrote:

    So I'd ask the same inverted - shat do you see as the upside of having felons vote? Does it improve the quality of the electorate, of the candidates, of the ruling class? Is maximizing the number of people voting, regardless of their cognitive or ethical abilities, just a terminal value for you?

    I suspect most people, including me, just have some sort of instinct on the matter. Those that are in favor have an inclination towards what's most fair to everyone, those against have an inclination to say that some people have no legitimate stake in the society and don't deserve input.
    The upside would be not to infringe on one of our most basic rights as Americans to vote unless specifically dictated during sentencing of the felon, not just as a blanket tactic to lower voter participation (which is already stupidly low to begin with)

    And if you want to go that route, minorities make up a LARGE portion of prison populations, and we've already seen many tactics in the past couple years alone of attempts to stifle voter participation by minorities in several states.

    Coincidence?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    See, this is how wars start. You are seeing things from just one side. Look at both sides. Both sides, the democrats and republicans, are looking at the other side as racists and as outright EVIL. This isn't storytime. There aren't mustache-twirling villains. In the real world, both sides dig in to incompatible positions they are willing to fight and die for. You can sit there and say "the right wing feelings arent valid therefore war will not occur" but that's nonsense.
    You still didn't answer my very clear question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    As I see it, democracy is short-sighted, the politicians do what they can to stay in power and that means short-sighted goals to satisfy people so they get re-elected next election. It's almost impossible to have any long-term project spanning decades in a democracy because people will grow impatient and vote someone that would destroy it.
    This is the problem with politicians on a fundamental level imho, oh so often a politicians time in office is more dedicated to getting reelected than they are actually using the powers of their office as they were originally intended, to serve the public that elected it

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Earlier in the thread, I wrote:

    So I'd ask the same inverted - shat do you see as the upside of having felons vote? Does it improve the quality of the electorate, of the candidates, of the ruling class? Is maximizing the number of people voting, regardless of their cognitive or ethical abilities, just a terminal value for you?

    I suspect most people, including me, just have some sort of instinct on the matter. Those that are in favor have an inclination towards what's most fair to everyone, those against have an inclination to say that some people have no legitimate stake in the society and don't deserve input.
    The answer is simple... freedom and equality.

    How is that any different than when people questioned whether minorities or women should be allowed to vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  7. #107
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    I thought voting was a right, enshrined in the US constitution? And yet you take away that right when they're locked up? Seems kinda ass-backwards to me, but okay.

    But seriously, they absolutely should be allowed to vote. Even while in prison. The only reason you have to remove someone's right to vote is if they're incapable of making a rational decision due to not being able to properly process the information, like if they're children or mentally handicapped.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The answer is simple... freedom and equality.

    How is that any different than when people questioned whether minorities or women should be allowed to vote.
    Ding ding ding. Spectral is doing what conservatives have done in this country for centuries, repackage the same shit under the veil of some sort of law and order or "right" in society.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  9. #109
    There's lots of problems with voting in the US - this is pretty low on my wish list. No, they shouldn't get to vote, but I'm not campaigning or constantly debating this topic. Corporations also shouldn't get to vote (even though they are people).

  10. #110
    I am Murloc! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    If people were as concerned about disenfranchising right wingers as much as they are about disenfranchising felons in this thread, we wouldn't be seeing effectively 0% of republicans trusting the system today. Its quite interesting how people CAN learn the lesson but refuse to apply it where it is desperately needed.
    When right wingers show the have been rehabilitated they can be treated the same as well.
    Last edited by unfilteredJW; 2019-12-08 at 06:29 PM.
    Wall of LOLs
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Yeah I know. It'll take another 2 years + to knock Rozz and Flarelane down to size as Endus eventually was. Not worth the effort. My lack of posting here recently has been sort of 2-fold. One is because it's extremely boring watching the crazies come to the inevitable conclusion that they've failed. TDS seems to be an awfully persistent disease. Two is because I'm saving my infraction points to unleash unholy Hell when Trump wins re-election.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    The only reason you have to remove someone's right to vote is if they're incapable of making a rational decision due to not being able to properly process the information, like if they're children or mentally handicapped.
    While a agree with this premise, you could extend it much further with people who are blatantly misinformed and vote against their own self interests, all while believing that they are helping themselves. Could one not argue that these people, while of sound mind, are incapable of making rational decisions due to not properly processing information?

    I know I'm jumping down a rabbit hole here, and to actually take away somebody's right to vote requires medical justification, but humor me.
    Last edited by matheney2k; 2019-12-08 at 06:37 PM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    While a agree with this premise, you could extend it much further with people who are blatantly misinformed and vote against their own self interests, all while believing that they are helping themselves. Could one not argue that these people, while of sound mind, are incapable of making rational decisions due to not properly processing information?

    I know I'm jumping down a rabbit hole here, and to actually take away somebody's right to vote requires medical justification, but humor me.
    I see where your head is at here...but there is a difference between making a decision because you don't have all the information and making a decision because your brain can't process the information you do have properly.

  13. #113
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    See, this is how wars start. You are seeing things from just one side. Look at both sides. Both sides, the democrats and republicans, are looking at the other side as racists and as outright EVIL. This isn't storytime. There aren't mustache-twirling villains. In the real world, both sides dig in to incompatible positions they are willing to fight and die for. You can sit there and say "the right wing feelings arent valid therefore war will not occur" but that's nonsense.
    There have already been studies proving illegals are not impacting elections, there are no two sides in stuff like this just fact and fantasy and some ones wild fantasy doesn’t matter in the face of fact.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I see where your head is at here...but there is a difference between making a decision because you don't have all the information and making a decision because your brain can't process the information you do have properly.
    Could refusing to acknowledge information and facts count as an inability to properly process?
    (I know I'm out on a long and skinny branch here lol)

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Could refusing to acknowledge information and facts count as an inability to properly process?
    (I know I'm out on a long and skinny branch here lol)
    Refusal to acknowledge information that challenges ones point of view and inability to process information are still separate. There's an active mind behind that refusal.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Refusal to acknowledge information that challenges ones point of view and inability to process information are still separate. There's an active mind behind that refusal.
    Ok ok I give up you're too strong with logic on your side

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Ok ok I give up you're too strong with logic on your side
    It's the thing that makes those types worse than crazy people. They have all the tools they need to make good decisions and simply refuse to do so.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    In the real world, both sides dig in to incompatible positions they are willing to fight and die for. You can sit there and say "the right wing feelings arent valid therefore war will not occur" but that's nonsense.
    In the real world, one side lies about illegal immigrants voting. The other side is frequently the target of actual disenfranchisement by voter registration manipulation and gerrymandering.

  19. #119
    I'm sure there are some serious bullshit felonies around things like drug possession which would make absolutely no sense to restrict voting on the back of.

    I can totally get it if you'd want to restrict the votes of murderers or rapists etc., I personally wouldn't feel particularly cut up if they couldn't vote. But it's kind of hard to tell whether someone should be able to decide who can and can't vote.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  20. #120
    Yes, of course. Are they suddenly not citizens any more? Do politics not matter when you're a convicted felon? Deciding which citizen can vote and who can't is a very dangerous slippery slope. Why stop at felons, right? Maybe not let people without an education vote, or people from a certain neighborhood, or color, or people who like Nickelback, or...

    What nonsense to bar anyone from voting.

    Luckily I live in a free, democratic country where you can vote from prison (unless they didn't put a polling station in your facility, then you give someone the right to vote for you, because it's kind of hard to go outside and vote ).

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