Voters Right Act - Should Felons be allowed to vote?

[Ooid]

Yes, after serving their sentence they should have the ability to vote returned to them. Otherwise it’s akin to punishing them for the rest of their lives.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Unconditionally, yes. This includes people who are currently incarcerated, in addition to those who have served their sentences.

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wait you cant vote in the usa if you are in the prison with felony?
Not only that but even not after the sentence is served?
holy fucking shit is this real? what kind of satire is this?

The institutional remnants of racism that we (as a nation) still refuse to fix. A fair amount of this shit comes from the Jim Crow laws.

[Themius]

What about rapist, should convicted rapist be allowed to vote especially for representatives that can vote on bills like say concerning informed consent?


What if nobody convicted was disfranchised we knew for certain they were guilty of a certain crime, is there no point where you feel a person should lose their input into laws that govern everybody else?

I don't, I don't think wolves should be allowed to vote on what sheep are going to be for dinner.

This seems like a non-issue concerning rapist as you would need a majority of people to feel the same way.

[Machismo]

If people were as concerned about disenfranchising right wingers as much as they are about disenfranchising felons in this thread, we wouldn't be seeing effectively 0% of republicans trusting the system today. Its quite interesting how people CAN learn the lesson but refuse to apply it where it is desperately needed.

How are right wingers being disenfranchised from voting?

Now, if you are referring to why we don't pander to racists... you are completely off topic, and you can take it to a different thread.

[XDurionX]

Nobody should ever lose his right to vote, under any circumstances.

[Kokolums]

How are right wingers being disenfranchised from voting?

Now, if you are referring to why we don't pander to racists... you are completely off topic, and you can take it to a different thread.

well actually right wingers have felt increasingly disenfranched from voting by all of the illegal immigrants coming in. thats actually one of if not the biggest reason trump is president right now. they feel democrats steal elections with impunity.

[Machismo]

well actually right wingers have felt increasingly disenfranched from voting by all of the illegal immigrants coming in. thats actually one of if not the biggest reason trump is president right now. they feel democrats steal elections with impunity.

How does that stop someone from voting? Nobody is trying to stop them from voting.

That's called xenophobia and racism, and blaming others for being xenophobic and racist is moronic.

They can feel whatever the fuck they want, but the facts don't align with their feelings. Nobody is disenfranchising them from voting, this is just another attempt to defend racists. And I already noted, you can take that to a different thread, because you are off topic.

[XangXu]

I bet a lot of people would be very surprised at how many convicted felons think Trump is an absolute horse shit human being.

And Republicans have always had a habit of finding excuses to cut voters out who might potentially vote against them. Like black people.

Hmmmm

[Deldavala]

In Norway you still retain your right to vote when you are in prison. We put up voting booths and such in prisons. I think the only way to lose your right to vote is treason.

[Katie N]

No, less people voting is good.

[Kokolums]

How does that stop someone from voting? Nobody is trying to stop them from voting.

That's called xenophobia and racism, and blaming others for being xenophobic and racist is moronic.

They can feel whatever the fuck they want, but the facts don't align with their feelings. Nobody is disenfranchising them from voting, this is just another attempt to defend racists. And I already noted, you can take that to a different thread, because you are off topic.

Republicans claim democrats are importing mass numbers of illegals to influence elections to disenfranchise republicans. In response, democrats say that belief is xenophobic and racist. That right there is going to cause civil war in this country. There is NO middle ground on that. The republicans are absolutely going to revolt in that arrangement. I think the only reason it hasn't happened yet is Trump won in 2016.

it just comes down to both sides view the other as racist. Its not going to work. This nation will tear itself apart.

[Machismo]

Republicans claim democrats are importing mass numbers of illegals to influence elections to disenfranchise republicans. In response, democrats say that belief is xenophobic and racist. That right there is going to cause civil war in this country. There is NO middle ground on that. The republicans are absolutely going to revolt in that arrangement. I think the only reason it hasn't happened yet is Trump won in 2016.

it just comes down to both sides view the other as racist. Its not going to work. This nation will tear itself apart.

One problem, they were proven to be objectively wrong. Therefore, there is no voter disenfranchizement of right wingers, it's utter bullshit. The facts don't give a shit about their feelings. You are trying to turn people into victims who are not victims. Not only that, you are trying to derail a thread for these racists and xenophobes.

There is no middle ground, you don't pander to racists. It's not that difficult of a concept. Those racists are still allowed to vote, nobody is denying them their right to vote.

Meanwhile, felons and former felons do not have that the freedom to vote. That means their rights are being denied. It's odd that you want to deflect from actual victims, to try and turn people who are completely unrelated, and objectively not victims... into victims.

So, why are you dso determined to make racists and xenophobes into victims in every unrelated thread?

[Kokolums]

One problem, they were proven to be objectively wrong. Therefore, there is no voter disenfranchizement of right wingers, it's utter bullshit. The facts don't give a shit about their feelings. You are trying to turn people into victims who are not victims. Not only that, you are trying to derail a thread for these racists and xenophobes.

There is no middle ground, you don't pander to racists. It's not that difficult of a concept. Those racists are still allowed to vote, nobody is denying them their right to vote.

Meanwhile, felons and former felons do not have that the freedom to vote. That means their rights are being denied. It's odd that you want to deflect from actual victims, to try and turn people who are completely unrelated, and objectively not victims... into victims.

So, why are you dso determined to make racists and xenophobes into victims in every unrelated thread?

There is total and complete disenfranchisement of right wingers in the US. Basically 0% of them currently trust the system. They now trust Trump, not the system. Impeaching Trump has a pretty high probability of setting off civil unrest, and I will guarantee it will push many right wingers to join militia groups in preparation of armed revolt against the elites.

[Machismo]

There is total and complete disenfranchisement of right wingers in the US. Basically 0% of them currently trust the system. They now trust Trump, not the system. Impeaching Trump has a pretty high probability of setting off civil unrest, and I will guarantee it will push many right wingers to join militia groups in preparation of armed revolt against the elites.

One problem, that lack of trust is nothing more than their own feelings, and is not based on actual evidence to justify it. It has nothing to do with voter disenfranchisement, which is what this thread is about. You are trying to derail a thread, in order to paint racists and xenophobes as victims.

The only question left, is why are you trying to derail a thread to paint them as victims?

So, back to the actual topic of the thread, felons should be allowed to vote, because that's what a free nation would do.

[Themius]

Either you believe in criminal reform and that after serving your punishment that you shouldn’t be punished in perpetuity. Or you don’t.

[Kokolums]

One problem, that lack of trust is nothing more than their own feelings, and is not based on actual evidence to justify it.

See, this is how wars start. You are seeing things from just one side. Look at both sides. Both sides, the democrats and republicans, are looking at the other side as racists and as outright EVIL. This isn't storytime. There aren't mustache-twirling villains. In the real world, both sides dig in to incompatible positions they are willing to fight and die for. You can sit there and say "the right wing feelings arent valid therefore war will not occur" but that's nonsense.

[Spectral]

I never understood the positive side of not allowing citizens to vote, felons or not.

What is the gains here?

Earlier in the thread, I wrote:

As with any question about who should vote, I think we first need to establish what exactly the goal is of enfranchisement. Are we trying to choose the "best" candidates for positions? Is it that maximal civic engagement leads to a better, more stable society even if the actual candidates chosen aren't optimal? Or is it simply that maximizing the number of people voting is a terminal good?

Most of these conversations seem to assume that we're all basically on the same page with what the goal is, but I don't think that's the case at all.

Personally, I have no desire to see felons voting. I'm inclined towards some combination of thinking we're trying to choose the best candidates via process and that people have some sort of core right of self determination. I doubt that including the felon vote will improve the quality of candidates and think felonies permanently costing someone part of their self determination is an acceptable form of punishment. I don't feel particularly strongly about that for people who are released and reintegrated into society though - I'd be fine with people who have reestablished themselves as worthwhile human beings getting their full franchise back.

So I'd ask the same inverted - shat do you see as the upside of having felons vote? Does it improve the quality of the electorate, of the candidates, of the ruling class? Is maximizing the number of people voting, regardless of their cognitive or ethical abilities, just a terminal value for you?

I suspect most people, including me, just have some sort of instinct on the matter. Those that are in favor have an inclination towards what's most fair to everyone, those against have an inclination to say that some people have no legitimate stake in the society and don't deserve input.

[Katie N]

I never understood the positive side of not allowing citizens to vote, felons or not.

What is the gains here?

As I see it, democracy is short-sighted, the politicians do what they can to stay in power and that means short-sighted goals to satisfy people so they get re-elected next election. It's almost impossible to have any long-term project spanning decades in a democracy because people will grow impatient and vote someone that would destroy it.

[Machismo]

See, this is how wars start. You are seeing things from just one side. Look at both sides. Both sides, the democrats and republicans, are looking at the other side as racists and as outright EVIL. This isn't storytime. There aren't mustache-twirling villains. In the real world, both sides dig in to incompatible positions they are willing to fight and die for. You can sit there and say "the right wing feelings arent valid therefore war will not occur" but that's nonsense.

You still didn't answer my very clear question.

[Machismo]

Earlier in the thread, I wrote:

So I'd ask the same inverted - shat do you see as the upside of having felons vote? Does it improve the quality of the electorate, of the candidates, of the ruling class? Is maximizing the number of people voting, regardless of their cognitive or ethical abilities, just a terminal value for you?

I suspect most people, including me, just have some sort of instinct on the matter. Those that are in favor have an inclination towards what's most fair to everyone, those against have an inclination to say that some people have no legitimate stake in the society and don't deserve input.

The answer is simple... freedom and equality.

How is that any different than when people questioned whether minorities or women should be allowed to vote.