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  1. #1
    The Patient Ruunicus's Avatar
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    Frost Death Knight - Concept








    "An icy harbinger of doom, channeling runic power and delivering vicious weapon strikes."

    I had fun with my Unholy Death Knight "Necromancer" concept so I wanted to try my hand at Frost Death Knights. I realize this won't be everyone's cup of tea as I decided to design up the Frost specialization specifically to my own likes and wants and hopes. I'm also open to ideas and criticisms

    The core concept of my Frost Death Knight concept is to utilize Frost Fever and Runic Power to further amplify our attack(s). All of our base attacks will receive bonus damage if the target is already afflicted with Frost Fever and Obliterate can actively benefit from Runic Power but it "consumes" Frost Fever so it would need to be reapplied. Annihilation adds a unique decision making dynamic and other changes push viable variations of play styles i.e. Frost Fever focus or Obliterate/Runes focus or Runic Power focus or a combination.







    • Frost Death Knights can use either a 2-Handed weapon or x2 1-Handed weapons. Blizzard has already normalized everything weapon related and, as far as I can tell, it's only Killing Machine that doesn't have a normalized PPM. I expect they may be able to switch it (modeling it like what they did for Runic Attenuation). Everything else being equal, the difference between a 2-Handed weapon with a 3.6% weapon speed and x2 1-Handed weapons with a 2.6% weapon speed is 27.8% in more auto-attack damage for the x2 1-Handed weapons over a 46.8 sec. period. This equates to 33.9% more damage every 60 sec. Thus reduce dual wield auto-attack damage by approx. 13% damage per swing (or auto-attack per weapon as it's the same thing) and now we have an equalized weapon speed between the weapon types. Runeforging can also be a non-issue... see below.







    Runeforging should definitely be expanded upon. I propose that the current runes become the base for all runeforging and then adding an interesting and different effect to it. In this way we could essentially have multiple options of Rune of the Fallen Crusader and Rune of Razorice, etc. Runeforging would be PPM and so only one Rune is allowed (no off-hand Rune as the Runeforge applies the Rune to both weapons but only Main Hand is active). I purposely left out each individual Rune's PPM because I didn't map out what I felt was fair due to the multiple effects.

    Here are some examples...


    Rune of the Fallen Crusader
    5 sec cast
    Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that has a chance to heal you for 6% and increase total Strength by 15% for 15 sec. Your attacks also have a chance to drain a Soul Fragment granting you 0.5% Strength. When you have acquired 10 Soul Fragments you will unleash Chaos Bane, dealing Shadow damage split between all enemies within 15 yards and granting you 10% Strength for 5 sec. Modifying your rune weapon requires a Runeforge in Ebon Hold.


    Rune of Cinderglacier
    5 sec cast
    Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that has a chance to heal you for 6% and increase total Strength by 15% for 15 sec. and increase the damage by 20% of your next 2 spells that deal Frost or Shadow damage. Modifying your rune weapon requires a Rune Forge in Ebon Hold.


    Rune of Razorice
    5 sec cast
    Affixes your weapon with a rune that causes (1% of Attack Power) extra weapon damage as Shadowfrost damage and increases enemies' vulnerability to your Shadowfrost attacks as well as your Movement Speed by 5%, stacking up to 5 times. Modifying your rune weapon requires a Runeforge in Ebon Hold.


    Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle
    5 sec cast
    Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that has a chance to heal you for 6% and increase total Strength by 15% for 15 sec. Increases Armor by 5% and all stats by 5%. Modifying your rune weapon requires a Rune Forge in Ebon Hold.


    Rune of the Blood-Caked Blade
    5 sec cast
    Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that has a chance to heal you for 6% and increase total Strength by 15% for 15 sec. Your auto-attacks also have a chance to cause a Blood-Caked Strike, which hits for (25% of Attack Power) damage plus (12.5% of Attack Power) damage if Frost Fever or Blood Plague is on the target. Modifying your rune weapon requires a Rune Forge in Ebon Hold.


    Rune of the Scourgelord
    5 sec cast
    Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that has a chance to raise a Ghoul to fight by your side as your Death Knight minion for 15 sec. Increases Armor by 5% and all stats by 5%. Modifying your rune weapon requires a Rune Forge in Ebon Hold.











    Annihilation - *** NEW *** - - - Updated - - -
    30 sec cooldown / Instant
    Your next Obliterate critical strike is empowered by your available Runic Power to deal up to an additional 100% critical strike damage. Runic Power is not consumed.


    Death's Advance - Cooldown reduced
    30 sec cooldown / Instant
    For 5 sec, your movement speed is increased by 30%, you cannot be slowed below 100% of normal speed, and you are immune to forced movement effects and knockbacks. Passive: You cannot be slowed below 70% of normal speed.


    Frost Strike - Tuning
    25 Runic Power / Instant / Melee range
    Chill your weapon(s) with icy power, and quickly strike the enemy instantly dealing (55% of Attack Power) as Frost damage. Total damage increased 10% if Frost Fever is on the target.


    Horn of Winter - *** NEW ***
    2 min cooldown / Instant / 100 yd range
    Blow the Horn of Winter, increasing versatility of all party and raid members within 100 yards by 10% for 10 sec.






    Howling Blast - Tuning - - - Updated - - -
    1 Rune / Instant / 30 yd range
    Blast the target with a frigid wind, dealing (14% of Attack Power) Frost damage to that foe, and (7% of Attack power) Frost damage to all other enemies within 10 yards, infecting all targets with Frost Fever.


    Frost Fever - Tuning
    Instant / Unlimited range
    A disease that deals (80% of Attack power [20% of Attack Power every 3 sec.]) Frost damage over 12 sec and grants the Death Knight 5 Runic Power each time it deals damage.


    Obliterate - Tuning + modified mechanics - - - Updated - - -
    2 Runes / Instant / Melee range
    A brutal instant attack that deals (100% of Attack Power) Physical damage and (25% of Attack Power) Frost damage. Frost damage increased 25% if Frost Fever is on the target, but consumes the disease.


    Pillar of Frost - Tuning
    1 min cooldown / Instant
    The power of frost increases your Strength by (10% + (Mastery % / 6)) for 15 sec. Each Rune spent while active increases your Strength by an additional 1%.


    Raise Dead - *** NEW *** - - - Updated - - -
    3 min cooldown / Instant / Melee range
    Raises a Ghoul to fight by your side for 1 min. If no humanoid corpse that yields experience or honor is available, you must supply Corpse Dust to complete the spell. You can have a maximum of one Ghoul at a time.


    Remorseless Winter - Tuning
    1 Rune / 20 sec cooldown / Instant
    Drain the warmth of life from all nearby enemies within 8 yards, dealing (44% of Attack Power [5.5% of Attack Power every 1 sec]) Frost damage over 8 sec and reducing their movement speed by 20%. Total damage increased 10% if Frost Fever is on the target.


    Soul Reaper - *** NEW *** - - - Updated - - -
    1 Rune / 6 sec cooldown
    Strikes an enemy for (50% of Attack Power) and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper.

    After 5 sec. If the target is below 35% Health, this effect will deal (100% of Attack Power) additional
    Shadowfrost Damage. If the enemy dies before the effect is triggered, the Death Knight
    gains 50% Haste for 5 seconds.



    Wraith Walk - Icon Change
    1 min cooldown / 4 sec cast (channeled) / Instant
    Sidestep into the shadowlands, removing all root effects and increasing your movement speed by 70% for 4 sec. Taking any action cancels the effect. While active, your movement speed cannot be reduced below 170%.






    Dark Succor - Combined Dark Succor + Death Strike (Rank 2)
    Passive
    When you kill an enemy that yields experience or honor, your next Death Strike within 20 sec is free and heals for an additional 10% of maximum health. Death Strike's cost is reduced by 10, and its healing is increased by 60%.


    Mastery: Hypothermia - *** NEW *** - - - Updated - - -
    Passive
    Each time Frost Fever deals damage, it has a (Mastery %) chance to erupt Frost Strike (and FrostScythe) has a (Mastery %) chance to cause Frost Fever to erupt, dealing (20% of Attack Power) Frost damage to the target(s). Also increases the damage of your Frost abilities by (Mastery %).


    Rime - Removed Frostscythe and added Icy Touch
    Passive
    Obliterate has a 45% chance to cause your next Howling Blast (Icy Touch) to consume no runes and deal 300% additional damage.











    Inexorable Assault - Icon change & Frostscythe no longer benefits
    Passive
    Gain Inexorable Assault every 8 sec, stacking up to 5 times. Obliterate consumes a stack to deal an additional (20% of Attack Power) Frost damage.


    Cold Heart - Icon change
    Passive
    Every 2 sec, gain a stack of Cold Heart, causing your next Chains of Ice to deal (10% of Attack Power) Frost damage. Stacks up to 20 times.


    Murderous Efficiency - Icon change
    Passive
    Consuming the Killing Machine effect has a 50% chance to grant you 1 Rune.


    Hungering Rune Weapon - *** NEW ***
    1 min cooldown / Instant
    Replaces Empower Rune Weapon. Empower your rune weapon, immediately activating all your runes and generating 25 Runic Power.


    Deathchill - *** NEW *** - - - Updated - - -
    Passive
    Reduces the cooldown of Mind Freeze by 3 sec. Mind Freeze now instantly deals (10% of Attack Power) Frost Damage. Generates 30 Runic Power on a successful interrupt.


    Glacier Rot - *** NEW *** - - - Updated - - -
    Passive
    Frost Fever also infects the target with Glacier Rot, which increases Frost Fever damage taken by 10% and all other Death Knight magic damage taken by an additional 8%.


    Sindragosa's Fury - *** NEW ***
    Passive
    Increases damage dealt by Howling Blast (Icy Touch) to all targets by 100%.


    Howling Blast - Combined Howling Blast + revised Sindragosa's Fury - - - Updated - - -
    1 Rune / Instant / 30 yd range
    Replaces Icy Touch. Blast the target with a frigid wind, dealing (28% of Attack Power) Frost damage to that foe, and (14% of Attack power) Frost damage to all other enemies within 10 yards, infecting all targets with Frost Fever.


    Icy Citadel - Modified Azerite ability
    Passive
    When Pillar of Frost expires, your Strength is increased by (Mastery % / 6) for 6 sec. This effect lasts 2 sec longer for each Obliterate critical strike during Pillar of Frost.


    Volatile Shielding - *** NEW ***
    Passive
    Your Anti-Magic Shell absorbs 35% more damage, and generates 100% additional Runic Power.


    Frigid Dreadplate - Combined Improved Icebound Fortitude + Ice in Your Veins - - - Updated - - -
    Passive
    Reduces the cooldown of Icebound Fortitude by 1 min, and increases its damage reduction effect by 15%. Death Strike heals for 100% more while Icebound Fortitude is active.


    Lichborne - Combined & modified Icebound Fortitude + Lichborne + Ice in Your Veins
    4 min cooldown / Instant
    Replaces Icebound Fortitude. Draw upon unholy energy to become undead for 10 sec. While undead, all damage is reduced by 40% and you are nearly unstoppable becoming immune to Stun, Snare, Fear and Root effects. Death Strike heals for 100% more while Lichborne is active. Passive: Reduces the duration of Silence effects by 25%.


    Frostscythe - Icon Change
    25 Runic Power / Instant / Melee range
    A sweeping attack that strikes all enemies in front of you for (40% of Attack power) Frost damage. Total damage increased 10% if Frost Fever is on the target.


    Icecap - Icon change & tuning
    Passive
    Your critical strikes reduce the remaining cooldown of Pillar of Frost by 2 sec.


    Obliteration - Frostscythe addition
    Passive
    While Pillar of Frost is active, Frost Strike, (Frostscythe), and Howling Blast (Icy Touch) always grant Killing Machine and have a 30% chance to generate a Rune.


    Deathlord's Wrath - *** NEW *** - - - Updated - - -
    Passive / 1.5 PPM
    Your attacks have Obliterate has a (35%) chance to awaken the powers of Northrend, temporarily empowering you and increasing your combat capabilities for 10 sec. Your Speed, Avoidance, and Leech are increased by 10% and your Critical Strike, Haste, Mastery, or Versatility is increased by 20%.







    I feel that the Frost PvP talents are meh overall because we really only have a few viable choices. Reworking the spec has allowed me to try to re-envision the PvP talents to allow for more balanced and hopefully fun choices. I personally feel that ALL PvP talents for ALL Classes should provide options ONLY applicable to defense/utility, slows/stuns, etc. and heals; PvP talents should not affect damage in any capacity. Unfortunately that would mean I would need to consider or rework every Class PvP talents and abilities to make any sense of my Frost envisioning. No thanks



    Frozen Grip - Frost variation of Walking Dead
    Passive
    Your Death Grip also chills the target and causes them to be unable to move faster than normal movement speed for 8 sec.


    Death's Reach - Available to Frost
    Passive
    Increases the range of Death Grip by 10 yds. Killing an enemy that yields experience or honor resets the cooldown of Death Grip.


    Unholy Command - Available to Frost
    Passive
    Your Death Grip has two charges.


    Icy Touch - *** NEW ***
    1 Rune / Instant / 30 yrd range
    Chills the target for (14% of Attack power) Frost damage, infecting them with Frost Fever, and instantly removes one helpful Magic effect from that foe.


    Hungering Cold - *** NEW ***
    40 Runic Power / Instant / 1 min cooldown
    Purges the earth around the Death Knight of all heat. Enemies within 10 yards are trapped in ice, preventing them from performing any action for 10 sec and infecting them with Frost Fever. Enemies are considered Frozen, but any damage other than diseases will break the ice.
    Last edited by Ruunicus; 2020-01-04 at 01:26 AM.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire JacobusRex's Avatar
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    I HIGHLY approve of this! <3

  3. #3
    I'm on board if for no other reason than Breath of Sindragosa is gone.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  4. #4
    The Patient Frinata's Avatar
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    Not a bad theorycraft, all in all. Just one thing

    They've done away with Reagents for spells, so the notion of Raise Undead requiring you to provide Corpse Dust is from a time long past. I really don't see the idea of one specc suddenly requiring reagents again. Some particular RPG elements just need to die in order for a MMO to thrive the longer the MMO goes on in life

    Awesome Sig/Avatar by the lovely Rivellana

  5. #5
    Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that has a chance to heal you for 6% and increase total Strength by 15% for 15 sec. Your attacks also have a chance to drain a Soul Fragment granting you 0.5% Strength. When you have acquired 10 Soul Fragments you will unleash CHAOS BANE, dealing Shadow damage split between all enemies within 15 yards and granting you 10% Strength for 5 sec.
    Nitpicky but I think that needs a name change. Seems more like a DH or Warlock naming style.

  6. #6
    No Breath? No Frostwyrm? The only thing I'd want changed on the current Frost iteration is bringing back 2-Handers and allow some more rune-based burst damage in pvp. I currently really enjoy Frost, except for the 2 globals pressing ERW and PoF

    If I recall, Oblit originally consumed diseases, so I really wouldn't want that to return. It was not good
    Last edited by Th3Scourge; 2019-12-06 at 11:38 PM.

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Laubman's Avatar
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    Looks pretty nice.
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    What if the big baddie is the friends we made along the way?

  8. #8
    Looks really good. You should post this on wow forums as they said they are looking for ideas sorta. Or might just get ideas

  9. #9
    I like it for the most part, only 1 thing i personally would like to see changed. And that is the Glacier Rot's +8% spell dmg taken debuff. I mean, who would choose the other two if you didn't have someone else in the raid/party with the debuff? Actually, it kinda forces the player to choose it for the sole purpose of the debuff, even in solo content... 8% more frost damage taken on a target is a lot. Maybe make glacier rot baseline, but without the frost fever extra and put something else in its place? Or maybe give the 8% magic debuff to the other two in some way?

    Either way, nicely done. One of the best and most realistic dk wish list i've seen in a looong time.

  10. #10
    You have put some time and effort into this, so I will give some detailed feedback because I appreciate anyone offering ideas to improve the class.

    First, I'm torn on the runeforge idea. Originally the boon of our reforges was that they were free enchants back when weapon enchants were a thing. Nowadays, they are just passive damage that requires us to go to Acherus every time we get a new weapon. Furthermore, they complicate switching specs. Either you keep multiple weapons which may or may not be the same ilvl and deal with it or you continue to switch runeforges every time you need to switch specs. At this point, I would prefer them to remove all runeforges except RotFC and have that be the class-wide choice. There are other places to add more flavor to the class.

    Annihilation is a bad idea. We would literally have nothing to do over half the time.

    Horn of Winter is not a bad idea. Group utility is always welcomed.

    Trust me when I tell you that we do not want Obliterate consuming Frost Fever again. That's just annoying and further slows things down since FF now generates RP.

    Personally, I hope that the Raise Dead ghoul will be permanent for all specs. But with a way for all specs (including Unholy) to opt out. It's a bit lacking as just a cooldown compared to Army of the Dead.

    The Deathchill idea would be mandatory in too many aspects of the game. Rule of thumb is not to mix utility and throughput. That rule can be broken, but it's hard to pull off.

    Glacier Rot would be mandatory as well. Very OP. Especially in PvE.

    I like the current version of Sindragosa's Fury, so I wouldn't want to see that change.

    Volatile Shielding: See Deathchill above.

    The Lichborne idea would be mandatory for PvP. Just adding the heal to IBF would make a fine talent. Combining the Lichborne addition as a PvP talent still makes more sense.

    If you have read any of my theorycrafting, then you know I believe that Frostscythe should be made baseline with the design of the spec (Killing Machine) revolving around that fact.

    The Frozen Grip idea doesn't work. We move so slow that it just doesn't help us. That's why we are one of the few classes that can slow our enemies by 70%.

    Death's Reach gets much more play in PvE. It needs to be a PvE talent or baseline.

    Unholy Command and Death's Reach need to be combined into 1 talent IMO.

    Bringing back Icy Touch as a PvP Talent that dispells magic is a good idea. Not sure about it replacing Howling Blast. But considering how much we already have to use Chains of Ice, it might be a better idea to add the effect there instead of a whole new ability.

    I have fond memories of Hungering Cold, but we can now stun people with Remorseless Winter which is technically better.

    Lastly, why add Hypothermia to our Mastery? What benefit would that be?
    Last edited by Clash the DK; 2019-12-07 at 08:37 AM.

  11. #11
    The Patient Ruunicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frinata View Post
    Not a bad theorycraft, all in all. Just one thing

    They've done away with Reagents for spells, so the notion of Raise Undead requiring you to provide Corpse Dust is from a time long past. I really don't see the idea of one specc suddenly requiring reagents again. Some particular RPG elements just need to die in order for a MMO to thrive the longer the MMO goes on in life
    You nailed exactly the reason I thought it "would" be fun to bring it back but I also think you're right. Reagents do add a blah component that does get tiresome. I'll remove that part shortly. Your point is very valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
    Nitpicky but I think that needs a name change. Seems more like a DH or Warlock naming style.
    This is actually what it's already called (it's a downgraded Shadowmourne proc) so that's why I used it. I 100% agree that a name change is in order
    Quote Originally Posted by Acherus01 View Post
    I like it for the most part, only 1 thing i personally would like to see changed. And that is the Glacier Rot's +8% spell dmg taken debuff. I mean, who would choose the other two if you didn't have someone else in the raid/party with the debuff? Actually, it kinda forces the player to choose it for the sole purpose of the debuff, even in solo content... 8% more frost damage taken on a target is a lot. Maybe make glacier rot baseline, but without the frost fever extra and put something else in its place? Or maybe give the 8% magic debuff to the other two in some way?

    Either way, nicely done. One of the best and most realistic dk wish list i've seen in a looong time.
    The debuff only applies to the Death Knight. The 8% extra magic damage would not give everyone in a Raid/Party an extra 8%. My apologies for not making that clear. If that still feels too much, I could definitely rework it to be a lower amount or maybe just keep the Frost Fever damage increase and remove the Magic Damage debuff?
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Annihilation is a bad idea. We would literally have nothing to do over half the time.
    Good point but I do see it as an "optional" cooldown. It's not something that would always be used. The consequence is that you sacrifice all your Runic Power for the bigger hit. This slows down the spec (which I'm okay with). You may still be fully correct though as I didn't think of how much downtime it could generate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Trust me when I tell you that we do not want Obliterate consuming Frost Fever again. That's just annoying and further slows things down since FF now generates RP.
    Very true. Both yourself and T3heScourge bring up a great point. I do now remember it being "weird". I will remove that mechanic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    The Deathchill idea would be mandatory in too many aspects of the game. Rule of thumb is not to mix utility and throughput. That rule can be broken, but it's hard to pull off.
    I don't see it the same way due to Mind Freeze being a silence and not an "additional" stun like the other 2 options offer. It does seem like the preferred choice in many more scenarios but I still feel I designed the talent tier with viable options (maybe it should just be the cooldown reduction OR the damage though and not both?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    The Lichborne idea would be mandatory for PvP. Just adding the heal to IBF would make a fine talent. Combining the Lichborne addition as a PvP talent still makes more sense.
    Great point and I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    If you have read any of my theorycrafting, then you know I believe that Frostscythe should be made baseline with the design of the spec (Killing Machine) revolving around that fact.
    I felt that Frostscythe should just be an AOE version of Frost Strike. A Runic Power ability and not an alternative to Obliterate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    The Frozen Grip idea doesn't work. We move so slow that it just doesn't help us. That's why we are one of the few classes that can slow our enemies by 70%.
    I don't understand why this doesn't work. It's a grip to us and a slow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Bringing back Icy Touch as a PvP Talent that dispells magic is a good idea. Not sure about it replacing Howling Blast. But considering how much we already have to use Chains of Ice, it might be a better idea to add the effect there instead of a whole new ability.
    I used this talent to switch Howling Blast to a single-target ability with an added bonus. I kept the damage the exact same. I felt it was good trade off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    I have fond memories of Hungering Cold, but we can now stun people with Remorseless Winter which is technically better.
    This is my unfinished part. I had reserved myself to remove the Remorseless Winter stun for this talent but I hadn't realized it to fruition (or plan) yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Lastly, why add Hypothermia to our Mastery? What benefit would that be?
    Hypothermia is WAAAAAAAY more interesting even if it's still passive. The fact that Mastery affects the chance to proc and not only the damage is, in my opinion, a great addition.
    Last edited by Ruunicus; 2019-12-07 at 03:07 PM.

  12. #12
    I didn't notice that you had changed Frostscythe to use RP in your mock design. I do agree that is a valid approach to the talent within that scenario. Obliterate and Frostscythe competing for KM just doesn't feel good since there is a complete lack of control due to the innate RNG of the mechanic. Changing it to cost RP solves the problem and that is the most important thing.

    Regarding Mind Freeze, it's off the GCD. So, if it were to deal damage, everybody would take that since it's free damage.

    Another point about Annihilation, realize FS and Obliterate currently hit for similar amounts. You would deal more damage just hitting one FS rather than using that cooldown. And that's ignoring the fact that you just drained all your RP.

    I'm confused. The current Walking Dead PvP talent works exactly like what your proposing with Frozen Grip. I believe that Chains of Ice should be available to all specs including Blood. And all specs should be able to pick up the ability to root with CoI. Whenever possible, I think that utility should be the same across all specs as a unifying feature going forward.

  13. #13
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruunicus View Post

    "An icy harbinger of doom, channeling runic power and delivering vicious weapon strikes."

    I had fun with my Unholy Death Knight "Necromancer" concept so I wanted to try my hand at Frost Death Knights. I realize this won't be everyone's cup of tea as I decided to design up the Frost specialization specifically to my own likes and wants and hopes.
    Some surprisingly good ideas in there.

    I don't care for the mastery though, 'random frost eruption' doesn't make sense to me thematically and risks being too RNG. Where as most (not all, I know) Mastery stats tend to be more of a straightforward dps increase - e.g. increase all frost damage you deal.

    No complaints otherwise though.

  14. #14
    The Patient Ruunicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    I didn't notice that you had changed Frostscythe to use RP in your mock design. I do agree that is a valid approach to the talent within that scenario. Obliterate and Frostscythe competing for KM just doesn't feel good since there is a complete lack of control due to the innate RNG of the mechanic. Changing it to cost RP solves the problem and that is the most important thing.

    Regarding Mind Freeze, it's off the GCD. So, if it were to deal damage, everybody would take that since it's free damage.

    Another point about Annihilation, realize FS and Obliterate currently hit for similar amounts. You would deal more damage just hitting one FS rather than using that cooldown. And that's ignoring the fact that you just drained all your RP.

    I'm confused. The current Walking Dead PvP talent works exactly like what your proposing with Frozen Grip. I believe that Chains of Ice should be available to all specs including Blood. And all specs should be able to pick up the ability to root with CoI. Whenever possible, I think that utility should be the same across all specs as a unifying feature going forward.
    I see what you're saying about Mind Freeze. I'll revisit it.

    I'm going to reconsider Annihilation from your standpoint. I'm going to compare direct % damage to realize if it's worth a change or just removal of Annihilation. I wanted it to make sense to do the "big hit" but at a cost. It needs to feel like an important decision.

    Frozen Grip is Walking Dead for Frost. I had actually started out with it being associated with Chains of Ice but I didn't want the overlap so, in a resigned manner, I just gave Walking Dead a Frost theme

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Some surprisingly good ideas in there.

    I don't care for the mastery though, 'random frost eruption' doesn't make sense to me thematically and risks being too RNG. Where as most (not all, I know) Mastery stats tend to be more of a straightforward dps increase - e.g. increase all frost damage you deal.

    No complaints otherwise though.
    Thanks. I didn't want to push the Mastery too much and I wanted to add some flavour. In this case, I only added the Hypothermia effect and kept the current Frost Mastery intact. I made Mastery affect the proc chance and not the damage of the flare up as it increases the importance of Mastery by stabilizing increased damage (in other words, RNG be damned so I figured I'd add in a small way to reduce something RNG.)
    Last edited by Ruunicus; 2019-12-07 at 04:31 PM.

  15. #15
    Honestly, I hate Mastery. It serves no real purpose. Generally, people like the choice to hit harder or faster. Crit and Haste covers that just fine. It's a simple choice that allows customization in how your character feels to play (min/maxing notwithstanding). For any classes that may have an interesting Mastery, those mechanics can just be rolled into each spec on a case by case basis.

    BUT, if Mastery must exist, it really needs to affect Obliterate as our signature hard-hitting rune ability. The fact that it never has is just baffling.

  16. #16
    The Patient Ruunicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Honestly, I hate Mastery. It serves no real purpose. Generally, people like the choice to hit harder or faster. Crit and Haste covers that just fine. It's a simple choice that allows customization in how your character feels to play (min/maxing notwithstanding). For any classes that may have an interesting Mastery, those mechanics can just be rolled into each spec on a case by case basis.

    BUT, if Mastery must exist, it really needs to affect Obliterate as our signature hard-hitting rune ability. The fact that it never has is just baffling.
    While I personally really do like the idea of a Hypothermia Mastery, I see your point. This was my premise behind Annihilation actually.

    The mechanics change I made to Obliterate does mean it gets buffed by Mastery though.

    Maybe:

    Mastery: Decimation - Increases the damage of your Obliterate Frost damage by (Mastery % * ?)?

    I feel I need to rework the Annihilation ability anyway... My take on Obliterate and Frost Strike do give them very large max damage differences. Obliterate does more than 100% more damage than Frost Strike regularly. Add in Killing Machine and max Annihilation and we could see upwards of ((125% Obliterate + 25% Frost Fever bonus) * 2 Critical Strike Damage Killing Machine) + 100% Annihilation) = 600% Obliteration if played perfectly compared to Frost Strike's max (55% Frost Strike + 10% Frost Fever bonus) * 2 Critical Strike Damage) = 130% Frost Strike. The down side to the Obliterate hit is that you just used up almost ALL of your resources to do it.

    Maybe Annihilation works better with a pooling concept without the negative Runic Power attachment:

    Annihilation - (30 sec cooldown / Instant) Your next Obliterate critical strike is empowered by your available Runic Power to deal up to an additional 100% critical strike damage. Runic Power is not consumed.
    Last edited by Ruunicus; 2019-12-08 at 05:59 PM.

  17. #17
    Great job, you put a lot of time and work into this.

    Best thing about this is no Breath of Sindragosa, which is the dumbest thing. Frost DK should just be about warp speed attacks killing everyone in an icy frozen death. It should have a simple quick rotation, and no gimmick long cool down attack. Just a few spells, super fast , rinse and repeat.
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2019-12-07 at 08:50 PM.

  18. #18
    i'd play that in a heartbeat!

  19. #19
    My initial impressions were the rotation was unplayable.

    The idea that you'd Howling Blast to apply Frost Fever, then Obliterate would remove both Frost Fever and all the Runic Power.
    Would have just created a rotation where you were starved all the time just alternating between Howling Blast and Obliterate.

    The Mind Freeze doing damage has gotten a lot of hate in the thread, but I see one EZ fix for that. Make the damage only happen on successful interrupt, then its just the same as the Demon Hunter interrupt, although theirs is baseline this is a talent.
    _____________________________________________
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  20. #20
    The Patient Ruunicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinzaram View Post
    My initial impressions were the rotation was unplayable.

    The idea that you'd Howling Blast to apply Frost Fever, then Obliterate would remove both Frost Fever and all the Runic Power.
    Would have just created a rotation where you were starved all the time just alternating between Howling Blast and Obliterate.

    The Mind Freeze doing damage has gotten a lot of hate in the thread, but I see one EZ fix for that. Make the damage only happen on successful interrupt, then its just the same as the Demon Hunter interrupt, although theirs is baseline this is a talent.
    I agree completely. It was an easy change to consider as I simply didn't think about the downtime. While Annihilation is still a cooldown and doesn't affect Obliterate until you want it to, it didn't make sense to have it consume your Runic Power. The penalty of the ability was too much; same with Obliterate's consumption of Frost Fever.

    I agree about the Mind Freeze fix. Great idea! I'll be changing it shortly as per your suggestion.
    Last edited by Ruunicus; 2019-12-10 at 08:16 PM.

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