Frost Death Knight - Concept

[Ruunicus]

Icy Touch

Yeah, it was a great idea Kithelle. I remember how it was in Wrath and I enjoyed Icy Touch (and Sigils ) very much. Switching Howling Blast to a talent with 100% extra damage fit perfectly.

[Sinzaram]

Yeah, it was a great idea Kithelle. I remember how it was in Wrath and I enjoyed Icy Touch (and Sigils ) very much. Switching Howling Blast to a talent with 100% extra damage fit perfectly.

So you have Single Target dot application baseline without a spell to spread it now?

Also one thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is Rime or Freezing Fog or free Howling Blast procs, whatever you wanna call it.
One important thing Legion did was make that proc give Howling Blast 300% extra damage, and nerfing the baseline damage to its current levels. This change rightfully killed the Howling Blast spamming rotations that existed between Cata and WoD.

If Icy Touch or Howling Blast has too high a damage baseline, it will become spammed for Ranged damage and AoE damage again.

Without Rime, Obliterate and melee skills do fall behind historically.

[Ruunicus]

So you have Single Target dot application baseline without a spell to spread it now?

Also one thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is Rime or Freezing Fog or free Howling Blast procs, whatever you wanna call it.
One important thing Legion did was make that proc give Howling Blast 300% extra damage, and nerfing the baseline damage to its current levels. This change rightfully killed the Howling Blast spamming rotations that existed between Cata and WoD.

If Icy Touch or Howling Blast has too high a damage baseline, it will become spammed for Ranged damage and AoE damage again.

Without Rime, Obliterate and melee skills do fall behind historically.

Yes, Icy Touch is baseline and single target. I felt converting Howling Blast to a talent would be a great addition as I felt that Frost "also" having a (baseline ability) to be able to spread diseases would be too much (maybe not?) I used almost the exact same damage output it has now on live (for Icy Touch) and then doubled it for Howling Blast (as per a modified Freezing Fog as well as to make it a viable talent choice).

I didn't post any talents or abilities that I didn't change. Rime, etc. all still exist. I just felt no need to change it. I will update it though as it would now also apply to Icy Touch.

[Kithelle]

Yeah, it was a great idea Kithelle. I remember how it was in Wrath and I enjoyed Icy Touch (and Sigils ) very much. Switching Howling Blast to a talent with 100% extra damage fit perfectly.

Maybe it's silly but I just miss it so much...both the sound and visual effects were nice!

[Clash the DK]

One important thing Legion did was make that proc give Howling Blast 300% extra damage, and nerfing the baseline damage to its current levels. This change rightfully killed the Howling Blast spamming rotations that existed between Cata and WoD.

If Icy Touch or Howling Blast has too high a damage baseline, it will become spammed for Ranged damage and AoE damage again.

Without Rime, Obliterate and melee skills do fall behind historically.

They had the right idea in having Rime increase Howling Blast damage with the proc. But, they went too far with the 300% increase. It should have only been 100% at maximum. Because now the base damage of Howling Blast is too low and that neutered all of our ranged damage potential. There is a fine line in keeping the rotation in check without removing the fun and utility. This is one of my biggest complaints about the current design and it needs to be fixed immediately.

[Aleloron]

Ooh ooh oooooohhh... Unholy DK next, please and thank you.

[Ruunicus]

They had the right idea in having Rime increase Howling Blast damage with the proc. But, they went too far with the 300% increase. It should have only been 100% at maximum. Because now the base damage of Howling Blast is too low and that neutered all of our ranged damage potential. There is a fine line in keeping the rotation in check without removing the fun and utility. This is one of my biggest complaints about the current design and it needs to be fixed immediately.

300% equates to approx. 84% of Attack Power (in this concept) and it's actually very similar on live. Increasing the base damage "could" push it to being spammable. I feel they made the correct choice by utilizing Rime to boost the ability as it forces us to throw in melee range Obliterates (and thus successfully removes the viability of spamming Icy Touch or Howling Blast as it's too weak to use without the purpose of applying Frost Fever or using up Rime.)

[Clash the DK]

300% equates to approx. 84% of Attack Power (in this concept) and it's actually very similar on live. Increasing the base damage "could" push it to being spammable. I feel they made the correct choice by utilizing Rime to boost the ability as it forces us to throw in melee range Obliterates (and thus successfully removes the viability of spamming Icy Touch or Howling Blast as it's too weak to use without the purpose of applying Frost Fever or using up Rime.)

As long as Rime increases the damage of Howling Blast by 100%, then it will never be optimal to spam Howling Blast like back in the old days.

But, we don't want Howling Blast to hit like a wet noodle without Rime as it does now so that we have some decent ranged damage. We have low mobility and our ranged capabilities is what has traditionally helped offset that fact. Therefore, we need the Rime bonus to be 100% instead of 300% so that the base damage of Howling Blast can be safely increased.

[Ruunicus]

As long as Rime increases the damage of Howling Blast by 100%, then it will never be optimal to spam Howling Blast like back in the old days.

But, we don't want Howling Blast to hit like a wet noodle without Rime as it does now so that we have some decent ranged damage. We have low mobility and our ranged capabilities is what has traditionally helped offset that fact. Therefore, we need the Rime bonus to be 100% instead of 300% so that the base damage of Howling Blast can be safely increased.

Actually I'm incorrect, 300% equates to 112% of Attack Power and not 84%. Sorry.

I'm not sure I'm feeling it but maybe it could work as you suggest and double the base damage and limit Rime to 100% instead of 300%? It would definitely be a buff even if it's not buffing Rime (as it would be a wash when Rime procs). I just figured Icy Touch and Howling Blast should hit like a wet noodle unless Rime procs as I envisioned it as more of just an applicator without Rime. You're right about how our ranged capabilities previously did make up for our mobility. To try to overcome this, I kept Death's Advance as a baseline ability and I added Wraith Walk to our baseline abilities. It's not enough? I felt any other mobility concerns should be addressed within our PvP talents.

[Sinzaram]

As long as Rime increases the damage of Howling Blast by 100%, then it will never be optimal to spam Howling Blast like back in the old days.

I don't recall the number, but Rime had a low Howling Blast bonus in WoD, and the Masterfrost or dual wield rotation of Howling Spam into highly tuned Frost Strikes still applied though.

As for Icy Touch being baseline and a talented Howling Blast in this concept thread; there's now a massive difference in power here just because of no AoE Frost Fever vs AoE Frost Fever.
If a DK were to play Glacial Rot or Icy Citadel talents in your example, they would have lower RP income than other specs for a start, let alone the bonus of having an AoE Dot doing passive damage.

Glacial Rot boosts Frost Fever damage, now we have to tab target Icy Touches to make use of that bonus? Let alone setup the boost to all other aoe DK Magic damage like RW and Frostscythes.

Icy Citadel would suffer similarly with less RP income from Frost Fever, would mean less Obliterates and less runes to funnel into that dps window.

I don't see a world with a talented Howling Blast existing, just because of the BFA backlash of so many baseline things becoming talents.

[Ruunicus]

I don't recall the number, but Rime had a low Howling Blast bonus in WoD, and the Masterfrost or dual wield rotation of Howling Spam into highly tuned Frost Strikes still applied though.

As for Icy Touch being baseline and a talented Howling Blast in this concept thread; there's now a massive difference in power here just because of no AoE Frost Fever vs AoE Frost Fever.
If a DK were to play Glacial Rot or Icy Citadel talents in your example, they would have lower RP income than other specs for a start, let alone the bonus of having an AoE Dot doing passive damage.

Glacial Rot boosts Frost Fever damage, now we have to tab target Icy Touches to make use of that bonus? Let alone setup the boost to all other aoe DK Magic damage like RW and Frostscythes.

Icy Citadel would suffer similarly with less RP income from Frost Fever, would mean less Obliterates and less runes to funnel into that dps window.

I don't see a world with a talented Howling Blast existing, just because of the BFA backlash of so many baseline things becoming talents.

You're 100% correct. I didn't consider the loss in RP. I'm now thinking that Icy Touch and Howling Blast should both be baseline and do very similar damage (this would give us the option for Single Target when needed) and then talent in a damage increase (Freezing Fog, etc.)

Excellent point Sinzaram!

[Powerogue]

as someone who started frost in BFA and likes it the way it is some of these ideas sound good but it'd be pretty overwhelming to change to.
-dual and 2h, wouldn't matter to me. IDK why people go nuts over it, but sure, give us 2Hs.

-i know horn of winter is a classic ability but looking at it, it would be super boring. buffing vers for a pretty short period relative to the CD, and a stat that, unlike something like haste or crit, you don't really see/feel the difference without looking directly at a DPS chart addon.

-I think our self healing is already decently strong with DARK SUCC, since it has no cooldown. 60% healing increase sounds like it could make us overpowered.


-not against ghouls either, I don't find nearly enough undead around to enslave. though Shadowlands might be a good expansion for that, those sorts of abilities always wind up underused unless you're "in the right expansion." They could make it like warlocks where we each get a different TYPE of undead following us around. Plague spitting boi for disease spec, frozen ghoul for us, and a bloodsucker for blood.

[Clash the DK]

I don't recall the number, but Rime had a low Howling Blast bonus in WoD, and the Masterfrost or dual wield rotation of Howling Spam into highly tuned Frost Strikes still applied though.

Rime didn't boost Howling Blast damage in WoD. That additional mechanic was introduced in Legion, which caused the death of Masterfrost.

[Sinzaram]

Rime didn't boost Howling Blast damage in WoD. That additional mechanic was introduced in Legion, which caused the death of Masterfrost.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Empowered_Obliterate

Empowered Obliterate
Frost death knight Draenor Perk
Passive
Obliterate also increases the damage done by Howling Blast and Icy Touch by 20% when it causes them to cost no runes.

It was only 20%, now I've found the number, but it still existed.

[Goradan]

Looks fucking fantastic but I think that wow has too many abilities that are forced onto a role and that the core gameplay needs a revamp. Excellent execution, but it's on poor foundations.

[Clash the DK]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Empowered_Obliterate

Empowered Obliterate
Frost death knight Draenor Perk
Passive
Obliterate also increases the damage done by Howling Blast and Icy Touch by 20% when it causes them to cost no runes.

It was only 20%, now I've found the number, but it still existed.

Ah, I forgot about the Draenor Perks. Nevertheless, my original point stands. Having Rime increase Howling Blast damage by 100% is enough to keep the rotation intact while still allowing Howling Blast to be tuned to deal adequate damage without Rime.

[arboachg]

Nitpicky but I think that needs a name change. Seems more like a DH or Warlock naming style.

This was the name of the proc from Shadowmourne.

[shade3891]

Great concept!! Would very much like this ingame.

[Ruunicus]

I reverted Icy Touch back to Howling Blast. It makes sense from a Runic Power generation standpoint. I kept the damage of Howling Blast near the same as live and reverted the associated talent back to the modified Sindragosa's Fury / Freezing Fog mix - a passive boost. I feel this will still keep it from being a viable spam button but also give it a bit of a kick. No changes to Rime. I personally feel Blizzard has it right (to keep us from powering up Howling Blast too much and allowing us to viably "range" spam our targets).

[Xkiller9000]

This seems every similar to the current Frost, the issue with that for me, is animations/SFX aside, Frost is an incredibly boring spec thats been mostly the same since wotlk and is in DESPERATE need of a complete overhaul