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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Nope just seemed like an insult that went much farther and he kept pressing the issue. If he hadn't of provoked him it wouldn't have been an issue. You can't insult someone and then expect them to sit there and not respond with their own insult.
    Accusing someone of being in Thailand for child sex/trafficking/getting a child-bride isn't an insult. It's a serious accusation of illegality. Do you think doxxing someone is just an insult too?

    Lol, yes you can. It's called the block button. Or just laugh in their face. You think like a child.

    How people think legal precedent should work for twitter.


    1. Find a celebrity/rich person with a lot of followers.

    2. Insult them until they respond.

    3. Sue that person for responding like a human being when insulting them back.

    4. Profit.
    Human beings generally respond with "fuck off ya cunt" rather than spending money on a PI to follow them around just so they can sling more mud.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Accusing someone of being in Thailand for child sex/trafficking/getting a child-bride isn't an insult. It's a serious accusation of illegality. Do you think doxxing someone is just an insult too?

    Lol, yes you can. It's called the block button. Or just laugh in their face. You think like a child.
    He could have easily blocked Musk just as easily. You act like the guy is innocent in all of this when he is also at fault and probably one of the main reasons for the no guilty plea.
    The worst part about the internet is that it let the truly crazy, racist, and bigots find each other easily.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    He isn't guilty, because to be guilty of something is there needs to be a criminal or civil offense. He might have done those things, but they weren't illegal.

    The only one with a fragile Ego is the guy trying to become a millionaire of his hurt feelers.
    Guilt is not exclusively a legal concept

    He is guilty because he did a moral wrong

    And since he did that through lying his word should not be trusted

    And yes it was all about his fragile ego, he wants to be admired.

    To be clear i am not sure if damages should be involved, damages would take damage incurred and it seems Musk mostly damaged himself except with sycophants
    Last edited by Xarkan; 2019-12-07 at 07:52 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    He could have easily blocked Musk just as easily. You act like the guy is innocent in all of this when he is also at fault and probably one of the main reasons for the no guilty plea.
    What the hell are you talking about? Vernon didn't even say this to Musk on twitter, it was from a televised interview. You don't even have a grasp of the situation and I'm supposed to take this conversation seriously?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    Guilt is not strictly a legal concept

    He is guilty because he did a moral wrong

    And since he did that through lying his word should not be trusted

    And yes it was all about his fragile ego, he wants to be admired.

    To be clear i am not sure if damages should be involved, damages would take damage incurred and it seems Musk mostly damaged himself except with sycophants
    Well, I have been speaking legally this whole time. I don't care about your own personal interpretation of guilt.

    If you insult you, you can't act hurt when they insult you back. Someone who can deal out all the insult they want but not take it. I can't stand those people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? Vernon didn't even say this to Musk on twitter, it was from a televised interview. You don't even have a grasp of the situation and I'm supposed to take this conversation seriously?
    We're talking about the concept of defamation and you lack of grasping how it legally works in the US.

    You're the one who keeps going off on tangents and doing your own insults because you have no real leg to stand on.


    Actually, people hiring PI to follow people around to get more mud on them is a pretty common tactic. It's part of their services last I checked. I would say that definitely falls in line with what Humans generally do when they can afford it.
    The worst part about the internet is that it let the truly crazy, racist, and bigots find each other easily.

  6. #46
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus
    You claimed that it was just an insult, but it went much further than that.
    Erm, ya keep *saying* that, but the jury heard the evidence and didn't agree. You're going to need to do better than just saying "it went much further than that". Proof please.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    Erm, ya keep *saying* that, but the jury heard the evidence and didn't agree. You're going to need to do better than just saying "it went much further than that". Proof please.
    The proof was already provided in this thread, for the nth time. Learn to read. Accusing someone of getting child-brides and doing kiddy-fiddling shit is not just an "internet insult".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    We're talking about the concept of defamation and you lack of grasping how it legally works in the US.

    You're the one who keeps going off on tangents and doing your own insults because you have no real leg to stand on.
    Don't switch the goalposts here. You actually thought Vernon did this on Twitter, hence the "he could've blocked him easily" comment. You don't even know how the events transpired, and that suddenly makes you an armchair lawyer on defamation law?

    Actually, people hiring PI to follow people around to get more mud on them is a pretty common tactic. It's part of their services last I checked. I would say that definitely falls in line with what Humans generally do when they can afford it.
    Hiring a PI is a common theme when people call each other morons on the internet, is it? This just tells me you lack any kind of critical thinking skills here.

    I've called people morons plenty of times throughout the years online, and I can afford a PI. Do I get one? No. Because I'm not someone like Elon Musk who continues to berate someone in public because they told me to piss off in a TV interview. Ego isn't as big.
    Last edited by Fargus; 2019-12-07 at 08:51 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    Erm, ya keep *saying* that, but the jury heard the evidence and didn't agree. You're going to need to do better than just saying "it went much further than that". Proof please.
    Juries aren't infallible.


    You must have a different description of an insult.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Musk basically said he's in Thailand because he's involved in pedo-crime, and accused him of getting a child-bride. That's not really "trading insults", that's accusing someone of committing a serious crime.
    Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised if every member of the Catholic clergy got the same shit flung at them as well. "Accusing" someone of bullshit that you've just pulled out of your ass is pretty meaningless.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2019-12-07 at 11:50 AM.

  10. #50
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heidelstein
    You must have a different description of an insult.
    It would seem so. We've both been on these forums for a while, so I'll assume that you've seen the same flames and arguments that I have with pedo being one of the things tossed around fairly commonly. Can you seriously say that those things should now be worth suing over and be worth as much as a hundred million USD or more?

    What's your horse in this race? Me? I care about the precedent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus
    The proof was already provided in this thread
    No, you've cherry picked some language that apparently triggers you and you think it should trigger me, but that isn't really proof of anything. Again, look at any thread mentioning age of consent or pedophilia here as an example and you'll see child rape thrown around as a legal technicality to add emphasis. Where did Musk make his remarks? On the Internet. What standard should apply? The crap that people talk on the Internet should be taken into account as context.

    One of your big "points" seems to be somebody hired a PI ... with the possibility of litigation, and with truth being a defense in that kind of case. Doh. Of course he did, and were you in that exact situation (not merely quarreling but probably about to be sued for a huge sum) you'd be a fool not to do the same.

    Looking into it a bit more, in case I was missing something in the testimony, I found:
    As part of his defence, Musk is expected to rely on the fact that ‘pedo guy’ was a common insult used in his home country of South Africa and is not the same as calling a person a paedophile.

    “By referring to Mr Unsworth as ‘pedo guy,’ I did not intend to convey any facts or imply that Mr Unsworth had engaged in acts of paedophilia,” Musk said in a September court filing.

    “Pedo guy was a common insult used in South Africa when I was growing up. It is synonymous with ‘creepy old man’ and is used to insult a person’s appearance and demeanour, not accuse a person of paedophilia.”

    In that same filing, Musk defended his decision to double down on the claim, sharing how he hired a private investigator to probe Unsworth and blamed the PI for allegedly giving him bad information.
    Source: https://businesstech.co.za/news/busi...n-case-begins/

    Also this bit on why the jury decided as they did:
    “We were pretty much unanimous from the word ‘go,”’ said Carl Shusterman, a 70-year-old immigration lawyer who served on a jury for the first time.

    Shusterman said the verdict was straight-forward because it wasn’t clear if the tweet was actually about Unsworth, since Musk didn’t name him. The judge told the jurors that was one of the elements required to establish defamation, Shusterman said.
    ...
    Musk told the jury he found Unsworth’s comments in the CNN interview wrong and insulting — especially to his team which he said worked hard to help in the rescue effort — and so he fired back.

    “I thought he was just some random, creepy guy that the media interviewed,” Musk said of Unsworth.

    Neither man impressed Shusterman, the juror. He said there was no need for Unsworth to put down Musk’s mini submarine, and Musk’s response was equally immature.

    “I felt it was like two junior high school students fighting,” Shusterman said.
    Source: https://businesstech.co.za/news/inte...edo-guy-tweet/

    Seems the jury and I saw it in much the same light, jackassery on the Internet. The guy got an apology and a take down, anything else *should* have been held very strictly to the elements of the alleged offense.
    Last edited by shadowmouse; 2019-12-07 at 10:00 AM. Reason: markup
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    It would seem so. We've both been on these forums for a while, so I'll assume that you've seen the same flames and arguments that I have with pedo being one of the things tossed around fairly commonly. Can you seriously say that those things should now be worth suing over and be worth as much as a hundred million USD or more?

    What's your horse in this race? Me? I care about the precedent.
    No one's trying to ruin your life over it though by making it stick. That's the difference here. This it not some back-and-forth you find on these forums, remember this is a public figure with millions of social media followers so his word is clearly going to reverberate a lot more than you or I. No one hired a PI either to justify their comments. While I think the amount is ridiculous, it shouldn't take away from the fact that the comments Musk made and the follow-ups to that has the potential to ruin someone's life. Especially with the fanbase that he has that appears to follow his every word like gospel.

  12. #52
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heidelstein
    No one's trying to ruin your life over it though by making it stick.
    Reality check. If Musk wanted to ruin his life, he wouldn't have just been jacking his jaw on the Internet, and he would have gone a lot further than hiring a PI to investigate in the run up to litigation. There would have been kids paid off to swear that he did things that would have embarrassed Epstein, and there would have been staged photos to back it up, if not an outright entrapment. That's assuming that Musk drew the line at the pedo insult and didn't go on to mess with everyone dear to him.

    Social media gives many people an outsized presence and that often brings controversy, but this is way short of trying to destroy someone and you don't have to look very far in the news to find much more vindictive feuds. Cases set precedent, and big cases often set bad precedent because of the pressures they involve. The jury, which was unusual in that it included a lawyer, felt that the elements of proof for the cause of action were not met. The guy got an apology, the offensive posts were taken down, and he got his day in court with a pretty fancy lawyer to press his case -- looks like things worked as they should have.
    Last edited by shadowmouse; 2019-12-07 at 10:48 AM. Reason: post repeated itself on posting
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Sixty years. One sexagenary cycle complete, a new adventure awaits.
    shadowmouse, previously bungeebungee

  13. #53
    Elon Musk fanboys are hilarious with how far they'll go to defend him.
    Im going to get very unpleasant depending on how motivated your stupidity ends up getting me, so... don't?
    SoundOfGuns trying to look intimidating.

  14. #54
    I guess that makes it ok to mock musk as the pedo guy. Just because musk looks on the noncey side, dosent mean he's an actual pedo

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by HugsForFree View Post
    I guess that makes it ok to mock musk as the pedo guy. Just because musk looks on the noncey side, dosent mean he's an actual pedo
    According to the jury in question you can.. if you make it "ambiguous"

    Like "The cybervan guy" before "pedo guy" instead of naming Musk (to make it not clear it is about Musk, see quotes from one jury member)

    However i would say that if you actually accuse him of such you would reach levels of moral bankruptcy where only people like the electric car rocket man have gone before

    Would you really want that level of bankruptcy?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    According to the jury in question you can.. if you make it "ambiguous"

    Like "The cybervan guy" before "pedo guy" instead of naming Musk (to make it not clear it is about Musk, see quotes from one jury member)

    However i would say that if you actually accuse him of such you would reach levels of moral bankruptcy where only people like the electric car rocket man have gone before

    Would you really want that level of bankruptcy?
    I was very clear. Just because musk looks like a kiddy fiddler, it doesnt mean that he actually is.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Ah, so defamation is perfectly fine as long as you do it via tweet.
    People defame and call one another names on Twitter daily, if not hourly. The whole website is a cesspool of stupid people who like to attack one another. But you don't see people suing one another over it.

    Congrats to the 11 fools who made the ignore list, your ignorance knows no bounds, bravo!

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    Reality check. If Musk wanted to ruin his life, he wouldn't have just been jacking his jaw on the Internet, and he would have gone a lot further than hiring a PI to investigate in the run up to litigation. There would have been kids paid off to swear that he did things that would have embarrassed Epstein, and there would have been staged photos to back it up, if not an outright entrapment. That's assuming that Musk drew the line at the pedo insult and didn't go on to mess with everyone dear to him.
    Musk doesn't need to do these things. An accusation is enough.

    The guy got an apology, the offensive posts were taken down, and he got his day in court with a pretty fancy lawyer to press his case -- looks like things worked as they should have.
    You obviously didn't read his "apology".

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    @Heidelstein So, let's get something clear. Do you actually give a rat's ass about this guy, or the state of the law if this guy had won without proving all of the elements? Or is this all a way for you to say you don't like Musk? I'm seeing nothing in your assertions that say you care anything about the guy or the law, you just have a case of sour grapes.

    "My words were spoken in anger after Mr. Unsworth said several untruths & suggested I engage in a sexual act with the mini-sub," he tweeted late Tuesday night. "Nonetheless, his actions against me do not justify my actions against him, and for that I apologize to Mr. Unsworth and to the companies I represent as leader. The fault is mine and mine alone."
    Source: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-...o-guy-comment/

    Considering that the Internet isn't exactly a great role model for contrite apologies, I don't see a problem with that. What did you expect, for him to buy a round of beer too?
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    @Heidelstein So, let's get something clear. Do you actually give a rat's ass about this guy, or the state of the law if this guy had won without proving all of the elements? Or is this all a way for you to say you don't like Musk? I'm seeing nothing in your assertions that say you care anything about the guy or the law, you just have a case of sour grapes.


    Source: https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-...o-guy-comment/

    Considering that the Internet isn't exactly a great role model for contrite apologies, I don't see a problem with that. What did you expect, for him to buy a round of beer too?
    I'm saying he got away with defamation because he's a billionare with a legion of the best lawyers and a PR department, and the jurors are idiots. One of the quotes you used: "Shusterman said the verdict was straight-forward because it wasn’t clear if the tweet was actually about Unsworth, since Musk didn’t name him." Haha. It wasn't clear now? Nonsense. Everyone and their dog clearly knew who Musk was referring to... except the jurors, it seems!

    That apology is an empty one, considering the one he gave initially. Put someone else in Elon Musk's place with less power, influence and money and they would be found guilty. It happens time and time again, the super-rich get off or get a slap on the wrist. I have been reading correspondence from a journalist from the Guardian who was actually there and made some interesting points. Much more detailed than any news article.

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