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  1. #241
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Diana isn't a goody two shoes like Superman, nor does she have a no kill code like Batman, but she was clearly set up both in the comics and in the DCEU movies as someone who is 100% not okay with killing bystanders. Especially not to satisfy her own personal desires.
    Batman doesn't have a no kill code all the time. There are plenty of times where Batman kills, however, he does often.
    Superman isn't always a goody two shoes.

    Both the characters you listed have in comics deviated from the norm you assign them. Even in movies, they deviate from it.

    So why shouldn't Wonder Woman?
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  2. #242
    It was okay. Not horrible but not remarkable either. It should have always been a "streaming movie".
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Am I the ony one who didn't care for the first movie either?
    Didn't like 1st movie also..dunno why, felt like female capt. america, maybe ww1 bores me

    I was hoping this 2nd movie would be like Thor 3, or Bumblebee was to transformers, a movie that improved the franchise..

    Like, it was so trope-y how she fell in love with literally the first dude she ever meets, and then uproots her whole life to go with him and save him and so on, and so forth.

    And then in this movie it's 70 years later and she's still not over the dude?

    Is this supposed to be what a "well-written female character" is supposed to look like? Cause I heard that so much in re: the first movie, especially in reference to Captain Marvel. Frankly, give me Captain Marvel....and I'm a DC guy, not a Marvel guy.
    Well, it was her first crush, all this 'noise' around the movie, is just cuz she's a woman n people put 'female empowerment' stamp on it, when it's just a movie..I don't mind ww having weaknesses, just the writing is bad..

    I wish they would hand ww3 over to someone else, like Taika Waititi to direct, but he decided to do some star wars movie, like, is he bored or something?...
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2020-12-28 at 09:18 PM.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Batman doesn't have a no kill code all the time. There are plenty of times where Batman kills, however, he does often.
    Superman isn't always a goody two shoes.

    Both the characters you listed have in comics deviated from the norm you assign them. Even in movies, they deviate from it.

    So why shouldn't Wonder Woman?
    Because at some point its kinda too much or dumb. This is different then say wonder women killing a criminal. This is also something they could have literally not done. It serves no purpose, everyone is granted one wish, a real wish. Theres no reason her wish would take over someones body. It also only takes one thing from you. For some reason for wonder women it does two bad things, but also make one thing just gradual for convenience sake... It sounds like you are argueing as someone that did not see the movie. Chris pine face in the movie is for the audience only. Everyone else sees that other person from her building. So her wish literally takes over this guy life, she knows it. Its never addressed, she has sex with him, etc. The biggest morale dilema she had wasent omg im slowly losing my power because i wished for my dead 1 week boy friend back. ITS OMG MY DEAD BOY FRIEND TOOK OVER THE BODY OF THIS FUCKING GUY THAT LIVES NEAR ME. Does he have a family? Whats going on with his job? Mabye i need to find a way to undo my fucking wish to give this person his body back? Even the ending is fucking stupid about it, its literally just wink, we had sex but you dont remember... yes congrats you had sex with this guy body while you put his entire life on pause for one week. Why was this needed for the plot if it amounts to nothing. The wish is fucking magic, Steve can come back in his normal body, its fucking magic whishes ffs.

    No im not gona go insane like twitter and call it rape and stuff. But obviously in a smarter story this is a much bigger moral dilema then "OH NO, Im slowly losing my own powers". You taken someone else body over ffs. This is evil fucking magic shit in any other story. If you can amount this stupid plot point to batman shooting down serial killers sure, except its not consistent in this story where Wonder Women is not played as a villain at all. Like i said if they did not want to address such big moral dilema, they had an easy way out. They did not need to make Steve someone else. Hes been dead since WW1, nobody gona fucking recognize him on the street. Maxwell grants LITERAL WISHES.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2020-12-28 at 09:30 PM.

  5. #245
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Because at some point its kinda too much or dumb. This is different then say wonder women killing a criminal. This is also something they could have literally not done. It serves no purpose, everyone is granted one wish, a real wish. Theres no reason her wish would take over someones body. It also only takes one thing from you. For some reason for wonder women it does two bad things, but also make one thing just gradual for convenience sake... It sounds like you are argueing as someone that did not see the movie. Chris pine face in the movie is for the audience only. Everyone else sees that other person from her building. So her wish literally takes over this guy life, she knows it. Its never addressed, she has sex with him, etc. The biggest morale dilema she had wasent omg im slowly losing my power because i wished for my dead 1 week boy friend back. ITS OMG MY DEAD BOY FRIEND TOOK OVER THE BODY OF THIS FUCKING GUY THAT LIVES NEAR ME. Does he have a family? Whats going on with his job? Mabye i need to find a way to undo my fucking wish to give this person his body back? Even the ending is fucking stupid about it, its literally just wink, we had sex but you dont remember... yes congrats you had sex with this guy body while you put his entire life on pause for one week. Why was this needed for the plot if it amounts to nothing. The wish is fucking magic, Steve can come back in his normal body, its fucking magic whishes ffs.

    No im not gona go insane like twitter and call it rape and stuff. But obviously in a smarter story this is a much bigger moral dilema then "OH NO, Im slowly losing my own powers". You taken someone else body over ffs. This is evil fucking magic shit in any other story.
    Honestly, I think they meant to have a scene that the wishes don't create anything or something. It would make sense if that was the case, but they do a terrible job of explaining anything.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    No im not gona go insane like twitter and call it rape and stuff. But obviously in a smarter story this is a much bigger moral dilema then "OH NO, Im slowly losing my own powers". You taken someone else body over ffs. This is evil fucking magic shit in any other story.
    It's the point I am trying to make, and clearly a lot of other people noticed, but some people just adamantly refuse to acknowledge it.

    It's just bad writing. With like 4 or 5 small tweaks, this entire thing wouldn't have been an issue at all, a huge number of plot holes would be instantly closed and there would have been an actual, real, very serious conflict that Diana would have had to deal with.

    There was no reason to write it the way it was written.

    I actually have a feeling, that this movie got very heavily re-cut for some reason, where a lot of the set up's and pay offs were cut, which would sort of explain what the fuck happened with the script.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Honestly, I think they meant to have a scene that the wishes don't create anything or something. It would make sense if that was the case, but they do a terrible job of explaining anything.
    That could have been the case as well, but it's not that they did a bad job at explaining anything, it's that they just didn't. And not in a sense of -We'll let the audience figure it out, but in a "this is all over the place and we're just winging".
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Honestly, I think they meant to have a scene that the wishes don't create anything or something. It would make sense if that was the case, but they do a terrible job of explaining anything.
    But it does create things for other people. Like i said before its very poorly written we can agree on that. Like i think Jenkins shown she is a good director, but not a writter. At least not one with chops big enough to make story that usally involve complexity like wish granting or time travel. These are just hard as fuck to pull off for everyone. The writting here took too huge a bite, on paper it sounds like a cool idea dont get me wrong, but they simply did not accomplish their idea in the writting. They needed to setup the stone rules better, they needed a set of rules that limit the stone but still made it possible to degenerate into chaos too. Like i said i get this kind of story is hard as fuck to write, which is why mabye if you cant, you should not.

    Theres just to many stuff thats like a bit too much here. Like if you need a guide to explain your movie, outside of your movie. Might need to change your story a bit. Like im forgiving as fuck with movies, i watch garbage anime, etc. But i dont shy away for telling exactly what is shit even with what i enjoy. I did still love Gadot as WW, Always loved Chris Pine even in terrible movies. Plus i thought Pascale was entertaining as fuck, but it just hurts that all these great elements are in such a bad script lol. I even like the premise of the story, it could have been such a smart movie. Instead it was just a not very good story.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2020-12-28 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I actually have a feeling, that this movie got very heavily re-cut for some reason, where a lot of the set up's and pay offs were cut, which would sort of explain what the fuck happened with the script.
    Wouldn't surprise me, apparently that's how we got the terrible ending of the first ww movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  9. #249
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    But it does create things for other people. Like i said before its very poorly written we can agree on that. Like i think Jenkins shown she is a good director, but not a writter. At least not one with chops big enough to make story that usally involve complexity like wish granting or time travel. These are just hard as fuck to pull off for everyone. The writting here took too huge a bite, on paper it sounds like a cool idea dont get me wrong, but they simply did not accomplish their idea in the writting. They needed to setup the stone rules better, they needed a set of rules that limit the stone but still made it possible to degenerate into chaos too. Like i said i get this kind of story is hard as fuck to write, which is why mabye if you cant, you should not.

    Theres just to many stuff thats like a bit too much here. Like if you need a guide to explain your movie, outside of your movie. Might need to change your story a bit. Like im forgiving as fuck with movies, i watch garbage anime, etc. But i dont shy away for telling exactly what is shit even with what i enjoy. I did still love Gadot as WW, Always loved Chris Pine even in terrible movies. Plus i thought Pascale was entertaining as fuck, but it just hurts that all these great elements are in such a bad script lol. I even like the premise of the story, it could have been such a smart movie. Instead it was just a not very good story.
    It is weird to have a story where the central plot item is explained poorly. You either don't explain it at all or you present the rules.

    There is really no in between that works. We never get the rules of the stone besides it takes something from you to grant you your wish, but it is never determined how that was determined except by Max when he was stone as he chose what he wanted to take. But, the stone before Max became it wasn't sentient. And in Max's and Barbara's case what it took related to the wish in some context. Barbara wished to be someone else, so they took her warm personality (so it took what she was to make her like someone else). Max wished to be the stone to get what he wanted to give his son the best life and wishing to be the stone was going to cost him his son in the end.

    But, Diana's cost losing her powers to get Steve back ... where is the connection? If the stone takes something random, why do two of the wishes appear to be non-random (the pre-Max wishes).

    Honestly, next to time travel ... having something that grants wishes is the next easiest story to mess up.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #250
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    It's the point I am trying to make, and clearly a lot of other people noticed, but some people just adamantly refuse to acknowledge it.

    It's just bad writing. With like 4 or 5 small tweaks, this entire thing wouldn't have been an issue at all, a huge number of plot holes would be instantly closed and there would have been an actual, real, very serious conflict that Diana would have had to deal with.

    There was no reason to write it the way it was written.

    I actually have a feeling, that this movie got very heavily re-cut for some reason, where a lot of the set up's and pay offs were cut, which would sort of explain what the fuck happened with the script.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That could have been the case as well, but it's not that they did a bad job at explaining anything, it's that they just didn't. And not in a sense of -We'll let the audience figure it out, but in a "this is all over the place and we're just winging".
    Agreed. The script and overall plot theme was terrible. Nothing Jenkins could really do about that without a complete rewrite. Not her fault, either. I loved the idea of revisiting the '80's - there was so much potential that was left out. And the opening sequence didn't come back to a head at the end.

    The first WW movie was terrific - I know some people didn't like the ending, but I did, and it was great overall.

    Jenkins and Gadot are coming back for WW3, and hopefully the powers that be realize that the script is what is driving any issues with WW'84.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It is weird to have a story where the central plot item is explained poorly. You either don't explain it at all or you present the rules.

    There is really no in between that works. We never get the rules of the stone besides it takes something from you to grant you your wish, but it is never determined how that was determined except by Max when he was stone as he chose what he wanted to take. But, the stone before Max became it wasn't sentient. And in Max's and Barbara's case what it took related to the wish in some context. Barbara wished to be someone else, so they took her warm personality (so it took what she was to make her like someone else). Max wished to be the stone to get what he wanted to give his son the best life and wishing to be the stone was going to cost him his son in the end.

    But, Diana's cost losing her powers to get Steve back ... where is the connection? If the stone takes something random, why do two of the wishes appear to be non-random (the pre-Max wishes).

    Honestly, next to time travel ... having something that grants wishes is the next easiest story to mess up.
    I agree. The entire premise was never explained, and it still wasn't clear what Max was "losing" when he got his wish. And the opening sequence was poorly tied to the ending - even though I "get it", it could have been better. Fundamental script problems are tough to over come. Hopefully new writers will be brought in for WW3.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Agreed. The script and overall plot theme was terrible. Nothing Jenkins could really do about that without a complete rewrite. Not her fault, either.
    Why wasn't it Jenkins' fault? She has the top story and screenwriting credits for the film.

  12. #252
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    Why wasn't it Jenkins' fault? She has the top story and screenwriting credits for the film.
    She shares writing credits with two others. And she didn't in the first one. She also wrote the script for Monster - which was fucking amazing, and she solo wrote.

    The shared credit for writing means she was brought in to fix it as best she could, given what seems to amount to shit to start with. Directors who don't usually write scripts but then get credit typically mean they were trying to fix something after shooting began, and it was going badly.

    And she's not normally a writer/director, having only done it once (with Monster) and specifically not having done it for the first WW.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Someone doesn’t know much about what women deal with on a daily basis...
    Just look at what the women on this website deal with every day, in the year of our lord 2020.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    No, it really did. Take it from someone who actually lived through it.
    So did I.

    People still cat-call now.

    I don't understand your point. Its a badly written scene like the majority of the film.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Just look at what the women on this website deal with every day, in the year of our lord 2020.
    Jenkins had to threated to walk away if she wasn't paid the same as other similar directors doing this kind of high-end sequel work. And I wonder what Gadot got for this.... Same as others?

  16. #256
    I've heard it's awful, but I enjoyed the first one so I'll probably give it a chance.

  17. #257
    That was really really bad. So much of it made absolutely no sense. That was easily the worst DC movie in a long time, rivaling heavy hitters like Green Lantern in my opinion.
    At no point in the movie was there any sort of flow.

    Now let's get Bruce Wayne banging some random chick's body a dead ex love interest's "soul" took over so we can here the woke crowds cry rape.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I've heard it's awful, but I enjoyed the first one so I'll probably give it a chance.
    Be ready for some disappointment. The first one is MUCH better. The writing on the second one is awful, to say the least. Still worth seeing IMO.
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-12-28 at 11:01 PM.

  19. #259
    Brewmaster Knife Pervert's Avatar
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    (Spoilers) Went into it expecting a passable superhero film a'la Captain Marvel or Aquaman, ended up getting easily the worst superhero movie since Batman v Superman. I never got the hype behind the first WW, it felt like another bland origin story in the same vein as Cap. America's first film, but I wasn't expecting this! The script is awful, the direction is awful, the CGI is awful, the fight scenes (which I hesitate to use the plural of since there's barely even 2 with 2 other incredibly anemic attempts thrown in at the beginning and end) are meh to awful, the tropes are old and nothing about the film is even really likable. It's not deep, it's not charming, it's not interesting or compelling or even funny or cool to look at.

    Gal Gadot has no charisma or presence, she's just kind of a stone faced robot who has exactly zero chemistry with Chris Pine. I don't hate her, I don't like her, I'm just kind of ambivalent about her which isn't great for a main character.

    Chris Pine tries his best to add some soul into this, but it's hampered by the whole black hole of chemistry that is Gal as well as the... ya know, mind rape/actual rape thing, as well as the weird flip-flop on what he knows/does not know. Fireworks? Never seen them OR a train apparently, but he sure as fuck knows how to work a jet!

    Pedro Pascal is charming, but more in spite of the film rather than because of it. His ambitions aren't very well fleshed out, his background is haphazardly thrown in there and there's really no reason to find him memorable or interesting beyond the fact that he 'ate' a rock and now has magic powers. Maybe a nitpick but it felt weird that his main reason for giving up his wish was his kid, who he spends the whole movie giving practically zero fucks for, and not the whole... ya know, desolation of mankind and deaths of billions thanks to all the nukes being thrown around.

    Kristen Wiig isn't bad but jesus her character is basically a non-factor in the film by and large and the character itself is so poorly constructed I'm almost impressed. If I see one more goddamn superhero/supervillian whose origin story involves them transforming from a 'mousy nerd with big glasses and oversized clothes who no one cares about' into a 'hot confident go-getter who suddenly has sexy hair and sexy clothes and doesn't need glasses' I'm going to scream. It's been almost THIRTY YEARS since Batman Returns did it with Michelle Pfeiffer, find a new goddamn gimmick! Plus she's a Thundercat for like 30 minutes and doesn't really have an arc or an impact on the film other than handing over the magic mcguffin rock to Pedro like a complete idiot.

    The setting has no relevance to the story, it could have been set just as easily in 1884 and nothing fundamental would be different. Feels like more nostalgia wank-bait we've seen a resurgence of thanks to Stranger Things going sky-high in popularity. But then again the first WW had the same issue, since they opted for WW1 and then turned the bad guys into generic stock nazi tropes regardless so they're 2 for 2 on wasting their setting.

    Honestly the power arc was kind of staggering to me. WW just kinda picks up new abilities with little effort or fanfare. Not like minor shit either, but the ability to fly and turn shit perma-invisible, the latter of which she's only ever done once before (on a coffee cup) and now requires like 2 mins of minor concentration to perfect on a whole goddamn jet. She just kinda does stuff and it's not particularly hyped up or urgent, it's just not there and then bang she can do it. It's not exactly offensive, just felt really hamfisted and poorly executed.

    The CGI/Physics are awful, easily the worst I've seen in a big blockbuster movie since maybe like... Hulk 2003. The scenes where she's running at the camera look atrocious, I laughed every time they did it because all I could picture was that one scene from Monty Python, or some old 70s film with the corny flying/wall climbing scenes.

    Overall if you just want to turn your brain off and watch a dumb movie, you'll probably like this. But then again if you're that kind of person I imagine pretty much any movie would work just as well, if not even better since WW1984 isn't even a pretty film. As for me and my wife we had a blast riffing on it and I can only hope WW3 is just as bad because I had way more fun with this than any other D.C film thus far.
    Last edited by Knife Pervert; 2020-12-28 at 11:07 PM.

  20. #260
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyelessCrow View Post
    That was really really bad. So much of it made absolutely no sense. That was easily the worst DC movie in a long time, rivaling heavy hitters like Green Lantern in my opinion.
    At no point in the movie was there any sort of flow.

    Now let's get Bruce Wayne banging some random chick's body a dead ex love interest's "soul" took over so we can here the woke crowds cry rape.
    Not to derail, but what exactly was wrong with the Green Lantern film? Or was the superhero story itself just not plausible for a decent film? I'm not trying to defend it or agree, just curious.

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