There is no possible way that Sha of fear was only unleashed after we arived. That shit had to be brewing there for much longer. That was basicaly the entire Pandaren philosophy, just bury negative emotions and let them fester. Maybe it was not an intent by writers, but thats how it looks.
It doesn't change the fact that for the Alliance, is particularly frustrating. We were in Pandaria only to oppose the Horde and get Anduin back. We didn't discover the continent and said "We'll paint it blue!" like a certain Warchief did. We weren't the ones trying to slaughter half the world, and yet we were insulted and treated like monsters at every turn by a dumb ass Panda spouting ridiculous philosophy while doing nothing to treat the disease of his land, only abating the symptoms.
Being berated by Zhu makes sense when you're Horde. You've picked the savage and sanguinary faction, full of psycothic orcs and monstorus Undeads who loves to torture and experiment atrociously on innocent peoples. But the Alliance is comprised mostly of peoples who would have been happy to be left alone and now had to band together to defend themselves and the world against the Horde.
That Taran Zhu was initially angry at us is okay. That he never even tries to understand why we fight, why we can't just leave his continent otherwise it'll be annexed by the Horde and reinforce it enough that it'll destroy us makes me an unsufferable asshole. And a blind one, at that.
And the cycle was broken for the rest of MoP and entire WoD...
then a certain banshee did all she could to repair it... and now we're in BFA.
Dunno, how to explain it. WE, i.e. players, are against this war. There are no separate Horde or Alliance, that live on their own. WE are Horde and Alliance. If we were against it back in MOP, if we betrayed and killed our own warchief, then why all of a sudden we changed our minds in BFA and allowed Sylvanas to take the throne, if she was obvious evil? And again. We are against this war now. We expel Sylvanas. So, let's assume, that some evil Garrosh 3.0 will come some day and will try to start another war between Horde and Alliance. Why will we serve him again? Are we that stupid, that we haven't learned two previous lessons? But I'm almost sure, that within 2-3 xpack Blizzard will try to pull this worn off PVP-biased "Faction war"/"Orcs vs humans" card again. No matter, how silly it will look like.
I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.
It depends. Will Horde players vocally ask Blizzard, en masse, to make the Orc and Forsaken society evolve beyond being "Might makes right" and "Unrepentant evil is fun" ? Because as long as those two are held as pinnacle of Western and Eastern Horde philosophy and way of life, you are indeed bound to forget those "lessons".
And I write "lessons" because, frankly, if I was a Hordie, I couldn't wait for the next time I'd wage war on the Alliance : I get to slaughter thousands of them, weakening them ever more each time, and my punishment is to see one leader offed ? Sounds like a pretty great deal. I mean, last time the Alliance iunvaded Orgrimmar. now, it cames knowing that it hadn't the might to even besiege it properly! Next time, they won't even be able to mount a resistance.
So far, Horde aggression has granted it Azshara (the zone), possibly all of Ashenvale, Dustwallow Marsh, Stonetalon, Hillsbrad, the Western Plaguelands and possibly Gilneas, plus the whole of Zandalar; all of this at the cost of Undercity alone. Meanwhile, the Alliance lost Duskwood, Ashenvale, Teldrassil, Theramore, Hillsbrad, Gilneas, Dustwallow Marsh, Stonetalon and its presence in Northernmost Lordaeron has been wiped clean. We gained Stormgarde and kul Tiras, the former of which must be a ruined battlefield dangerously exposed to Forsaken infiltrators and weapons (and won't ever be changed ingame, just like Darkshore anyway) and tenuously reclaimed Darkshore, also war-torn.
That's not exactly a bad result for the Horde.
Stop trying to make "fetch" happen! LOL, this moment meant absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. It meant more when we killed Hogger.
Maybe in 11.0 or 12.0
They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.
I used to be a big supporter of just walking away, break the cycle and let it end instead of constantly getting revenge. But after Teldrassil and the events of BfA in general i completely moved away from believing that will ever work. Nothing less than absolute dissolution of the Horde will ever bring peace to Azeroth, they've demonstrated time and time again that they are inept at leading themselves, so that right must be taken away from them.
Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..
yeah, being attacked without provocation in Stormheim was totaly on her
i mean sure Sylvanas was a warmonger, but its not like alliance was so peaceful towards horde
- - - Updated - - -
while Anduins leadership of alliance is so firm, right?
like there was no unprovoked attack from Greymane against strict orders, that was absolutely ignored by alliance leadership...
any strong and united leadership in alliance died with Varian, since then it seems like every leader and his race does whatever the fuck they want
This is all true, what bothers me the most, is not only the Horde fans want victory, not only they want to crush Alliance, see them humiliated and deprived of everything, but they also want a goddamn moral mandate and a blessing for it. All in the name of "morally gray".
"I enjoy playing the bad guy" is much more honest than "we aren't the bad guys and you started it! and we're mistreated more!" I hear constantly from horde fans.
And literally they're the reason why the cycle cannot be stopped and faction barriers lessened, because Blizzard is too scared to upset them, even if it means depopulation of Alliance and sacrificing that part of the playerbase, but it's justified to sacrifice the smaller part to placate the bigger part, it's not about morality or justice, it's about what's a lesser financial risk.
The only "price" Horde has to pay is that every time there's a faction war it will always end with peace sympathizers (Alliance, Baine, etc.) winning, or Horde leaders turning against each other and the war losing momentum due to in-fighting. That's the only way to preserve the illusion of 2 factions in this game. Because if Alliance wins, they let Horde be, and if Horde wins, they'll delete Alliance from the surface of Azeroth. So if Horde ever wins "lorewise" that's the end of 2 faction gameplay, period.
So with your original comment shot down, you decide to move the goalposts:
I will say this slowly so that hopefully, it sinks in this time. Read it in the sloth's voice from Zootopia for full effect.
Removing.
War mode.
Has nothing.
To do.
With removing.
Battlegrounds.
And furthermore the idea that removing war mode means 'there's no PvP then' is just plain nonsense. There was PvP before and there would be PvP after - it did not begin and end with WM. I'm not sure if you're just being a troll, or just have knee-jerk over-reaching reactions to things, but either way I've wasted enough time on this topic.
Well, because factions have been a thing for 15 years and it's hard to let go. Here's to those who bring the argument of "but this is world of WARcraft". As if fighting the Legion or other threats isn't war.
It does if we follow your reasoning for why we should remove Warmode.
You're arguing that because lore-wise, the war is over, warmode should be removed. That's your reason. But then why are we still warring over Arathi and Alterac and every other Battleground? The war's officially over, so all the fighting should cease. Hence, Battlegrounds need to be removed along with Warmode. The war is over, all warring should stop.
There was PVP before, yes, on PVP servers. However PVP servers have been removed. Instead it was replaced with Warmode. If you remove Warmode, what then?And furthermore the idea that removing war mode means 'there's no PvP then' is just plain nonsense. There was PvP before and there would be PvP after - it did not begin and end with WM.
Last edited by Mic_128; 2019-12-09 at 02:20 PM.
I think what they were going for is, the Pandaren had learned to control angry and fear and such and when you are in an isolated bubble it is pretty easy to maintain control. And then along comes HvA and introduces all kinds of pain and suffering the Pandarians had mostly removed from their daily lives and this the Shas got fed.
I don't view it has they were suppressing emotions, when you live on a beautiful tropical island, it is easy to be happy and care free. Until the savage warmongers show up and poop in your flower bed
I don't think they really pay much attention to the lore. There's a clip from Blizzcon (maybe it was during Q&A) about the jailor where they said 'we didn't even think about muhzella'. They way it was phrased really sounded to me like they were saying they didn't know about muhzella. Meaning that when they are doing story development they don't go back and look at or try to understand lore. They just write whatever.
The game and story would benefit heavily from them paying and listening to a few lore consultants at some key points in story development.
The cycle will not break. It is the logical outcome of a two-faction system where the factions are kept as separate as they are in WoW. I would be surprised if there wasn't another faction war outbreak by 12.0. Maybe Anduin will send Baine a letter with curious wording. Or a leader split from one faction will commit an act that the other faction will paint on the whole first faction. Or just someone will burn another city to the ground.
With the Horde's ability to bounce back from nothing and minimal numbers to winning the War of Thorns in just four short years, we might have another large scale faction conflict pretty soon again. Another "fight for pure survival" (as I believe it was stated in the Cataclysm trailer).
I like World of Warcraft, but, honestly, the whole constant faction animosity is tiresome. Considering how many incredibly large threats from outside both Horde and the Alliance we have faced - and how many we know are still out there, fighting one another is utter stupidity.
It has been in MoP and Cataclysm, and it was in Legion and BfA. And as sad as it is, it will be again.