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  1. #1

    Let's Talk About Chronicle

    Background: Played RTS, played WoW from TBC until end of WoD. Came back this summer and blasted through Legion then up to BFA Pathfinder. Always been story-first, do ALL the quests, finish each storyline, potter about on my own and explore, read some novels, listen to LoreWatch (etc).

    I've got all 3 volumes of Chronicle, but as they're at my family home, and not where I tend to live for work, I've only actually read Volume 1, and am about a third of the way through Volume 2. Vol 3 still in its cellophane. I don't dip my toes in this forum much, usually just check front page for news and go back to seeing what's going on in-game.

    Sounds like Chronicle gets a bit of a kicking here on the boards. What's happened? I was thrilled to finally see things canon and able to reference as the definitive reason for XYZ, etc. Coming at this genuinely naive, not fishing or trying to stir.

    tl;dr: What's the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of Chronicle?
    Last edited by Rioriel; 2019-12-08 at 05:35 PM.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rioriel View Post
    Background: Played RTS, played WoW from TBC until end of WoD. Came back this summer and blasted through Legion then up to BFA Pathfinder. Always been story-first, do ALL the quests, finish each storyline, potter about on my own and explore, read some novels, listen to LoreWatch (etc).

    I've got all 3 volumes of Chronicle, but as they're at my family home, and not where I tend to live for work, I've only actually read Volume 1, and am about a third of the way through Volume 2. Vol 3 still in its cellophane. I don't dip my toes in this forum much, usually just check front page for news and go back to seeing what's going on in-game.

    Sounds like Chronicle gets a bit of a kicking here on the boards. What's happened? I was thrilled to finally see things canon and able to reference as the definitive reason for XYZ, etc. Coming at this genuinely naive, not fishing or trying to stir.
    They first claimed that chronicles are a series of books which would be the "Ultimate lore bible" and advertised them as that.

    Going into this years blizzcon they stated that the chronicles are written from the view of the titans (however that is possible, but hey Blizz writing for you) and as that are ofc extremly flawed.

    And also NOT the ultimate lore bible anymore.

  3. #3
    Something like Chronicles is always stupid as fuck when you are still working on the IP, because it severely limits what you can do storywise.

    It was never a good idea.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    They first claimed that chronicles are a series of books which would be the "Ultimate lore bible" and advertised them as that.
    This is 100% why I was so excited for them, and I'm guessing I'm not alone there. Haven't we been here before with the unreliable narrator thing? Wasn't something previously revealed to be penned by Magni? (Or was that the intro to Chronicle 1? Don't have it to hand)

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Something like Chronicles is always stupid as fuck when you are still working on the IP, because it severely limits what you can do storywise.

    It was never a good idea.
    Backed themselves right into a corner, but at least they have given themselves a get-out-of-retcon-jail-free card just by hand-waving it away. Which, tbh, sucks. Still looking forward to finishing reading 2 and 3 though. Can swim in Azeroth stories for ages.

    How does Chronicle compare to the Book(s) of Cain from the Diablo universe? Is it a similar type of thing?
    Last edited by Rioriel; 2019-12-08 at 05:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Isn't Chornicles already started been retconned?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Isn't Chornicles already started been retconned?
    Seeing that somewhere on here today prompted my question. Wondering what it is in here that I can take with a pinch of salt.

  7. #7
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    It's both true until said otherwise by anything new lore gives us. It doesn't mean everything is false.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz

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  8. #8
    The big one that people took issue with is "The Titans are dead." If you played through Argus and then the Antorus raid when you played Legion, you'll know that this is not true any more, and this was almost immediately after Chronicle V1 released.
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  9. #9
    Over 9000! Orby's Avatar
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    Warcraft 3 retconned Warcraft 2 which in turn retconned a little of Warcraft: Orcs and Humans.

    Right now its more shocking if Blizzard's writing stays consistent. Blizzard's lore has always been known to be a little inconsoitant and its my biggest complaint I have always had dating back to warcraft 3.

    But as someone who has never taken Warcraft's lore so seriously it doesn't really bother me too much, I kind of take Blizzard lore as 'in the moment storytelling' :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2019-12-08 at 06:16 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It's both true until said otherwise by anything new lore gives us. It doesn't mean everything is false.
    Very reasonable, and also doesn't mean anything new automatically "retcons" anything already published. Overused word, I think, when sometimes people mean "new information has been given".

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    The big one that people took issue with is "The Titans are dead." If you played through Argus and then the Antorus raid when you played Legion, you'll know that this is not true any more, and this was almost immediately after Chronicle V1 released.
    Their physical bodies were destroyed, Norgannon tried to transmit their souls into the Keepers but was unsuccessful, doing nothing more than tipping Ra-den off that they had died causing him to go into a depression and allow a lot of bad things to happen to Azeroth. How is finding out where their souls have been since then a retcon? Because from my understanding of the word, it's not.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  12. #12
    As far as entertainment factor, I didn't find much. It's very dense. I'd frankly rather skim Wowpedia, which is probably more what I was expecting, going into it. It kind of loses value with each volume, as the more of the perspective of whoever canonically writes it gives us, the less it's worth. Plus, if and ever the canonical writers are irrelevant to the story, then it really wouldn't be worth having. Also kind of begs the question how many times they'll go about reselling the same events by other perspectives later down the line, which is a big turn-off. Like, am I going to have to re-buy these same books but in Old God flavor? Especially when they're already a chore to get through, that's just... mean. Like, I just wanted to know stuff, man. I didn't ask to jump through hoops.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioriel View Post
    Very reasonable, and also doesn't mean anything new automatically "retcons" anything already published. Overused word, I think, when sometimes people mean "new information has been given".
    Definitely overused. People need to learn what it means. Knowing something happened, then later finding out why or how it happened, or what happened later, is not a retcon. Changing the role of the eredar from the demons who corrupted Sargeras to beings HE corrupted IS a retcon. I've yet to find something in Chronicles that is.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioriel View Post
    Seeing that somewhere on here today prompted my question. Wondering what it is in here that I can take with a pinch of salt.
    That's the problem when the lore either changes too often or gets retconned, without consistency, you can't take anything seriously.

    Now a lot of what people say is retcon isn't actually, it's just new information, but saying that htere are retcons, and sometimes when they give "new " information, the recast established stuff in a different light.. now that wouldn't be a problem f it was an improvement people enjoyed, but it often isn't as much as it is. Night elves are one of the biggest scalps of these sort of changes .. . they nerfed the activity and focus on a lot of alliance races to boost the horde, at first I was fine with it, because the horde genuinely needed more attention and building up after they took the night elves who were huge after wc3 over to the alliance, but 15 years later, it's still the same, you still have the two factions, the horde still focused on, and people like me who waited yes to see a return to the night elves ended up just giving up.

    Despite that, Warcraft also had a l ot of cool and fun stuff coming in too, let's not forget that, butreally I wonder if all the change was necessary , just to have more cool stuff.

    And as someone said above, they'll keep changing stuff. They themselves have said the story only exists to serve the game, not to tie the hands of the developers. Well if the developers don't know the value of consistent story telling .. I mean, it shouldn't surprise them when people don't take their lore seriously at all or just lose interest. Why should I be interested in the latest gimmick Shadowlands, it's going to mean nothing or have no relevance in 2 years anyway. It's not like 6 books will be published with all manner of stories from different groups and people tying in different facets of the world, like each expansion perhaps should have done..but hey.

  15. #15
    Thanks everyone so far. Been sat here reading replies and nodding along in agreement. Shame you can't "like" posts on here to show appreciation. (:

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    The big one that people took issue with is "The Titans are dead." If you played through Argus and then the Antorus raid when you played Legion, you'll know that this is not true any more, and this was almost immediately after Chronicle V1 released.
    Did you pay any attention?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Their physical bodies were destroyed, Norgannon tried to transmit their souls into the Keepers but was unsuccessful, doing nothing more than tipping Ra-den off that they had died causing him to go into a depression and allow a lot of bad things to happen to Azeroth. How is finding out where their souls have been since then a retcon? Because from my understanding of the word, it's not.
    That's not quite what actually happened though. The spell did send a portion of their souls to Azeroth, the parts of their souls which weren't sent were destroyed along with their bodies. The Legion apparently reclaimed the souls of the Pantheon during the invasions, that was one of their primary objectives. The thing is that Chronicle gave no hint that such a thing was even remotely possible, implying very strongly that the Titans were essentially dead, living on only through the keepers. The choice to have these fragments reborn into what seemed to be fully fledged Titans once more with very little effort seemed very out of left field.
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  18. #18
    Elemental Lord matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    They first claimed that chronicles are a series of books which would be the "Ultimate lore bible" and advertised them as that.

    Going into this years blizzcon they stated that the chronicles are written from the view of the titans (however that is possible, but hey Blizz writing for you) and as that are ofc extremly flawed.

    And also NOT the ultimate lore bible anymore.
    Forgive me if this is a dumbass question that I could've easily answered by reading a bit more, but is that 100% fact that Chronicles aren't the "end all be all" lore handbook for all things warcraft? Now it's supposedly some take from the Titans perspective that may or may not be correct? Leaving them open to future possible retcons if they so choose to (and we all know they will and is why they prolly did that change).

    That honestly irritates the shit out of me, maybe more than it should. I was extremely excited when I first heard about the Chronicles project: a lore Bible that would finally explain anything and everything that happened during the warcraft timeline in great depth. Now we can't even have faith in what we are reading because "oh the Titans were wrong about x so we changed it so we can move the story forward for 10.0"

    Fking sigh

    I feel like an extremely disappointed parent towards Blizz lol. All I can do atm is shake my head in disgust

  19. #19
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    That's not quite what actually happened though. The spell did send a portion of their souls to Azeroth, the parts of their souls which weren't sent were destroyed along with their bodies. The Legion apparently reclaimed the souls of the Pantheon during the invasions, that was one of their primary objectives. The thing is that Chronicle gave no hint that such a thing was even remotely possible, implying very strongly that the Titans were essentially dead, living on only through the keepers. The choice to have these fragments reborn into what seemed to be fully fledged Titans once more with very little effort seemed very out of left field.
    It was vague enough to explain them being in tune with the Keepers until Legion and their souls(Titan's) were taken to Argus to break them. That was clearly the intent.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz

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  20. #20
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    A lot is made of the whole recent revelation that "the 'Chronicle' series is from the perspective of the Titans" being a statement that somehow de-canonizes or de-legitimatizes the "Chronicle" series, but they remain the most up-to-date and detailed source of lore thus far. Our journey to the Shadowlands and the existence of beings beyond the Titans' knowledge means that the "Chronicle" series aren't all-encompassing, but then they were never really were - and new lore is going to come out all the time as the game is ongoing, which means the "Chronicle" could never be 100% exhaustive in the first place. It's still a 100% valid and referential piece of work, covering the majority of WoW's lore in its purview.

    People get up in arms over very little, IMO.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

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