Account Wide Essences!

[Ealyssa]

So why are pugs doing heroic EP with rank 1 and 2 essences on alts in less than 2 hours then?

Because they are carried by others with full rank 3 essences...
But please, provide logs of an heroic clear PUG full of only rank 1-2 alts. Until then you're full of shit.

[Doffen]

Because they are carried by others with full rank 3 essences...
But please, provide logs of an heroic clear PUG full of only rank 1-2 alts. Until then you're full of shit.

Wow, some people are just that bad at this game? That you actually believe you need to unlock all slots to do heroic Eternal Palace and then need to have all 3 at rank3? I do actually pug Heroic EP. I do it with my rank1 and rank2 essences on a few alts and did so for some months. I do competitive healing and damage, and quite frequently I am on top. I tried to check the logs, but I am not sure how I'll find the logs with the correct info. I can see rankings, and see people who cleared it without rank3 essences, but when I go to the report I can't see what essences the others are using. There is a Shadow Priest without the first minor even that is winning the meters on Queen Aszhara. He is boosting the rest lol. Skill and gear is more than enough for Heroic EP. Those who think other wise are full of shit.

Maybe you know how to check it on warcraftlogs? I do think you sent me on a fools errand though.

Anyway, you are wrong and I am right since I personally experience this every week. There are so many that doesn't even have second minor unlocked and we still clear EP heroic. I'm gonna leave it at that.

[Ealyssa]

Wow, some people are just that bad at this game?

Please provide proof, until then you're full of shit.

[kamuimac]

Wow, some people are just that bad at this game? That you actually believe you need to unlock all slots to do heroic Eternal Palace and then need to have all 3 at rank3? I do actually pug Heroic EP. I do it with my rank1 and rank2 essences on a few alts and did so for some months. I do competitive healing and damage, and quite frequently I am on top. I tried to check the logs, but I am not sure how I'll find the logs with the correct info. I can see rankings, and see people who cleared it without rank3 essences, but when I go to the report I can't see what essences the others are using. There is a Shadow Priest without the first minor even that is winning the meters on Queen Aszhara. He is boosting the rest lol. Skill and gear is more than enough for Heroic EP. Those who think other wise are full of shit.

Maybe you know how to check it on warcraftlogs? I do think you sent me on a fools errand though.

Anyway, you are wrong and I am right since I personally experience this every week. There are so many that doesn't even have second minor unlocked and we still clear EP heroic. I'm gonna leave it at that.

this has a lot to do with min max approach.

you can see it in many weaker guilds.

people who try to blindly copy hardcore guilds strategy and preparation wise and then blame it on stupid stuff like essences while they raiders barely push 20th percentiles and keep standing in fire.

do i think essences should be account wide ? yes ofc - but its not the end of world when they are not.

in my eyes much bigger problem atm will be with 8.3 the fact that people who want to come back to game will have to do stupid grinds in old 8.2 content if they want to unlock essences on mains.

this alone will make many people to just cba and wait with return untill Shadowlands prepatch.

[rips]

this has a lot to do with min max approach.

you can see it in many weaker guilds.

people who try to blindly copy hardcore guilds strategy and preparation wise and then blame it on stupid stuff like essences while they raiders barely push 20th percentiles and keep standing in fire.

do i think essences should be account wide ? yes ofc - but its not the end of world when they are not.

in my eyes much bigger problem atm will be with 8.3 the fact that people who want to come back to game will have to do stupid grinds in old 8.2 content if they want to unlock essences on mains.

this alone will make many people to just cba and wait with return untill Shadowlands prepatch.

you cannot expect to get everything for free just because you decided not to play anmore. doing the essence stuff is a matter of 1-3 weeks depending on class and nerfs. and you have the Time before the Raid opens.

Doing it on an Alt for the X Time is a different Story

[Doffen]

Please provide proof, until then you're full of shit.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...3#difficulty=4
There are some pages to scroll down, but you'll find many eventually.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...2299&bracket=9

Pretty sure some of those are pugs and most doesn't even have second minor unlocked. Top in that bracket got 1 rank3 and 1 rank2 essence. No second minor. I mean, the proof lies in front of you if you want to see it. Anyway, I know I am right. I tried at least.


- - - Updated - - -

this has a lot to do with min max approach.

you can see it in many weaker guilds.

people who try to blindly copy hardcore guilds strategy and preparation wise and then blame it on stupid stuff like essences while they raiders barely push 20th percentiles and keep standing in fire.

do i think essences should be account wide ? yes ofc - but its not the end of world when they are not.

in my eyes much bigger problem atm will be with 8.3 the fact that people who want to come back to game will have to do stupid grinds in old 8.2 content if they want to unlock essences on mains.

this alone will make many people to just cba and wait with return untill Shadowlands prepatch.

Yeah, just like the poster over here that think you need to have all essences at rank 3 to clear heroic Eternal Palace. I do pity people with this mindset. I mean pugs cleared it the first week, I am pretty sure they didn't have neither the essence nor the slots unlocked then. People can believe what they want, but luckily most people in game(not on forums for some reason) know that having all the essences to do trivial stuff isn't needed.

Wanting and needing is two different things.

[Ealyssa]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...3#difficulty=4

That's a... ranking ? Complete out of subject ?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...2299&bracket=9

ranking again ? Trying to fake link or something ?

You said that full PUG, Pick up group, of alts are clearing with rank 1-2 essence. Which is bullshit. Trying to fake link single individuals means shit. Again, having a few persons undergeared in a 425+ rush group means absolutely nothing to this thread point...
Obviously PUGs are clearing Heroic, I'm doing it with my alts every wednesday. What I'm saying is that PUGs aren't undergeared, at all. You may have here and there a few carry in them, because of friends of leader or whatever, but that's it.

But I'll still happily wait your link of a full raid group of random people undergeared clearing heroic. Until then, well you know...

[Great Destiny Man]

Yeah, just like the poster over here that think you need to have all essences at rank 3 to clear heroic Eternal Palace. I do pity people with this mindset. I mean pugs cleared it the first week, I am pretty sure they didn't have neither the essence nor the slots unlocked then. People can believe what they want, but luckily most people in game(not on forums for some reason) know that having all the essences to do trivial stuff isn't needed.

Wanting and needing is two different things.

Unfortunately there seems to be this odd misconception that unless HC can be easily downed by PuGs that it's tuned to higher requirements.

Guilds were clearing HC Azshara in the first two weeks when people barely had anything over 430 (at best), no 2nd minor slot unlocked and either lacking the essences that had the most impact to their spec or having lower ranks of it. To claim HC is tuned to TF'd gear and R3 essences is utterly absurd.

[Frozenstorm]

I miss when WoW was about logging in, finding groups and playing the game. Now you log-in and have a daily list of "chores" to complete before you can do anything else. It really sucks.

I quit before the essence system was implemented. I grinded all the Reps available at the launch of BFA (to exalted). Here is my list of things preventing me from coming back, and I'm sure many players feel the same way.

1. Azerite gear feels like it has no place now in the game and usually feels confusing/bad when you get a piece
2. More rep grinds to go through
3. Once I seen the Essence system and how it works I was like WOW... even more "Chores" to do. (I canceled my sub after seeing this system) - I like to play ALTs and this was a massive deal breaker. I really don't want to grind all these REPS and even more things to enjoy the game. The game never used to be this bad for daily grinding/chores.
4. Dungeons seem to be pointless to run... Sad seeing as how these used to be the main source of gearing up your char + alts. Mythic + is a lazy way for the Dev's to push harder content. They just need to grow balls and make the content challenging from the get go. Screw the casual babies who want everything handed to them. That is what Normal mode is for and always has been.
5. Everything seems to have shifted to needless and pointless time gated grinds that make you feel like you are not progressing your char at your own pace, but instead progressing at the pace that Blizzard wants EVERYONE to to progress at. This destroys the feeling of playing an MMO. It more like feels like you are always waiting for the next episode of your favorite show to come out but only have re-runs to watch while waiting for the next episode.
6. The community combined with all these New " Systems " make it so all these grinds become a requirement to enjoy the game. All the grinds divide an already volatile community even more. This post is proof of this and it is Blizzards fault for creating the problem in the first place.

I miss the simple system of logging in and having a choice on what to do. And everything you did felt like it was helping you in some way. Now it just feels like there is an overwhelming amount of BS to do, you end up burning out before even being able to most of it. I mean I was logging in, doing Naz'jatar stuff for a week straight and felt "Forced" to keep doing it because I needed Pathfinder Part 2 - Then I unlocked essence and was like fuck this shit. I just couldn't find enough time to run some dungeons or even jump into a LFR to see a raid because of all this other crap i have to do first. It just plain feels bad.

[Doffen]

Unfortunately there seems to be this odd misconception that unless HC can be easily downed by PuGs that it's tuned to higher requirements.

Guilds were clearing HC Azshara in the first two weeks when people barely had anything over 430 (at best), no 2nd minor slot unlocked and either lacking the essences that had the most impact to their spec or having lower ranks of it. To claim HC is tuned to TF'd gear and R3 essences is utterly absurd.

Yeah, if it's easy, then it's fine. If it is hard and you can't kill every boss at first try, blame the game design. I just can't understand that people really think EP heroic is tuned so tightly. It clearly is not. But I know what I see in pugs, so I am done convincing anyone.

I do talk with guildies and friends that want every essence to be account wide, and we disagree about the main point, but everyone is agreeing that we don't need it for Heroic EP, for mythic+ 10-15s and so on. We want it, sure, and I think that's only natural. Making content for alts more trivial is one thing, but needing it? No sir.

[Tradu]

This is one of the issues what Blizz also bring on themself. They let people easly faceroll leveling process and created bunch of entilted players what feel like all those alts should be ready for raiding from day one. Maybe if leveling alts would not be so easy and people would not sit on 50+ max lvl characters we would not have this problem. Good old times back in vannila and tbc where only small minority of players hade 1 max 2 alts leveled up and were used just for gathering materials. Which is exactly what alts should be and no this nonsense of 12+ main character with accwide progression what are all compettive for end game. Get that thing out od mmo game it do not belong here. In proper mmorpg game you are supostu play just 1 charachter and thats it.

Then maybe they should spend some more time making sure that your 1 character is fun to play, and doesn't drastically change with expansions/patches.

[Daedius]

Small reminder. Alts are alts. They are not your second or third main to play. Alts are not supostu touche high mythic keys or mythic raiding. Back in vannila and tbc alts were nothing more than chars to gather herbs and ore. And thats where alts are suspostu be.

Oh be quiet. FF14 has a class changing system on the fly that by bypasses the whole alts tripe having to redo everything just for the sake of it.

That system is great. At this point I would welcome paid class change at this point in WoW with wide open arms...

[Zensunni]

Essences should have been account wide since very beginning.

It's cost them the late expansion. I usually play alts and mess around, as do my guildies and friends, but it's a ghost-town this tier. I promise you that retail participation is in the dumpster, and if you parse out Classic players, that retail subs have plummeted. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the most alt-unfriendly tier in probably the history of the game is a big part of it. Why on Earth they thought it was a good idea is beyond me - this design team is just clueless and out of touch.

[Ragedaug]

in my eyes much bigger problem atm will be with 8.3 the fact that people who want to come back to game will have to do stupid grinds in old 8.2 content if they want to unlock essences on mains.

this alone will make many people to just cba and wait with return untill Shadowlands prepatch.

This is what killed my Alt playing experience since WoD, and why I unsub each Xpac since WoD. There is a nice grind built into the game for everyone's main. If you have one character, it's a good grind, takes a while, but feels good when it's complete. Then when I want to play an alt and think about doing every quest and achievement on each alt to get my garrison up to snuff, or every quest and achievement to unlock my Artifact Weapon on every alt, or every quest and achievement to unlock all the Essence on every alt, I just CBA, then I unsub and wait for the next Xpac.

The game needs long grinds to make it fulfilling to players who don't play alts, then big catch up mechanics on the grinds for alts, for players who enjoy playing alts. It's near impossible to make the game fulfilling to both crowds otherwise.

Considering if every alt has to do the same grind as the main:
If you make the grind quicker, so you don't mind repeating the grind on your alts, players without alts will quickly run out of content.
If you make the grind long enough to get players without alts satisfied, It will be overbearing to try to do it multiple times.

------------------
Edit because I misunderstood: If I'm returning to the game in 8.3, I don't see a problem with doing a solo grind on my main to catch up. I just don't want to do that same grind over and over on every alt.

[Tradu]

The old system (MOUNT/PETS/ACHIEVEMENTS/REPUTATION/...) was BRUTAL for alts and just to call your toons "alts" allready degraded them to Diablo-mules.

Just because blizzard could not resist to make some easement for players clearly not fit to play a normal MMO does not meant the game is now a full fleshed out action-RPG.

I liked the old restricted game a lot more. You could still reroll to another character, but it needed more planing as a simple new name and you lost things you would miss a lot. The current painless FOTM rerolls are not really healthy for the game and it will need some cruel AP/covenant grind in shadowlands to stop this from growing even more.

I just imagine what a blizzard DEV would think about reading all this silly demands from the game. If you give in even a small bit, you might regret it in the future.

Then they'd need to balance the game better, otherwise the top end of DPS players would be even heavier on pure DPS, boomkins, warriors and DHs because anything else is too risky. Healers would basically all have to play paladin and priest, because they're easily the safest bets to be required, and tanks would be Brewmaster. At least with how the game works currently, people can just have alts of those classes to switch to when their main sucks.

[Ragedaug]

Then maybe they should spend some more time making sure that your 1 character is fun to play, and doesn't drastically change with expansions/patches.

That's definitely part of it. So to let you know I agree with you, but also want to add that personally, I get bored with different play styles and enjoy mixing it up. I've enjoyed RPG games where I have one character who can master any/every discipline and their gear dictates their bonus' (melee/range/magic/healing/toughness, etc).

In WoW, where that is forbidden and what you can specialize in is decided before you even play your character, they need to give us ways to readily play different characters with different play styles, when we get bored with our main.