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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    The content that frustrated me the most was honestly being able to make a new character of a different race.
    Out of 10 allied races, only 2 of them were "time gated" by the definition you couldn't unlock them the day they came out. These were dark iron dwarves and mag'har orcs that were released with bfa but required a brand new rep to be grinded for each. Every other allied race was a freebie for someone who is already playing the game, not ignoring major patch features and reps, and not unsubbing for a year and then coming back surprised.

    Being able to play a Nightborne, Void Elf, Zandalari or soon Vulpera immediately on the release after a fairly short questline is a form of "thank you for being subbed during content droughts" from Blizzard. Subs are money. And it's easy to get people to play at expac launches, or even major patch launches, but harder to keep them from unsubbing in between.

    Having people sub back 1 month before 8.3 so they can grind up the rep for Vulpera is obviously bigger profit than having these people skip that sub, come 8.3 and being able to insta pick a Vulpera.

    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    Also, any MMO, F2P or pay, lives or dies by new blood. If they're not bringing in new blood, they're dying. They are going to lose old players, no matter how 'good' or 'bad' the expansions are.
    The problem starts when you do so much to ease it up for new / returning players that you convince your current players it's "stupid" to stay subbed during content droughts so instead of staying subbed all year round they just cherry pick the content-packed periods then leave. So then you have to make it up by stretching content or giving some open or veiled "loyalty rewards", otherwise instead of 12 subs a year from players you're gonna get about 3 at best.

    Since you have to make it easy to catch up on levelling and gearing up, because you rely on stream of new blood joining the mainstream of content and filling up the groups, it's an MMO after all, the only "loyalty rewards" that are safe to be given for long time investment are cosmetics and things that don't impact the long term viability of your main character.

    So yeah, they can nerf levelling, or grinding ap, or obtaining essences, but they don't need to nerf pathfinder or allied race rep. They did nerf legion rep grind for those allied races a bit though.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Because if they arent locked people will endlessly bitch about being "forced" to do endless dailies, islands, etc.
    Just in 8.3 people whined about paragon neck grinding so they time-gated it behind killing N'zoth weekly and moved it to the cloak.

    Basically all time-gating was not part of Blizzard's design but put in to stop the casual-bads from whining and using slurs like "no lifers" and "elitists".

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    Quote Originally Posted by natpick View Post
    i think he did figure it very well in fact and maybe just wanted to share/talk to other people about it,you know like you do on forums.
    Most forums posting any kind of 'dear Blizzard' bullshit is a bannable offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    But that's silly - restricting millions to precent one person with no self control... eh.
    Right, which is why all limitations on guns and alcohol should be removed.

    Driver licenses too. Let anyone drive.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  3. #123
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post

    Right, which is why all limitations on guns and alcohol should be removed.

    Driver licenses too. Let anyone drive.
    This comment is so stupid I'm only going to reply once....

    Playing WoW for so long that it hurts the player only hurts that player. Removing restrictions on the things you mention potentially can hurt *other people*.


    Try to think before you type next time. Not that I'lll read more of your posts.

  4. #124
    It guarantees their product will be played by a larger sum of buyers.

  5. #125
    You're grown adult and don't understand how subscription based game works?

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Uhh what? I can definitely still post on the official forums, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I just chose to post here instead. My bad, next time I want to discuss World of Warcraft I won't come to the WoW section of MMO Champion I guess lol.
    You weren't looking to discuss world of warcraft. You posted a letter addressed to Blizzard, who isn't here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    This comment is so stupid I'm only going to reply once....

    Playing WoW for so long that it hurts the player only hurts that player. Removing restrictions on the things you mention potentially can hurt *other people*.


    Try to think before you type next time. Not that I'lll read more of your posts.
    So you're saying you act like this so often that even your family no longer cares if you die. Nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Do every single wq every day, fully max out zones, do emissaries and assaults.

    Crazy right.
    With a contract on.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  7. #127
    Try growing up some more, Mr. Adult.
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  8. #128
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    There is no evidence that time gates in any way boost MAU's because the great majority of players were going to play the game regardless of time gated grinds or not. As it is, most of these time gated grinds can still be done within a month, so it would be paid for whether it took 2 days or 2 wqeeks. This player false narrative must also stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    This nonsense needs to stop. The game developers do not care one iota about the shareholders and shareholders don't care about game design decisions about a specific game. All shareholders care about is the health of the company as a whole. WOW is not the whole company. Not by a long shot. Also, WOW developers have just as much passion making their games as anyone. You insult theem by accusing them of having no passion.
    Care to provide the hard evidence (not some nebulous, personal, subjective feeling) for the underlined parts? Or is that evidence "just trust me bois"?

    OT: some timegating I think it's necessary, but current WoW has certainly gone overboard imo. A reasonable compromise would be weekly caps instead of daily ones.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2019-12-10 at 07:27 PM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    You weren't looking to discuss world of warcraft. You posted a letter addressed to Blizzard, who isn't here.
    So far all I've done in this thread is talk about World of Warcraft. People keep bringing this up instead of discussing the game/the topic of this thread, why? Should I go somewhere else to discuss World of Warcraft instead without people constantly discussing my age, dating status, WoW forum status, or how I supposedly wrote a letter to Blizzard somewhere?

    Is this the WoW section of MMO Champion, or the "make speculations about OP" section? Am I lost?

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Is this the WoW section of MMO Champion, or the "make speculations about OP" section? Am I lost?
    Just going to guess it is because you defeat your own argument in your first post

    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    You still have so much more for me to do once I've unlocked flying, allied races, etc like making alts, collecting mounts/pets/transmogs and so much else,
    If there is so much more to do then time gates are irrelevant. You can still play the game. You still have a ton do to do in the game by your own words. There isn't much left to discuss. You are choosing to limit your playtime in the game when hitting a reasonable time gate despite arguing that there is so much to do in the game beyond time-gate content. Yet you don't want to do that content and play the game. You just want to play your way and only your way.

    When that attitude is used then it will most often lead to disappointment. Because the player is not the creator of the game. They play the way the creators want.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Just going to guess it is because you defeat your own argument in your first post



    If there is so much more to do then time gates are irrelevant. You can still play the game. You still have a ton do to do in the game by your own words. There isn't much left to discuss. You are choosing to limit your playtime in the game when hitting a reasonable time gate despite arguing that there is so much to do in the game beyond time-gate content. Yet you don't want to do that content and play the game. You just want to play your way and only your way.

    When that attitude is used then it will most often lead to disappointment. Because the player is not the creator of the game. They play the way the creators want.
    Because I have to unlock important things like flying and the races I want to make a character as before I can move on to those other things. But once I've unlocked the race I want to play my character as, and I have flying, I still have plenty of things to do, I won't quit the game if they weren't time gated, I'd just keep playing and do all of those other things I listed. Time gating important things like flying and new races doesn't make me feel like I have more to do or makes me play longer, it just makes me feel like I have to hit those important hurdles before I can actually do all those other fun things and usually just discourages me from wanting to play the game at all because of it. I really doubt Blizzard wants me or other people to get discouraged from playing the game at all by getting burnt out early on trying to unlock flying or new races, I doubt that is their intention.
    Last edited by Flower Milk; 2019-12-10 at 09:50 PM.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Because I have to unlock important things like flying and the races I want to make a character as before I can move on to those other things.
    No. You choose to do that. There is a difference between have to and making the choice to. Flying is not required for anything in the game except maybe Naz'jatar because the terrain is annoying.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No. You choose to do that. There is a difference between have to and making the choice to. Flying is not required for anything in the game except maybe Naz'jatar because the terrain is annoying.
    If I want to make alts, I need to unlock new races and flying first. If I want to collect transmogs, mounts, pets on other classes that are also new characters possibly of new races, I need to unlock new races and flying first. All of those fun activities that I'd love to be doing in the game that have infinite amount of play time potential require I first work towards unlocking new races and flying first, which are behind a time gate. And hitting those time gate walls just to make a new character of a new race is so discouraging that it's hard to keep playing the game just to eventually be able to finally make a new character of a new race to FINALLY have fun collecting transmogs, mounts, pets, etc on said new character.

    It goes like this:
    Unlock flying to > unlock new races easier > finally be able to make the new race I want and level them up > cool, now I can FINALLY start playing the game as I've wanted to this whole time

    It's like 3-4 extra steps just to do things I used to be able to just throw gold at or get for free just by buying a new expansion.
    Last edited by Flower Milk; 2019-12-10 at 09:55 PM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    If I want to make alts, I need to unlock new races and flying first.
    Again you choose to set that requirement for yourself. If you impose your own limits to play of course you are going to find your play limited. Millions of people created alts just fine prior to patch 8.2. Pets are account wide. Transmogs are primarily collected in instances where flying doesn't exist. With the exception of Uldir BfA raids are easy to get to. Besides if they are alts you are likely running LFR since you don't mention "gearing up".

    Blizzard also buffed the rep gains for Legion races in 8.1. You can get them in less then a month of play. Flying is around a month of play. These are not onerous time gates. They can easily make grinding take that long. Besides which I already tell that you are not doing every single world quest each day for Legion and BfA. So you are are already "not grinding" out the rep you say is required for you to play the game.

    Self imposed limits will always limit gameplay. Blizzard can never solve that problem.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    It goes like this:
    Unlock flying to > unlock new races easier > finally be able to make the new race I want and level them up > cool, now I can FINALLY start playing the game as I've wanted to this whole time

    It's like 3-4 extra steps just to do things I used to be able to just throw gold at or get for free just by buying a new expansion.
    You don't need flying, that's just silly. Pretending that flying is a requirement blocked by time gating makes your argument weaker (since it is so false) instead of stronger. The one legitimate point you have is with the allied races. I agree that it is bad that you can't just start with the race you want to play and that is made worse by the time gating to get the rep to do the quests to unlock the race.

    But flying ... please. That's like saying you need to be 8/8M to make it easier to unlock flying.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No. You choose to do that. There is a difference between have to and making the choice to. Flying is not required for anything in the game except maybe Naz'jatar because the terrain is annoying.
    You really are an amazing poster rhorle...you always do insane mental gymnastics in your posts.
    Is "fun" talking to you just to see how incredible you are at gymnastics.

    You are telling FLower Milk is his problem for only enjoying "time gated content".
    Newsflash, every single major content in WoW is timegated.
    The more famous the content is, the more time gated it is.

    Its not Flower Milk's problem and he has a very valid opinion, so stop degrading his opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    You don't need flying, that's just silly. Pretending that flying is a requirement blocked by time gating makes your argument weaker (since it is so false) instead of stronger. The one legitimate point you have is with the allied races. I agree that it is bad that you can't just start with the race you want to play and that is made worse by the time gating to get the rep to do the quests to unlock the race.

    But flying ... please. That's like saying you need to be 8/8M to make it easier to unlock flying.
    Try finding a group to do the World PvP quest in Nazjatar...without flying.

    I 100% guarantee you will feel like shit and/or will be kicked from the group.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Its not Flower Milk's problem and he has a very valid opinion, so stop degrading his opinion.
    Not once have I said they are wrong for feeling the way they do. I can't choose to only play for 15 mins at 6 am on a Monday then blame Blizzard that I can't get everything done or find groups. They are setting their own limits and requirements beyond that of Blizzard then choosing not to do all of the other content in the game that they say they want to do because they haven't met their self imposed requirements.

    Not every single major WoW content is timegated. Heroic and Normal raiding are not time gated. If you want to keep insulting people for mental gymnastics you should stop using hyperbole. Or just stick to the actual facts. Hell flying technically isn't time gated as it is rep based. I can guarentee though that the OP is not doing every world quest they can possibly do each day so time gated vs "Grinding it out" doesn't even apply.

    But you'll overlook those facts to claim mental gymnastics.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2019-12-10 at 10:39 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #138
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    In case it actually isn't obvious, it's because Blizzard is trying to cater to both instant-gratification locust-players (return for big content patches, play for 1-2 weeks, hopefully forget for a month or two to cancel their subs) and players that are still invested enough to play mythic raids or keep running their m+ clears.

    It isn't actually the content itself keeping players occupied (the only things keeping you back is time-, or repgates), because the only time content is allowed to pose some difficulty, is when you've already breezed through it week 1 of a new major update.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2019-12-10 at 10:42 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The biggest challenge of WoW is designing for the many different audiences that play the game.
    Yeah, you're trying to satisfy players who doesn't even enjoy playing RPGs, and thus you're alienating those who do.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I 100% guarantee you will feel like shit and/or will be kicked from the group.
    You'd be wrong. There are plenty of PvP groups that require no flying because it happens between the horde and alliance bases. But that also points out that if a person was serious about getting something or have been playing the game since 8.2 launched then they would have had flying by now. It has almost been 6 months. Of course a person is going to feel bad if they are behind on something. That is the nature of trying to do things 6 months after others started to the same thing.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    So far all I've done in this thread is talk about World of Warcraft. People keep bringing this up instead of discussing the game/the topic of this thread, why? Should I go somewhere else to discuss World of Warcraft instead without people constantly discussing my age, dating status, WoW forum status, or how I supposedly wrote a letter to Blizzard somewhere?

    Is this the WoW section of MMO Champion, or the "make speculations about OP" section? Am I lost?
    YOu aren't talking about WoW. You are complaining that Blizzard doesn't cater the game solely to you.

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